Rebecca VA Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Over on the Accelerated Board they're discussing books that have strong female characters. What does that mean? I've always thought that a great many heroines were strong, though in differing ways. Elnora of "Girl of the Limberlost" is certainly strong and wise in a quiet, feminine way. Scarlett O'Hara is strong but foolish. Almost any female heroine that's halfway interesting is strong in some way. If you were making a list of "strong female characters," how would you define that? Bossy? Wise? Long-suffering but with vast reserves of quiet strength? This is especially interesting me right now because my daughter is dealing with a classmate who thinks she (herself) is the cat's pajamas. She bosses and bullies, thinking that makes her a leader. She brags about how smart she is (she's smart, but not noticeably brilliant or even interesting). I'm quite sure she thinks of herself as strong, but everyone else thinks she's obnoxious. When does "strong" cross over into "insufferable"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 :bigear: What an interesting question. The people that pop into my mind immediately would be Ma Ingalls and Josephine March... what characteristics link these two??? I'd say women with self-confidence and spirit, who do what needs to be done, which, depending on the time and place of the plot, may be as basic as getting the laundry done while traveling by covered wagon, or publishing her first book in a male-dominated society. I think like you said, it is rare to find a "weak" femaile character when she is the focus of the plot. But in a book like Pride and Prejudice, Elizabeth is clearly strong, but her younger sisters are weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I don't define strength differently for male or female characters and if looking for a book in which strength was something to emulate, I would define it as the ability to do the right thing, the thing that needs doing. That is not the same as domination or forcefulness, which is a kind of strength, I suppose, but it is the ability to figure out how to get on top and the heck with how you get there. So as a pp referenced Scarlett O'Hara, she was dominant, but foolish, whereas the less dominant Melanie rose to the occasion more than once and had the strength to do the right thing. A man may use physical strength to lift a car off an accident victim or to overpower another human being in a crime. To me, strength is "ability to accomplish" but must be tied to the object: accomplish what? It then becomes a moral category. So I were choosing books with "strong female characters" to read, that would be tied to the question of "What did these women do with their strength?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I don't define strength differently for male or female characters and if looking for a book in which strength was something to emulate, I would define it as the ability to do the right thing, the thing that needs doing. That is not the same as domination or forcefulness, which is a kind of strength, I suppose, but it is the ability to figure out how to get on top and the heck with how you get there. So as a pp referenced Scarlett O'Hara, she was dominant, but foolish, whereas the less dominant Melanie rose to the occasion more than once and had the strength to do the right thing. I think that characterization is a little unfair to Scarlett. She often did what she had to do in order to keep them all *alive* in dire circumstances. Melanie knew it, that is why she never judged Scarlett (maybe even to the point of having a blind-spot). Melanie was of high moral character. But if they had solely been relying on her, then they would never have made it through the war. Scarlett's fault was not being able to adapt from that life to her life after the war, IMO. A good candidate for a weak character would be Ashley. He relies on Scarlett's money and Melanie's character to keep him safe in every circumstance. Edited February 18, 2012 by Mrs Mungo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingiguana Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I think it's a character who is actually there, rather than one which is just part of the wall paper. It doesn't have to be a character one wants to emulate, but certainly one with motivations. If all the female characters a girl ever sees are good and wonderful, will literature be of any help to her in living her own life -- where she likely isn't going to be good and wonderful all the time? Also, wholly good characters are just plain boring. They might as well just be wall paper if they have no internal conflict. Readers tend not to notice them much. I'm thinking here of Watership Down. My daughters added up the total number of lines said by a female in the entire book. They were completely appalled. Apparently, the females were only there to motivate the males. They were only made to speak when they absolutely had to. It's one thing to have a book of entirely male characters, if it makes sense that no females would be in that situation. It's quite another to have a book where the females play a central role, without which the plot wouldn't even work, and then to give them no lines or internal motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 It's one thing to have a book of entirely male characters, if it makes sense that no females would be in that situation. It's quite another to have a book where the females play a central role, without which the plot wouldn't even work, and then to give them no lines or internal motivation. I think you can have strong female characters in books that are dominated by male characters. One example is the mother in Grapes of Wrath. She is really in the background, the main action is centered around the male characters - but she is the quiet and constant presence and works hard to keep the family together. I do consider her a strong character in a moral sense, even if she may not be in a literature sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'd say women with self-confidence and spirit, who do what needs to be done, which, depending on the time and place of the plot, may be as basic as getting the laundry done while traveling by covered wagon, or publishing her first book in a male-dominated society. I like this definition. For me, a strong female character is one who has poise, self-confidence, determination. Calpurnia in To Kill a Mockingbird is a strong female. She is not the main character, and her role is limited by her status, but she does what is necessary. I actually consider Scarlett o'Hara a strong character as well. True, she starts out as a teenager preoccupied by boys and dances and clothes, but undergoes a remarkable development in the face of adversity. She gets things done. I don't have to like all her actions, and I don't have to consider all her choices morally sound (she is lying, and not really interested in her kids)- but she does what she has to do for her family's survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Great ideas...anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Someone who has deeply held moral convictions and will not compromise even under extreme pressure and against her own personal desires. Jane Eyre is such a character imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If you were making a list of "strong female characters," how would you define that? Bossy? Wise? Long-suffering but with vast reserves of quiet strength? I tend to think of strong female characters (or male ones, for that matter) as having good character. Strong women and men with qualities that I'd like my children to emulate. Scarlett O'Hara? Strong-willed, maybe, but her impetuosity and headstrong nature are weaknesses, not strengths. This is especially interesting me right now because my daughter is dealing with a classmate who thinks she (herself) is the cat's pajamas. She bosses and bullies, thinking that makes her a leader. She brags about how smart she is (she's smart, but not noticeably brilliant or even interesting). I'm quite sure she thinks of herself as strong, but everyone else thinks she's obnoxious. When does "strong" cross over into "insufferable"? Too bad she's not in a novel where she'd get her just desserts. :D In a real-life young person, I'd just chalk it up to being young and, at heart, insecure. Hopefully, the adults in her life and her life experiences will eventually hone her strengths and shape her character so that she uses her powers for the forces of good rather than pettiness and control. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Harry Potter is full of strong women: Professor McGonagall, Mrs. Weasley, Hermione, Ginny, Luna, Lily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 A woman who is smart enough to know what needs to be done, and goes and does it without waiting for permission or for someone to do it for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) This is especially interesting me right now because my daughter is dealing with a classmate who thinks she (herself) is the cat's pajamas. She bosses and bullies, thinking that makes her a leader. She brags about how smart she is (she's smart, but not noticeably brilliant or even interesting). I'm quite sure she thinks of herself as strong, but everyone else thinks she's obnoxious. When does "strong" cross over into "insufferable"? that sounds more like "terribly insecure" and "must proclaim wonderfullness to all in earshot to convince one's self." or as shakespeare would say ' the lady doth protest (proclaim) too much." (iow: deep down within herself, she does not consider herself strong) eta: the girl you mention I consider "weak", no matter the persona she wishes to convey. I consider strong someone who does NOT need to "proclaim to all and sundry" their wonderfulness. They have confidence and can stand for their convictions in a matter-of-fact way. the strong do not need to proclaim they are strong -they just "are". they do not tear others down thinking it strengthens them (that's what bullies do) - they build other's up. at heart - bullies are cowards. Edited February 19, 2012 by gardenmom5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Someone who is wise and lives her life accordingly, no matter what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Bella Swan is not a strong female character. Elizabeth Swann of Pirates of the Caribbean is strong (I know, movie, but fitting). Caddie Woodlawn is a strong female character, as is Kit Tyler (Witch of Blackbird Pond). Annabeth of Percy Jackson fame is a strong female character. Fearless determination? Feminine poise with backbone? If they needed a hole in a wall they'd reach for a drill themselves, not the hand of the nearest male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) obviously physical strength can differ. But I associate strength of character with courage, tenacity, confidence, mental toughness, honor, and self reliance - for men or for women. How those things get displayed can differ, but those are the essential qualities of strength, I think, whether masculine or feminines. Edited February 19, 2012 by Danestress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Woman in White Wilke Collins - one weak female character. Dickens had some weak female characters - women that whose life and happiness were at the whims of fathers, brothers, husbands, guardians etc. Cranford - the one older sister played by Judy Dench is probably considered weak. I think Austen and the Bronte show both strong and weak female characters. Often the protagonist is strong, but surround be weak characters for contrast. Also must overcome obstacles that would sink a weak character - fate, birth, unfortunate or missing mother, ill-fated marriage proposals, etc. Edith Wharton had some interesting weak female characters. Edited February 19, 2012 by OrganicAnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If you are purely talking about a strong literary character (as opposed to an actual person who might be described as 'strong') it is a character that exists in the storyline as a complete person. Not defined as x's wife or y's love interest or z's mortal enemy. The character might be a wife, love interest or enemy. They are the character the story is talking about, not the characters used as examples to show who the main character is. If a female (or male) character dies dramatically in the early parts of the story and is used as the other character's motivation for the rest of the plot, they are a plot device not a true character of their own. If the female lead in the story develops the plot and moves the action independently, she can be brave, weak, stupid, brilliant, silly whatever as long as the story is about her. She is a strong character. Many books theoretically have a female co-lead. (Think Harry, Ron and Hermione). Rowling did a good job giving Hermione her own part of the story line, she could just as easily been there only as a plot device to feed Harry facts whenever he needed to learn something. Hermione is a strong character, Ginny not so much. As far as I could tell (your mileage may vary) Ginny only served to be a 'Wizard Home Life Ideal For Harry To Yearn For'. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeslieAnneLevine Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I see a lot of strong female characters in the books my son likes. The Sisters Grimm series, Animorphs (I love that it rotates so each character gets turns at a first-person narrative), A Series of Unfortunate Events, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson/Heroes of Olympus, Dragon Slayers Academy, The Kane Chronicles, Land of Elyon, Septimus Heap... And it's rare I see a female character being depicted as strong in a patronizing/unrealisitic way (provided you maintain a certain suspension of disbelief for all characters). I think if the strong female character is just as developed and believable as the male character, then the author has done a good job. The female character can (and should) remain distinctly female (I don't mean ladylike or feminine, but female in whatever way makes sense for that character--this is harder to try to explain than I thought it would be!)-- it's not about making her seem more masculine. There have been strong, independent-minded women all throughout history, so an author should have plenty of real-life examples on which to base his or her strong female characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If you are purely talking about a strong literary character (as opposed to an actual person who might be described as 'strong') it is a character that exists in the storyline as a complete person. Not defined as x's wife or y's love interest or z's mortal enemy. The character might be a wife, love interest or enemy. They are the character the story is talking about, not the characters used as examples to show who the main character is. Yes, this is along the lines of what I was thinking. I would say a "strong female character" in a book is a girl or woman who has her own aims and her own character development arc. She changes over the course of the story. She acts on the plot rather than being a passive person that the plot happens to. She is not in the story to be a reward for a male character or to be an embodiment of some good quality. I think the lazy way that writers try to portray a "strong female character" is by giving her a smart mouth or a hot temper. I get tired of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Yes, this is along the lines of what I was thinking. I would say a "strong female character" in a book is a girl or woman who has her own aims and her own character development arc. She changes over the course of the story. She acts on the plot rather than being a passive person that the plot happens to. She is not in the story to be a reward for a male character or to be an embodiment of some good quality. I think the lazy way that writers try to portray a "strong female character" is by giving her a smart mouth or a hot temper. I get tired of that.[/QUOTE] yes yes yes...also annoying is when the writer tells us over and over how strong she is but we never her see her doing anything of importance to the story line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimtaxi234 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 As a teenager, the first "strong woman" that I remember reading that made me take notice was Elizabeth Bennet in "Pride and Prejudice". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 <snip>Many books theoretically have a female co-lead. (Think Harry, Ron and Hermione). Rowling did a good job giving Hermione her own part of the story line, she could just as easily been there only as a plot device to feed Harry facts whenever he needed to learn something. Hermione is a strong character, Ginny not so much. As far as I could tell (your mileage may vary) Ginny only served to be a 'Wizard Home Life Ideal For Harry To Yearn For'. Hope this helps Hmm, I don't know about that. We know that she survived six older brothers, *g*, and that she taught herself to play Quidditch by sneaking their brooms out of the shed when they wouldn't let her join in. She stands up to Draco Malfoy, even as a first year, and is quick to defend others, like Luna Lovegood and Neville Longbottom. She defies authority to do what's right, she's brave in battle, and she helps to restart Dumbledore's Army when Harry, Ron, and Hermione are gone. Ginny was not a main character, and she doesn't always stand out in a series full of numerous strong and flamboyant characters, but I would definitely consider her a strong character who served an active role in the fight against Voldemort. I do think it's much clearer in the books than in the movies. Why, no, I'm not overly invested in fictional characters, why do you ask? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I think of strong female characters as those that are not just simple, stereotypical foils for the male characters. For me it's not so much an issue of a character's specific traits, it's more---is she like a real person would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hmm, I don't know about that. We know that she survived six older brothers, *g*, and that she taught herself to play Quidditch by sneaking their brooms out of the shed when they wouldn't let her join in. She stands up to Draco Malfoy, even as a first year, and is quick to defend others, like Luna Lovegood and Neville Longbottom. She defies authority to do what's right, she's brave in battle, and she helps to restart Dumbledore's Army when Harry, Ron, and Hermione are gone. Ginny was not a main character, and she doesn't always stand out in a series full of numerous strong and flamboyant characters, but I would definitely consider her a strong character who served an active role in the fight against Voldemort. I do think it's much clearer in the books than in the movies. Why, no, I'm not overly invested in fictional characters, why do you ask? :D Ha... I understand being overly invested in the characters. I loved Snape from book 3 on and thought the story line was really about him. :lol: Ginny is a strong personality and strong woman but as a character in the story, IMO :001_smile:, she only serves to move the plot lines for the main characters. ie. Ron's Sister in Peril (book 2)...Indignent Mainstream Pureblood Wizard Annoyed with Death Eaters...Harry's Love Interest To be Pined For. Probably in any other series this would make her a main character but with so many other stronger storylines...:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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