CC-Uh..."I want to worship Athena! She's like me!"

[twoxcell]

I'm not Christian, but as a monotheist, I think this is a big problem with getting so deeply enmeshed into greek/roman mythology at such a young age. If you still don't have your own beliefs down, romanticizing other "gods and goddesses" will confuse you.

 

:iagree:

[Bang!Zoom!]

Could those of you who have mentioned the Saints recommend a good starter book for a logic-age child? I have a dd13 who is VERY into mythology, and I love the idea of supplementing with a discussion of REAL women who did amazing things. Thanks!!

 

An alternative to a book would be a "Saint of the Day" from any of the sites, and depending on your outlook you could go deeper on places like the Holy See, or just do a email of the day to start.

 

Growing up, I heard "St. of the Day" out of the books (we had several)- and every.single.day there was at least five minutes of talk about it. I associate St. of the Day talk with a single candle and the smell of cosmetics & White Shoulders perfume as an adult..lol..my mom always did St. of the Day just as she was getting dressed for work

 

Try this, sign up for the email and give it a whirl.

 

http://www.americancatholic.org/features/saintofday/

 

Today is St. Colette

 

Colette did not seek the limelight, but in doing God’s will she certainly attracted a lot of attention.

 

Colette was born in Corbie, France. At 21 she began to follow the Third Order Rule and became an anchoress, a woman walled into a room whose only opening was a window into a church.

 

After four years of prayer and penance in this cell, she left it. With the approval and encouragement of the pope, she joined the Poor Clares and reintroduced the primitive Rule of St. Clare in the 17 monasteries she established. Her sisters were known for their poverty—they rejected any fixed income—and for their perpetual fast. Colette’s reform movement spread to other countries and is still thriving today. Colette was canonized in 1807

[Whereneverever]

What I would do...

 

1. Talk to the church about the social issues in class. That HAS to be resolved. Ask for ways to help integrate your daughter.

 

2. Explain to your daughter your church's stance on women in areas of leadership. There are plenty of ways women vitally contribute in churches that don't allow women to hold pastoral or eldership positions. Explain it to her in a POSITIVE way, because it IS positive. However, you have to believe that if you are going to teach your daughter to. If you don't understand it, go talk to the ministerial staff. Maybe work through a book together on the subject.

 

3. Personally, your daughter is 7yo. I'd do a subtle drop of classical mythology. I do NOT mean I would forbid it. I would definitely replace it with something else though until your child is much older and firmly rooted in her faith (post-catechesis). The ladies on this board have given you plenty of options. Strong woman in the Bible, saints (though as a Lutheran Missouri Synod, I don't really see you going this route), and/or famous women of the Reformation.

 

4. I'd probably also do a Bible study on Acts 17.

 

That's where I'd start.

 

The LCMS recognizes and has resources about the lives of many saints.

[LucyStoner]

Maybe not what you want to hear, but I would change churches in a heartbeat - no matter how much I liked it. Being ostracized in a children's group at church is Hell, and as my sister could attest, can cause lifelong emotional scars. Get her out of there, Mom; she will thank you for it later.

 

:iagree:

 

There are plenty of churches where she would not be isolated like that.

 

Even if you do stay in your church, you can let her know about other churches. There are also churches that she might be interested in that ordain women. You can tell her what you believe but you can't make her believe it. In the end it is preferable to have her go to another denomination when she grows up than for her to become 100% disenfranchised with the church.

[acurtis75]

I am in vacation and don't have much time to post but fwiw our dd's are similar ages and working on about the same level. We went through a period where dd often vocalized that she thought Greek gods were cooler to worship. She didn't necessarily focus on the woman thing but it was the same type of "wouldn't it be cool if" questioning and thinking. She has also asked why women aren't Pastors, etc. IMHO this is normal discussion/thinking and questioning and the best way doe us to deal with it is with conversation that is not defensive. I don't think you necessarily need to change churches or stop reading mythology. Just talk about what she is reading, what she thinks and why you believe what you believe. Your daughter is going through the logic stage earlier than most kids :lol: you MIT also consider some apologetic materials that line up with your particular faith to add to her curriculum for discussion. It was also helpful in our situation to discuss the wrong things the Greek gods did and why they wouldn't make good objects of worship (I.e they act in anger, selfishness, etc).

[Audrey]

Suppose she draws inspiration from Athena rather than worship her? But I agree with the pp, there are lots of useful kinds of saints. I have a fondness for this one.

 

:)

Rosie

 

:iagree: with the bolded. Perhaps a conversation on what makes something worthy of worship. It isn't about just "being like me." You may want to think about that, though, as once one begins to examine what exactly is worthy of worship, one begins to question all deities, which may or may not produce the results you want.

[mom2abcd]

Your daughter sounds like a very bright girl! It sounds like she has received some misinformation, though. And it sounds like she is going to keep you on your toes, going to Scripture to know truth, keeping her from things she isn’t ready for or isn’t handling well, and going to the Lord often with lots of prayer!

 

Tell your daughter that the Greeks gave up Athena long ago, realizing she wasn’t real. Athena wouldn’t understand her; she is nothing but a character from mythology. Our son has been to Greece. (He loved it – gorgeous country!) Most Greeks today are Christians. I think it’s about 97%. They figured out long, long ago that Athena wasn’t worth worshipping:o) I, too, would avoid studying the religions of the ancient world. There’s PLENTY of good stuff in the Old Testament, which covers ancient times:o)

 

If your daughter is looking for a God who understands, remind her that God came to earth and walked the human life in the person of Jesus Christ. “We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin.†Hebrews 4:15 She may enjoy studying Luke 2:40-52 about Jesus when was 12. He knew where to go with questions—God’s house. You may like to read this: http://stpetersarlington.org/2012/01/01/a-real-boy/ I would encourage you to talk about all these issues with your pastor and even encourage your daughter to ask him any questions she has about God.

I would question her to see where she is getting some of these ideas. You know her statement that “our church doesn’t think women should be smart†isn’t true. But where would she have heard such a thing?

 

The LCMS holds women in very high esteem. Our institutions have been training women for professional church work for generations. While we believe that God reserves the position of “pastor†for men, women can and do hold many other roles in the church—Deaconesses, DCEs, teachers, etc. http://www.lcms.org/deaconess There are plenty of great women role-models. Maybe she would like to hear about an LCMS missionary family where the mother has great responsibility and they have a dd close in age to your dd! Pm me if you want more info.

 

You may like to review this CTCR document from the LCMS. It points out many bold leaders who were women. It explains some of the cultural issues of Bible times and some of the Greek words.

 

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/mosynod/women-01.txt

It ‘s not a good feeling to feel like we’re denied something. When I think of how some women think they want the power/responsibility of “pastorâ€, it reminds me of the first woman—Eve. She wanted what the devil offered. And when she got it, she regretted it. Frankly, I can tell you that being the right-hand woman at a pastor’s side is more than enough responsibility and stress! Another word picture comes to mind—a little child asking her father how babies are started… (or what child porn is or gang rape or whatever). The father says, “Susie, that would be a big burden for you to bear. Just let me bear it.†God is like a benevolent grandparent spoiling us by not making us clean the chicken coop or whatever it is that is stressful. Making the guys do the dirty work is a gift to us! Wanting what we don’t have is a sin as old as Eve. It’s human nature.

 

The social issues… yes, unfortunately that’s common when removing a child to homeschool them and then getting back with the peer group in whatever way. We’ve experienced it, too. Like the Athena topic and so many other things, you have a lot of influence! Kids catch our attitudes, hear our frustrations, discern our “spin†on something more than we may realize. Like Daisy said, be careful and be positive! I would talk to the adults involved in the social situations and make them aware of the situation. Invite some of the kids to do things with your daughter and build those relationships. But realistically, kids have the “out of sight, out of mind†mentality. Your daughter will likely end up feeling closer to kids at a co-op or neighbors or others who spend more time with her.

 

Do you have any LCMS churches nearby that have a woman DCE or deaconess? It sounds like she would enjoy that! (Not encouraging you to change churches—there is no perfect church because we’re all imperfect people!) You can check lcms.org.

 

I hope this helps. It sounds like you have a very intelligent little girl there. It takes a lot of prayer to parent! God bless us all!

[Dmmetler]

You've given me a lot to think about.

 

I think part of the problem is probably that her current Sunday School teacher is a sweet lady who normally teaches Junior K for the parochial school. I can easily see her answering questions in the way she's used to teaching, and DD interpreting that as "I'm not supposed to be able to understand more than that"-which, in her 7 yr old, black/white, right/wrong view could easily be combined to get the "Girls aren't supposed to be smart in church" attitude (because she's more than capable of missing that the teacher talks to the boys exactly the same way). And, I do have to admit that, while we read and discuss actual scripture at home, she is almost certainly getting just about every other subject on a higher cognitive level than she's getting catechism-in large part because I KNOW that she won't even be eligible for confirmation for many years. And while I think Growing in Christ is a good curriculum-I like the fact that there's quite a bit of memory work integrated and actual scripture, we've had more than a few "Why do we ONLY learn part of the bible?" stories from DD, who's response to getting her first bible was to sit down and read it, and who gets frustrated in yet another lesson about Noah's Ark or David and Goliath.

 

 

And I do agree that wanting to be like Athena is probably about like wanting to be Wonder Woman-she's a literally mythical, powerful figure who is smart, brave, and cool. Add that DD LOVES Goddess Girls books, which personify Athena as the smart, slightly geeky kid who comes up with neat solutions to problems, and Percy Jackson, where Annabell, the daughter of Athena, is basically the same character, and I think you're right that she's not using Worship in the sense of "I want to build a church and go celebrate Athena", but more like "I want to be her when I grow up!". I am wondering if I've stressed the idea that every mythology is/was SOMEBODY'S religion too much, though!

 

We go to Nashville for a couple of times a year, and I think she would probably really enjoy seeing a religious community of women and that women can have very, very special roles. When she was 5, I went to a conference held on a Catholic college campus, and I know DD had several wonderful discussions with some of the sisters (she'll talk to anyone) and was enthralled by the idea of being a nun-so this might be a good time to re-introduce that idea. I think she'd also love Saints. I expect part of what appeals to her about the Greek Gods/Goddesses is that they ARE portrayed as so human in so many ways-and that hearing about real people who lived a life of faith and belief and were true heroes might provide some of the enchantment that she needs, that she's not finding in hearing the same general set of bible stories each year and memorizing the small catechism and bible verses. And I'm a lot more comfortable with the idea of my child exploring Catholicism, or other branches of Christianity, and trying to figure out her role and faith that way and finding her place in it.

 

I do think that we need to find a church without the school. I don't know if that would be possible within LCMS or if we'll have to look outside-it's not a really common denomination here. But even a church where everyone went to public school would likely have kids from multiple schools and multiple classrooms within the school, so wouldn't have nearly as strong of a clique effect. Add that DD probably doesn't have quite the same answers (since her religious instruction is coming from me, mostly via discussing books scheduled by Sonlight in reference to "How does this reflect what we believe), and that DD just plain doesn't THINK like most kids her age, and I can see why she's struggling. I don't think the kids are being overtly mean or bullying her-it seems to be more a subtle sense of being different and her just not fitting in, which she already feels frequently in groups anyway, and apparently is much worse at church than at homeschool stuff (where, as she says, she can talk to the big kids or help with the babies-both of which she enjoys) or with her dance friends, who tend to focus on dancing and on coming up with new choreography when they're together.

 

 

Sigh...sometimes I wonder if ANY part of parenting is easy?

[Carol in Cal.]

Around here there are more LCMS churches without schools than with them, so it would not be all that hard to find one. I don't know about TN, though!

 

I like Growing in Christ, but it's not enough to be comparable to a parochial school curriculum. When I started homeschooling DD, I bought the 1st grade curriculum from CPH, and felt the same way about it--it just wasn't enough. We continued with reading the Bible, and talking about it, instead. We also integrated Bible history into SOTW1, which was a wonderful, rich way to study the whole Bible pretty thoroughly.

 

Then in either 3rd or 4th grade, when the CPH parochial school curriculum gets meaty, we switched over and stuck with that through 8th grade. We used Voyages, which was very strong, especially in grades 4-6. I can't recommend it highly enough. It's made to be used every day in school, and it sends kids all over the Bible. It is GREAT.

 

CPH has a newer curriculum that I have not seen yet, that focusses on the Catechism more. I don't know that I would use that as we have extremely strong catechetical teaching at our church, but I would probably want to see it before deciding. Voyages was great, though.

 

Just a little more info for you!

[Whereneverever]

Additionally, the CLC has a free curriculum online at God's hand in our lives. Pax Domini also has some really nice, meaty offerings.

[Whereneverever]

It also looks like there are four LCMS church in Memphis without a school. Perhaps one would be a better fit?

Edited February 9, 2012 by theretohere