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What are you using after FLL4?


mo2
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I bought FLL because I thought it was going to be a complete program. Now that SWB has decided not to publish ALL, I'm not certain I want to use it and am thinking of switching to GWG because that program is complete. But before I do that, anyone care to share what you are using after FLL4?

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I bought FLL because I thought it was going to be a complete program. Now that SWB has decided not to publish ALL, I'm not certain I want to use it and am thinking of switching to GWG because that program is complete. But before I do that, anyone care to share what you are using after FLL4?

 

I go from FLL4 to R&S 5 with my kids. This has been a very smooth transition and one I plan to repeat with my last 3 kids.

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I used FLL 1-4 with my now 5th grader and was forced to switch. I do not know why Rod and Staff was recommended because we did not find it transitioned well at all. While we loved doing FLL together and my son enjoyed learning all grammar components in conjunction with actually learning how to diagram them as he learned each component, Rod and Staff was a huge backstep in this regard. We are only in chapter 4 out of 10 but here is my beef. The ONLY thing we have diagrammed is the sentence "skeleton" (new concept-the skeleton being the simple subject and verb or verb "phrase"). He had been diagramming complete subjects and complete predicates, adj. adv. compound everything, direct and indirect objects, predicate nominatives, predicate adjectives, prepositional phrases... basically everything taught in grades 1-4. So far in Rod and Staff this is not the case at all. There is very little diagramming. I feel like I have done my son a disservice my using FLL and switching to a program that is so different.

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Really? What didn't you like about it? I have thought about it for my second, but I'm on the fence. It seems pretty thorough.

 

I felt there was no depth to the program. The lesson gave some example sentences, and then the practice exercises were exact replicas of the examples. I felt the child doesn't need to actually understand the concept; he or she can just catch on to the pattern of the practice exercises.

 

I see a lot of people saying their child had no retention with GWG. I think there child never understood the concept in the first place and therefore can't use the concept but can only follow the pattern.

 

Tara

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We'll probably use KISS, but are also doing MCT next year. Having tried R&S 2 and 3, I agree with a PP that it's a step backward. Comparing like levels of FLL, I found FLL to hit more topics, and yes, the diagramming is more thorough in FLL. I'm sure R&S eventually gets there, but I don't think the process necessarily has to be so slow. They introduce diagramming subjects and verb phrases in level 3, so why are they still there in level 5?

 

My son has done 4 exercises in KISS, and using real sentences forces the child to actually learn what the subject and verb phrases are. There is no pattern to follow. They have to understand the function of the word in the sentence. We'll get into complements very soon (predicate noun, predicate adjective, direct object, indirect object). Having gone through most of the first level myself, it's quite a bit more challenging than FLL or R&S.

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We'll probably use KISS, but are also doing MCT next year. Having tried R&S 2 and 3, I agree with a PP that it's a step backward. Comparing like levels of FLL, I found FLL to hit more topics, and yes, the diagramming is more thorough in FLL. I'm sure R&S eventually gets there, but I don't think the process necessarily has to be so slow. They introduce diagramming subjects and verb phrases in level 3, so why are they still there in level 5?

 

My son has done 4 exercises in KISS, and using real sentences forces the child to actually learn what the subject and verb phrases are. There is no pattern to follow. They have to understand the function of the word in the sentence. We'll get into complements very soon (predicate noun, predicate adjective, direct object, indirect object). Having gone through most of the first level myself, it's quite a bit more challenging than FLL or R&S.

 

What level of KISS would you go to after FLL4? I've looked at KISS a few times and can't quite grasp it; FLL is so open and go. But I like the concept so maybe when we're done with FLL I'll try again.

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What level of KISS would you go to after FLL4? I've looked at KISS a few times and can't quite grasp it; FLL is so open and go. But I like the concept so maybe when we're done with FLL I'll try again.

 

You always start KISS at level 1 and just progress through the levels. Pick whatever grade level your child is in. The KISS levels are the same across the grade levels. The differences are the sentences used - they're from literature appropriate for the age group. I'm using the 3rd grade workbook for level 1 with my advanced 2nd grader. If I had a 4th grader, I'd probably still use the 3rd grade book, since the 4th grade book isn't in workbook form yet (just 3rd and 6th are workbooks for level 1).

 

I didn't understand KISS either until I read Denise's post on the logic board about how to use it, and then it was an "Aha!" moment. :D I downloaded the 3rd grade workbook and worked through most of it myself. I think that was helpful, so I know where it's going and how it's getting there. I'm using it on my 10" Android tablet with a PDF annotating app. My son enjoys snuggling on the couch together with the tablet and marking up the sentences. ;)

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You always start KISS at level 1 and just progress through the levels. Pick whatever grade level your child is in. The KISS levels are the same across the grade levels. The differences are the sentences used - they're from literature appropriate for the age group. I'm using the 3rd grade workbook for level 1 with my advanced 2nd grader. If I had a 4th grader, I'd probably still use the 3rd grade book, since the 4th grade book isn't in workbook form yet (just 3rd and 6th are workbooks for level 1).

 

I didn't understand KISS either until I read Denise's post on the logic board about how to use it, and then it was an "Aha!" moment. :D I downloaded the 3rd grade workbook and worked through most of it myself. I think that was helpful, so I know where it's going and how it's getting there. I'm using it on my 10" Android tablet with a PDF annotating app. My son enjoys snuggling on the couch together with the tablet and marking up the sentences. ;)

 

Thanks. We're doing FLL 3 now, I expect we will do level 4 next year so I'll be looking for something in 5th grade. I should go find that post on the logic board...

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Thanks. We're doing FLL 3 now, I expect we will do level 4 next year so I'll be looking for something in 5th grade. I should go find that post on the logic board...

 

Here's the thread:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324737

 

And here's Denise's post #10 (other posts also explained it, so read the whole thread :lol:):

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3326468&postcount=10

 

For a 5th grader, I'd probably use the 6th grade workbook. I believe Halcyon is using it with her advanced 4th grader. I haven't looked at that workbook myself. Again, the KISS levels are the same in the different grade levels. You can go from 1.4 in one grade to 1.5 in another grade and not miss a beat. I imagine that after doing FLL4, you'd probably not need to do all the sentences in each exercise, but I'd still go through the levels as suggested.

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I think this is the official site, but you would probably do better to read about it and look at samples at Christian Book and at Rainbow Resource.

 

Tara

 

It looks like Hake is now called Saxon Writing & Grammar, if that helps anyone.

 

I'd love to see a copy of this series in person--any idea if Barnes & Noble carries it (crosses fingers)?

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I felt there was no depth to the program. The lesson gave some example sentences, and then the practice exercises were exact replicas of the examples. I felt the child doesn't need to actually understand the concept; he or she can just catch on to the pattern of the practice exercises.

 

I see a lot of people saying their child had no retention with GWG. I think there child never understood the concept in the first place and therefore can't use the concept but can only follow the pattern.

 

Tara

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

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Here's the thread:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324737

 

And here's Denise's post #10 (other posts also explained it, so read the whole thread :lol:):

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3326468&postcount=10

 

For a 5th grader, I'd probably use the 6th grade workbook. I believe Halcyon is using it with her advanced 4th grader. I haven't looked at that workbook myself. Again, the KISS levels are the same in the different grade levels. You can go from 1.4 in one grade to 1.5 in another grade and not miss a beat. I imagine that after doing FLL4, you'd probably not need to do all the sentences in each exercise, but I'd still go through the levels as suggested.

 

Thanks!

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