Lost....

[RainbowSprinkles]

I've started a similar thread before but I cannot find it...

 

So here's what I'm thinking:

 

God wants us to love him with all of our hearts, our minds, our soul. He doesn't really care if we are happy, because he wants to use sad circumstances for his glory. The problem I have with this is this: It seems like a very selfish, self-centered God. Based on my history I have a huge dislike for more than healthy self-centeredness.

 

My other thought is this: What if I love someone too much (like say, my children) and as a result something will happen either to them or myself because God is jealous.

 

I believe in Jesus. I believe that he died and rose up again.

 

I don't want to feel the way I'm feeling right now (more like years probably). Like in a way, it's like just based on my fear of God and what he might do if I don't love Him as much as he wants me to.

 

How do I get over this horrible fear? I just want my life back. I want to love as much as I want without being worried.

 

I just want to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I would like to know what true unconditional love feels like from a person here on earth. I feel like I deserve love too, I have yet to feel loved unconditionally. Take me as I am kind of love, don't try to change me cause it's not gonna happen kind of love. (Which I'm mostly dealing with in my marriage). And then I feel like: Why should I deserve love anyway? I'm nothing.

 

I have more to say, but that's all I have time for right now..

[Mama Geek]

I just finished reading the Cost of Discipleship. You might want to read it. It discusses this pretty well. It is by Bonhoefer.

[Guest]

:grouphug: For the first part of your post, I have thought similarly. Somebody told me, "Whatever you love more than God, that is what He'll take from you." This was a horrible, terrible, tragic thing to say to me, as I had just recently lost my baby girl. (This was a complete stranger who couldn't have known my circumstances.) I have wrestled at times with that odd incident. Was that man right? Did God take my baby from me because I love motherhood and my children more? Was that all just an awful coincidence?

 

I've had to get away from trying to understand all these confusing elements about God. I have moved more toward following Jesus' example and moving toward connecting with Divine Love. I think truly receiving unconditional love probably won't happen until I am practiced at being that towards others. I also have my times when I think I don't matter to others, that nobody really loves me. The only antidote to it is to treat others the way I wish I were treated, without attachment to a return on my investment.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry for all you're going through. It cannot be easy, I'm sure.

[Sputterduck]

I'm not sure what to say except that God does care if you're happy. Why would you ever think otherwise?

 

And the "fear" of God is a healthy fear. Like having a healthy fear of the ocean. It's mostly awe and respect of such a great and unfathomable power. It's not fear like fearing a criminal. Fearing what he might do to you if you fall short isn't what He wants from you. We *all* fall short. He's not an abusive parents waiting for an excuse to hurt us.

[AprilTN]

I have been struggling with many similar types of issues and I have realized that much of my struggle comes from the bad theology I've been fed for the last few years. My dh and I changed denominations, and it seemed on the surface to be just fine, but as time went on I began to get very confused with things that people would say, and much of it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Someone gave me a book to read and it has real helped me begin to re-acquaint myself with God, Jesus, suffering, and life's purpose. I highly recommend the book. It is The Promise by Father Jonathan Morris.

 

I have heard people say that God will take away something that you love more than Him, and that makes my toes curl. I think that is baloney.

[Claire in NM]

receiving God and receiving Jesus is an entirely different matter. Many believe that Jesus died for man. Even the demons believe Jesus is the Son of God and shudder. The difference in believing and receiving is the same as being aware of the fact and knowing the fact.

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God. (John 1:12)

 

Once you have accepted/received Jesus's act of love, ie. dying on the cross for you, then God will let you know that you are indeed His child. And as His child, God wants to give you the things that He knows to be best for you.

Which of you fathers (mothers), if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him? (Luke 11-13)

 

Claire in NM

[Cindyg]

He doesn't really care if we are happy, because he wants to use sad circumstances for his glory.

 

Your philosophy stems to come from this ^ belief, and this is not true. The second half of your sentence is true -- God will use everything for his glory. I would even agree that your happiness is not God's priority for your time on earth. But it is not true that God doesn't care if you are happy.

 

The problem I have with this is this: It seems like a very selfish, self-centered God.

 

God's glorifying himself is not selfish or self centered. And it is not dangerous or scary.

 

My other thought is this: What if I love someone too much (like say, my children) and as a result something will happen either to them or myself because God is jealous.

 

You're making God into a bully. He is jealous for you; but he is not jealous like an out-of-control bully boyfriend. Your loved ones are not in danger from your God.

 

I would like to know what true unconditional love feels like from a person here on earth. I feel like I deserve love too, I have yet to feel loved unconditionally.

 

Sadly, I think most people do not experience unconditional love in this life. I just don't think a lot of people have that to give. I do believe we will experience that in Heaven, and it's one of the things Christians look forward to.

 

Your post is full of pain, fear, and confusion. If you were my IRL friend, I would try to connect you with somebody wise and compassionate in my church who could counsel you in Christianity and also through some of the personal issues that bring you to this position. Do you think you could find such a person in your own real life, possibly in your church?

[Claire in NM]

It sounds like you are at a point where you are asking God to just make Himself known to you. That you are just wanting Him to say "I love you", because it is in "hearing" those three little words that will make everything you are experiencing bearable. Why? Because the Most High, Wonderful, Amazing Creator of the Universe has just let you know that He loves you!

 

Claire in NM

[Sputterduck]

Understand that God loves you more than you love your own children. That's how precious you are to Him.

[RainbowSprinkles]

:grouphug: For the first part of your post, I have thought similarly. Somebody told me, "Whatever you love more than God, that is what He'll take from you." This was a horrible, terrible, tragic thing to say to me, as I had just recently lost my baby girl. (This was a complete stranger who couldn't have known my circumstances.) I have wrestled at times with that odd incident. Was that man right? Did God take my baby from me because I love motherhood and my children more? Was that all just an awful coincidence?

 

I've had to get away from trying to understand all these confusing elements about God. I have moved more toward following Jesus' example and moving toward connecting with Divine Love. I think truly receiving unconditional love probably won't happen until I am practiced at being that towards others. I also have my times when I think I don't matter to others, that nobody really loves me. The only antidote to it is to treat others the way I wish I were treated, without attachment to a return on my investment.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry for all you're going through. It cannot be easy, I'm sure.

 

Thanks!

[jennsmile]

:grouphug:

 

I guess I view God as a very loving Heavenly Father. He love me and wants me to be happy. Yes sometimes tragedy will strike but even then I can see His loving care during those times. Sometimes in the midst of my sorrow and sometime as I look back on those times.

 

In our church we have what is called the Plan of Happiness. I know our Heavenly Father wants us to be happy. I know He wants us to have joy.

Here is one of my favorite songs.

Love at Home

[RainbowSprinkles]

I'm not sure what to say except that God does care if you're happy. Why would you ever think otherwise?

 

 

It's based on my past and somewhat my present.

[Liz CA]

Oh girls! :grouphug:

God is not out to hit us over the head. Jeremiah 29:11 ...the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you..."

Granted, prosper can mean things other than financial wealth. In the English language it is mainly associated with material goods.

 

If God always took what we love most on Earth, none of us would have husbands, childrens, animals, etc. God knows our finite minds, our earthly attachments. He is not asking that we abandon everything here when he has given us responsibilities, i.e. families.

 

Rainbow: Truly unconditional love comes from God, with a wonderful dose of grace.

 

Quill: I have read your posts about the child you lost. I am wondering if this person who made this unfortunate remark at that time would not be appalled if he/she knew how it has haunted you all these years.

 

:grouphug: to both of you!

[mlbuchina]

:grouphug: sent you a pm

[RainbowSprinkles]

Understand that God loves you more than you love your own children. That's how precious you are to Him.

 

 

And I want to be able to believe that so badly!! I don't want to constantly be afraid that if I make a wrong choice He will take his love and grace away.

[RainbowSprinkles]

Your post is full of pain, fear, and confusion. If you were my IRL friend, I would try to connect you with somebody wise and compassionate in my church who could counsel you in Christianity and also through some of the personal issues that bring you to this position. Do you think you could find such a person in your own real life, possibly in your church?

 

No one that I can trust. I tend to be quiet and don't feel the need to constantly be talking, so a lot of the time people think I'm shy or whatever. So I don't really make friends too easily.

[RainbowSprinkles]

I think a lot of it has to do with a fear of being abandoned. I didn't have a very hard childhood compared to many others but I did have a mother whose first priority were herself and then men. And a father who left when I was 2, and never cared to keep in touch much. Plus I now have a husband who has absolutely no idea who I am or what I want out of life nor does he care.

[jennsmile]

I think a lot of it has to do with a fear of being abandoned. I didn't have a very hard childhood compared to many others but I did have a mother whose first priority were herself and then men. And a father who left when I was 2, and never cared to keep in touch much. Plus I now have a husband who has absolutely no idea who I am or what I want out of life nor does he care.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Here is the song I sing when I feel all alone in this world. I know you aren't a young child but you are still a child of God.

[Sputterduck]

I think a lot of it has to do with a fear of being abandoned. I didn't have a very hard childhood compared to many others but I did have a mother whose first priority were herself and then men. And a father who left when I was 2, and never cared to keep in touch much. Plus I now have a husband who has absolutely no idea who I am or what I want out of life nor does he care.

 

:grouphug: God will never abandon you. Never. He is the one thing in life that you really can trust to always be there no matter what.

[jennsmile]

:grouphug: God will never abandon you. Never. He is the one thing in life that you really can trust to always be there no matter what.

:iagree:

[Sputterduck]

And I want to be able to believe that so badly!! I don't want to constantly be afraid that if I make a wrong choice He will take his love and grace away.

 

Sometimes it just takes time to trust Him. Time and experience. Eventually you will see that He won't leave.

 

David slept with a married woman and then murdered her husband. Can you top that? In the end, God counted David as His friend.

[usetoschool]

From Isaiah

 

13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the Lord hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

 

14 But Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.

 

15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

 

16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

 

 

 

He is God because he is perfect and loves you perfectly. I absolutely understand not being able to feel that - I have been there - but He still loves you and always will. He cannot be any other way.

[LuvingLife]

Oh girls! :grouphug:

God is not out to hit us over the head. Jeremiah 29:11 ...the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you..."

Granted, prosper can mean things other than financial wealth. In the English language it is mainly associated with material goods.

 

If God always took what we love most on Earth, none of us would have husbands, childrens, animals, etc. God knows our finite minds, our earthly attachments. He is not asking that we abandon everything here when he has given us responsibilities, i.e. families.

 

Rainbow: Truly unconditional love comes from God, with a wonderful dose of grace.

 

Quill: I have read your posts about the child you lost. I am wondering if this person who made this unfortunate remark at that time would not be appalled if he/she knew how it has haunted you all these years.

 

:grouphug: to both of you!

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this, God loves you, he created you in His image, not anyone elses. You are His, and as we all are no matter who believes and who does not believe. A part of the problem of being normal human beings is we think too much, we try to have control over everything, like life, who should stay and who should go. Or why it was unfair, when God has it all planned out, nothing ever comes a surprise to Him, He knows it all. And as Christians, Baptists, Catholic, etc. we will deal with pain and sorrow, but there will be a time for happiness and a time for weeping, and Jesus said this in the bible that those who follow Him aren't guarenteed to live an easy life.

 

The pain that life has caused, didn't happen by accident, it can make you that much stronger to live a better life, make better decisions and above all living it for you Creator. God sent His son, He became flesh and died for you, and everyone on this earth, He took away everything. Our sins are washed away if we truly believe in God, and although life is bad at times, (and I know how it can be), God is there for you no matter what you are going through. Talk to Him, have a conversation, vent out a little, we are only human, but remember that He is God and will make all the wrongs right in the end.

 

:grouphug: and prayers for you and your family, remember that you are worthy and that we have no control over life at all, but there will be a day that we'll meet our Maker face-to-face, and we will truly be happy.

[SnowWhite]

The jealousy of God is to be worshiped as God, and to be the One we turn to with our praise and our desires. It's nothing like a jealous child or a jealous spouse.

 

I left the sect in which I grew up, on January 1st this year, after six months of soul searching; and part of the reason for my leaving is this view of God.

 

I do NOT believe God strikes spouses and children dead on a whim, or as a punishment.

 

I believe our world is terribly flawed and shuddering with sin-sickness like cancer contracted in the Garden of Eden, but I believe Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and gift of the Holy Spirit is the cure for the human heart and His return will be the cure for the terminally ill world. This sin-sickness is the reason and root of all unhappiness, and when we turn to Jesus, He will give us rest for our souls. He will give us comfort in our sadness and strength in our weariness. God is a loving Father, whose greatest pleasure is in showing how His mercy and grace can cure the sickness of sin.

[I.Dup.]

I can relate to the OP. I think it goes back to my grief and confusion of watching my mom's best friend die a horrible death when I was around 11 years old, and having someone tell me that God must have needed to teach others a lesson through her death or something along those lines (this woman left behind 5 children).

 

I have never forgotten her. I've been terrified of sickness and cancer ever since, even more so now that I have so many of my own loved ones. I am terrified that God will allow one of us to get a disease, like He did with Job, or this woman, or so many others. I'm just terrified in general. It's a terrible way to live. :crying:

 

To be fair, I've always been an anxious person.

 

It doesn't make sense because God has done nothing other than prove Himself faithful and loving and compassionate to me, even with all of my self-created dramas and problems. He's been the only constant, loving force in my life. He took care of me when everyone else abandoned me. But yet still, I struggle with this fear.

[mcconnellboys]

I'm sorry for your doubt. While I have never felt that God is jealous or would ever hurt us purposefully, I, too, have never felt loved. Forget unconditional love; I've never felt loved. Period. But you know, recently I've come to the place where I feel that we humans may be so broken that lots of us are really not capable of loving very well. I don't think God caused that in any way.

 

He wants us to love. He wants US to LOVE. Others. That's not a guarantee that we will feel loved in return by any but Him. HE will always be with us. In fact, I have come to believe that the less we feel loved by other humans, the more love He seeks to pour into us. His love. Perfect love.

 

Now, I see that you have a little one. Perhaps you are feeling some depression following the birth of this one? I don't know you, so can not be sure of this. But I do know one thing about you whether I ever meet you or not: YOU are not "nothing." YOU are the mother of four wonderful, blessed children who need your strength whether or not they will ever in their lives come to truly appreciate it. YOU are loved by the Creator of the Universe who knew you before your parts were knit together in your mother's womb. YOU are fiercely, creatively, magnificently, and wonderfully made in the image of the only perfect being in the Universe. In His image. You are worthy....

[mcconnellboys]

And here is my much grittier song....

 

[Peaceful Isle]

I , too, understand what the OP is saying here.Its hard to comprehend all the ways of a Almighty God, in our human minds.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is definitely not a peaceful or restful feeling at all. :( It's actually stressful and wearing. Even though people "tell" you of God's love and mercy, it hard for you to accept and believe, am I right?

 

The only thing that has brought me back to knowing and remembering that God truly does love me, and His mercy is everlasting, is reading His love letter. Without it, I am left to my own thoughts and start back to self doubt.

I feel your pain, and also your hurt. Big hugs to you!:grouphug:

[missmoe]

And then I feel like: Why should I deserve love anyway? I'm nothing.

 

 

 

You are not nothing. You are a creation of a divine being. A divine being does not create nothings.

 

I think of my relationship with my Heavenly Father as similar to the relationship between a father (or mother) and his children. All those things you want for your children because of your love for them, Heavenly Father wants for you---only more so because His love is perfect. Would you wish to take something away from your children because of jealousy? Do you wish for your children to feel scared of you? When your children make mistakes do you feel they deserve to have your love go away? Do you sometimes want to take the hard part of life away for your children, but don't because you know they need the hard part of life to learn and grow?

 

God love you in a perfect way. He wants you only to be happy. Sometimes that's hard. But those hard things aren't to make you unhappy or punish you--they will help you to grow.

 

:grouphug: Hope you can feel better soon. God really does love you and wants you to be happy in this life.

[Chris in VA]

Oh Dear One, he loves you so very much. He knows you are not perfect. He longs for you to know, deep in your most secret places, how much he cares for you!

 

Perfect love casts out fear. The more you turn to him and give him your fears, the more room you will have for him, I believe.

 

Rest in him. Trust in him. He knows what will make you truly satisfied--It's HIM! :D He wants us to love each other! He will not take a loved one from you; that is such a lie!

 

Oh, how he loves you. He is trustworthy. He is! He is!!:grouphug:

 

He's my funky friend

singing how he loves us, just for you.

[Guest]

Quill: I have read your posts about the child you lost. I am wondering if this person who made this unfortunate remark at that time would not be appalled if he/she knew how it has haunted you all these years.

 

One wonders.

 

Sticks and stones may break my bones,

but words can screw me up forever.