What is the deal with RFK's son and the maternity ward?

[Danestress]

Google and read about this from your news source of choice. I'm just not sure I get what is going on. Why isn't a Dad allowed to walk with his baby or take her off the maternity ward if he feels like it?

 

Is there just more to this story?

[snickelfritz]

Who is RFK?

 

I know when I had my dd's (now 8 and 6) all babies had alarm sensors on them that tied into the hospital security system. They were supposed to be in the mom's room or in the bassinet, being wheeled directly to the nursery. That let the nurses know that each baby was with a legitimate person. Taking them out of the baby wing would have set alarms off. They expressly told us not to be walking with them out of our room.

[Danestress]

that makes sense. It seems weird to me, though, that a nurse is ordering a Dad to put a baby back in the bassinet. I mean, it's HIS baby. His fourth - so it's not like he can't be trusted with his own baby.

 

So normally a Mom can't legally walk of the maternity ward with her baby?

[snickelfritz]

that makes sense. It seems weird to me, though, that a nurse is ordering a Dad to put a baby back in the bassinet. I mean, it's HIS baby. His fourth - so it's not like he can't be trusted with his own baby.

 

So normally a Mom can't legally walk of the maternity ward with her baby?

 

I'm not a rule breaker, so I never tried. :001_smile: I think that if you were wanting to go out walking with them, you're probably ready to check out.

 

Our official checkout procedure was to be wheeled out by an orderly. So, I would assume that a nurse, seeing someone walking out the elevator with a newborn in their arms, would be trained to initiate an emergency procedure.

 

I found the article. I think only power-high ( including the surgeon-friend, who should know hospital procedures) people throw a fit at a nurse trying to tell you to take the baby back. Both deliveries, we received explicit instructions about the procedures to prevent baby stealing.

Edited February 26, 2012 by snickelfritz

[Momof3littles]

that makes sense. It seems weird to me, though, that a nurse is ordering a Dad to put a baby back in the bassinet. I mean, it's HIS baby. His fourth - so it's not like he can't be trusted with his own baby.

 

So normally a Mom can't legally walk of the maternity ward with her baby?

 

I am sure there are many layers to the story. However, if one checks out (mom or dad) with the baby early, they would need to sign that they checked out AMA. This protects the hospital from some liability if something were to happen in the days following.

 

I have no idea what the full story is, and I'm sure it is more complex than it appears at face value. However, they typically would have you sign out AMA since the baby has not yet been discharged.

[*Jen*]

For legal reasons hospitals will not allow you to walk around the hospital floor holding a baby. If baby is being moved from room to nursery etc they have to be in a bassinette. Both for safety of the baby and so the hospital has an easier time identifying if a baby is one they are supposed to be in charge of versus a baby that is visiting.

[Jayne J]

I couldn't have left the ward with any of my three babies. They had sensors in their anklets/bracelets that (IIRC) would actually lock the door to leave the ward if you tried take the baby through it, and sound an alarm. We had to be discharged and the anklet and bracelets removed before we left. (The adults could come and go freely, but not the baby.)

[Princess Peach]

Sounds like someone should've had a homebirth.

 

And anger management classes. :001_huh:

[LucyStoner]

I think the nurses attempting to sue him is absurd. Yes, she was enforcing the standard hospital policy. I understand why the hospital has those policies but I also understand why some families would rather do it differently. He has a seemingly credible witness that says the nurses were the agressors in the altercation.

 

There is a steep price to being named Bush and Kennedy or whatnot and that includes random people trying to scam you.

[swellmomma]

For legal reasons hospitals will not allow you to walk around the hospital floor holding a baby. If baby is being moved from room to nursery etc they have to be in a bassinette. Both for safety of the baby and so the hospital has an easier time identifying if a baby is one they are supposed to be in charge of versus a baby that is visiting.

 

:iagree: This. I have only had an issue with it with #2 (2 others were nicu babies and the 3rd I never left my bed much anyway, I had a loud roommate and stayed in bed trying to sleep when I could), I was pacing my hospital room with dd because she would not stop crying. I stepped into the hall for a change of pace and got blasted by a nurse to get back in my room and put dd back int he bassinet. I had my dr discharge us both 12 hours after birth so I could do what was needed to settle my baby.

 

I am a rule breaker though and do not use the bassinets in hospitals unless I am in the shower. Otherwise baby is in my arms including while I sleep.

 

As for others not leaving the ward with baby until the baby is discharged and bands match up etc no one can take it off the ward. THis is for the safety of the baby ensuring that someone could not steal the baby away.

[swellmomma]

I think the nurses attempting to sue him is absurd. Yes, she was enforcing the standard hospital policy. I understand why the hospital has those policies but I also understand why some families would rather do it differently. He has a seemingly credible witness that says the nurses were the agressors in the altercation.

 

There is a steep price to being named Bush and Kennedy or whatnot and that includes random people trying to scam you.

 

I did not realize that part. That is beyond ridiculous. I can see having the rules in place and enforcing them but not sueing a father for walking with or taking their own child off the ward.

[Princess Peach]

I did not realize that part. That is beyond ridiculous. I can see having the rules in place and enforcing them but not sueing a father for walking with or taking their own child off the ward.

 

They hired personal injury lawyers. He twisted the wrist of one nurse and forcefully kicked another in the pelvis. If you watch the video, she was knocked to the floor.

 

Not saying I agree either way, just pointing out the reason for the lawsuit is due to the injuries, not his breaking the rules.

[Unicorn.]

Just one more example of how the rich and/or famous don't have to follow the rules that the rest of society does.

[snickelfritz]

Just one more example of how the rich and/or famous don't have to follow the rules that the rest of society does.

 

I tend to agree. The nurse stops the elevator and he starts running for the stairwell with a newborn in his arms..... Really? That's a good way to diffuse the situation. As the nurse, would you not be freaking out that something bizarre was going on?

Edited February 26, 2012 by snickelfritz

[Rivka]

My hospital also had a rule against walking in the halls with a baby. Babies had to be pushed in bassinets, or if the mom was in a wheelchair she could hold her baby. It made sense to me, if you think about all the things that could be on the floor in a hospital hallway that could make someone slip or trip.

 

We were not allowed to take our baby off the floor, or even too close to an open elevator door, because an alarm would sound.

 

I see that the witness who says it was the nurses' fault has been a friend of the Kennedy family for the past 40 years.

[snickelfritz]

 

I see that the witness who says it was the nurses' fault has been a friend of the Kennedy family for the past 40 years.

 

I noticed that, too. Not exactly impartial.

[LucyStoner]

 

Not saying I agree either way, just pointing out the reason for the lawsuit is due to the injuries, not his breaking the rules.

 

But the act of assault is a criminal act which he was arrested for and only becomes a personal injury claims issue if there are actual financial damages for it. And I just don't see how there could be significant financial damages to that situation.

 

Anger management certainly is in order for anyone that does this but if some random father had done the same (and it happens- my husband has been grabbed and spit on for doing his job at the hospital he works in) without the deep pockets of the Kennedys to reach into then the nurses would not be suing.

 

ETA: They did not charge him with assault because there were no physical injuries. Also both stories are plausible watching video- you see her falling not how she fell or if she was trying to grab the baby as he states. No actual injury= no personal injury claim IMO. Specious personal injury claims give people with actual claims a harder time in seeking the damages that they really suffered.

Edited February 26, 2012 by kijipt

[Cinder]

Sadly, baby kidnapping is real. We just had a local case last month. I'd expect the nurses to err on the side of caution to protect the baby.

[ktgrok]

NOpe, not allowed to be out of your room with a baby in your arms. Not even on the same ward. If you took your baby from the room it had to be rollled in the bassinet. Not carried. They were afraid you would drop the baby. It was dumb. I had a homebirth the next time, lol.

[gardening momma]

Dd8 spent 12 days in the NICU (actually a level 2 nursery). When she was well enough that I could have her with me in my family room (they have a couple of rooms available for families to stay in when their baby is in the nursery and the mom has already been checked out) I was not allowed to take her out of the maternity ward.

[ktgrok]

And although I need to know what happened, I don't know the circumstances, I will say that I don't give a figs rear end what the rules of the hospital are. At the end of the day it is my kid, and I can carry them if I want to. Rules are not laws. And a hospital is not a kingdom unto itself, no matter how much it thinks it is.

[ktgrok]

Ok, I read the article. The woman tried to grab the baby's head, right out of his arms. Sorry...that's his kid. If you don't want to get hurt don't grab someone's newborn out of their arms.

[nmoira]

I didn't read the story, but at the hospital my kids were born at, babies were not to be taken out of the mother's room except in a basinette, and never out of the ward: one basinette assigned to a baby, with no "extras" visible anywhere. This is to prevent babynapping.

[snickelfritz]

Ok, I read the article. The woman tried to grab the baby's head, right out of his arms. Sorry...that's his kid. If you don't want to get hurt don't grab someone's newborn out of their arms.

 

Well, the article *I* read said she was trying to stabilize the head, because dad was flopping the baby around and the head was bouncing.

;).

 

That was in jest, in case it didn't come through the WWW (the article was real... I was joking about the different perspectives from the different people involved.). Who knows what happened. The lives of the famous are so....hmm....different from mine.

Edited February 26, 2012 by snickelfritz

[LucyStoner]

Sadly, baby kidnapping is real. We just had a local case last month. I'd expect the nurses to err on the side of caution to protect the baby.

 

See this is the least plausible explanation I have heard and makes me doubt the total veracity of what the nurses said. They knew it was the babies father. They could not have seriously thought the baby was being kidnapped yet they called the code for kidnapping. That is just plain silly. Get a security guard to bar him from leaving to enforce the rule or explain the and show him how to get the baby signed out but they escalated the situation when they tried to physically block his exit themselves.

[Mom-ninja.]

I think the nurses attempting to sue him is absurd. Yes, she was enforcing the standard hospital policy. I understand why the hospital has those policies but I also understand why some families would rather do it differently. He has a seemingly credible witness that says the nurses were the agressors in the altercation.

 

There is a steep price to being named Bush and Kennedy or whatnot and that includes random people trying to scam you.

 

:iagree: those nurses have some serious power issues.

[5kidsforME]

And although I need to know what happened, I don't know the circumstances, I will say that I don't give a figs rear end what the rules of the hospital are. At the end of the day it is my kid, and I can carry them if I want to. Rules are not laws. And a hospital is not a kingdom unto itself, no matter how much it thinks it is.

 

 

That all sounds well and good but the reality is, when a parent accidently drops baby or falls, all the sudden the hospital is blamed. Then sued for millions of dollars. That is when the hospital can make their rules and become the kindgom. If people don't like it they can homebirth.

[GinaPagnato]

Puhleeze. The nurses knew perfectly well who he was and that the baby wasn't being kidnapped.

 

They were on a power trip and he didn't comply. It would never have occurred to me to bypass the hospital's rules, cuz that's just not how I roll. But the nurses' reactions were over the top, IMHO, considering the kid was his, and they knew this well and good.

[ravinlunachick]

I couldn't have left the ward with any of my three babies. They had sensors in their anklets/bracelets that (IIRC) would actually lock the door to leave the ward if you tried take the baby through it, and sound an alarm. We had to be discharged and the anklet and bracelets removed before we left. (The adults could come and go freely, but not the baby.)

 

Same for me. With my second, our room was right by the ward doors, so if I even stepped out of my room to go to the nurses station with the baby, the alarm would sound.

 

When my 3rd was born, my MIL was dying in the hospice wing of the same hospital. We got special permission to take her to see MIL before it was too late. They had to put her in a bassinette and wheel her through the (long, long) hallways. We must have been stopped 30 times at least by other employees asking where we were going. I think most of them were when we got close to palliative care; they must have been afraid the baby was headed there. :(

[staceyobu]

And although I need to know what happened, I don't know the circumstances, I will say that I don't give a figs rear end what the rules of the hospital are. At the end of the day it is my kid, and I can carry them if I want to. Rules are not laws. And a hospital is not a kingdom unto itself, no matter how much it thinks it is.

 

I've had two out of hospital births because I hate hospital rules as much as the next person. However, I worked mom/baby floors for years as a nurse. Some hospitals have 40+ postpartum rooms. There is no way for a nurse to even lay eyes (much less remember as someone runs down the hall) on every patient and their family members.

 

Would you like it to be acceptable to the hospital to allow people to run down the hallway with your newborn in their arms? How would you feel if it was your baby snatched and the hospital just said "sorry, no one liked it when we tried to make infant security rules"?

 

There are also tons of domestic disputes going on these days with newborn infants where mothers worry about their babies being taken from the hospital by abusive husbands/boyfriends. There are also lots of crazies out there that circulate maternity wards scoping out exists, nurseries, etc.

 

It's like homeschooling... it's fine if I want to let my kids talk out whenever they have a question, get up to use the bathroom at will, get snacks all the time, etc. But if they go to school, they have to follow the rules for a classroom to function. You can't have 30 kids talking out of turn.

 

If they wanted to leave the hospital, they needed to inform someone they were leaving AMA. You don't even have to sign the papers. But if you are wanting to walk out with a newborn, you better let someone know what you are doing.

 

Even if they knew who the father was, did they know for sure it was HIS baby? This stuff has to be verified. Or it puts everyone at risk.

[catz]

Sounds like someone should've had a homebirth.

 

And anger management classes. :001_huh:

 

:iagree: Security measures like this are in most hospital maternity wards and if you want a hospital birth, following their safety procedures seems like common sense. How were these nurses supposed to know that was his baby? It didn't look like he stopped to show them ID bands? They were doing their job.

[Shellydon]

t

 

So normally a Mom can't legally walk of the maternity ward with her baby?

 

I gave birth at two different hospitals. At one of them, baby was not allowed to leave the room unless he/she was in a bassinet. So, no, mom was not allowed to walk the halls with baby.

[catz]

I gave birth at two different hospitals. At one of them, baby was not allowed to leave the room unless he/she was in a bassinet. So, no, mom was not allowed to walk the halls with baby.

 

This were the rules when I had my kids too. I can't imagine my DH trying to leave the ward with babe in arms. They made if crystal clear what the rules were.

 

I wonder what the discussion would be if we had a security video of some man walking out of a maternity ward babe in arms without being stopped? I really think those nurses were just doing their job. I think it's sad those rules have to be in place, but I do see why.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't imagine putting my newborn at risk in that way. I may not like the rules, but I would discuss it calmly but firmly. I might ask to see the charge nurse or might be a bit huffy while signing the papers but I can't imagine trying to make a end run for the door. In my opinion, that just isn't a grown-up way to handle a problem. It's not like by staying and obeying their rules that he was putting his baby at risk. The most that would happen is that he would be inconvenienced.

[Liz CA]

 

So normally a Mom can't legally walk of the maternity ward with her baby?

 

I was not allowed to. I had to sit in a wheelchair with baby in carrier on my lap. We had to pass several doors where the person pushing us, entered codes. Once we reached the parking lot, I was allowed to get out of the wheelchair and walk to our car. :D Thank God I did not have a C section of that carrier on your belly might have been painful.

[butterflymommy]

Why was he trying to leave the hospital with the baby?

 

If I were a nurse I would have freaked out thinking this was a custodial dispute/ kidnapping.

 

Did he want to show the baby to his buddies in the parking lot or something? :confused:

[Outdoorsy Type]

I thought this was standard practice. In the hospital my second son was born in he wore an ankle bracelet that would set off an alarm if he left the maternity ward. We had to sign papers and have his car seat inspected before it was taken off. I knew this going in and agreed to it.

 

I have to wonder if he thought he was above the policy or was not made aware of it. :confused:

[gardenmom5]

rfk is as arrogant as the family is stereotyped for.

 

the nurses are legally responsbile for babies and moms until they check out of the hospital (part of the reason for the insistence on wheelchairs until they are outside). he was wanting to do whatever he wanted without checking out, but the nursers still had legal responsiblity that affected their employment.

[gardenmom5]

I think the nurses attempting to sue him is absurd. .

 

what he did to the nurse was assault and battery and I would insist on charges being file. this has nothing to do with his "name". If he was joe average on the street, he'd have been arrested with charges filed.

[ErinE]

I found it odd, because in both hospitals where I gave birth (different regions of the US), we were told that we couldn't have our child in the hallways and our child had an alarm on that would go off if we attempted to leave the ward. It was made very clear the elevators wouldn't work and the stairwells were monitored as well. The reasons for the monitoring were clearly stated: preventing attempted kidnapping and safety of the infant.

 

In fact, my husband stepped outside the room with our daughter and a nurse very nicely asked if he could return to the room for safety reasons. Being familiar with hospitals, we wanted to ease the burden on our nursing staff as much as possible. I completely understand the hospital's reasons for the policy and while my child and I were under the hospital's care, made every effort to comply with the hospital's rules. I don't know the full facts of the case, but insisting on bring your child outside while it was under medical care is unreasonable. No matter how healthy the infant, it was still under the care of a physician and the nursing staff were doing their job.

 

Imagine if a father unhappy with the mother walked into the ward and walked out with the child. The nursing staff may know the father, but may not know the full history of the relationship. The story could very easily be: "Father kidnaps infant child."

[Mommy22alyns]

Both of my girls had "security tags" as well.

[stripe]

So normally a Mom can't legally walk of the maternity ward with her baby?

I did, every time, and was told I could leave whenever I was ready, no one really paid attention to the exact moment I left.

 

Eta: oh, you mean during the stay? No, I don't think so. I was told if either of us left, the alarms would go off. I could leave the room with the baby, though, or by myself. The alarms were to prevent a baby from being removed from the ward/building.

Edited February 27, 2012 by stripe

[FaithManor]

Okay, dh and I just read the story and laughed ourselves silly!

 

Seriously, the mother's statement, "He was just taking our son out for fresh air!", just about made me spit coffee all over the screen. It was Jan.7th in NEW YORK! What was it, 22 degrees??? Fresh Air! Really, this is NEW YORK CITY....outside in 20 degree weather was better than the air filtration system of the hospital, O2 all over the place, and non-smoking environment...yep, let's exchange that for a million car fumes! Wow, just wow!

 

Dh said if his concern was that the air quality of the hospital was so low that taking his newborn out for a walk in that weather was preferable, he should have just asked for an O2 mask!

 

Of course, I think that what he was actually doing and will not likely admit to was sneaking baby down to the lobby for photographers that had no hope of making it past hospital security. Kennedy ego, Kennedy baby, get the first pics...Jan. 7th - slow day for the newsrooms so hey, let's get dufus to give us first photo op and dufus falls for it.

 

But, that's my interpretation.

 

So, did he bring a snowsuit for his child? :glare:

 

Faith

[BigMamaBird]

I couldn't have left the ward with any of my three babies. They had sensors in their anklets/bracelets that (IIRC) would actually lock the door to leave the ward if you tried take the baby through it, and sound an alarm. We had to be discharged and the anklet and bracelets removed before we left. (The adults could come and go freely, but not the baby.)

 

This is how it was at my hospital. A bit annoying, but unfortunately, necessary in this day and age because of a few wack-os.

[gardenmom5]

Ok, I read the article. The woman tried to grab the baby's head, right out of his arms. Sorry...that's his kid. If you don't want to get hurt don't grab someone's newborn out of their arms.

 

he was moving around so much, the baby's head was shaking. she was trying to stabilize it.

[MariannNOVA]

Okay, dh and I just read the story and laughed ourselves silly!

 

Seriously, the mother's statement, "He was just taking our son out for fresh air!", just about made me spit coffee all over the screen. It was Jan.7th in NEW YORK! What was it, 22 degrees??? Fresh Air! Really, this is NEW YORK CITY....outside in 20 degree weather was better than the air filtration system of the hospital, O2 all over the place, and non-smoking environment...yep, let's exchange that for a million car fumes! Wow, just wow!

 

Dh said if his concern was that the air quality of the hospital was so low that taking his newborn out for a walk in that weather was preferable, he should have just asked for an O2 mask!

 

Of course, I think that what he was actually doing and will not likely admit to was sneaking baby down to the lobby for photographers that had no hope of making it past hospital security. Kennedy ego, Kennedy baby, get the first pics...Jan. 7th - slow day for the newsrooms so hey, let's get dufus to give us first photo op and dufus falls for it.

 

But, that's my interpretation.

 

So, did he bring a snowsuit for his child? :glare:

 

Faith

 

 

This is probably the most logical explanation.

 

There will always be people who think the rules do not apply to them. As for the nurses, they were doing their job. If they hadn't tried to stop him, I am sure there would have been repurcussions against them regarding not following procedure. Additionally, they probably have to deal with this kind of stuff alot, and I would imagine that at the end of the day, they don't give a fig what your last name is -- follow the rules.....'nuff said.

[4kiddies]

I haven't read all of the replies but I know that when I had my babies you were not even allowed to walk out of the room in the hall with the baby unless it was in a bassinet. It had to do with they didn't want you to fall with the baby.

 

However, I think the deeper issue here is the overwhelming attitude of entitlement and abusive nature of the Kennedy's to women in general. No matter what, those nurses were doing their job....

[RanchGirl]

I believe the weather was in the 60s in NYC that day. I don't know why the guy wanted to take his kid out for a walk. Maybe it was photogs or reckless rule breaking, or something equally obnoxious. But IMO those nurses endangered the baby much more by aggressively going after him and lunging at him the way they did. He wasn't dangling the child's head or endangering it in any way. No matter what the situation, if I'm holding my newborn and someone comes after my child, I would react to protect the baby.

 

They could have called and had security meet him at the bottom of the elevator. Poof, problem solved.

 

Furthermore, the reports say there were no injuries so they are basically threatening to sue for damages over a damaged ego -- makes these nurses look even more ridiculous than they already do.

[ktgrok]

I hear so many saying "rules are rules" but don't a parent's rights override a company's rules? Like I said earlier they are rules, not laws. yes, they have to tell him to stop. But he doesn't have to listen to them. He has no legal obligation to follow their rules. It is his kid, and he can leave if he wants to.

[aggieamy]

I've had two out of hospital births because I hate hospital rules as much as the next person. However, I worked mom/baby floors for years as a nurse. Some hospitals have 40+ postpartum rooms. There is no way for a nurse to even lay eyes (much less remember as someone runs down the hall) on every patient and their family members.

 

Would you like it to be acceptable to the hospital to allow people to run down the hallway with your newborn in their arms? How would you feel if it was your baby snatched and the hospital just said "sorry, no one liked it when we tried to make infant security rules"?

 

There are also tons of domestic disputes going on these days with newborn infants where mothers worry about their babies being taken from the hospital by abusive husbands/boyfriends. There are also lots of crazies out there that circulate maternity wards scoping out exists, nurseries, etc.

 

It's like homeschooling... it's fine if I want to let my kids talk out whenever they have a question, get up to use the bathroom at will, get snacks all the time, etc. But if they go to school, they have to follow the rules for a classroom to function. You can't have 30 kids talking out of turn.

 

If they wanted to leave the hospital, they needed to inform someone they were leaving AMA. You don't even have to sign the papers. But if you are wanting to walk out with a newborn, you better let someone know what you are doing.

 

Even if they knew who the father was, did they know for sure it was HIS baby? This stuff has to be verified. Or it puts everyone at risk.

 

:iagree:. Well said.