woolybear Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Warning: basically what follows is a stream of consciousness rant. My kids do know how to behave socially. I've seen it. They're nice to their friends, respectful to coaches, polite at their grandparent's dinner table. Why, oh why, does it not happen at home? I can get past the manners not being totally up to par at the table. But I cannot get past their being unkind to one another, or using a snarky tone to each other or dh or me. Why do they think it's okay to treat family members worse than others? I have tried all I know. I am just burnt out on this. So, tonight we were getting into the car. The dc were talking about something and my older ds calls my younger ds a dumbo. Not huge, but in my current burnt out-ness it kind of is. Plus, we have had problems with this the last three days. I specifically said "lets be nice going home." I wasn't quick enough with the reminder because it happened after the dc were together for a total of about 3 minutes. When I said something to ds about this, his reply was, "It was an accident." Ummm...huh? Yes, maybe so, but he needs to control what comes out of his mouth more. And he tends to compound the problem with arguing with me or defending himself instead of a quick, "woops. Sorry." Another huge problem here is both dc not understanding what is wrong with the way they say things sometimes. It truly is unbelievable. The tone...... Anyway. Please give me some insight here. Some new ideas to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 How old are they? I know I have to keep ON Rebecca about not saying things to her sister that she wouldn't say to her friends. It's very frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom4him Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Warning: basically what follows is a stream of consciousness rant. My kids do know how to behave socially. I've seen it. They're nice to their friends, respectful to coaches, polite at their grandparent's dinner table. Why, oh why, does it not happen at home? I can get past the manners not being totally up to par at the table. But I cannot get past their being unkind to one another, or using a snarky tone to each other or dh or me. Why do they think it's okay to treat family members worse than others? I have tried all I know. I am just burnt out on this. So, tonight we were getting into the car. The dc were talking about something and my older ds calls my younger ds a dumbo. Not huge, but in my current burnt out-ness it kind of is. Plus, we have had problems with this the last three days. I specifically said "lets be nice going home." I wasn't quick enough with the reminder because it happened after the dc were together for a total of about 3 minutes. When I said something to ds about this, his reply was, "It was an accident." Ummm...huh? Yes, maybe so, but he needs to control what comes out of his mouth more. And he tends to compound the problem with arguing with me or defending himself instead of a quick, "woops. Sorry." Another huge problem here is both dc not understanding what is wrong with the way they say things sometimes. It truly is unbelievable. The tone...... Anyway. Please give me some insight here. Some new ideas to try. We have a rule at our house. If you are not nice to your brother/sister, mother, father, you obviously should not be around other children. If you can't treat your family nice, the ones that love you and support you through thick and thin, why would I think you are going to be nice to a friend. It depends on what happened as to how long they are unable to play with friends but it has been for several weeks as they will get to where they are about to get to play and then they decide to be mean again.:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I had the exact same day! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 My boys are 11 and 9. It was the 11yo who made the comment yesterday. Part of what really bugged me is not just that it was unkind, but also that he was saying since his brother didn't understand something he was dumb. My older ds has always been much more aware of things and my younger is a bit less aware of the world around him. So, he often seems young for his age. And in regards to knowledge and awareness of life, the difference seems more than 2 1/2 years. However, older ds just treats him like he's his own age, but just very stupid. Grrr........... Not to mention that this is just really a problem that is getting to me this week. We hadn't even gotten into the car yet. As it was close to 9 pm, I didn't want to hang out, I just wanted to get us home. I do understand that that ds is probably tired, but this behaviour happens at lots of other times. I think my big issue with him last night also was that he didn't just immediately back up and apologize, he argued and defended his action. This is typical for him and generally pisses me off more. He thinks I am unfair and punish him more, but my other ds gets this point more. He knows when to say sorry, be sweet, etc. If one has done something wrong, I call him on it and then he turns around and acts beligerent or argumentative with me, it tends to make the whole situation bigger. I guess this is a different issue than what I originally posted about, but it is part of why I was angry last night. When we got home, he continued to say "It was an accident" to which I said "You need to apologize. Both to me and your brother." He sat there and did nothing. I swear this went on and on. We had had an incident the day before to which he also argued. I got fed up and said," You're not going to practice tomorrow." When I woke up, I thought it over. I had felt I had overreacted. I watched him through the day and it had been better, so I said I was going to let him go. So, for him to do this after all that annoyed me even more. I was going to remind them to be nice in the car, but we hadn't even gotten into the car yet. ANyway, last night I kept telling him to apologize and he wouldn't. I went and typed an e-mail to the coach saying he wouldn't be able to make it to next practice, before I hit send I went back in and was very clear. He acted clueless. "I don't know what you want me to do!!" I repeated, "Apologize." "Oh, you never said that." Umm. Yes, I did. Even had a witness which said so. Okay. I'm waiting..........still didn't apologize. Duh. I hit send. So, I'm not really happy with this, but he's not going tomorrow. He finally apologized, but really it shouldn't be this hard. I'm not happy with the behaviour. At all. But if he said sorry immediately it would've been over. As to the general not niceness, they don't even seem to understand when I tell them I don't like the way they said something. I think they don't hear it. They both talk to me sometimes in a tone which is really not okay. Younger ds tends to do this when I have told him something more than once. So, if he doesn't listen the first time, I repeat, then he gets rather rude in the way he says, "oKAY!!!" I'm not sure what to do with that. Don't repeat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupOCoffee Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 :bigear: I am living this life too; I know I am partially to blame, but holy wo, the way my kids talk to each other and me sometimes!!! Just co-miserating here! One thing I have done (and it's mostly with dd) is to send her upstairs to her room if she can't act right/speak right while with the family. She often writes in her journal how unfair it is that she got sent to her room; lately I will remind her that she can rant in her journal all she wants, but she BETTER put in there the REASON, and I give her the words "I've been sent to my room by my mean parents, again. I can't believe they've sent me out of the family room just because I talked to my brother like he was dirt". THIS seems to have had some kind of effect on her, because it forces her to realize that it was her OWN course of action that got her dismissed from being with the rest of the family, not because we are meanie-pants parents who don't want her to have any fun. I have also lately placed a small tape recorder in the coffee table of our family room, so that I may capture on recording, how they sound. Sometimes I *do* think they don't realize how they are speaking (tone of voice), and they surely don't believe ME when I try to tell them. The tape does not lie! Hope we all can find a solution to have happy peaceful (well, most of the time anyway) families! :) ~coffee~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmMusa Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 You're not alone. It is this type of thing that sometimes makes me want to put them in school! I take away a privilege on the spot. (15 min off electronics tomorrow). Also, DH and I are trying to really improve our own tones as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Why do they think it's okay to treat family members worse than others? Because being together a lot tends to fray the nerves a bit. It happens even with friends when they spend more-than-normal amounts of time together. Another huge problem here is both dc not understanding what is wrong with the way they say things sometimes. It truly is unbelievable. The tone...... We struggle with this sometimes, too. Especially with dd17. Sometimes I'll say, "Try again." Sometimes I'll say, "Please speak to your brother/sister like you like him/her." Sometimes I ignore it. I have found the the more I harp on things, the worse they get. I generally ignore snarky speech, unless it's directed at me. Then I SUPER-ignore it, in a pointed fashion. I pointedly go about my business without responding. This always brings the rude little offender to his/her senses (not the 17 year old; she just gets huffy, and I ignore that, too). My honest advice is to realize this is an issue for you and then let it go. When something the kids do bothers me, I tend to hyper-focus on it and it seems to get worse. When I make up my mind to just enjoy the kids and overlook their (many and obnoxious, it sometimes seems) shortcomings, I find that the behavior decreases a lot (I don't think it really does; I think it just fails to bother me as much). Another thing I have not done because my kids hate staged things like that but which I know has worked in other families is to have everyone tell each other, every night, what nice or kind thing was done for them that day. Such as, "I noticed that sister put away my sneakers when I left them out." One of my friends has had a lot of success with that. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsh626 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Lisa Welchel has written a great book that deals with a lot of this type of behavior (which we ALL experience - you're not alone!!) - I believe it's called Creative Correction. She provides several practical suggestions of what to do immediately and long term. Some of the ones that have worked for us involve separating the kids from each other for a whole day - just a day in their own rooms. That will often remind them of how much they really *do* enjoy each other. Also, if they are being rude to each other in public, I will make them hold hands. :) Guess how quickly they are polite to each other then?! Something else I have done (that has worked well for us), is I sit the offender down, and explain that I won't let him/her be rude to MY child. I have found when I take the "possession" away from them (instead of "your brother", "your sister") and remind them of who that person is to ME, it carries a lot of weight. Good luck - it will get better! At least that is what I keep telling myself.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I sit the offender down, and explain that I won't let him/her be rude to MY child. I have done this with dd17 when she is rude to my dh: "You may not speak to MY husband, The Man I Love More Than Anything, like that." Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sometimes dh would call the boys into his office and tell them they need to respect HIS WIFE. Always made an impression. :001_smile: I do agree, however, with the poster who suggested letting some of it go. Some advice I've been given--Don't escalate if you can help it. Realize it's a trigger for you. Some suggest having the kids deal with it themselves a bit more, so you are not always in the middle. Try not to micromanage the verbal exchanges between sibs--the natural consequence of being constantly insulted is to not want to be with the insulter. Refusing to play with the insulter can help. Also, if the one being insulted learns to stand up for himself, it can cut down on the rudeness. Teach your younger to say something like, "Stop calling me names. It makes me feel bad!" and then walk away and refuse to engage. Be his backup when he needs help, esp at the beginning if it's new to him to express his feelings like that. Lastly, you can have a set consequence for that sort of insulting--it prevents you from having to make up consequences on the spot. Post it on the fridge and go over it when you start this new way of handling things. Pick something big at first ("No name calling" is a good place to start as it is more concrete than "tone") and then go from there. Good luck. A peaceful home is worth it. It's hard. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Sometimes, when I'm really fed up, I have the offender actually write a letter of apology to me and the sibling acknowledging that he behaved wrongly, why it was wrong and what he will do to improve the behavior in the future. I've also had the offender do extra jobs for me or do something nice for the sibling, like a read aloud I know that sibling likes. Or, I'll have the offender take over one of the siblings household jobs for the rest of the day. They have to drop everything and do these jobs immediately and if it means they are doing school for a longer period of time, oh well. Same applies to writing the letter of apology. Lately, I've been using our dry erase board in the kitchen to put names on the board and checks near the names for unkind, nasty speech and backtalk. This is so Dh can see I'm not making it up and see how often it happens each day. The idea being he will follow through in some way (I can always live in hope). I remember another poster recently saying her mother would make the siblings sit on the couch and hold hands for a specific length of time. She said that was enough to make them get along for the rest of the day at least. I can't try it here b/c I know it would just lead to more problems or Dc would turn it into a joke. ETA: If they end up having to write, it has to be an in-depth, well reasoned paragraph with proper punctuation and spelling and will need to be edited and improved if I deem necessary. This consequence has the added benefit of teaching reasoning and writing skills. Edited February 29, 2012 by shanvan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 In our house, sibs calling each other names is a HUGE deal. I stress to them that we are safe and valued within our family, and name calling obviously is contrary to feeling safe and valued. If I heard a sib name calling, the child in question would know immediately that I expected an apology to their sib. If the apology was not immediate, then he/she would have an immediate consequence, and the consequence would commence until he/she did appologize. I would not belabor the point or escalate the disagreement, but they all know my expectations and how the drill works. I also expect the other sib to not get insulted by the name. They are to ignore it, make a joke of it, etc. If someone tattles on name calling, then I deal with it on a case-by-case basis depending on circumstances, name called, and children in question. I may ignore it, bring down the hatchet, or do anything in-between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 The main punishment around here is cleaning bathrooms and early bedtime. Plus you have to apologize and sound sincere for the apology. Snarky/ disrespectful voices/ tones and insults aren't tolerated, period. I used to take away TV and VG but they don't use those during the week anymore. I also have tried making them do pushups but they're so pathetic at it, it just turned into a joke without everyone laughing. Putting their nose against the wall and counting to ten is an intermediary punishment (the "warning") before the big punishment of bathrooms and early bedtime. You have to tell them the rules and stick to your guns like it's WWIII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Well, after reading another thread on hear about dc behaviour I think it was a good reality check for me. Puts it in perspective. Wow. Maybe I am getting all bent out of shape over something not so big. Not okay, definitely, but not huge. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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