The dreaded socialization issue has come up again...

[Mama_Rana]

.... with my DH. :(

 

Honestly, my DS [almost 8] has some issues. He goes from being painfully shy [though I honestly think part of that is an act] to being joyfully extroverted to being surlily bossy or defensive when things don't go the way he wants in play.

 

But he's 8. And I don't think being in school all day would help. And DH IS supportive of our academic program and sees how DS is thriving in that area [except penmanship! But that's another post].

 

Partially on the advice of some of you, I recently cancelled our MyGym classes to make more room in our schedule for, yk, schoolwork and field trips and spontaneity. DS is really upset about this and says he'll miss his "friends" in class. These are not close friends; he doesn't even know most of their names [there are 2 or 3 boys in particular that he likes to play with in this class; I think he knows one of their names].

 

DH is worried that we're stunting his social growth by pulling him away from kids he feels a connection with. I have offered DS to let him give these kids our "card" so maybe they could get together, but I honestly don't see their parents contacting us. And I said we can still go to the "open gym" times if our work gets done, but these kids are still in school

 

We still spend every Tuesday afternoon at the homeschool center for classes and playtime, and every other Thursday for book club. Plus there are a couple friends we regularly see 2-3 times a month, and Sunday School 2-3 times a month. And occasionally he plays with the neighbor boy or we just met one of our other neighbors who have a little girl 2 years younger than him.

 

Is that enough? I think it is, but DH worries.

[Sevilla]

I have found that social skills, just like other skills, come effortlessly to some kids and not naturally at all to others. Known any kids who just 'got' math like it was their native language? I do. I also know kids who were more average in math who had to be taught it deliberately or would have missed most of it, and kids who struggle in math who need extra support and tutoring to grasp how it works. At the end of the day they can all do basic math - but some required more work to get there than others.

 

IMO and IME it is the *same scenario* with social skills. Some kids intuitively know how to navigate social situations with skill from a young age - expose them to other people and that's all they need to jump in and make good friends and enjoy play with others. Other kids are more average in their skills and need direct instruction in social skills/norms in order to know how to navigate the social playing field (which is far more complex than something like math due to having to read facial expressions, take the emotional temperature of others, gauge both spoken and unspoken meanings in words, body language, in addition to the actual things being played).

 

I have one child who will likely need little if any instruction, and another who I have given a LOT of social instruction to over the years - and that has made a significant difference for him in knowing how to handle social situations, talk with kids, make friends, etc...

 

I always recommend these books to parents (b/c I often find that if a child is struggling in a specific area it helps to have a roadmap of how to guide them explicitly - it's either going to be parents or peers that socialize kids and as homeschooling parents that burden falls more onto our shoulders):

1. The Unwritten Rules of Friendship - http://www.amazon.com/Unwritten-Rules-Friendship-Strategies-Friends/dp/0316917303/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330436673&sr=1-1

2. Raise Your Child's Social IQ - http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Your-Childs-Social-IQ/dp/0966036689/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

 

(I will come back with amazon links)

[Dmmetler]

I've got a DD who struggles socially as well, and doesn't seem to necessarily make connections in groups, even when she sees the same kids several times a week. What's helped most is arrange 1-1 time with them outside of class. So I try to schedule at least one playdate a week with someone in our homeschool co-op, or in DD's dance class. For example, several of the kids in dance walk right by our house to go home, so it's fairly easy to arrange for one to come to our house, have a snack, play with DD, eat dinner with us, and then for me to take the girls to dance. I've even had a few times when a child has come to my house, done HOMEWORK, while DD read a book or pulled out one of her "fun" workbooks, and then the kids have had dinner, played a bit, and gone to dance-and once I did that a few times, I started having moms requesting playdates when their DC got to topics the parents weren't comfortable teaching-they'll happily let me teach their 8 yr old division :). Or their 12 yr old fractions, for that matter.

 

Doing this has made a major difference in DD's ability to connect with those specific kids in the group setting. It might be that if she were with them 6 hours a day for the group, plus time at lunch/recess, she'd make that close connection at school, but since she's not, I have to make sure she gets the time she needs.

 

The other thing that's helped-and I kind of feel strange about this-is that when the Lego "Friends" sets came out, those became DD's go-to gift for her female friends, many of whom haven't played much with legos and who, when they came over, would ignore DD's elaborate Lego set up which is her pride and joy to go look for the dusty Barbies that DD never plays with unless she has a friend over. After DD started giving her friends these lego sets, suddenly she started having kids who WANTED to come over and play legos with her, and build houses and cars and stores for the little mini-dolls. I almost feel like my kid is inviting others into a cult or something-but it's working.

[NanceXToo]

I don't know anything about your original post on the subject, but if your son is that upset about them being canceled, I would let him have them back. Even more so since your husband is also worried about him missing out on socialization because of you canceling them. It's still fairly easy, at 8, to manage to be more relaxed about your school day (in my opinion, anyway), I know that gets a bit more difficult the older they get.

[*********]

I'm with Nance. If it will make your dh feel better, and your ds wants to continue, I'd go back to the gym clasees.

[Aelwydd]

I've got a DD who struggles socially as well, and doesn't seem to necessarily make connections in groups, even when she sees the same kids several times a week. What's helped most is arrange 1-1 time with them outside of class. So I try to schedule at least one playdate a week with someone in our homeschool co-op, or in DD's dance class. For example, several of the kids in dance walk right by our house to go home, so it's fairly easy to arrange for one to come to our house, have a snack, play with DD, eat dinner with us, and then for me to take the girls to dance. I've even had a few times when a child has come to my house, done HOMEWORK, while DD read a book or pulled out one of her "fun" workbooks, and then the kids have had dinner, played a bit, and gone to dance-and once I did that a few times, I started having moms requesting playdates when their DC got to topics the parents weren't comfortable teaching-they'll happily let me teach their 8 yr old division :). Or their 12 yr old fractions, for that matter.

 

Doing this has made a major difference in DD's ability to connect with those specific kids in the group setting. It might be that if she were with them 6 hours a day for the group, plus time at lunch/recess, she'd make that close connection at school, but since she's not, I have to make sure she gets the time she needs.

 

The other thing that's helped-and I kind of feel strange about this-is that when the Lego "Friends" sets came out, those became DD's go-to gift for her female friends, many of whom haven't played much with legos and who, when they came over, would ignore DD's elaborate Lego set up which is her pride and joy to go look for the dusty Barbies that DD never plays with unless she has a friend over. After DD started giving her friends these lego sets, suddenly she started having kids who WANTED to come over and play legos with her, and build houses and cars and stores for the little mini-dolls. I almost feel like my kid is inviting others into a cult or something-but it's working.

 

Awww! That is so cute!! If we lived close by, my ds would totally join your daughter's Lego cult. He loves Legos. Right now, he's into building Lego vending machines. :D

[nukeswife]

I don't know anything about your original post on the subject, but if your son is that upset about them being canceled, I would let him have them back. Even more so since your husband is also worried about him missing out on socialization because of you canceling them. It's still fairly easy, at 8, to manage to be more relaxed about your school day (in my opinion, anyway), I know that gets a bit more difficult the older they get.

 

:iagree:

We used to belong to a Mygym, but when we moved to VA there wasn't on near us, so we found something similar and my kids really needed that outlet. It isn't just the "Friends" but the activity and being active that they need too.

 

My kids make "Friends" all the time that we would really call aquaintances but to them they are important relationships even if it's only that once a week for an hour.

 

I kept my kids in until they no longer wished to go, which means that now only my 6.5 year old is currently enrolled in weekly classes, the older two only go to the Parent night outs.

 

I know how hard it can be to try to fit in school work around the classes outside the home, heck I had 3 of them at the Gym thing and all their classes were on different days.

 

I guess you have to decide if that "more school work time, field trips and spontaneity" are really worth the trade off of cancelling the gym.

[MomatHWTK]

:iagree:

[lailasmum]

Wasn't the thing with gym sessions that you were really stretched for time and not home much because of their timing? Could you find some other activity for your son that fits into your new schedule rather than bringing back the gym sessions. A late afternoon/early evening youth club or something.

 

We have been looking for ways for my dd to make more friends as all of the other home educated girls in the area her age have moved or gone to school so she is all on her own. We tried a few sport clubs but came to the conclusion they don't really allow the kids to make friends because they are so busy. We want to try a youth club instead but finding it hard to find one.

Edited February 28, 2012 by lailasmum

[Vanna]

.... with my DH. :(

My dh had similar concerns along the way of our homeschooling journey.

 

...Honestly, my DS [almost 8] has some issues. He goes from being painfully shy [though I honestly think part of that is an act] to being joyfully extroverted to being surlily bossy or defensive when things don't go the way he wants in play.

 

But he's 8. And I don't think being in school all day would help. And DH IS supportive of our academic program and sees how DS is thriving in that area [except penmanship! But that's another post].

 

Partially on the advice of some of you, I recently cancelled our MyGym classes to make more room in our schedule for, yk, schoolwork and field trips and spontaneity. DS is really upset about this and says he'll miss his "friends" in class. These are not close friends; he doesn't even know most of their names [there are 2 or 3 boys in particular that he likes to play with in this class; I think he knows one of their names].

 

DH is worried that we're stunting his social growth by pulling him away from kids he feels a connection with. I have offered DS to let him give these kids our "card" so maybe they could get together, but I honestly don't see their parents contacting us. And I said we can still go to the "open gym" times if our work gets done, but these kids are still in school

 

We still spend every Tuesday afternoon at the homeschool center for classes and playtime, and every other Thursday for book club. Plus there are a couple friends we regularly see 2-3 times a month, and Sunday School 2-3 times a month. And occasionally he plays with the neighbor boy or we just met one of our other neighbors who have a little girl 2 years younger than him.

 

Is that enough? I think it is, but DH worries.

I agree with the other posters -- go back to the "gym." :) It'll be worth it to show your hubby that his input matters.

[chepyl]

I remember your pp, don't to back to the gym right now. Finish ot the year with what you have, then change the.schedule and do gym instead of something else. Explain why you dropped them to dh and that you will pick them up when other activities are done. You could wvwn do something completely different, try baseball or soccer for the summer. The ymca sign UPS have already started, so you should think about of now.

[Jan in SC]

I think you should go back to the gym. If you need more time at home, I would drop the extra classes. At eight, a boy needs more physical activities than extra classes, even art ones. I wouldn't discount his feelings about missing the gym. Just because his reasons don't make sense to you, they make sense to him. Now that doesn't mean he should get everything he wants, but at some point you valued this program, as well.

[bnrmom]

Haven't read the replies . . .

 

I am one of those homeschoolers who actually thinks that socialization can be a problem. My 5th grade son has only been in ps for one year (4th) but otherwise homeschooled. We have always done tons of classes and camps. He has neighbor kids to play with. He has friends, playdates, sleepovers. He did Little League for 4 years, he was on the swim team, he does martial arts. He's a very outgoing, social, well adjusted kid. I can't tell you how many times an adult who has known him for awhile, upon finding out he is homeschooled, says, "Oh, I never would have guessed!" (I roll my eyes at the ignorance of this statement, but it is what it is.)

 

However, I have noticed that he does not have the same subtle social problem solving skills that kids who have always been in school have. Whether this is a problem or not varies from kid to kid, in my experience. It is sometimes a problem for my ds - he doesn't have the same read on what to say when; he gets way too riled up about small disagreements or insults; he sometimes doesn't know when he should just patiently wait his turn or barge in and take the ball (he defaults to waiting patiently and then often doesn't get a turn). These are all very subtle, but I notice them, and they have caused him some difficulty and heartache.

 

We may not like the way kids in school are "socialized," but since they are the majority, it is the way the majority of kids operate. All the other activities we've been involved in do not offer the day in, day out, shared experience type situation that school does, and that brings up a different kind of relationship to navigate.

 

Now, maybe this is just who is he is, and nothing would be different had he been in school this whole time. I'll never know. And I don't think this is a good enough to reason to send your kids to school in and of itself. However, I think homeschoolers do themselves a disservice by pretending that there is nothing to the "socialization" argument, because in my experience, it definitely can be an issue.

[Mama_Rana]

Somehow I knew this would happen. Here is my other post about our schedule where pretty much everyone told me to cancel the gym classes because we were just over-committed. I was also told to cut out Latin and change the piano lesson, etc. I have moved the piano lesson, dropped Lego Lab--another social time for DS but which was in the morning of his afternoon Latin class which meant we were out of the house all day--and am trying to drop the gym classes to give us more flexibility.

I don't think it would be fair to drop the toddler's gym class and not elder DS's. You may disagree that the toddler doesn't NEED it the way the elder thinks he does, but they both love their gym time. I hope to still give them gym time in the form of the more flexible free-play, but the commitment of time, money, and commuting that the classes require is overwhelming.

 

*sigh* I've studied and studied the MyGym schedule. There's no flexibility for elder DS [it's this Thursday afternoon/early eve class for him or nothing], and the other times for the toddler just don't work due to other commitments or the their late time [one overlaps his bedtime!]

 

Finding another activity/class for elder DS wouldn't address his concern of leaving this particular group behind.

 

I don't know. I'm really feeling discouraged. :( I mean, not by you all specifically, just I feel like it's all so impossible and overwhelming.

 

Sevilla, thank you for the book recs.

[NanceXToo]

Ah. Well. I can see wanting to find a balance. But if that was his favorite one (and you said he loved it) I might try to give him a choice of skipping something else (maybe even book club) and doing the gym class instead.

 

We do a lot of running around, too, but it doesn't really bother me, I kind of like getting out of the house, and I like that we have time as homeschoolers for the kids to do so many different activities, and I like for them to get to socialize a lot, and I think that their various activities can be as educational as anything else.

 

My daughter has a book club at the library every two Mondays, Girl Scouts every Thursday, guitar lesson every Friday, and Judo every Saturday. Both kids have homeschool bowling league every Friday, as well. Teeball will start soon for my son, and I don't know the schedule for that yet. but at least bowling will end the month after lol.

 

I plan lots of field trips and tours and such through my homeschool group, too, and we are on the go a lot. It's actually one of my favorite parts of homeschooling. And around that we fit in our schooling. And we just do our best to keep up with stuff around the house lol. We all pitch in. And it's not that I don't think schoolwork is important, it's that I think an education comes in many forms and that worksheets and textbooks aren't the end all and be all to an education, especially when you're talking about children who haven't even hit their teens yet (my daughter's 11, your son's only 8). They learn so much being out and about, too, I think. And I DO agree that socializing is important, especially to an 8 year old.

 

Now I know that some feel differently and maybe you do, I don't know. To me if I had a son who LOVED this gym class and it was important to him and my husband felt the same way and he was this upset, to me that would matter more than a book club (which you said was a far drive for you, right?), a latin class (I know I might be in the minority around here but I just don't see why an 8 y/o needs to know latin), whatever. I'd try to get him to each but if I felt that was too much for me or for my younger child etc, then I'd let him choose rather than make him give up the extra-curricular he loved the most, especially if it was causing tension for my husband, too.

 

In the end, though, just do whatever causes the most harmony in your household for everybody concerned!

[brehon]

Well, it's seems to me that you need to decide what your priorities are. The only thing on your schedule that looks non-negotiable, as far as time, is your ds' speech therapy. That and your younger son needing a nap. There really is no iron clad right or wrong answer here.

 

Have you had any success getting your son up earlier? You'd be able to accomplish more in the mornings before your activities. You could also make a family trip to the library on Saturdays.

 

If it's more important to you/your dh/your ds to participate in the gym classes and you choose not to give up or rearrange the other activities, then academics will necessarily take a back seat. Again no right or wrong answer, just consequences for decisions. And, really, nothing is set in stone either.

 

If you want to have your ds play with these boys he really likes outside the gym class, know that you'll need to be proactive about inviting them over. The parents probably won't just call you. Good luck with your decision.

[mom2samlibby]

Is your husband's issue with socialization or homeschooling? I think maybe you need to nail down exactly what his concern is.

 

I remember your original post and even replied to your thread, with the response that you needed to drop something.

 

My kids have been involved in activities like gymnastics and dance and while there are other kids there, it isn't really "social" time. They go, they do their activity, and they leave. There isn't really interaction with other kids.

 

I think since you dropped gym to rearrange your days, I would stick with that until the end of your school year and then reevalute.

 

If your husband is wanting you to find social activities, maybe you should look for a program that would involve more social time with other kids, such as cub scouts or something along those lines. Or setting up your own play dates/activities. Is there a homeschool group in your area that you could find other children to play with?

 

Since you were worried about not getting school done in your last post, I would continue to work on that right now and get in the habit of that and then make changes in the fall.

[bnrmom]

I would have no problem canceling a 2yo's gym time but not very important social gym time for an 8yo. Life's not always fair, and the schedule has to work for the family as a whole. Even though 8yo's gym time might be inconvenient, it seems to serve an important purpose in your overall homeschool environment. 2yo's gym time does not.

[Mama_Rana]

I would have no problem canceling a 2yo's gym time but not very important social gym time for an 8yo. Life's not always fair, and the schedule has to work for the family as a whole. Even though 8yo's gym time might be inconvenient, it seems to serve an important purpose in your overall homeschool environment. 2yo's gym time does not.

 

I guess I'm just the oddball here because this baffles me. :tongue_smilie: My two year old's class is HIS p.e. time. I may not have to report on him and I certainly don't do an academic program for him, but he still needs physical activity and social time.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I have to decide before Thursday eve. I learned today that there is a chance his Latin class may have to be cancelled. [btw, Nancy, I don't necessarily think that he NEEDS Latin, but he LOVES all things Roman and the class is already paid for through May, so I don't want to drop that] For many reasons, I hope that doesn't happen, but if it does, it would certainly change things.

 

Thanks for all your input. I'm mulling.

[nukeswife]

After looking at your original post I think what needs to go is one of the Open gym times. I know what open gym is, but there is no reason you need to do them both especially if you're squeezed for time. Another option which I'm sure will seem crazy to some is SCHOOL ON THE WEEKEND. That's right do academics on Sat and Sun. I know, I know, some will scream "that's our family time" Honestly when your 8 academics isn't going to take your whole day, so do some math and La on the weekends to make up for the times during the week you are out.

 

I've done this many times and my kids are fine with it as long as I keep it to under 3 hours total. Usually it only takes us about 1.5 hours to cover what I want to cover on the weekend.

[bnrmom]

I guess I'm just the oddball here because this baffles me. :tongue_smilie: My two year old's class is HIS p.e. time. I may not have to report on him and I certainly don't do an academic program for him, but he still needs physical activity and social time.

 

Thanks for all your input. I'm mulling.

 

I don't believe that 2yos need social time outside of their family and just being out and about in the world. Any social time my kids got at that age was incidental to MY social time with other moms. Same with physical activity - I have two very active boys, and between parks, the backyard, and running like lunatics through the house, they've always gotten plenty of exercise.

 

I'm not saying gym time is bad, but I wouldn't ever consider it important at that age. My kids were ar least 3 or 4 before we ever did any sort of regular paid activity.

[Ellie]

That's plenty of outside socializing.

 

It's possible that after some time with *less* socializing you'll see some improvements in his behavior.

[inmyopinion]

You may have already addressed this, but is there a co-op near you? It does not fit everyones needs, and does add to your week but if you can find the right one, you can do most things within it. For us, it is one stop shopping. Each of my kids take three classes based on their needs and wants, from PE and Art to Geography, Science and Latin. We stay for clubs in the afternoon for "fun" time. It is all on one day, and near the library so we try to work that in.

[Mama_Rana]

You may have already addressed this, but is there a co-op near you? It does not fit everyones needs, and does add to your week but if you can find the right one, you can do most things within it. For us, it is one stop shopping. Each of my kids take three classes based on their needs and wants, from PE and Art to Geography, Science and Latin. We stay for clubs in the afternoon for "fun" time. It is all on one day, and near the library so we try to work that in.

 

We are members of a homeschool community center. That's where DS7 takes his Latin and piano lessons, and has some lego time if we get there early enough. He wasn't interested in any of their PE options, so that's why we're doing the MyGym [plus MyGym is MUCH closer and have options for both of my children]. The co-ops I know of closer to me are not a good fit for several reasons.

[MomatHWTK]

Perhaps sitting down with DH and discussing the full schedule, options and reasoning behind your choices would help? Have you already done that? :001_huh:

[brehon]

I don't believe that 2yos need social time outside of their family and just being out and about in the world. Any social time my kids got at that age was incidental to MY social time with other moms. Same with physical activity - I have two very active boys, and between parks, the backyard, and running like lunatics through the house, they've always gotten plenty of exercise.

 

I'm not saying gym time is bad, but I wouldn't ever consider it important at that age. My kids were ar least 3 or 4 before we ever did any sort of regular paid activity.

 

 

:iagree: None of my 2 yo olds have ever had extracurricular time for themselves that were not an organic part of an already scheduled activity. I'm sure he likes the gym time; but, you're in a crunch. I'd simply not let a 2 yo's wants dictate my eldest's education time. Based on your original post it sounds like you're having to sacrifice your 8 yo's academics at a time when he really needs to solidify the academic basics before upper elementary and middle school.

 

Again it all comes down to choices. I'm afraid you simply can't do it all without either sacrificing something (and personally an 8 yo's academics is not what I'd give up) or changing something. Your family's priorities may be different. That's fine. Your dh and you need to sit down and start prioritizing... and not just for this year, but further down the line. Then, whatever you decide, do that and feel at peace. Also remember that nothing you decide now is set in stone. You can change as you need/want to.