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Skype: like watching a DVD, or like a phone call?


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My ex and I split custody of our boys exactly in half. He has them for a week starting at 9 am on Monday, then next Monday he brings them back for my week, and so on.

 

Last night I set up Skype so that I can speak to them each night and read a chapter of our current read-aloud (a fifteen minute thing). Because the kids were excited and Skyped me as soon as I sent a notice that I had my account set up, I saw that they were still up at 10, hadn't had dinner yet, the house is getting full of stuff again (ex is a hoarder) and the youngest boy's long curly hair hadn't been brushed or otherwise dealt with all day.

 

This morning I got a message from my ex saying that Skype is a major event like watching a DVD, and "I would like you to honor that our time together is ours".

 

Our custody order says that "each parent shall be entitled to reasonable phone contact with his or her children. As a general rule that would mean a parent may call once per day at convenient hour, usually after dinner and before bedtime. The child shall be permitted to call at the child's discretion."

 

What do you think? Is it more like watching a movie or something and an intrusion into their time? Or is it more like that nightly phone call?

 

For the record, he doesn't read aloud to them at bedtime. He's dyslexic and has a hard time with it. So I'm not replacing something they'd be doing together otherwise. They don't in fact have a bedtime routine at his house. They play video games until they drop.

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I hate to say this, having BTDT, but this is one of those icky things that come along with divorce and shared parenting. Dad can make it difficult, and as long as he's meeting the minimum requirements of the agreement, not much can be done.

 

Is it possible for your oldest to read to the youngers? Maybe create a little bonding between siblings that way?

 

Best of luck to you. Shared parenting is not fun.

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I don't think it's unreasonable for you to want to talk to them and see them every day, but I don't think his request for you to respect their time together is unreasonable either. Doing a read-aloud with them each night doesn't sound like an everyday phone call to me. Maybe you could still do a daily Skype call but limit the time to only a few minutes? And if it's only going to make you upset to see them and know that he parents differently than you do, I might stick to just phone calls.

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It depends upon how you use it. It's like a phone call if you treat it like a phone call. It you are wanting to use it for more, like reading a bedtime story to them, then it's more. I can see how it would also feel intrusive, because you can "see" everything, unless he sets it up in an unobtrusive corner where you can't see the room.

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I would be fine with it but my ex would not be. He doesn't like that the kids talk to me at all when they are with him and tries to limit them to about 5 minutes (doesn't work, they phone me right back after he walks away). If you have always read to them over the phone at night etc then the skype completely replaces that, it is just a different modality. When my kids are at their dads they phone me in the am to say good morning and tell me of the plans for the day. They phone me at night to recap the day. I spend around 30 minutes per child on the phone at night with them. And then they often phone me around midday just to check in.

 

It sounds to me like your ex is less worried about the intrusion into his time with them and more worried about the fact that you can now see the details of neglect going on. (clutter piling up, no dinner, unbrushed hair).

 

I think the skype sticks to the agreement, and as long as you are keeping it open when the boys are at your house for him to use to speak to them at night I see no problem with it personally.

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I think I would find it intrusive.

 

I'm sorry, Rose. I know why you want to do it, and I would too, but I think you're pushing the boundary.

 

:iagree:

 

A phone call is reasonable to me. When it's a video thing I would feel like I am being checked up on. The read aloud thing seems intrusive to me - kind of an "I'm a better parent than you because I read to the kids and I want to make a point of it." thing. I know that may not be your intention - but that's what it would feel like to me. When they are with him, within the minimum of your agreement, he's the parent and gets to make the calls. It stinks. My heart aches for you.

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The read aloud thing seems intrusive to me - kind of an "I'm a better parent than you because I read to the kids and I want to make a point of it." thing.

 

That's totally not how I feel, although I suppose he may be taking it that way regardless. I don't want the read-aloud to be a regular thing, but this book is taking us forever and the kids were asking to stay home from their dad's this week so we could finish it. (Yeah, they don't much want to go.) Our nightly phone calls, when they happen, usually last about 15 minutes per kid for each of the big kids and twenty for the youngest. A chapter or segment of Leven Thumps and Foo typically takes ten minutes (which makes it all the more ridiculous that we didn't just finish it up in one day here last week, but the days conspire against read-alouds). Skype has been time-saving since I can talk to all three boys at once.

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I don't know how open your ex is to working things like this out with a compromise, but what about this?

Use Skype, but turn off the camera on their end. That way they can see you as you are reading the story, but from your side it's just like a phone call and you wouldn't be "spying" on his house. Maybe he would be more open to doing it that way, especially if you point out that it reduces the total time of the nightly phone call.

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Would you want his face and voice in your house every night that you have the kids? He's probably afraid you'll use the visual feedback to judge him, and he'd be correct. It wasn't JUST about speaking to your kids anymore, was it?If it was the SAME as a phone call, you'd just make a phone call and avoid the argument.

 

Just do double story time when you do have them.

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I'm not really commenting on your situation, but this is what happened to me;

 

My parents divorced when I was 5 years old. My father had custody, but never once limited me from seeing or taking with my mother (including never once complaining about $800 long distance phone bills!). However, any time I spent with my mother, she insisted it was "her time." She didn't let me call my father, see him, etc.

 

I think my father did the right thing all the way. Anytime I got mad at him and wanted to live with my mother, he had on a plane within the month. And he was always there to bring me back home every single time.

 

My father never told me that my mother prevented us from talking when I was with her. And he never put her down.

 

On my own, I started realizing that she had a mental illness and was very unstable. I have my own opinions of her and they were never influenced by my father (who still doesn't say anything bad about her).

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I'm a divorced parent and would have no problem with it. I guess i'm lucky that my ex and I have always put our son first. If he wanted to skype with me my dh would totally allow it. And I would too. NO big deal, if it is for say 15 minutes or whatever. I think keeping that connection is a good thing.

 

I think people should realize it isn't about my time or his time, it is about the kids.

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Would you want his face and voice in your house every night that you have the kids? He's probably afraid you'll use the visual feedback to judge him, and he'd be correct. It wasn't JUST about speaking to your kids anymore, was it?If it was the SAME as a phone call, you'd just make a phone call and avoid the argument.

 

Actually, for a very long time my ex did Skype in to the house to speak to the kids and that was fine with me and still would be.

 

The real reason to Skype is that we are all a bunch of phone avoidant dweebs who find it hard to read what a person is saying if we can't see their face. None of us really like the phone.

 

I think he was glad the kids hated coming to the phone because it kept him from having to give up time for me, and that gave him the illusion that they hated me. Now that they want to communicate with me and it will probably really be nightly, he is upset.

Edited by dragons in the flower bed
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Oh wow! I would bring all that info to court. I would battle for custody after that. I would record everything. I would contact a guardian ad litem or whatever services available to you, social services etc. Not feeding children is called neglect/abuse.

 

I don't want to cut off their relationship with their dad. That would be more harmful than an occasional very late dinner.

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The real reason to Skype is that we are all a bunch of phone avoidant dweebs who find it hard to read what a person is saying if we can't see their face. None of us really like the phone.

.

 

I totally get this. Skype has been WONDERFUL with my college age daughter. She always sounds like she's crying on the phone !! But being able to see her facial expressions is fabulous.

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Questions: did you mention any of the items you have in your post to him or them? How many would you have heard about anyway on a phone call? And does he allow nightly phone calls? Did or would the Skype thing go longer than a call? Would you be allowed to read the book over the phone?

 

Next, why not say to him, let's try this out for X weeks and then make a decision, I'd like you to be able to call Skype when they are here, too? I know they'd love to see your face.

 

Even if he turns you down, I'd consider offering him the ability to use Skype for your week. I think his ability to do that might sell him on allowing you to use it (but I don't know him). Don't say anything to the kids one way or the other. IF it becomes clear that he will never allow you to Skype to his house and you feel unhappy with him getting to use it and not you then after a solid period of time (I'm thinking half a year) then you can discontinue the service and say something along the lines of you never used it so you uninstalled it.

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Also, I think partly the issue is that Skype happens via the kids' own iPad. Essentially they have the power now to contact me whenever they want. Even though our custody order says they have to be allowed to do that, limiting them to phone kept them from wanting to do so, and limiting them to their dad's house phone meant that he always knew and had to give permission when they wanted to call. A few weeks ago my middle son asked me to call every day even if he didn't want to talk, to give him the option to refuse, just because, "What if Dad doesn't let us call you?"

 

But when we do have calls, they are already always on speaker phone. We just don't do well with headset technology, for whatever reason.

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We moved far away from away from everyone and use Skype, it is just like a phone call to us except it gets accomplished faster since we don't have to pass a phone around and do one person at a time. Skype isn't anything like a dvd to me, it is just a video call like you can do on tons of phones except on the computer

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did you mention any of the items you have in your post to him or them?

 

No, I didn't say a word about any of those things -- the hair, the meal, the up past bedtime, or the clutter -- to the boys. I never ever badmouth him to the kids. My mom did that to me about my dad and I hated her for it. I didn't mention it to him either.

 

 

How many would you have heard about anyway on a phone call?

 

Well. I sent a contact request to their Skype account at 9pm. They wouldn't have noticed if they hadn't been awake and playing on their iPad. So it doesn't really equate in that sense.

 

The hair, clutter, not being fed til 10pm, I would have heard about anyway because we talk about everything.

 

And does he allow nightly phone calls?

 

I don't know if he would if it wasn't required by our court order, but he knows I will take him back to court under violation if he doesn't allow it.

 

 

Did or would the Skype thing go longer than a call?

 

It goes faster because I can talk to all three kids at once and because there's much much much less, "What did you say? Is there something in your mouth?" and, "Are you paying attention to the phone or watching TV? Did you hear what I just said?"

 

Would you be allowed to read the book over the phone?

 

I don't know.

 

Next, why not say to him, let's try this out for X weeks and then make a decision, I'd like you to be able to call Skype when they are here, too? I know they'd love to see your face.

 

That's a good idea. I try to take the tactic of making things exceedingly fair, being generous, etc.

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I totally get this. Skype has been WONDERFUL with my college age daughter. She always sounds like she's crying on the phone !! But being able to see her facial expressions is fabulous.

 

My youngest son in particular, the one who most wants to spend ages on the phone with his mom every night anyway, had most of his teeth removed a couple of years ago because of rotting (due to fetal malnutrition which was due to premature disconnection of the placenta). It is tricky to understand what he's saying if I can't see his face. Sometimes it's tricky to make out what he's saying if I can see his face. If he says one new word in isolation I'm hosed. It's all context clues and previous experience with his adaptations.

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:grouphug: BTDT with the week on/week off custody arrangement. We did it from Friday to Friday so each of us would have a fun weekend and a work/daycare week. It was hard to go a whole week knowing my ex did things differently than I did. But he had as much right per our custody agreement to parent our dd that I did. I didn't even have the daily phone call because she was so young. We split up when she was 18 months old. We did week on/week off until she was Kindergarten age and then things went downhill from there, but that is irrelevant to this post.

 

If it was my ex trying to do the skype thing, I would have been upset. It's definitely more than a few minutes checking in. Also, the only way to truly enforce the agreement is to go back to the lawyers because the two of you cannot be objective on the matter. So you need to decide if it's worth that to you to set up a specific communication arrangement. That custody thing was so not fun.

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I use Skype like a phone call, and I enjoy the video capability. You can also use Skype *without* the video as well, and then it *IS* the same as a phone call. I don't think Skyping with video is any more intrusive than a phone call. I would feel this way even more if the Skyping was happening over iPads or smartphones instead of over computers, as you see less of what's around the other person.

 

:grouphug: I hope this works out for you.

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I think that the Skype call is okay, but not for doing a read-aloud. I Skype with my brother and his family a couple of times a month. Skype is... overly involved... sometimes. It isn't always working properly. The connection (either video or voice) will lag or drop and then you both have to fumble about with "are you there? did it drop again?" When the voice connection is fumbly you get missing words and have to ask to repeat. I find it really is an event, because I've got to collect my family together to huddle in front of the laptop, and he has to do the same. It really is more involved than a simple phone call.

 

I think it would be fair use for a quick good-night and catch-up call, but not for the night-time reading. Sorry, Rose. I am just thinking about all I would need to do on my end of a Skype to make that happen and it really would be a small production to get everything arranged and then try to get through the call hoping it works well this time.

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I am just thinking about all I would need to do on my end of a Skype to make that happen and it really would be a small production to get everything arranged and then try to get through the call hoping it works well this time.

 

It is thankfully not that fumbly for me. It had been with other connections, but my iMac at home to the kids' iPad at their dad's house has been perfectly smooth. If it was a pain, I wouldn't want to use it either.

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It is thankfully not that fumbly for me. It had been with other connections, but my iMac at home to the kids' iPad at their dad's house has been perfectly smooth. If it was a pain, I wouldn't want to use it either.

 

I've read the thread and with all the very valid reasons you've listed for why you want to use Skype, I think asking him to allow a trial period (a month?) where you both use it as your nightly contact is a fair request, if he's the type who is open to fair.

 

I think he might be upset, though, because on his end, it takes all 3 boys away from him at once (and interferes with dinner, bedtime, etc. if he is trying to get to that at that time) rather than one boy at a time as with the phone. So even though on your end it's shorter, and on his end, now he has all 3 of them "gone" (paying attention to you) at once, which might be what makes it feel like them all watching a DVD or something.

 

Just thinking out loud; I obviously could be way off base.

 

Maybe when you mention it, let him know that one of the reasons you liked it was that it allowed you to speak to all 3 boys at once and thus you felt it less intrusive to his time, but that you'd be willing to talk to them each in turn if he prefers it that way?

 

Maybe even offer that you could call the house phone to make sure this is a good time to Skype and then skype them once he says okay to the call at that point?

 

for us, it is more enjoyable than a regular phone call, so I do get his point there, though I wouldn't equate it to DVD watching. I guess he feels it is like you coming over for a visit, since the visual is there and all?

 

What a tricky situation. :grouphug:

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It is thankfully not that fumbly for me. It had been with other connections, but my iMac at home to the kids' iPad at their dad's house has been perfectly smooth. If it was a pain, I wouldn't want to use it either.

 

And FaceTime is even easier, in my opinion :)

I think that asking might get you further. "I'd like to read to the kids each night, instead of just talk to them. Would that work for you?" Probably he was caught off guard and thought it a bit "sneaky" even though you didn't mean it that way. It's one of those things where technology when court orders were drawn up, leave us a bit behind :(

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Rose thanks for so patiently answering my questions. I think your answer about him feeling it was sneaky or out of his control actually helped me understand the situation better.

 

I think you can trying offering him the trial and try to reinforce you did not mean to go behind his back.

 

I also think you can give some thought to when your oldest gets a cell phone. A lot of 11 year old children in PS already have them.

 

I also agree with others that you are a wonderful mom for working this hard to preserve this relationship for your children.

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(Former divorce attorney here...so I have seen the custody issues from all sides.)

 

Kudos to you for coming up with a parenting plan that gives both parents great amount of access to the kids. It couldn't have been easy, but I think it is just great.

 

I agree that maybe recording the read alouds to be read at night might be a good idea (You can put it on ipods and dad won't even have to hear it.)

 

I think the Skype is a bad idea. It is really very similar to you dropping by every night to do a check on the kids (house a mess, up too late, hair not combed, etc, etc.) No one would like this.

 

:grouphug: Because I know this can't be easy but you are doing a great job, mom!

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Thanks for your feedback, everyone. When I pressed for his reasons to not allow it, he admitted that it was just hard for him to hear my voice on Valentine's Day. It looks like he is going to let the kids Skype with me for a bedtime call.

 

:grouphug: That's great. Just enjoy them. The rest you can fix during your week. ;)

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