So how do you determine that a child is gifted?

[CatholicMom]

I assume you get an evaluation? (By who?)

 

What are things to look for? (i.e. What traits merit an evaluation?)

 

Just curious.

[Crimson Wife]

Deborah Ruf has a book called The 5 Levels of Gifted that is a good starting point.

 

A psychologist would be the one to administer formal IQ and achievement testing, but it's pricey ($500+ per test).

 

You can give above-level achievement and cognitive abilities testing at home for relatively cheap that will give you a sense of where your child is. The downside is that because you administer it yourself, the results won't be accepted by GATE programs that require an IQ test like Davidson by themselves. Now you could use them to have your child qualify to take a talent search test like the EXPLORE, and then submit the talent search scores.

[2smartones]

As she said, there are a lot of ways. It depends why you need to know. If it's to satisfy your own curiosity, you could read Ruf's book or get an IQ test "off the record" done by a grad student or something at a university. Neither would be completely accurate, possibly, but they'd satisfy your curiosity anyway. If you need the scores to qualify for a program such as Davidson, you'll need to prove giftedness in at least 2 ways, and that gets expensive very quickly. Our testing (WISC & WJ) cost around $2200. If tested for diagnostic purposes (like ADHD or learning disabilities) rather than academic purposes (like giftedness), some insurance companies will cover part or all of the testing fees. (BCBS is one I know that considers it in some cases. We don't have BCBS, so I can't speak of their policies about it.)

[Riverland]

Mine were tested in kindergarten by the public school district and then were accepted into their gifted program. It was not an IQ test, but something similar.

[Dmmetler]

My first thought is-if you can be on this board and feel like you belong, your child probably is! I'd say the difference between "Hey, someone actually understands" and "Uh, these parents HAVE to be making this up!" is probably at least as indicative as Ruf's book.

[2smartones]

:iagree:

[2smartones]

What are things to look for? (i.e. What traits merit an evaluation?)

 

In response to that question specifically, look at this:

 

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/What_is_Gifted/characgt.htm

[Crimson Wife]

My first thought is-if you can be on this board and feel like you belong, your child probably is! I'd say the difference between "Hey, someone actually understands" and "Uh, these parents HAVE to be making this up!" is probably at least as indicative as Ruf's book.

 

True, but unfortunately outsiders tend to often dismiss parental instinct as wishful thinking. Having objective evidence can really help cut through the automatic dismissal as one of those "pushy parents". :rolleyes: You can tell the "everyone evens out by 3rd grade" folks, that no, your particular child is NOT going to even out.

[Staceyshoe]

We started ds in ps kindergarten at age 4 so the school system provided a free evaluation (IQ test, achievement test, and social assessment) . The evaluation didn't provide an accurate IQ--just a "yes/no" qualification for gifted programming. (For clarification, the IQ test our school system uses is not accurate above 130 and 130 is the qualifying criteria for gifted programming. It would have given an accurate score if it was below 130.) Later we saw a private psychologist who specializes in giftedness to determine "how" gifted ds was.

 

ETA: FWIW, the school system's attitude toward us changed 180 degrees after testing. They were rude and difficult beforehand and super nice after they had the scores in hand. Assessment results make a huge difference for some folks, as Crimson Wife mentioned.

[aly9712]

DD is now 7, however we had a full workup done at 5 at the local university. We were primarily concerned with anxiety at the time, but upon meeting her the doctors decided to do the WPPSI (as well all the social testing) to look at IQ.

[Ester Maria]

You can tell the "everyone evens out by 3rd grade" folks, that no, your particular child is NOT going to even out.

I find it a good tactic to wave your hand and pass the bean dip, continue doing your own thing with your peace of mind, and let the actions speak volumes when your child does not even out and it becomes obvious. That makes those folks chill more than any "proof" you might have, achievement is the best proof. ;)

 

OP: Personally, we did not take the evaluation route because I could have cared less about the numbers, and I did not need those scores to qualify for any program (that might be my only real motivation to get an evaluation). I never regretted it. Especially in a homeschooling setting, when you can do your own thing and meet the kid where they are.

[2smartones]

Out of curiosity, because you only have 4 posts, I went to your profile to see what else you'd posted in case that would have any bearing on how I answered this post. It did... I saw that you mentioned dyslexia in another post. You should get a copy of this: http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Dyslexia-Revised-Expanded-Read/dp/0399535667/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328930856&sr=8-1

[CatholicMom]

Yep, I'm a newb on this board. :)

 

I find myself in a strange position this year because I have one son (we'll call him Bubs - 8 yrs old) who almost certainly has some degree of dyslexia or something similar... and his younger brother Zay (7 yrs old) who seems to learn very easily, is "reading on a mid-4th grade level" (LOL! I always hated when people said that, but you all understand), and who I've noticed frequently complains about how "easy" and "boring" math is. I also have 3 younger kids and have honestly just been trying to get through school with my head above water and that's about it.

 

For a while Zay has been very interested in reading EVERYthing... not necessarily long books, but emails over my shoulder (lol), signs, headlines, labels, etc, etc. He also spells constantly (I call him "spelling man"). I mean, for instance, "C-a-n I h-a-v-e s-o-m-e c-a-n-d-y?" LOL I say, jokingly, "y-e-s." He says, "N-o-w?" Lol. It's just one of his little "things" he does and I never thought much about it. But I have been thinking more recently about how Zay seems to be bent on improving his own skills just because he enjoys it (spelling like I described, reading everything he sees without my prompting, and he also loves to write notes constantly).

 

And, like I said, I have NOT been pushing with school since I have a lot of stuff on my plate and have just been trying to get through. Zay (and Bubs both) were reading Grade 2 Sonlight Readers. I noticed they were easy for Zay but just thought, eh, we'll finish them and move on to the next when he's done. So to figure out which leveled Reader package to buy next, I had Zay take the quick reading assessment and was like HUH?! It recommended Core E Readers, I believe. I was thinking, "what does that mean?! What happened to 3rd grade?" lol Then I had him take 4 other reading assessments online and they all gave surprisingly consistent results, saying mid-4th grade to beginning 5th grade. Now I don't know if that's really that big of a deal, but I was surprised (AND felt better about Bubs not reading nearly as good as Zay because this meant Zay was NOT reading on a 2nd/3rd grade level and Bubs was *below that*, like I feared).

 

This is turning out really long... doh... anyway, I've also noticed that Zay picks up on math concepts almost effortlessly but previously chalked it up to my teaching the concepts only the year before to his brother, so maybe I was explaining it better. He's not "accelerated" at all because I'm the opposite of pushy and don't want to go too fast / put pressure / probably didn't pay enough attention!

 

The weirdest thing that just makes me wonder lately about giftedness regarding Zay (though honestly I feel a little silly because I could be way off-base!) is that he has been coming to me all upset about SOMETHING every single day. Sometimes he worries that he has a secret he needs to tell me and he is all emotional about it (and usually it's NOT a big deal), and he is constantly asking me deep questions about God and Christianity. (I have GOT to get on the ball and get this kid a book on apologetics or something.) He gets very emotional, seems to constantly be thinking about good and evil, has a super sensitive conscience, and asks me questions that I find a little surprising (e.g. "How do we know we can trust what the Bible says? Who wrote it? etc.). I don't know, is that normal for a 7 year old? The frequency lately is the weirdest thing to me... I'm not saying now and then he asks this stuff, I'm talking every. single. day. Never when daddy is home, of course, so I told him to write down ALL his questions and we will soon go over all of them with daddy to get him the answers to his satisfaction.

 

Zay also has been telling me he gets something in his head (images he finds disturbing) that won't go away sometimes. Again, he gets upset about it, sometimes won't tell me until I pry a little and tell him it's fine, etc. Multiple times a week. ALL of this usually happens in the evening for some reason so I have chalked it up to getting tired and his wheels turning too much. But it's happening so much now I have actually started to worry lately about his mind and whether he's OK.

 

ANYway, now with the new information that he's reading so well despite my not putting any effort into it at ALL, plus he generally learns pretty easily, etc, I have just started to wonder (as in only less than 10 days) whether all his emotional turmoil could have something to do with his mind needing some more "food" and something for his wheels to turn about, otherwise maybe his wheels will turn too much about deep things?

 

I really don't know, he might just be a bright, emotional kid. I don't need testing to enter some program because I would want to continue homeschooling but I just want to know how to understand him and teach him. If he needs to be challenged more, I want to do it. I find myself wondering if I offered him more higher-level books, and let him go a lot faster in math, what he could do.

 

BUBS (8 yrs old), on the other hand, is opposite of his brother in so many ways, though they are BEST buds. I'm looking into getting vision testing for him and a dyslexia evaluation so, again, I can maximize on the way he learns and teach him appropriately. He has a hard time with reading because of the suspected-dyslexia, and seems talented in creative things like visual arts and music (though I haven't given him any formal music, really - I'm such a terrible mother! :001_unsure:). But I don't know about "gifted."

 

Umm, longest post ever. Sorry. :tongue_smilie:

 

If anyone has comments on what I should think / do about Zay (or Bubs), I'm :bigear:.

 

Tara

[2smartones]

Personally, I think testing would be appropriate for both. I'd start with the one who is struggling, with the hopes that insurance would cover it. Then, if a problem is found, you'll have genetic link grounds (presumably) to test the non-struggler. Both sound gifted to me, but there's a wide range of giftedness and skills that can be considered gifted. That's where testing comes in. There's a big, huge, enormous difference between encouraging/challenging and just plain pushing. Pushing is never the right answer, because it only causes frustration and kills the desire to learn. Encouraging/challenging does the opposite. You can't properly challenge a child if you don't know where to meet them. On the same line, if you DON'T challenge a gifted learner, you'll kill the spark to learn just like you would with pushing.

[serendipitous journey]

I find it a good tactic to wave your hand and pass the bean dip, continue doing your own thing with your peace of mind, and let the actions speak volumes when your child does not even out and it becomes obvious. That makes those folks chill more than any "proof" you might have, achievement is the best proof. ;)

 

OP: Personally, we did not take the evaluation route because I could have cared less about the numbers, and I did not need those scores to qualify for any program (that might be my only real motivation to get an evaluation). I never regretted it. Especially in a homeschooling setting, when you can do your own thing and meet the kid where they are.

 

:iagree: under Certain Circumstances.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine that EsterMaria is confident of her own "giftedness", tested or not, and I believe that she is fairly well educated.

(ETA: That may read as being snippy -- I just mean that I think you, EsterMaria, are probably comfortable moving in a gifted milieu and in assessing your children informally, as well as having an idea of what educating them well entails even if they are quite gifted.) Similarly, DH and I both have high tested IQs b/c of placement for PS programs when we were children and we have a lot of education; DH's esp. was excellent. We also know a lot of "gifted" academic folks b/c of DH's work, and so for many reasons feel confident in our general pegging of the little ones. But we do not live in a milieu where it really comes up; nobody challenges us on it; we are extremely comfortable with the world of psychology and testing; we feel confident in making educational choices for gifted little ones; and we believe the children have no need of it right now. Also Button ends up associating with several "gifted" children so loneliness is less of an issue for us than it might be in other places.

 

It seems like many posters have a different background and also a different culture they are moving in, which may make having a score useful to their own thinking and/or to dealing with others. If you can afford a test and you think it will ease your path, why not.

 

-- have to do dishes!

Edited February 14, 2012 by serendipitous journey

[psychmom]

It sounds like you have a very interesting kiddo! (I'm a sucker for the sensitive types...) I don't think there is one way to determine if he is gifted. Yes, you could get an evaluation and you would most likely get some useful information from it. But it's not absolutely necessary. I've learned as much about giftedness from reading and my own research than I ever learned from looking at a set of test scores (and I do testing for a living!).

 

However, if you suspect dyslexia in your older son, I would recommend an evaluation because it would give you a clearer picture of his strengths and weaknesses, along with maybe qualifying for special services (some of which might be useful even if you homeschool). Oh, and keep reading this forum. You'll find lots of useful info, links, etc. Good luck!

[serendipitous journey]

First, to the OP, it sounds like you have your hands full! The children are fortunate to have a mama working as hard as you clearly are to make sure they are thriving. So :grouphug:.

 

I have no experience with dyslexia, but some with other learning challenges; the previous posters have given excellent advice to have Bubs tested so that you can best meet his needs.

 

Also echoing previous posters that the IQ testing for Zay doesn't seem urgent to me. He is clearly very bright and shows traits strongly associated with the "gifted" umbrella: accelerated reading, ease with numbers, and esp. the sensitivity and strong moral sense.

 

More important than testing for him seems to be helping him manage his mental activity, and his sensitivity; does that sound right to you? It can be very helpful, when they are disturbed by particular thoughts, to teach them to relax about it. You can explain that it is perfectly okay and normal to have thoughts or images that are unpleasant or disturbing; that is just how our minds sort things out. The best way to combat these things is calmly and persistently. Teach him to take a deep breath and relax when he has upsetting thoughts; help him imagine something peaceful or wonderful to replace the thought; then help him scoot the negative image away, or fade it out, or have it otherwise disappear, and replace it with something nicer. Repeat as necessary. The handy thing about these children is that they are able to understand all this, implement it (with help, of course!) and they can be quite persistent and resolute.

 

What he wants to learn is not to get upset about being upset in the first place. When he's overwrought, let him know that being overwrought is perfectly okay, if incredibly uncomfortable. His feelings come and go and they are not the same as his self, and over time and with practice they will become more manageable.

 

For very persistent images, I have Button imagine that they get transformed into something cute and cuddly (because he wasn't able to imagine them away), or tiny and non-scary (like a little mouse that then scoots off into a hole) or in one case that it got eaten, but usually something getting eaten up is more upsetting to him than helpful.

 

Regarding his spirituality, might I mention that it can help them to actively cultivate simplicity in their prayer life? It is easy for these little ones to get caught up in thinking and fretting. Reflecting on the Lord's Prayer during stressful times can be helpful. If he's super angst-ridden, the bit about being forgiven as we forgive others may trigger anxiety, because of course we can never forgive perfectly and so some children fret that the Lord won't forgive them. Your tradition may have a particular teaching here, but certainly you can simply reassure the little one that to forgive debts doesn't require us to rework our entire feelings, but simply to let go of the "debt", of any claim to retribution for wrongdoing. -- or maybe there is another simple and gentle prayer, verse, or reflection you can teach him. Memorizing gentle and loving Bible passages can be very helpful.

 

-- also, since you are so busy, you probably want a curriculum that makes things easy for you. What are you doing now? Is there anything there that one of the boards here could help with? I will mention that Bubs and Zay could probably do one of the Charlotte Mason programs at the same year, and the language would benefit both if the style suited you. Many who use CM do boost language arts, math and science but that's another thread ;).

 

Blessings.

Edited February 14, 2012 by serendipitous journey

[CatholicMom]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts! I definitely plan to get Bubs tested for dyslexia whenever we get it figured out with insurance and all.

 

Ana, those are some good suggestions. I definitely want to find Zay the answers he needs to ease his mind about the questions (if anyone knows of a good book, that would be awesome. But I don't want another program to "teach" so much as a book of questions & answers or even DVD's or something -?). The comforting bible verse and prayers are also a really good idea. Maybe we can write some down together that he can keep with him and use in time of need. I bet he would like that.

 

To answer your question about what I'm doing now... I do, thank goodness, have both the boys doing all subjects together except math and reading. So that is very helpful. I do some subjects CM-style like apologia sci so I can simply read to both the boys together.

 

My 2 current challenges are:

 

1) Adding in DD who is turning 5. I'm doing AAR Pre-1 with her right now and hoping to move to AAR Level 1 in the fall (which will technically be the start of K for her). I'm thinking of focusing on the 3 R's with her and just having her "listen in" on science, history, read alouds, etc.

 

2) Figuring out what to do for history. This is hard because my family is heavily considering Catholicism so we don't want a curriculum that is subtly (not not so subtly) anti-Catholic, and I would like to use something that I can use with a wide age-range (hopefully even with dd in K next year). I like a lot about SL but I find it's just too much switching gears for me (I cannot take reading more than 1 history book simultaneously for some reason). I like a lot of the books (not all - I think there's some needlessly disturbing stuff in some of the literature choices and that bugs me about SL too). I'm considering Connecting With History but I don't know if following their program (as opposed to just reading the books) would entail all the switching gears, as well. Sometimes I wonder if just reading the books would not provide an adequate education as opposed to all the book-hopping? I would also like to include more hands-on activities in history because I realized Bubs is a Wiggly Willy who LOVES projects and crafts. You can almost see his eyes light up when it's project time... and I love them too as long as they don't put me on a scavenger hunt (I'm a just-buy-the-supply-kit girl) and they actually teach something or help the kids remember something. I've looked at SOTW and find it very appealing (especially the activity stuff) but not sure about the religion issue.

 

*sigh* Aren't you glad you asked? :lol:

[CatholicMom]

As far as testing goes, I probably will hold off for a while and just try easing up on the reigns a bit with math and reading for Zay and let him go as quickly as he comfortably can through the lessons.

 

I looked over MUS Beta afresh this morning and realized he could definitely skip the next 3 lessons. So even though I didn't ask him to, Zay did all the word problems from those lessons (in about 3 minutes) just to prove he could (mm k? lol) and I made sure he knew what he was doing and told him, fine, we'll move a few lessons down to the material that I think he might not know yet. I think he will catch onto that in about 5 seconds so I decided that instead of holding him up I'm going to dish it out as fast he wants, as long as he's retaining it.

 

I will also add the Ruff book to my list of books to read. I plan to read one on dyslexia first, though.