s/o Why liberals shouldn't homeschool

[teamturner]

B/c everyone should have the SAME opportunities. Nobody should get more or less, doncha know.

 

It's not fair for some parents to make sacrifices for what they consider the best interests of *their* children if not ALL parents can do the same!

 

Well...it's ok for the rich, who've always been able to afford 'better', b/c they're the ruling class, and the movers and shakers of the financial hiarchy, but the middle class is doing it now too? And some of the 'lower' class?! But, but but...that means their children might not be the cogs we need! They might be...INDIVIDUALS! *gasp*

 

Can't possibly have that! Society needs lemmings! How can we possibly instill 'everyone is equal' w/the elimination of awards (unless everyone gets one) and nobody being allowed to fail, etc?

 

How dare parents utilize their rights to treat their children as individuals?! It should be enough for them to HAVE the rights, they shouldn't actually excercise them! :svengo:

 

 

It's scary how right you are! It plays into the "fair" arguments that dominate much of the political discourse in this country. The only thing that might spare homeschool as a target is that in order to make education "fair" all the politicians would have to remove their children from private schools. :D

 

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the "lemming" response to homeschooling to switch from "Aren't you worried about socialization?" to "How is that fair for you to homeschool?"

[Audrey]

Reading this thread and this article has helped me to see what may be the next big argument against homeschooling. We've proved that we can give a decent or superior education, we're proving that homeschool kids have decent social skills, so my guess is that the next big argument against homeschooling is that we're helping to destroy the public schools by taking out the "smart children. From the article:

 

"the uptick in secular homeschooling may be, in part, a backlash against this narrow education agenda—a growing body of research suggests “peer effects†have a large impact on student achievement. Low-income kids earn higher test scores when they attend school alongside middle-class kids, while the test scores of privileged children are impervious to the influence of less-privileged peers. So when college-educated parents pull their kids out of public schools, whether for private school or homeschooling, they make it harder for less-advantaged children to thrive."

 

It's the homeschoolers fault! The reason that public schools are failing is because the parents who would be more involved in their children's school are now homeschooling and those smart kids who are now homeschooled are no longer helping their less-advantaged peers to thrive. Watch and wait.

 

Beth

 

 

I've heard that argument before from locals -- how can I deprive the school of student # funding, and how can I deprive the other kids of the rise in test score average my kid would bring?

 

The funding argument is inaccurate because the school division still gets $ for ds, just not the individual school. And, the test score thing is just speculation on their part.

 

I think it's all bunk. Your children are not my responsibility and I truly don't care if their education sucks rocks. If those parents want better for their kids then THEY have to do better for them. That could mean homeschooling, or it could mean demanding better from the schools, or it could mean something else entirely. Bottom line: other people's kids are not my problem, not my burden and not even on my radar of concern.

 

Harsh perhaps, but I'm in a very blunt and honest mood at the moment.

[melissel]

I think it's all bunk. Your children are not my responsibility and I truly don't care if their education sucks rocks. If those parents want better for their kids then THEY have to do better for them.

 

There were so many posts I agreed with in this thread, but honestly, Audrey hit on the crux of this issue for me. If they want better for their kids, then THEY should be afterschooling them and enriching them. If they want better from the SCHOOLS, then they have to hold the SCHOOLS accountable, not my children.

[melissel]

But see, this is what I am realizing. There is a HUGE gap right now.. There are parents who do not care AT ALL and they are reproducing at a large rate... My school district is FULL of it... The poverty is reproducing at a large rate... I'm not sure how to fix this.

 

I'm not sure how to fix it either. But I do know that throwing my kids under the bus of an institution that is, for the most part, in a downward spiral, is not going to be part of the solution. I won't sacrifice my children to it. I'll pay more taxes, I'll support safety net programs, I'll vote for the candidates who will push our country toward healthcare for all residents. But my sacrifice stops at my children's well-being. It just does.

 

ETA: And those who are pulling their kids from this failing system are not the cause of the growing gap. Putting all those kids back in the system will not fix the growing gap. There are much, much larger social issues at play. The schools are just a drop in the bucket.

Edited February 19, 2012 by melissel

[Impish]

And that about sums it up for me, Audrey.

 

I *am* contributing to society, by ensuring that I raise the most functional, healthy adults that I know how to.

 

How other parents choose to do the same is up to them, and not my responsibility.

 

I do not owe anyone my children.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I can't help but think that it is very ironic for the school people to miss us now, and to claim to rely upon us now, when they are the ones responsible for such a massive decline in the quality of public education that we, the "involved parents," found no option but to abandon them.

 

This is entirely on their own heads. If they had only maintained the standards of even one generation ago, the vast majority of us would have continued to work with the schools even as we privately acknowledged the serious problems. We would have tried, because at least our children would be grounded in the 3Rs, and we would have seen to it that our own children did their best in school. We would have also been room mothers, reading tutors, and drivers of the band bus. We would have sewn drama club costumes and chaperoned the prom. We would have wanted our children to have a shared heritage with their peers, and found that reason enough to do our part for the school.

 

That was possible last generation. In this generation, we watch the children of our neighbors and friends "trying," "doing their best," earning A's after hours and hours of study every night, only to be thoroughly astounded when they are placed in remedial classes at college. Those young people did everything they were told, and were not educated! Nobody bothered to tell them it was vanity. Hardworking high school students are being robbed of their birthright in the public schools of today. That is not the fault of homeschoolers, or private schoolers, or anyone who rejects such insanity for their own children.

 

Those people who are in the business of turning out uneducated graduates year after year can just look in the mirror if they miss the type of people who make public education work. Turning a blind eye to the problems of public school for the greater good is one thing. Looking away entirely from our own child's needs because of some misplaced sense of duty to "support our schools" is quite another. We've had to make a choice. We can support our schools or we can support our children, but an ever-lessening number of people are able to do both.

[Kirch]

You know, we never seem to hear arguments that upper middle class (liberal or not or whatever) parents need to have more kids so that they can go to school and the families will be involved in the schools longer. I mean, that would really have the same effect in the end, right? More upper middle class kids with educated, involved parents? :rolleyes:

[Jen in PA]

I've heard that argument before.

 

I'd put my kid in school if the school would actually give him what I consider to be an appropriate education.

 

:iagree: It seems as if the people making these arguments always assume that the public schools we are opting out of are merely mediocre -- my local schools are abysmal. I have seen the papers and projects of high school seniors here -- what would have been an F paper when I was in (public) high school is considered A level work here. Horrific.

[Kirch]

I think the thing that gets me so much about these "arguments" is how absurd they would be in other similar situations. Who in their right mind would argue that I should let my kids go hungry or be in danger just because there are other kids out there in the world who are hungry or in danger? I completely believe I have a moral responsibility to do what I can to help in those situations, but that doesn't include throwing my own kids under the bus. And if public schools showed any signs of being open to help from hs'ing parents (volunteering, suggestions about curricula or activities, tutoring, whatever) that didn't include sacrificing the well-being of our kids, they just might find that many of us would be willing to pitch in.

 

The impression I get, though, is that they are the professionals and don't need/want any help, thankyouverymuch. Just hand over your kids and your money. I know this isn't true everywhere (and it might not be true so much at the actual classroom level), but it seems pretty pervasive. Somehow I just don't see how throwing more students at the problem is going to be any more helpful than throwing money at it has been.

[Gingerbread Mama]

It's the homeschoolers fault! The reason that public schools are failing is because the parents who would be more involved in their children's school are now homeschooling and those smart kids who are now homeschooled are no longer helping their less-advantaged peers to thrive. Watch and wait.

 

Beth

 

This is not exactly the same thing, but we did have an article in our local paper which was blaming the downfall of PS on homeschoolers. A local teacher wrote that we homeschoolers were "bankrupting the coffers of public education" by not having our children in school, thereby giving the schools a chance to get funding for said child. Of course, she also quoted a woman who said that she was very concerned about all the HS children who sat in their basement all day, getting no social interaction...so I kind of wrote her off. I'm sure if she catches wind of that article, she will publish a new one in her column spouting the above.

 

I know far more former PSers who pulled their children because they were under-performing, not being taught basics, or not receiving appropriate services, than those who pulled their children because they were too advanced for PS.

 

:iagree:Granted, we are one of two families (that I know of) who HS locally, but both families did so because our children's educational needs were not being met. We both had children that COULD excel, given more one on one time and different curriculum choices. They simply were NOT thriving in the PS enviroment.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think the thing that gets me so much about these "arguments" is how absurd they would be in other similar situations. Who in their right mind would argue that I should let my kids go hungry or be in danger just because there are other kids out there in the world who are hungry or in danger? I completely believe I have a moral responsibility to do what I can to help in those situations, but that doesn't include throwing my own kids under the bus. And if public schools showed any signs of being open to help from hs'ing parents (volunteering, suggestions about curricula or activities, tutoring, whatever) that didn't include sacrificing the well-being of our kids, they just might find that many of us would be willing to pitch in.

 

The impression I get, though, is that they are the professionals and don't need/want any help, thankyouverymuch. Just hand over your kids and your money. I know this isn't true everywhere (and it might not be true so much at the actual classroom level), but it seems pretty pervasive. Somehow I just don't see how throwing more students at the problem is going to be any more helpful than throwing money at it has been.

 

Great post, Heather.

[Kirch]

I can't help but think that it is very ironic for the school people to miss us now, and to claim to rely upon us now, when they are the ones responsible for such a massive decline in the quality of public education that we, the "involved parents," found no option but to abandon them.

 

This is entirely on their own heads. If they had only maintained the standards of even one generation ago, the vast majority of us would have continued to work with the schools even as we privately acknowledged the serious problems. We would have tried, because at least our children would be grounded in the 3Rs, and we would have seen to it that our own children did their best in school. We would have also been room mothers, reading tutors, and drivers of the band bus. We would have sewn drama club costumes and chaperoned the prom. We would have wanted our children to have a shared heritage with their peers, and found that reason enough to do our part for the school.

 

That was possible last generation. In this generation, we watch the children of our neighbors and friends "trying," "doing their best," earning A's after hours and hours of study every night, only to be thoroughly astounded when they are placed in remedial classes at college. Those young people did everything they were told, and were not educated! Nobody bothered to tell them it was vanity. Hardworking high school students are being robbed of their birthright in the public schools of today. That is not the fault of homeschoolers, or private schoolers, or anyone who rejects such insanity for their own children.

 

Those people who are in the business of turning out uneducated graduates year after year can just look in the mirror if they miss the type of people who make public education work. Turning a blind eye to the problems of public school for the greater good is one thing. Looking away entirely from our own child's needs because of some misplaced sense of duty to "support our schools" is quite another. We've had to make a choice. We can support our schools or we can support our children, but an ever-lessening number of people are able to do both.

:iagree:

Perfectly said.

[monk17]

This article seems to fall under the category of here's a hypothesis, we should study it and test it to see if it's true. Several glaring errors occur that have been around since Brown vs the board of education. One of those is that some how having smart kids in a class room raises the standard for the rest of the class. This was at least part of the reason for desegregating schools, at least one that I remember. I'm not an expert in this area but it seems the best results for raising achievement gaps for under income children is intense schooling. No easy solutions for trying to educate a society where low income children are being raised in single parent homes and increasingly all children having at least one parent that is not there biological parent.

 

The complaint about Homeschoolers taking there kids out of school and bankrupting the school system has some merit. It's a funding formula problem. Schools get federal dollars based on seats occupied. When you take homeschoolers out of the school, typically the student that require the least amount of resources and occupy the school with children that need the most help it is a financial strain on the school. The fix is not to force homeschoolers back to school but to fund the schools! That of course is the fix as I see it within the paradigm that our schools/society operate.

 

I'm a liberal by todays standards, actually a moderate republican thirty years agao and homeschool!