I *want* her to go...

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Dd asked to sleep over a friend's house next weekend. I really, really want her to go, but I can't let her. :glare:

 

Since we're having academic and hygiene refusal problems, I attached school and hygiene to the sleep over.

 

She's behind by 10 lessons (LA, math, science), has an F in science, and was whining about brushing her teeth last night.

 

Part of me wants to increase her time spent with this friend and have them study together (AFAIK, friend is doing well in school). But the other part wants dd to take some responsibility.

 

What would you do?

 

Friend aside- Is it wrong for me to "take over" her method of studying? I was thinking of making her flash cards and printing other worksheets related to the science topic. I've also been looking for experiments more closely related to the topic than the text gives.

 

I took over math and she's doing much better. The problem we ran into is that the textbook and cyber lessons do not explain things well. Some topics had me confused to the point that I had to google and do some problems myself.

 

If I study ahead of her in science, we may be able to get the same results.

 

I have no intentions of homeschooling her this way. 90% of our curriculum will be done together, and since she's really lacking in basic skills, dd will be doing a lot of work with ds and I (but at a much faster rate).

[Chris in VA]

I'd give her as much responsibility as she can handle. Flashcards?--She will benefit from using them, but much more so if she makes her own.

I don't like sticker charts and such for hygiene unless you are maybe 2 or 3 yo. She's 11, right?

Stick to your guns.

Yes, you can tailor the lessons to her, yes, you are not enabling her irresponsibility by finding a good method/explanation for teaching the material. BUT it's up to her to do the work. Don't you dare dumb it down if she can get it, for example, but clarifying is fine. But there's a thin line between that and having her not take responsibility.

 

This has been very hard for me to learn. I do too much for my kids that they could do alone.

 

Right now I'm practicing what I'm preaching. Dd is struggling to complete an assignment she had two weeks to finish. It's quite involved. I supported her, reminded her, but she is cutting out the pictures SHE found on the 'net, she is putting together the book HERSELF. She has 15 minutes before school. If she isn't uncomfortable with this experience, she will do it again next time. I am not going to find and print out that last picture of John Adams. I am NOT. :001_smile:

[bettyandbob]

Your dd has social issues. My oldest had a lot of social issues. When he was that age I let him have every opportunity to accept invitations, because invitations were so rare. So, when we had trouble with school I took away other privileges (TKD, homeschool gym, computer time, legos). That's what I did, I don't know your dd so you'll have to find the balance that works.

 

Additionally, is the issue that your dd is not ready for the level of responsibility of her education you've given her.

[Rebecca VA]

I would have a very frank talk with her about body odor and the fact that if she offends people she won't be invited out again. It's better for her to learn it from you in the privacy of your home than for her to suffer social disgrace. Tell her you aren't sure you can trust her to brush her teeth and shower at her friend's house, and that makes you feel she isn't ready for a sleepover. Her reaction to that (for better or worse) will probably tell you what you need to know.

 

BTW, when my daughter had braces, I took her to the dentist every single month for a cleaning. (I realize you didn't mention braces, but I'm just throwing this in.) She wasn't mature enough to be trusted. Sometimes (sigh) you just have to go beyond what is reasonable to make sure the job gets done.

[Ottakee]

Is she behind due to her special needs? Is the material/methods just not clicking with her?

 

If you have told her she could not go unless......then you need to stick with it but I would seriously reconsider saying this next time.

 

I have a 15 year old with hygiene issues---she will shower, brush her teeth, etc. if reminded and FOLLOWED up on, but honestly, it doesn't click on its own (doesn't with my 24ds with fetal alcohol either).

 

I agree with the other one who posted that if this is a good friend and situation that she might gain more from going and working on skills there. It is so hard for those kids with special needs and invitations are so rare.

 

Could you clue in the mom ahead of time that she needs to remind your dd that it is time to brush her teeth, etc.? Can you send a little evening and morning check list for her to complete? I find that this (even daily here at home) is SOOOOO much more effective than mom nagging. I just ask, "is your list done" not nagging them to brush their teeth, put on deo, take a shower, etc.

[Dmmetler]

On the hygiene, is there any way that you could have (or encourage) a "spa day" for your DD and a good friend or two, either at a spa place or at someone's house? Sometimes peer pressure works wonders!

[Angel]

Your dd has social issues. My oldest had a lot of social issues. When he was that age I let him have every opportunity to accept invitations, because invitations were so rare. So, when we had trouble with school I took away other privileges (TKD, homeschool gym, computer time, legos). That's what I did, I don't know your dd so you'll have to find the balance that works.

 

Additionally, is the issue that your dd is not ready for the level of responsibility of her education you've given her.

 

If this is your aspie :iagree:

 

Also, if this is your aspie, your dd might be in one of the hardest stages. My aspie dd, now 17, had a horrible, horrible time between 11-13 with school. It took us some time to figure out how best to work with her and the right programs and curriculum that would work with her. And sometimes it would change suddenly and we would have to start all over, like when she would have a growth spurt (mental or physical). Add that to her sensory issues and trying to figure out the rapidly changing social world at that age. Ai yi yi!

 

Dd had major hygiene issues then. I think it is normal at that stage but is exacerbated by the Asperger's and, for my dd, sensory issues as well. It was a fight well beyond 13.

 

As far as school work goes, are you helping her with it or is she trying to be independent? Again, in my experience, independence was just not possible for dd at this age. In fact, we achieved it at about 15. Things would not get done if I told her what to do and left her to it. My dd wasn't doing it on purpose (don't know your situation there), but she simply could not remember or she simply was overwhelmed and wouldn't/couldn't start it. The right curriculum for her was huge.

 

I say let her spend time with her friend. If the friend is a good kid, then she may start to pick up on her (imitate) good qualities. I would totally address the school and hygiene issues separately. It took me a long time (and many tears on both our parts) to realize that I had to deal with dd differently.

 

:grouphug: I have been there! I thought we would never make it through those years with an intact relationship. But we did.

[In the Rain]

I say let her spend time with her friend. If the friend is a good kid, then she may start to pick up on her (imitate) good qualities. I would totally address the school and hygiene issues separately. It took me a long time (and many tears on both our parts) to realize that I had to deal with dd differently.

 

:iagree:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Thanks everyone!

 

I'll let her hang out with her friend and address things separately.

 

I'll use electronics. NO electronics until science is pulled up to a C, and then only after hygiene and school are taken care of for the day.

[swellmomma]

I would allow her to go to the sleepover. I would not tie school and hygiene to it at all. While I understand where you are coming from I think the sleepover is actually more vital right now than her grade in science. ANd coming from me that is saying a lot, since I abhor sleepovers in general. However, for a child with Asperger's or any other disorder that impares social skills the likelyhood of even being invited to a sleepover is a rare thing. When my kids get invited to a friend's house, or to a sleepover, or to a camp, or an outting etc I always say yes if it is not interferring with other plans, because those invites are such a rare thing. Kids with social issues need the chance to be included in as many social situations as possible. The hygeine stuff is pretty normal for the age, and actaully a little bit of ribbing from your friends about needing to brush your teeth or hair or have a shower often gets through to the kids better than mom nagging them to do those things.

 

Sticker chart at her age no, constant reminders and being told that it must be done no matter what yes.

 

School, doing what you can to salvage the year, you have already posted in the past that this form of school is not working, but you have to finish it out.

 

Allow the sleepover, Enjoy the break for yourself. Use the time to do something special with ds. And allow her the chance to hang out with her friend, chances are as they get a bit older the invites to anything will start to dwindle if she continues with hygeine issues or behavioural ones tied to the aspergers. I revel in every chance for my kids to be "normal"

[amo_mea_filiis.]

She is trying to be independent because when I help, she has to think! I really hope that her 5 years in PS have produced the lack of study skills I'm seeing, because that would mean I can work past them. If it's something else underlying, I'll just have to work harder with her.

[swellmomma]

She is trying to be independent because when I help, she has to think! I really hope that her 5 years in PS have produced the lack of study skills I'm seeing, because that would mean I can work past them. If it's something else underlying, I'll just have to work harder with her.

 

 

No matter the cause whether ingrained after 5 yrs of ps or a more innate issue you will have to work hard with her. No ifs, ands or buts about that, that's just sort of the territory with kids that have extra issues. It doesn't matter what caused it, now it is a matter of teaching/training new skills.

[Tree House Academy]

If this were my child:

 

I would have a long talk with her about what you told her you would do (i.e. not let her go with friend if...), and tell her that you have thought about it more and changed your mind. Make sure you praise her for any efforts she has taken to make things better. It is hard to pull up an "F" in a short period of time. As long as she has worked diligently and done a little extra (maybe even tell her that she has to specifically do X and X lessons before she can go), then I would let her go. It may be good for her to see those girls putting on deodorant, going to take a shower, all brushing their teeth that night, etc. Kids tend to learn socially acceptable behaviors from their peers. I remember a sleepover when I was 12 - all the girls sharing beauty tips, putting on pimple cream, sharing lotions that smelled good. It really changed how I looked at hygine and I still remember it!

 

My ds is 12 (13 in Aug) and hygine is an issue for us too. He doesn't like to brush his teeth as often as he should (3 times a day...he may do it once) and he will shower and put on deodorant and cologne but only when I remind him to do so. He has acne to a moderate degree and we are working on that too. I think each child is different and it just takes time for it to "click" with them as to WHY they need to be clean and smell nice. It will come.

[Trilliums]

I would allow her to go to the sleepover. I would not tie school and hygiene to it at all. While I understand where you are coming from I think the sleepover is actually more vital right now than her grade in science. ANd coming from me that is saying a lot, since I abhor sleepovers in general. However, for a child with Asperger's or any other disorder that impares social skills the likelyhood of even being invited to a sleepover is a rare thing. When my kids get invited to a friend's house, or to a sleepover, or to a camp, or an outting etc I always say yes if it is not interferring with other plans, because those invites are such a rare thing. Kids with social issues need the chance to be included in as many social situations as possible. The hygeine stuff is pretty normal for the age, and actaully a little bit of ribbing from your friends about needing to brush your teeth or hair or have a shower often gets through to the kids better than mom nagging them to do those things.

 

Sticker chart at her age no, constant reminders and being told that it must be done no matter what yes.

 

School, doing what you can to salvage the year, you have already posted in the past that this form of school is not working, but you have to finish it out.

 

Allow the sleepover, Enjoy the break for yourself. Use the time to do something special with ds. And allow her the chance to hang out with her friend, chances are as they get a bit older the invites to anything will start to dwindle if she continues with hygeine issues or behavioural ones tied to the aspergers. I revel in every chance for my kids to be "normal"

 

 

:iagree: Such a nice reply. :)

 

 

As a side note, I have been surprised by the number of times the kids have had sleepovers and the invitees show up without toothbrush, pjs or change of clothes. Since summer sleep overs generally involved fire pits, I end up doing their laundry. These were always boys though; I had assumed it would be different if I had girls.

[Angel]

She is trying to be independent because when I help, she has to think! I really hope that her 5 years in PS have produced the lack of study skills I'm seeing, because that would mean I can work past them. If it's something else underlying, I'll just have to work harder with her.

 

With my dd is isn't a lack of study skills, it is an inability to even comprehend study skills and being overwhelmed by the task ahead. In our experience, it is the Asperger's. This is something that dd at 17 still struggles with. She had absolutely no comprehension of it at 11. Zero.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

With my dd is isn't a lack of study skills, it is an inability to even comprehend study skills and being overwhelmed by the task ahead. In our experience, it is the Asperger's. This is something that dd at 17 still struggles with. She had absolutely no comprehension of it at 11. Zero.

 

What do you do when you've set up a system that works, when the child uses it, but refuses to do so?

 

I don't have the schedule in front of me, so I'm not sure exactly what it says, but basically...

 

Each subject is broken down into parts. (I took each subject and created a plan for her that corresponds to the lesson the teacher posted) The only thing (it seems) in her way is the compliance to do this.

 

Her binder is broken into sections for each subject. In the folder separating the subjects is the weekly plan. On the front of the binder is her school week schedule.

 

So for science; monday, sign on to school page, get lesson page #. Open text to that lesson. Write out all vocabulary words on index cards. Go to mom to complete "explore" activity.

 

Tue, reread the vocab words, read the text pages, answer the "quick check" questions in your notebook. Take books to mom and review lesson.

 

Wed, complete matching workbook pages.

 

Thursday, study with mom. Answer end of lesson assessment questions online.

 

Friday, test.

[fairfarmhand]

uhhh....the hygeine issue is pretty normal. I had to nag my 11 yo dd about deodorant, shower, teeth, etc cause she was a little girl in a growing stinky body.

 

But now that she is 14, I have to remind her that her three siblings need the bathroom every once in awhile.

 

I have a 10 yo and will be repeating the pattern once again.

[TranquilMind]

Dd asked to sleep over a friend's house next weekend. I really, really want her to go, but I can't let her. :glare:

 

Since we're having academic and hygiene refusal problems, I attached school and hygiene to the sleep over.

 

She's behind by 10 lessons (LA, math, science), has an F in science, and was whining about brushing her teeth last night.

 

Part of me wants to increase her time spent with this friend and have them study together (AFAIK, friend is doing well in school). But the other part wants dd to take some responsibility.

 

What would you do?

 

Friend aside- Is it wrong for me to "take over" her method of studying? I was thinking of making her flash cards and printing other worksheets related to the science topic. I've also been looking for experiments more closely related to the topic than the text gives.

 

I took over math and she's doing much better. The problem we ran into is that the textbook and cyber lessons do not explain things well. Some topics had me confused to the point that I had to google and do some problems myself.

 

If I study ahead of her in science, we may be able to get the same results.

 

I have no intentions of homeschooling her this way. 90% of our curriculum will be done together, and since she's really lacking in basic skills, dd will be doing a lot of work with ds and I (but at a much faster rate).

I never tied time with friends - all too rare, in my experience - to school or chores. I always encouraged time with friends, as homeschoolers can be notoriously flaky and cancel at the last second. Your friends may vary.

 

I'd work hard with her all week and still let her go to the sleepover.

[Angel]

What do you do when you've set up a system that works, when the child uses it, but refuses to do so?

 

I don't have the schedule in front of me, so I'm not sure exactly what it says, but basically...

 

Each subject is broken down into parts. (I took each subject and created a plan for her that corresponds to the lesson the teacher posted) The only thing (it seems) in her way is the compliance to do this.

 

Her binder is broken into sections for each subject. In the folder separating the subjects is the weekly plan. On the front of the binder is her school week schedule.

 

So for science; monday, sign on to school page, get lesson page #. Open text to that lesson. Write out all vocabulary words on index cards. Go to mom to complete "explore" activity.

 

Tue, reread the vocab words, read the text pages, answer the "quick check" questions in your notebook. Take books to mom and review lesson.

 

Wed, complete matching workbook pages.

 

Thursday, study with mom. Answer end of lesson assessment questions online.

 

Friday, test.

 

 

I admit that I haven't had a compliance issue with my dd, so I can't speak to that. But I do know that if at 11 I would have given dd a binder with all her work for the week, she would have been overwhelmed. She would have been in tears not knowing which place to start or what might be the most important to be done first. It would have been paralyzing for her. In fact, the first time we had success with this was at about 15. We did MFW AH&L and she was able to look at the schedule and follow it with help from me. I still had to help her figure out what might be a good place to start and how to successfully organize her subjects. Otherwise, I would find her reading all the literature first thing and by lunch that was all she would have done and my dd is pretty much mentally done by lunch and then she would have all the subjects left to do.

 

I know you said that the system works when she uses it but I wonder, just based on our experience-don't know about your dd, if it is just too overwhelming. We schooled differently, dd doesn't like surprises to I tried to keep our basic schedule in a loose format. But I never gave her an assignment sheet for the week...it just didn't work. I would just have that loose format and then I would say time for math, and we would do math. Time for English, and we would do English. And so on and so forth. Actually, she did almost all of those on a white board with me. It was just more successful for her. She was in 8th grade before she started doing exercises in a notebook.

 

I don't know if that helps at all or not. At 16 and 17 my dd is now able to be in charge of her work. She is also better able to verbalize to me why she is having a rough day concentrating or sensory wise, something she never was able to do in that 11-13yo stage.

 

You may be reading this and thinking that I coddled her too much, and that's ok :001_smile: I finally came to a point where I was working with her where she was and not where I thought she should be or where her peers who had no issues were. I also realized that for this child one curriculum across the board didn't work. I had to cater to her learning style and it took a while to figure it out because she had a hard time verbalizing things early on. Once we put her in curriculum that was a fit for the way she learns, we had better success as well.

 

Again, I don't know your dd, so this may not even apply. But I do have some experience with Asperger's and can just share what we have been through and what worked and didn't.

[scrapbookbuzz]

Your dd has social issues. My oldest had a lot of social issues. When he was that age I let him have every opportunity to accept invitations, because invitations were so rare. So, when we had trouble with school I took away other privileges (TKD, homeschool gym, computer time, legos). That's what I did, I don't know your dd so you'll have to find the balance that works.

 

Additionally, is the issue that your dd is not ready for the level of responsibility of her education you've given her.

 

:iagree: to most of this. Despite the fact that she is 11yo, biologically, emotionally/socially she is about 9yo. Ask me how I know! ;) (See my signature line.) it took my dd forever it seemed, with me constantly reminding her to brush her hair every morning and use deodorant! Now that she's 13, I still have to get on her about taking showers/baths but she does at least brush her hair and use deodorant every day without me having to remind her!

 

Also, I would allow her accept that invitation since, as Betty says, the invitations are often few and far between. Take away other privileges. If she's an Aspie, than she probably has a collection of something; take those things away for disciplinary reasons, but not the get together. HTH!

[StephanieZ]

Thanks everyone!

 

I'll let her hang out with her friend and address things separately.

 

I'll use electronics. NO electronics until science is pulled up to a C, and then only after hygiene and school are taken care of for the day.

 

Excellent idea.

 

My kids aren't s/n, but simply b/c we are very busy and they hs, social time with friends is rare. Last year, I was banging my head against a wall trying to get my oldest to keep up with school, and I made the mistake of hanging sleepovers out as something to lose. Poor kid, she is a GOOD kid, tries to please, and LOVES her sleepovers, but she just couldn't keep her brain on task enough hours of every day to keep up. Just didn't have it developmentally.

 

Thankfully, after about a year of agony, I just decided to chuck it. I do what I can to get them to get their stuff done Mon-Fri, and if it's not done for the weekend and they want to have sleep overs or play dates, then HAVEATIT, and I just look the other way, and I begin again on Monday.

 

I can't fight ALL THE TIME. I need to let them have fun. So, I let it go.

 

TBH, my kids are doing MUCH better keeping up with school this year. I really didn't change much other than just letting go a bit by not using social time as a consequence. I still take away electronics or whatever, but not friend-access.