Older teen son dizzy spell at karate - anyone else had this happen?

[JennifersLost]

My ds16 was at karate yesterday and they had a vigorous workout (like usual) and then were sparring. He got hit/kicked? in the knee and crouched down - I guess in pain. Then when he tried to move everything went dark for about 10 seconds. It was like the vertigo you get when you stand up suddenly, but it went on for a long time.

 

Dh took him to the hospital and they did a number of tests and found nothing. Now we're supposed to take him to the doctor.

 

Maybe it was just an extreme headrush, but has anyone else had a kid this has happened to? I've never had a kid faint or anything. What could cause this?

[LG Gone Wild]

glycogen depletion?

[dirty ethel rackham]

I used to faint as a shock reaction to pain. Sprain an ankle? Passed out. Break a wrist? Passed out. Hit a parked car while riding a bike and go tumbling over the top and escape without a scratch? Passed out. I think it is called a "vagal response" or something like that. I do tend to have lower blood pressure than the general population. No long term effects.

[jplain]

Vasovagal syncope is definitely possible. It is also called vasovagal episode or vasovagal response. It is characterized by a sudden drop in blood pressure, usually triggered by something upsetting or alarming (seeing blood, pain, etc.). It's not unusual in young adults, and sparring wouldn't be a surprising triggering event. Fortunately it is more or less benign. The biggest danger is hitting one's head after passing out.

 

My husband had his first episode as a young teen, after being forced to stand still for a very long time at summer camp. (Nice, huh?) After that it happened a couple times in his 20s (no known trigger), and then he had an episode in his mid-30s a few years ago (about 15 minutes after an outpatient procedure). That last time he was seriously scraped up by the fall, but fortunately he didn't have a concussion and didn't need stitches.

 

DH's episodes happen so infrequently that they still catch him by surprise every time. People who have them more frequently learn to recognize the early signs, and can get themselves down on the ground, or at least in the "head between knees" position before they pass out.

Edited February 22, 2012 by jplain

[Harriet Vane]

Vasovagal syncope is definitely possible. It is also called vasovagal episode or vasovagal response. It is characterized by a sudden drop in blood pressure, usually triggered by something upsetting or alarming (seeing blood, pain, etc.). It's not unusual in young adults, and sparring wouldn't be a surprising triggering event. Fortunately it is more or less benign. The biggest danger is hitting one's head after passing out.

 

My husband had his first episode as a young teen, after being forced to stand still for a very long time at summer camp. (Nice, huh?) After that it happened a couple times in his 20s (no known trigger), and then he had an episode in his mid-30s a few years ago (about 15 minutes after an outpatient procedure). That last time he was seriously scraped up by the fall, but fortunately he didn't have a concussion and didn't need stitches.

 

DH's episodes happen so infrequently that they still catch him by surprise every time. People who have them more frequently learn to recognize the early signs, and can get themselves down on the ground, or at least in the "head between knees" position before they pass out.

 

:iagree: Both my dh and my dd have experienced this. It's a common pain response. When it happened to my dh I called an ambulance because in addition to the fainting, he shook and lost focus--it looked *exactly* like a seizure. (The shaking and seizure-like effects happen to only a tiny percentage of those prone to vasovagal syncope--most people simply faint and that's it.) We did thousands of dollars worth of testing and scans--he is healthy as a horse. At the end of all this it was agreed that it was vasovagal syncope, and really not a big deal.

 

Your ds should try to monitor the signs so he can sit before fainting (and not hit his head). Also if it happens again he should lay down with his feet up to normalize his blood pressure.

[JennifersLost]

Thanks people! I knew someone would have something helpful to say.

 

I'll pass on the info to him and I guess we'll see what the doctor says, too.

[abbeyej]

Ds has vasovagal syncope (with the "rare" seizure-looking recovery -- very scary to see, but *not* truly seizure-related) as well. For him, keeping well-hydrated *and* keeping his sodium intake up is key to preventing these episodes -- especially in hot weather and/or when he's doing strenuous physical activity. They still happen once in a while, but we can minimize them. Just drinking water is *not* enough. He needs additional sodium throughout the day and some electrolytes in his water bottle. During the summer he usually starts his day with a cup of miso (our ped's mom is Japanese so when we told him we were doing this, he was delighted, lol) as a sodium supplement. We buy packets of electrolyte powder to mix into water bottles for hot, sweaty days as well.

[Harriet Vane]

Ds has vasovagal syncope (with the "rare" seizure-looking recovery -- very scary to see, but *not* truly seizure-related) as well. For him, keeping well-hydrated *and* keeping his sodium intake up is key to preventing these episodes -- especially in hot weather and/or when he's doing strenuous physical activity. They still happen once in a while, but we can minimize them. Just drinking water is *not* enough. He needs additional sodium throughout the day and some electrolytes in his water bottle. During the summer he usually starts his day with a cup of miso (our ped's mom is Japanese so when we told him we were doing this, he was delighted, lol) as a sodium supplement. We buy packets of electrolyte powder to mix into water bottles for hot, sweaty days as well.

 

Hey--I am intrigued by your ds' seizure-looking recovery, simply because most people who experience this do not have this. I haven't run into anyone else who can relate to our experience. Do you mind sharing your experience with me?

 

In my case, dh had gotten up to use the washroom in the middle of the night. I woke up when I heard loud banging kinds of sounds. I thought it was one of the kids, but they were sleeping peacefully. Dh told me he was sleepy and had just stumbled a little. Then he fell slowly. I grabbed him and eased him to the floor and asked him if he was okay. He looked at me and started to answer, then his eyes shifted out of focus and his entire body started shaking. I held his face while he shook, calling out his name. It felt like forever. It was one of the most frightening moments of my life.

 

Dh had no memory of his shaking. We talked for a minute or two, then it happened again, and I again held his face while his body shook. At that point I called the ambulance.

 

They ran all kinds of tests, CAT scans, MRIs. It was elaborate. He saw a neurologist, cardiologist, and pulmonary dr. He was forbidden to drive for several weeks. At the time his commute was an hour (more in bad traffic), so getting him to and from work was time-consuming and complicated.

 

Having watched my aunt suffer terribly for seven years before dying of a brain tumor, I am so very, very thankful that it turned out to be just a vasovagal syncope. Dh just has to get up more slowly from a laying position, and eat more salt. I don't think I'll ever shake the horror of those moments on the floor, though, holding his face as he shook.

[JennifersLost]

Huh - this is interesting - I've never heard of needing to up salt intake before.

 

Wouldn't most people eating a western diet get plenty of salt anyway? (I always thought we were all getting too much salt!)

[livetoread]

My son had a couple of seizure-like vasovagal responses when he was younger; from about 18 mos to around age 5 he had four.

 

They all occurred after he was either slightly hurt or startled. He would collapse, then he would kind of arch backwards while his eyes went out of focus. He would stop breathing too, and during the worst episode he stopped breathing for what felt like forever. He never shook, just kind of arched and tensed while being completely out of it. Then he'd come back around and be oblivious to what had happened.

 

We got a thorough seizure work up at a very good children's hospital and vasovagal was the final diagnosis. Scary stuff but he seems to have outgrown it as he is now 13 and hasn't had any more.

[*********]

Uh, yeah...

 

I almost passed out while sitting in my chair at lamaze class. We were watching a video, and it was the first time I'd ever seen what birthing a baby actually looks like. I seriously almost had to lay down.

 

I also *did* pass out as a teenager after the doctor yanked out my ingrown toe nail. I was fine when he did it, but then I walked up front with my mom to pay, and down I went.

 

Thankfully, I've seen to have developed a much stronger constituion since having children. :D

[abbeyej]

Huh - this is interesting - I've never heard of needing to up salt intake before.

 

Wouldn't most people eating a western diet get plenty of salt anyway? (I always thought we were all getting too much salt!)

 

Nah, not necessarily. I mean, sure, it's quite possible to eat too much sodium if you're eating a lot of processed foods. But some people need more salt than others, *particularly* if they're engaged in strenuous physical activity and sweating a lot. For people with naturally low blood pressure (often children and teenagers do, especially thin, rapidly growing ones), reducing sodium in the body (usually through sweat) can cause even greater bp drops -- making them more likely to pass out. Add in that many highly active people make a conscious effort *not* to use a lot of processed foods (and we don't preserve our food with salt much any more), well, sure, sometimes people can need *more* salt.

 

I do try to give ds salt in traditional or fermented foods rather than just pouring table salt into him (though, in a pinch, that'll do). So... Organic wheat-free tamari (soy sauce), miso soup, good quality pickles, good quality salt with minerals, and, when desperate, electrolyte packs with sodium (they don't all contain sodium).

 

People who work out and sweat a lot *need* something beyond water to rehydrate. I generally avoid sports drinks, but there are reasons why they exist.