What is the deal with RFK's son and the maternity ward?

[cindergretta]

Interesting...

 

Money grab? (nurse)

 

Or

 

Inflated ego above the rules? (Kennedy)

 

Guess we can't really know. Hindsight is 20/20 and we can Monday morning QB all day about who should have done what. But we would do the exact same thing if the article were "Kennedy baby snatched from hospital while nurse stood by."

[sewingmama]

Wow -I guess here in Australia they don't worry so much about stolen babies.

 

When I had my first they wanted me to stay for 3 days because I was a new mum and then add on to that the 3 days I had been in labour meant a week in the hospital. I got sick of being in the hospital and since we lived a couple of streets away I had DH come and pick me up and we took the baby for a trip to McDOnalds and then back to our house for a nap and shower and some clean clothes.

 

About 4 hours later I came back to the hospital with the baby and nobody even asked where I had been. When we left we just waved to the nurses at the desk and told them we were taking the baby outside for a walk -they smiled and waved and said "See you later".

 

And I carried the baby in my arms the whole time.

[Mrs Mungo]

The hospital has rules for a reason. If you don't want to follow them, then check out of the hospital and do whatever you want.

[JessicaLady]

I have to say I am extremely disappointed that some think HIS behavior and violence towards these nurses was justified. They were following hospital policy and just basic safety standards for a newborn as well. These nurse did their jobs and they did it well. It's a shame the hospital isn't as strong as these two individuals to stand up and support them. Nursing is not a joke profession where we treat everyone differently based on their last name or income status. That stuff doesn't sway us. We follow rules, provide care and do what's best for you (even when you don't know what that is). These nurses could have very easily lost their jobs and/or their license had they allowed a parent (ANY parent) to leave in this situation.

 

When you're a nurse you have the ultimate duty of providing safety for your patient. Those policies are in place not to be an annoyance to the parents but to make sure babies are secure and also come to no harm.

 

This story could have ended very differently if HE had followed the rules. The nurses broke none.

[Virg]

With mine we could take them off the floor as long as you notified the nurse so she could check who you were and then would deactivate bracelet. They did this when my kids were older in the hospital also. I didn't really have to get permission to go to the playroom or classroom more just notify them.

[BamaTanya]

The hospital has rules for a reason. If you don't want to follow them, then check out of the hospital and do whatever you want.

 

I agree. They aren't asking you to do something beyond your ability. They're trying to keep your baby and all the other newborns safe.

 

I try to cooperate with the people I've entrusted with our medical care. It's not unreasonable to monitor the whereabouts of newborns. I'd feel unsafe if they didn't.

[chepyl]

The hospital has rules for a reason. If you don't want to follow them, then check out of the hospital and do whatever you want.

 

:iagree:

 

Did I like the giant ankles on my DD, no. Was I appreciative of the security. Honestly, with DD I had a c-section and no desire to leave my bed. With DD, I just wanted to lay in bed and snuggle my baby. DH was exhausted (checked in at 11pm and baby born at 6 am....he slept then went to find lunch and then took care of us, In the room. I just don't get the desire to leave anyway. Of you are ready, just check out. While there, abide hy the rules.

[Joker]

I was thankful for those rules when I had my second dd. I had to have surgery after and dh had to go home to stay with older dd. I couldn't keep our newborn with me because I felt so drugged. I'm glad people, even if they were parents, couldn't just walk out the door with a baby anytime they felt the need. It gave me a sense of security about having to be away from her that first night.

 

He should have taken the baby right back. He was stupid but I also think the nurses' lawsuit is stupid.

[DianeW88]

Who is RFK?

 

:svengo: I'm sorry, I couldn't get past this. :blink: Does this mean I'm...*gasp*...OLD???? :scared:

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ErinE]

I have to say I am extremely disappointed that some think HIS behavior and violence towards these nurses was justified. They were following hospital policy and just basic safety standards for a newborn as well. These nurse did their jobs and they did it well. It's a shame the hospital isn't as strong as these two individuals to stand up and support them. Nursing is not a joke profession where we treat everyone differently based on their last name or income status. That stuff doesn't sway us. We follow rules, provide care and do what's best for you (even when you don't know what that is). These nurses could have very easily lost their jobs and/or their license had they allowed a parent (ANY parent) to leave in this situation.

 

When you're a nurse you have the ultimate duty of providing safety for your patient. Those policies are in place not to be an annoyance to the parents but to make sure babies are secure and also come to no harm.

 

This story could have ended very differently if HE had followed the rules. The nurses broke none.

 

I completely agree with you. The outcome would have been different had he followed the rules. Both times I had a c-section, it was made very clear my child could not be out of my room for safety reasons. Had the nurses allowed him off the floor (because he was a son of RFK), they would have been reprimanded.

 

Which brings me to the ER doctor. Why hasn't the hospital disciplined him for his statements escalating the situation? From my understanding, there were and are very clear policies in place for newborns and his comments have reflected badly on the nurses, when the women were only doing their jobs.

[AuntieM]

DH and I were just discussing this and came to the same paparazzi conclusion. This man's actions were illogical at best.

 

I'd like to say this as respectfully as possible - some of you are being pretty hard on those nurses. In have had 3 hospital births and in each I was greatly appreciative of both the care given by the attentive nursing staff and for the peace of mind provided by a security system to protect against infant abduction. The Kennedys could have had a home birth attended by a concierge doc. But they chose a hospital birth. When in Rome...

 

I've had two out of hospital births because I hate hospital rules as much as the next person. However, I worked mom/baby floors for years as a nurse. Some hospitals have 40+ postpartum rooms. There is no way for a nurse to even lay eyes (much less remember as someone runs down the hall) on every patient and their family members.

 

Would you like it to be acceptable to the hospital to allow people to run down the hallway with your newborn in their arms? How would you feel if it was your baby snatched and the hospital just said "sorry, no one liked it when we tried to make infant security rules"?

 

There are also tons of domestic disputes going on these days with newborn infants where mothers worry about their babies being taken from the hospital by abusive husbands/boyfriends. There are also lots of crazies out there that circulate maternity wards scoping out exists, nurseries, etc.

 

It's like homeschooling... it's fine if I want to let my kids talk out whenever they have a question, get up to use the bathroom at will, get snacks all the time, etc. But if they go to school, they have to follow the rules for a classroom to function. You can't have 30 kids talking out of turn.

 

If they wanted to leave the hospital, they needed to inform someone they were leaving AMA. You don't even have to sign the papers. But if you are wanting to walk out with a newborn, you better let someone know what you are doing.

 

Even if they knew who the father was, did they know for sure it was HIS baby? This stuff has to be verified. Or it puts everyone at risk.

 

Okay, dh and I just read the story and laughed ourselves silly!

 

Seriously, the mother's statement, "He was just taking our son out for fresh air!", just about made me spit coffee all over the screen. It was Jan.7th in NEW YORK! What was it, 22 degrees??? Fresh Air! Really, this is NEW YORK CITY....outside in 20 degree weather was better than the air filtration system of the hospital, O2 all over the place, and non-smoking environment...yep, let's exchange that for a million car fumes! Wow, just wow!

 

Dh said if his concern was that the air quality of the hospital was so low that taking his newborn out for a walk in that weather was preferable, he should have just asked for an O2 mask!

 

Of course, I think that what he was actually doing and will not likely admit to was sneaking baby down to the lobby for photographers that had no hope of making it past hospital security. Kennedy ego, Kennedy baby, get the first pics...Jan. 7th - slow day for the newsrooms so hey, let's get dufus to give us first photo op and dufus falls for it.

 

But, that's my interpretation.

 

So, did he bring a snowsuit for his child? :glare:

 

Faith

Edited February 27, 2012 by AuntieM

[snickelfritz]

:svengo: I'm sorry, I couldn't get past this. :blink: Does this mean I'm...*gasp*...OLD???? :scared:

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

LOL

 

I was searching my brain for an actor that went by RFK. I DID know who he was, but I don't automatically think of him by initials like I do JFK.

[Catherine]

It's because of kidnapping (more common than you realize-newborns are harder to identify and recognize than older children or adults) and getting babies mixed up.

[JVA]

There is a steep price to being named Bush and Kennedy or whatnot and that includes random people trying to scam you.

 

 

There is also a multi-generation Kennedy mindset that the rules don't apply to them. How hard would it be to check out with the nurses' station? Their arrogance often lands them in trouble- or dead, like his brother, Michael, from a ski accident. I frankly don't have much sympathy for this guy, however, it also looks like the nurse(s) over-reacted. :glare: Bad, all around.

[Cinder]

:svengo: I'm sorry, I couldn't get past this. :blink: Does this mean I'm...*gasp*...OLD???? :scared:

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Diane, you'll appreciate this story. When we first moved here we visited a church. After service a young couple came over to talk to us. Then another couple came over--older than the young couple, slightly younger than dh and I. The man reached out and as I shook his hand he said, "I'm Gerald Ford." I paused and said, "Really?!?" He just laughed; that really was his name. The young couple looked bemused. The young wife smiled and said, "Is that someone famous?" :blink: Oy! He was even still alive at the time! :svengo:

[Mrs Mungo]

Diane, you'll appreciate this story. When we first moved here we visited a church. After service a young couple came over to talk to us. Then another couple came over--older than the young couple, slightly younger than dh and I. The man reached out and as I shook his hand he said, "I'm Gerald Ford." I paused and said, "Really?!?" He just laughed; that really was his name. The young couple looked bemused. The young wife smiled and said, "Is that someone famous?" :blink: Oy! He was even still alive at the time! :svengo:

 

LOL! And people quiz our kids!?

 

When I was in college working retail, I once took a check from a woman named Medea. :001_huh:

[jackson'smama]

I've had two out of hospital births because I hate hospital rules as much as the next person. However, I worked mom/baby floors for years as a nurse. Some hospitals have 40+ postpartum rooms. There is no way for a nurse to even lay eyes (much less remember as someone runs down the hall) on every patient and their family members.

 

Would you like it to be acceptable to the hospital to allow people to run down the hallway with your newborn in their arms? How would you feel if it was your baby snatched and the hospital just said "sorry, no one liked it when we tried to make infant security rules"?

 

There are also tons of domestic disputes going on these days with newborn infants where mothers worry about their babies being taken from the hospital by abusive husbands/boyfriends. There are also lots of crazies out there that circulate maternity wards scoping out exists, nurseries, etc.

 

It's like homeschooling... it's fine if I want to let my kids talk out whenever they have a question, get up to use the bathroom at will, get snacks all the time, etc. But if they go to school, they have to follow the rules for a classroom to function. You can't have 30 kids talking out of turn.

 

If they wanted to leave the hospital, they needed to inform someone they were leaving AMA. You don't even have to sign the papers. But if you are wanting to walk out with a newborn, you better let someone know what you are doing.

 

Even if they knew who the father was, did they know for sure it was HIS baby? This stuff has to be verified. Or it puts everyone at risk.

:iagree:

as a postpartum/nursery rn i know we have rules and they must be followed by everyone. if you start playing favorites saying "well, we KNOW it can't be a kidnapping because he looks nice, he's a ___ (insert whatever last name you wish), or they seem really happy" then you can seriously miss an infant abduction. our unit isn't huge, but there is no way i'd recognize the father of a baby i was not caring for, so if i'm sitting near the main desk and see a dad walking out with a baby, you'd better believe i'd stop him. heck, we are supposed to stop people carrying large bags!!!

 

you really can't just "call security" and have them address it without having it be a serious lockdown. otherwise, how would you know security could reach the person in time in the event it was deemed security was actually needed? but even if *I* thought that was an appropriate response, i would be going against policy and i'm sure my job would be gone. we call the code even if there is the slightest possibility it could be an abduction because we are to err on the side of caution.

 

i can't imagine this infant didn't have a security tag on anyway - so even if the nurses ignored him the whole abduction code process would have started on it's own and he'd have gotten nowhere.

 

yes, your baby is "yours", not "ours", but we have a responsibility to each patient - adult and newborn - to keep them safe. i don't have time to determine if you are ok to walk in the hallway carrying your infant in arms but the mom or dad down the hall is not (and then deal with the litany of complaining that will ensue because i've determined you can't take your baby to the cafeteria, but Mrs. so-and-so can - that's absurd). i'm helping someone breastfeed. i'm dealing with a postpartum hemorrhage. the rules are there for safety and they are broad, yes, but it really has to be. and if it were your infant carried out by a stranger who *looked* like a nice man or a nice woman, imagine how you'd feel.

[Rivka]

I hear so many saying "rules are rules" but don't a parent's rights override a company's rules? Like I said earlier they are rules, not laws. yes, they have to tell him to stop. But he doesn't have to listen to them. He has no legal obligation to follow their rules. It is his kid, and he can leave if he wants to.

 

No.

 

As a parent, you don't have the right to give your kid some chocolate chip cookies right before they're anesthetized for surgery. You don't have the right to visit your kid on the cancer ward when you have the flu. You don't have the right to supplement your hospitalized child's medications with some things you ordered from an internet pharmacy.

 

You do have the right to sign your child out AMA (against medical advice), which means waiting around to sign hospital paperwork - but you don't then have the right to bring the kid back.

 

Similarly, on an airplane, you don't have the right to let your kid run up and down the aisle during takeoff. You don't have the right to move up to first class because you think your kid would be more comfortable there. You don't have the right to order a beer for your 16-year-old because he's nervous flying and you don't think the amount of alcohol is enough to harm him.

 

This "my kid, my rules, and the hell with anyone else's rules" attitude is completely baffling to me.

[MariannNOVA]

No.

 

As a parent, you don't have the right to give your kid some chocolate chip cookies right before they're anesthetized for surgery. You don't have the right to visit your kid on the cancer ward when you have the flu. You don't have the right to supplement your hospitalized child's medications with some things you ordered from an internet pharmacy.

 

You do have the right to sign your child out AMA (against medical advice), which means waiting around to sign hospital paperwork - but you don't then have the right to bring the kid back.

 

Similarly, on an airplane, you don't have the right to let your kid run up and down the aisle during takeoff. You don't have the right to move up to first class because you think your kid would be more comfortable there. You don't have the right to order a beer for your 16-year-old because he's nervous flying and you don't think the amount of alcohol is enough to harm him.

 

This "my kid, my rules, and the hell with anyone else's rules" attitude is completely baffling to me.[/QUOTE]

 

Very well put. In red, I have to wonder how much THAT attitude and method of parenting (or method of not-parenting, if you will) contributes to horrors such as the Ohio school shooting (another thread).

[Jean in Newcastle]

No.

 

As a parent, you don't have the right to give your kid some chocolate chip cookies right before they're anesthetized for surgery. You don't have the right to visit your kid on the cancer ward when you have the flu. You don't have the right to supplement your hospitalized child's medications with some things you ordered from an internet pharmacy.

 

You do have the right to sign your child out AMA (against medical advice), which means waiting around to sign hospital paperwork - but you don't then have the right to bring the kid back.

 

Similarly, on an airplane, you don't have the right to let your kid run up and down the aisle during takeoff. You don't have the right to move up to first class because you think your kid would be more comfortable there. You don't have the right to order a beer for your 16-year-old because he's nervous flying and you don't think the amount of alcohol is enough to harm him.

 

This "my kid, my rules, and the hell with anyone else's rules" attitude is completely baffling to me.

 

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

[DianeW88]

Diane, you'll appreciate this story. When we first moved here we visited a church. After service a young couple came over to talk to us. Then another couple came over--older than the young couple, slightly younger than dh and I. The man reached out and as I shook his hand he said, "I'm Gerald Ford." I paused and said, "Really?!?" He just laughed; that really was his name. The young couple looked bemused. The young wife smiled and said, "Is that someone famous?" :blink: Oy! He was even still alive at the time! :svengo:

 

Wow. My husband had a waiter the other day who was in his mid-twenties or so. His name was Errol Flynn. My dh made a comment and he acknowledged that his parents, did in fact, name him after *that* Errol Flynn (is there another one? :lol:). So dh asks if he gets a lot of comments on it. His response...."Only from old people." :blink: My dh is 52, and he didn't really think he was that old. It was an enlightening moment for him. :lol::lol::lol:

[Mrs Mungo]

No.

 

As a parent, you don't have the right to give your kid some chocolate chip cookies right before they're anesthetized for surgery. You don't have the right to visit your kid on the cancer ward when you have the flu. You don't have the right to supplement your hospitalized child's medications with some things you ordered from an internet pharmacy.

 

You do have the right to sign your child out AMA (against medical advice), which means waiting around to sign hospital paperwork - but you don't then have the right to bring the kid back.

 

Similarly, on an airplane, you don't have the right to let your kid run up and down the aisle during takeoff. You don't have the right to move up to first class because you think your kid would be more comfortable there. You don't have the right to order a beer for your 16-year-old because he's nervous flying and you don't think the amount of alcohol is enough to harm him.

 

This "my kid, my rules, and the hell with anyone else's rules" attitude is completely baffling to me.

 

I agree. And this extends to a "I do what I want, the rules don't apply to ME" attitude among people at large. Then, people are upset when there are consequences. :confused:

[catz]

This "my kid, my rules, and the hell with anyone else's rules" attitude is completely baffling to me.

 

:iagree: You're free not to use a particular business if you don't like their rules. Reading about this and him a little more, RFK seems to have some issue with his (overly inflated) ego.

[brehon]

No.

 

As a parent, you don't have the right to give your kid some chocolate chip cookies right before they're anesthetized for surgery. You don't have the right to visit your kid on the cancer ward when you have the flu. You don't have the right to supplement your hospitalized child's medications with some things you ordered from an internet pharmacy.

 

You do have the right to sign your child out AMA (against medical advice), which means waiting around to sign hospital paperwork - but you don't then have the right to bring the kid back.

 

The only thing I would change here is that, at least in my state, you do have the right to bring yourself/your sick kid back for treatment to a hospital (assuming you haven't been banned from the hospital); BUT, you must then abide by the hospital's rules. If you choose to keep up the yo-yo effect of signing out AMA and re-checking in, you may find that the consequence is banning from that hospital (or, at least, that ward).

 

Similarly, on an airplane, you don't have the right to let your kid run up and down the aisle during takeoff. You don't have the right to move up to first class because you think your kid would be more comfortable there. You don't have the right to order a beer for your 16-year-old because he's nervous flying and you don't think the amount of alcohol is enough to harm him.

 

This "my kid, my rules, and the hell with anyone else's rules" attitude is completely baffling to me.

 

Otherwise, I :iagree: 100%.

[Abigail4476]

I completely understand the hospital's stance on this one. There are a zillion good reasons to keep parents from trotting around the hospital with newborns unless they've followed procedure. And I really can't think of any good reasons for DK to be taking his newborn out for "fresh air" in that weather, NOR a good reason for him to get physical with the nurse while holding his infant. :001_huh:

 

He should be fined, be forced to reimburse all medical expenses incurred for injuring the nurses, and reimburse the hospital for costs relating to this debacle.

 

If he had his head screwed on straight, DK might understand that the nurses were (possibly) being extra-vigilant with a Kennedy-baby on the floor. The chances that some crazy person might want to kidnap a Kennedy are probably pretty high. They were doing their jobs. He acted like an idiot.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Abigail4476
Wrong initials....

[Nakia]

Mother baby nurse here...

 

I don't care if Jesus is the kid's dad; he doesn't get to carry him in the hall, go on the elevator, or down the stairs. He gets to push him in the bassinet, on the unit, until discharge at which time baby rides in his carseat down to the car. No exceptions. If the parents want to take the baby for a "walk" they can sign AMA papers and walk right on down to the car. And then they'll have DSS on their doorstep the next day.

 

If some jack@ss kicked me and/or twisted my wrist, he would be sued. No exceptions.

 

The number one priority is the baby's safety, not dad's feelings, wants, desires. I'll get flamed for that, no doubt. Sorry, but it's true.

 

There are reasons for these rules. Babies are stolen from hospitals every single day. My hospital no longer allow babies to sleep in the bed with mom or dad. Does everyone like that? Heck no. Did I sleep with my babies? Yes, I did. But I help code the baby we found dead in the bed with mom last year, so I'm okay with that rule too.

[Shellydon]

Mother baby nurse here...

 

I don't care if Jesus is the kid's dad; he doesn't get to carry him in the hall, go on the elevator, or down the stairs. He gets to push him in the bassinet, on the unit, until discharge at which time baby rides in his carseat down to the car. No exceptions. If the parents want to take the baby for a "walk" they can sign AMA papers and walk right on down to the car. And then they'll have DSS on their doorstep the next day.

 

If some jack@ss kicked me and/or twisted my wrist, he would be sued. No exceptions.

 

The number one priority is the baby's safety, not dad's feelings, wants, desires. I'll get flamed for that, no doubt. Sorry, but it's true.

 

There are reasons for these rules. Babies are stolen from hospitals every single day. My hospital no longer allow babies to sleep in the bed with mom or dad. Does everyone like that? Heck no. Did I sleep with my babies? Yes, I did. But I help code the baby we found dead in the bed with mom last year, so I'm okay with that rule too.

 

How do they stop mom from sleeping with a baby? I held all of mine all night at the hospital, I can't imagine how they would stop a mom from holding the baby.

[Abigail4476]

How do they stop mom from sleeping with a baby? I held all of mine all night at the hospital, I can't imagine how they would stop a mom from holding the baby.

 

The last two hospitals in which I've given birth had a similar rule. I was never stopped from holding my babies, but they wanted them in a bassinet and/or in the nursery when I was sleeping. They would bring them back to me anytime I needed to nurse or wanted to hold them. If my husband was in the room, he would hold them while I was sleeping, so the baby was rarely out of the room anyway.

 

My first daughter was allowed to room in with us, and my husband slept with her on his chest on a cot next to my bed the first night in the hospital. :001_smile:

[Nakia]

How do they stop mom from sleeping with a baby? I held all of mine all night at the hospital, I can't imagine how they would stop a mom from holding the baby.

 

The last two hospitals in which I've given birth had a similar rule. I was never stopped from holding my babies, but they wanted them in a bassinet and/or in the nursery when I was sleeping. They would bring them back to me anytime I needed to nurse or wanted to hold them. If my husband was in the room, he would hold them while I was sleeping, so the baby was rarely out of the room anyway.

 

My first daughter was allowed to room in with us, and my husband slept with her on his chest on a cot next to my bed the first night in the hospital. :001_smile:

 

Sorry, I typed fast and wasn't clear. Baby can sleep in mom's or dad's arms, but cannot be in bed with mom or dad if the parent is sleeping. That's what I meant to type.

[Shellydon]

Sorry, I typed fast and wasn't clear. Baby can sleep in mom's or dad's arms, but cannot be in bed with mom or dad if the parent is sleeping. That's what I meant to type.

 

 

I guess I am wondering how the staff would know. At the hospital where I had my last two, babies roomed in. At night, I was to call when baby woke to nurse and they would come in and take my vitals then leave. How would they ever know that baby was sleeping in bed with me?

[Nakia]

I guess I am wondering how the staff would know. At the hospital where I had my last two, babies roomed in. At night, I was to call when baby woke to nurse and they would come in and take my vitals then leave. How would they ever know that baby was sleeping in bed with me?

 

Babies do room in. We do rounds at least every 2 hours. That doesn't mean we go in and wake everyone, but we do go in and check on everyone.

[Momof3littles]

Mother baby nurse here...

 

I don't care if Jesus is the kid's dad; he doesn't get to carry him in the hall, go on the elevator, or down the stairs. He gets to push him in the bassinet, on the unit, until discharge at which time baby rides in his carseat down to the car. No exceptions. If the parents want to take the baby for a "walk" they can sign AMA papers and walk right on down to the car. And then they'll have DSS on their doorstep the next day.

 

If some jack@ss kicked me and/or twisted my wrist, he would be sued. No exceptions.

 

The number one priority is the baby's safety, not dad's feelings, wants, desires. I'll get flamed for that, no doubt. Sorry, but it's true.

 

There are reasons for these rules. Babies are stolen from hospitals every single day. My hospital no longer allow babies to sleep in the bed with mom or dad. Does everyone like that? Heck no. Did I sleep with my babies? Yes, I did. But I help code the baby we found dead in the bed with mom last year, so I'm okay with that rule too.

I don't think CPS is going to do much in a case where a parent signs out AMA if there aren't medical concerns requiring the baby to stay. I don't think he handled the situation appropriately at all, and I absolutely understand the need to sign out AMA.

 

However, I chose a freestanding birth center for one birth and was home 4 hours later. If I can do that, how is leaving a hospital early (assuming baby has been checked over, is medically stable, etc) an issue for CPS involvement? My third birth was a HB. Baby was seen and checked by CNM, and then at 2 days was seen privately at our family practice office.

 

Checking out AMA in and of itself does not mean neglect or abuse. I can't imagine CPS would pursue it any further. If someone calls it in, they would follow up, but I can't imagine they wouldn't immediately close the case barring other issues. If that is not the case, wouldn't most moms choosing a homebirth, asking for early discharge (I have friends who use hospital CNMs and the CNM is okay with early discharge for a stable mom and baby), or using a freestanding birth center encounter the same issue?

 

I absolutely think he handled it incorrectly and understand hospital policies, but the threat of CPS over signing out AMA (assuming baby had been checked and was stable, no extenuating circumstances) is ridiculous.

 

eta: I also coslept with baby in arms the whole time we roomed in with my first birth, which was a cnm attended hospital birth.

[Mrs Mungo]

I absolutely think he handled it incorrectly and understand hospital policies, but the threat of CPS over signing out AMA (assuming baby had been checked and was stable, no extenuating circumstances) is ridiculous.

 

I agree. So is calling CPS on parents who have a homebirth and go in to the pediatrician for the baby to be checked. But, it happens. People should be aware of the possibility of over-zealous medical personnel reacting in such a manner.

[LucyStoner]

what he did to the nurse was assault and battery and I would insist on charges being file. this has nothing to do with his "name". If he was joe average on the street, he'd have been arrested with charges filed.

 

I said that criminal charges made sense (and have been filed). OTOH, Personal injury lawyers do not seem close to warranted in this situation yet the nurses have them, most likely on a contingency. My bet is that if the person in question was not from a very wealthy political family, the nurses would not have even been able to find a personal injury lawyer to take the case on contingency.

[Shellydon]

Babies do room in. We do rounds at least every 2 hours. That doesn't mean we go in and wake everyone, but we do go in and check on everyone.

 

 

So how would you enforce the baby sleeping with mom if mom refused to move baby. I personally would fight that. The rest of the rules I 100% agree with, but not that one. I would probably check out AMA if it became an issue. Actually, usually stayed less than 24 hours anyway (less than 12 hours once), so it probably wouldn't even have to be AMA.

[Momof3littles]

I agree. So is calling CPS on parents who have a homebirth and go in to the pediatrician for the baby to be checked. But, it happens. People should be aware of the possibility of over-zealous medical personnel reacting in such a manner.

I agree they may get involved, but barring other circumstances, I think in the overwhelming majority of cases, the case would be immediately closed.

[ktgrok]

Again, i understand the rules. I do. I even agree with them. But you can't reach out to take someone's kid from them and not expect an instinctual reaction. I'm not saying the nurses were wrong to try to stop him. I'm saying they were wrong to make it a physical interaction by trying to bar the way physically and grab the baby. And again, I agree the rules have a purpose. But I do not give up rights as a parent when I walk into a building. I just don't. Should he have told someone what he was doing? Yes, of course. But legally at the end of the day it is his kid and he can take it where ever the heck he wants to. There is a difference between rules of a company and the laws of the country.

[LucyStoner]

 

If some jack@ss kicked me and/or twisted my wrist, he would be sued. No exceptions.

 

 

 

But you have no damages to claim unless you are injured. Should you press criminal charges? Sure. My husband also works in a hospital and at times parents get obnoxious, sometimes pushing, grabbing etc. Someone once spat at him. It sucks, but it is not grounds to sue someone.

[Nakia]

I don't think CPS is going to do much in a case where a parent signs out AMA if there aren't medical concerns requiring the baby to stay. I don't think he handled the situation appropriately at all, and I absolutely understand the need to sign out AMA.

 

However, I chose a freestanding birth center for one birth and was home 4 hours later. If I can do that, how is leaving a hospital early (assuming baby has been checked over, is medically stable, etc) an issue for CPS involvement? My third birth was a HB. Baby was seen and checked by CNM, and then at 2 days was seen privately at our family practice office.

 

Checking out AMA in and of itself does not mean neglect or abuse. I can't imagine CPS would pursue it any further. If someone calls it in, they would follow up, but I can't imagine they wouldn't immediately close the case barring other issues. If that is not the case, wouldn't most moms choosing a homebirth, asking for early discharge (I have friends who use hospital CNMs and the CNM is okay with early discharge for a stable mom and baby), or using a freestanding birth center encounter the same issue?

 

I absolutely think he handled it incorrectly and understand hospital policies, but the threat of CPS over signing out AMA (assuming baby had been checked and was stable, no extenuating circumstances) is ridiculous.

 

eta: I also coslept with baby in arms the whole time we roomed in with my first birth, which was a cnm attended hospital birth.

 

It's not my rule (the DSS rule), and it's not something I 100% agree with. BUT it's the hospital's policy.

 

So how would you enforce the baby sleeping with mom if mom refused to move baby. I personally would fight that. The rest of the rules I 100% agree with, but not that one. I would probably check out AMA if it became an issue. Actually, usually stayed less than 24 hours anyway (less than 12 hours once), so it probably wouldn't even have to be AMA.

 

We make parents aware of the policy when they check in. So far, after about 8 months of the enforcing the policy, we haven't had any parents fight us. They understand it's for the baby's safety. I honestly don't know what would happen if the parents insisted on sleeping with the baby, but I suspect our manager and the pediatrician would get involved.

 

Again, I slept with my babies, and I would not like it one bit for someone to tell me I couldn't. OTOH, I was the 2nd to arrive in the room where a baby was dead in bed with mom. We tried to code the baby, but there was no hope. The baby died of suffocation. I know it's a freak thing and will probably never happen again. But the hospital isn't willing to risk it again, and I support that.

 

But you have no damages to claim unless you are injured. Should you press criminal charges? Sure. My husband also works in a hospital and at times parents get obnoxious, sometimes pushing, grabbing etc. Someone once spat at him. It sucks, but it is not grounds to sue someone.

 

Well, we will just have to disagree on that. I've never been physically assaulted, but if I was, yes, I would sue.

[ktgrok]

The sleeping with mom rule is another good example. I get that you have the rule. you have it for a reason. But I'm not a child and as an adult I make my own decisions. If you come tell me to put the baby in the bassinet, and I refuse, what happens then? I get detention? A demerit? No, you just tell me the rule, and I choose not to follow it. Maybe you have me sign something saying you told me about the rule. But as an adult I don't HAVE to follow it. Same with eating/drinking in labor. Our local hospital doesn't even allow ice chips while in labor. Which goes against the AMA and the ACOG positions on fluids in labor. When I had my son in a hospital they had their rule, but I didn't follow it. They were not going to kick me out of the hospital for it. They couldn't punish me. I just said, I understand, and then drank the drink I brought from home anyway.

 

Again, rules are not laws.

[Guest]

Nakia, I completely understand the rule your hospital made after having that experience, even though I have co-slept with my children (when they were babies). After experiencing that during your shift, would you sleep with future babies of yours? I hear conflicting stories about co-sleeping. Was there something in this particular case that made the risk to the infant higher than normal? How awful for the mother... poor woman.

[Guest]

As far as the OP, I think someone felt like they didn't have to follow the rules because of who they are. I think people would be pissed off if the nurses did not enforce the rules and something terrible had happened. If he and his wife didn't like the hospital rules, they shouldn't have had their child there.

[Nakia]

The sleeping with mom rule is another good example. I get that you have the rule. you have it for a reason. But I'm not a child and as an adult I make my own decisions. If you come tell me to put the baby in the bassinet, and I refuse, what happens then? I get detention? A demerit? No, you just tell me the rule, and I choose not to follow it. Maybe you have me sign something saying you told me about the rule. But as an adult I don't HAVE to follow it. Same with eating/drinking in labor. Our local hospital doesn't even allow ice chips while in labor. Which goes against the AMA and the ACOG positions on fluids in labor. When I had my son in a hospital they had their rule, but I didn't follow it. They were not going to kick me out of the hospital for it. They couldn't punish me. I just said, I understand, and then drank the drink I brought from home anyway.

 

Again, rules are not laws.

 

Yep, I went against the rules and drank and ate during labor. I ended up puking my toenails up and wished I had listened to the doctor. :D I don't want to take a baby out of his mom's arms, and I won't. But it hasn't come up. People understand that we are only looking out for the best interests of the baby. We are a baby friendly hospital, and most moms breastfeed, so of course that means most babies are in mom's arms nursing the majority of the time.

 

I do get what you're saying, Katie. I don't want to be told how to parent. But it's just like sending your kid to public school. The school has rules that you might not like, but if you choose that education for your child, you have to comply, to an extent.

 

Thankfully there are other options, like homeschooling and homebirthing.

 

Nakia, I completely understand the rule your hospital made after having that experience, even though I have co-slept with my children (when they were babies). After experiencing that during your shift, would you sleep with future babies of yours? I hear conflicting stories about co-sleeping. Was there something in this particular case that made the risk to the infant higher than normal? How awful for the mother... poor woman.

 

Well, I will tell you that that night was the worst night of my nursing career and one of the worst nights of my life, period. It changed my life, and I had PTSD for months afterword. It took me about 3 months to be able to accept a patient in the room where it happened. I can't discuss much of the case except to say that there was nothing uncommon with either mom or baby. There was absolutely no reason to be worried about the baby sleeping with mom.

 

I won't be having any more babies, but if I did, yes, I think I would sleep with mine. I still believe that it is safe for most babies to sleep with their moms, and all of mine slept with me from the minute they were born. I wouldn't sleep with them while at the hospital because I would deliver where I work, and I would not go against that policy.

 

I may not totally agree with the policy, but I support and enforce it because I want to keep babies safe, and I want to keep my job. If we can save one baby, it's worth it.

[Guest]

I'm so sorry you had to experience that, Nakia. How terrible. Are you allowed to say how the baby suffocated? Like was it due to blankets? Pillows? The mother? It's okay if you can't say.

 

I hear stuff like that and start thinking it's a bad idea to co-sleep, but numerous studies say it's safe. I just don't know.

[4kiddies]

I think too that people are forgetting that the father was trying to take the baby out, so even if he signed the baby out AMA the mother was still in the hospital bed. Can fathers sign their babies out AMA?

[Momof3littles]

I'm so sorry you had to experience that, Nakia. How terrible. Are you allowed to say how the baby suffocated? Like was it due to blankets? Pillows? The mother? It's okay if you can't say.

 

I hear stuff like that and start thinking it's a bad idea to co-sleep, but numerous studies say it's safe. I just don't know.

I have no idea what happened in the hospital case cited above. Don't forget many women may be recovering from the use of meds for labor and delivery, may be taking higher potency pain meds, they may be obese, they may be sleep-deprived, etc. Those things are all thought to increase cosleeping related deaths. I can understand hospitals having a policy on no cosleeping, but I also think a responsible and informed parent can make a decision to cosleep.

[Mommy22alyns]

DH and I were just discussing this and came to the same paparazzi conclusion. This man's actions were illogical at best.

 

I'd like to say this as respectfully as possible - some of you are being pretty hard on those nurses. In have had 3 hospital births and in each I was greatly appreciative of both the care given by the attentive nursing staff and for the peace of mind provided by a security system to protect against infant abduction. The Kennedys could have had a home birth attended by a concierge doc. But they chose a hospital birth. When in Rome...

 

Yes, absolutely! I too was so grateful to the whole nursing staff, especially when I was hospitalized for a month with Sylvia.

[Guest]

I have no idea what happened in the hospital case cited above. Don't forget many women may be recovering from the use of meds for labor and delivery, may be taking higher potency pain meds, they may be obese, they may be sleep-deprived, etc. Those things are all thought to increase cosleeping related deaths. I can understand hospitals having a policy on no cosleeping, but I also think a responsible and informed parent can make a decision to cosleep.

 

I did wonder about any pain meds, but I know Nakia cannot go into too much detail. I would like to know as much info as possible, so I can make an informed decision about this. I am going to continue researching. I do think, for the most part, I did let my babies sleep in their bassinets right next to my bed while we were in the hospital because they actually slept. It's once I took them home that they decided they have issues with bassinets, lol.

[Momof3littles]

I did wonder about any pain meds, but I know Nakia cannot go into too much detail. I would like to know as much info as possible, so I can make an informed decision about this. I am going to continue researching. I do think, for the most part, I did let my babies sleep in their bassinets right next to my bed while we were in the hospital because they actually slept. It's once I took them home that they decided they have issues with bassinets, lol.

If you want research on the pro side, look at Jay Gordon and Dr. James McKenna's research. http://cosleeping.nd.edu/safe-co-sleeping-guidelines/

 

http://cosleeping.nd.edu/controversies/

[ktgrok]

Yep, I went against the rules and drank and ate during labor. I ended up puking my toenails up and wished I had listened to the doctor. :D I don't want to take a baby out of his mom's arms, and I won't. But it hasn't come up. People understand that we are only looking out for the best interests of the baby. We are a baby friendly hospital, and most moms breastfeed, so of course that means most babies are in mom's arms nursing the majority of the time.

 

I do get what you're saying, Katie. I don't want to be told how to parent. But it's just like sending your kid to public school. The school has rules that you might not like, but if you choose that education for your child, you have to comply, to an extent.

 

Thankfully there are other options, like homeschooling and homebirthing.

 

 

 

.

 

Yes, there are other options, but most women wouldn't know they couldn't sleep with their baby until they were already there. Checking out at that point might not be feasible.

 

Also, even you admit you broke the rules about eating and drinking. Why is that rule ok to break but not others? The point is, in the end, you chose what you did, not the hospital. They cover their butt with the rules, and you do what you want.