s/o of rigorous thread on general board

[mlbuchina]

I want to be rigorous. I want the best I can do for my dc. Would you consider this a rigorous course load for next year?

 

Dd8 (4th grade by age):

WWE3

FLL4

AAS4-5

SOTW4

Physics Experiments for Children

Zaner-Bloser Grade 4 handwriting

Saxon 5/4

Latina Christiana 1

Artistic Pursuits 2-3

Drawing/Painting Lessons

Violin

Ballet/Jazz

Tumbling

 

Dd6 (2nd grade by age):

WWE1-2

FLL2

AAS2-3

SOTW4

Physics Experiments for Children

Zaner-Bloser Grade 2 handwriting

Saxon 2

Artisitc Pursuits 2-3

Finishing up OPGTR

Piano

Ballet/Jazz

 

We will be adding our state history in towards the end of the year. I have also played with the idea of moving from Saxon to Math-U-See, but I'm not sure.

 

Of course, we have lots and lots of reading as well, plus plenty of field trip opportunities.

 

Any thoughts? :001_unsure:

Edited February 4, 2012 by mlbuchina

[Crimson Wife]

So much really depends on the individual child. What is "rigorous" for one child may be too easy for another. You certainly appear to have solid programs picked out. I cannot say whether it is rigorous enough without knowing your child personally.

[mlbuchina]

So much really depends on the individual child. What is "rigorous" for one child may be too easy for another. You certainly appear to have solid programs picked out. I cannot say whether it is rigorous enough without knowing your child personally.

 

Yes, I can understand that completely.

 

As we get closer and closer to "middle school", I find I am beginning to doubt myself. I think I might should have not opened up that particular thread. :tongue_smilie:

 

I started home schooling with a lot of confidence, but now, not so much.

[wapiti]

:iagree: w/Crimson Wife.

 

Also, unless there's a typo here, you may want to adjust your "grade level" expectations. In most places, a kid who turn 8 before last September 1 (or whatever the state cutoff is) would be in 3rd grade, not 4th. Kids who just turned 8 would be in 2nd.

 

Likewise, 6 before last September 1 would be in 1st grade, not 2nd. Kids who just turned 6 would be in K.

[boscopup]

Looks fine to me.

 

Also, unless there's a typo here, you may want to adjust your "grade level" expectations. In most places, a kid who turn 8 before last September 1 (or whatever the state cutoff is) would be in 3rd grade, not 4th. Kids who just turned 8 would be in 2nd.

 

I was confused by that too, especially since she is in Alabama, which has a Sept. 1 cutoff. Then it dawned on me that she's talking about NEXT year, so I think her ages are current ages and grades are what grade they'll be in next year.

[sagira]

SOTW 4 is heavy stuff for most 6-year-olds. I'm holding off until ds is in 5th to do SOTW 4. Otherwise, solid programs.

[wapiti]

I was confused by that too, especially since she is in Alabama, which has a Sept. 1 cutoff. Then it dawned on me that she's talking about NEXT year, so I think her ages are current ages and grades are what grade they'll be in next year.

(duh :lol:) thanks ;)

[usetoschool]

They are all good, solid programs, as far as I know. I have used and liked many of them. I think it matters more how you use them. If you are making connections and understanding the logic and theory, developing good thinking and communications skills and lighting some fires then, sure, sounds good.

 

Any curriculum can be gotten through without being rigorous, in my opinion, regardless of how advanced or solid the text. I think it has more to do with how you view education and thinking and learning.

 

And you can do it - you obviously care about doing a good job and that is most of the battle.

[boscopup]

SOTW 4 is heavy stuff for most 6-year-olds. I'm holding off until ds is in 5th to do SOTW 4. Otherwise, solid programs.

 

The child will be 7. My 7 year old has read SOTW4 twice and loves it. :D

[angela in ohio]

The obvious disclaimers about it being dependent on your family, and the fact that anyone can use something and make it not rigorous, but I'm sure you're smart enough to know all that, so....

 

There are better choices for a rigorous math, imho. No wait, I'll just say it... I don't consider MUS to be rigorous (I don't say that out loud often, because MUS fans are rabid... wait for it...) If you want to head toward rigorous high school work, take something like Singapore and pair it with either plenty of drill or a program like ABeka/R&S/Horizons/Saxon. Saxon 5/4 in 3rd grade is an option some classical schools use with much success, though I personally don't like Saxon for advanced students or rigorous work (I've used 5/4 and Algebra 1/2, which I taught to a group of students.)

 

If you asked if what you have listed is "okay," I would say sure, but you sound like you really want opinions, not just affirmation. (ETA: And you're quoting Martin Cothran, so I know you are headed in the right direction. :D)

 

Everything else looks good. I would spend little time on the science and history, focusing mostly on language arts, math, and reading, reading, reading quality challenging literature. I would make sure dd8 was thoroughly memorizing all of her Latin paradigms and have dd6 listen in and learn those, too. I would also start helping the 8 yo find some independent areas of interest to study: hobbies, groups of non-fiction books, etc.

Edited February 4, 2012 by angela in ohio

[mlbuchina]

:iagree: w/Crimson Wife.

 

Also, unless there's a typo here, you may want to adjust your "grade level" expectations. In most places, a kid who turn 8 before last September 1 (or whatever the state cutoff is) would be in 3rd grade, not 4th. Kids who just turned 8 would be in 2nd.

 

Likewise, 6 before last September 1 would be in 1st grade, not 2nd. Kids who just turned 6 would be in K.

 

Sorry, that is their age now, not for next year. They will be 9 and 7 when we begin this schedule.

[mlbuchina]

SOTW 4 is heavy stuff for most 6-year-olds. I'm holding off until ds is in 5th to do SOTW 4. Otherwise, solid programs.

 

I am concerned about this as well. How do I handle having a younger? Should I look to do a separate history with her?

 

Thank you for the thoughts and suggestions.:001_smile:

[Embassy]

I want to be rigorous. I want the best I can do for my dc. Would you consider this a rigorous course load for next year?

 

Dd8 (4th grade by age):

WWE3

FLL4

AAS4-5

SOTW4

Physics Experiments for Children

Zaner-Bloser Grade 4 handwriting

Saxon 5/4

Latina Christiana 1

Artistic Pursuits 2-3

Drawing/Painting Lessons

Violin

Ballet/Jazz

Tumbling

 

Dd6 (2nd grade by age):

WWE1-2

FLL2

AAS2-3

SOTW4

Physics Experiments for Children

Zaner-Bloser Grade 2 handwriting

Saxon 2

Artisitc Pursuits 2-3

Finishing up OPGTR

Piano

Ballet/Jazz

 

We will be adding our state history in towards the end of the year. I have also played with the idea of moving from Saxon to Math-U-See, but I'm not sure.

 

Of course, we have lots and lots of reading as well, plus plenty of field trip opportunities.

 

Any thoughts? :001_unsure:

 

It looks like you have a very well-balanced line-up. Rigorous depends on your definition, I guess. How do you define rigorous?

[mlbuchina]

They are all good, solid programs, as far as I know. I have used and liked many of them. I think it matters more how you use them. If you are making connections and understanding the logic and theory, developing good thinking and communications skills and lighting some fires then, sure, sounds good.

 

Any curriculum can be gotten through without being rigorous, in my opinion, regardless of how advanced or solid the text. I think it has more to do with how you view education and thinking and learning.

 

And you can do it - you obviously care about doing a good job and that is most of the battle.

 

Thank you for your encouraging words.

 

The child will be 7. My 7 year old has read SOTW4 twice and loves it. :D

 

While I am concerned about the subject matter of SOTW4, I think that dd6 will actually like a lot of what is in it. She is more of my blood and guts dc, while dd8 is the very sensitive one. :tongue_smilie:

 

The obvious disclaimers about it being dependent on your family, and the fact that anyone can use something and make it not rigorous, but I'm sure you're smart enough to know all that, so....

 

There are better choices for a rigorous math, imho. No wait, I'll just say it... I don't consider MUS to be rigorous (I don't say that out loud often, because MUS fans are rabid... wait for it...) If you want to head toward rigorous high school work, take something like Singapore and pair it with either plenty of drill or a program like ABeka/R&S/Horizons/Saxon. Saxon 5/4 in 3rd grade is an option some classical schools use with much success, though I personally don't like Saxon for advanced students or rigorous work (I've used 5/4 and Algebra 1/2, which I taught to a group of students.)

 

If you asked if what you have listed is "okay," I would say sure, but you sound like you really want opinions, not just affirmation.

 

Everything else looks good. I would spend little time on the science and history, focusing mostly on language arts, math, and reading, reading, reading quality challenging literature. I would make sure dd8 was thoroughly memorizing all of her Latin paradigms and have dd6 listen in and learn those, too. I would also start helping the 8 yo find some independent areas of interest to study: hobbies, groups of non-fiction books, etc.

 

I will probably stick with Saxon, I'm just so bad about wanting to curriculum hop. Especially around this time of year, when people start talking about what they are going to be getting for the next year.

 

We are working through Prima Latina right now, and dd8 loves it. I think it is one of her favorite subjects right now, and she seems to be able to learn the vocab almost immediately. Her mom, not so much. :D I am trying to learn it with her, though.

 

Independent areas of interest... I have been concerned about her interests for a little while now. She doesn't seem to have any. Although, she loves to watch Cake Boss and has told me she wants to go to college and become a baker. That is the first time she has said anything about WANTING to go to college. lol Of course, dd6 chimes in with, "I'm NEVER going to college." She does love her art lessons and we will be starting violin next week. She has asked about taking violin lessons for about two years now, and I finally found a program I can afford.

 

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and insights!

[mlbuchina]

It looks like you have a very well-balanced line-up. Rigorous depends on your definition, I guess. How do you define rigorous?

 

I'm not really sure, which is why I have asked about our line-up. My first thoughts are what SWB says in TWTM. I read it and think, surely no one can actually do all that she says in there. But, I want to very much!:D

[angela in ohio]

Independent areas of interest... I have been concerned about her interests for a little while now. She doesn't seem to have any. Although, she loves to watch Cake Boss and has told me she wants to go to college and become a baker. That is the first time she has said anything about WANTING to go to college. lol Of course, dd6 chimes in with, "I'm NEVER going to college." She does love her art lessons and we will be starting violin next week. She has asked about taking violin lessons for about two years now, and I finally found a program I can afford.

 

Perfect! Get her some cake baking supplies and some kid cook books (our library even has a ton of them.) :001_smile: Isn't it the Cake Boss guy who has a line of supplies at Michael's? That would make a great gift. I have one dd who had to be persuaded to develop interests of her own, so I jumped on anything she liked. :D

 

The arts are a huge part of our homeschool. All of my dc have had continuous music and art lessons their whole homeschool career, and I can't even begin to say how invaluable it has been for teaching them discipline, poise in performance, concern about accuracy, etc. You won't regret squeezing them into the budget! :001_smile:

[8filltheheart]

I don't read the general board, so I have no idea what was posted there.

 

My experience is that rigorous is one of those ambiguous words that means different things to different people. People could look at my siggie and see my list for my Ker and 4th grader and make the assumption that we are not rigorous. I mean, I don't have long lists of things that they are doing daily. Nor do they spend all that much time doing academics. But, then, obviously those same people might be confused when they look at my 10th grader's list b/c obviously he is achieving quite a bit. ;)

 

So what makes academics rigorous?

 

For our homeschool, an appropriate workload for age that encourages the child to perform at their highest level of ability is the simplest definition of "rigorous" that I can come up with. My children when they are little all have short days. What is done during those short days varies from child to child w/their abilities, but my advanced kids have not spent any longer daily than my avg kids nor vice versa. I focus on the child and really pretty much ignore everything (and everyone ;) ) else.

 

My experience over the yrs is that my younger kids probably do far less than the avg homeschooler. But, by middle school they are typically doing more. By late high school, they are pretty much doing far more.

 

So there you go. How do you measure "rigorous?" If the goal is how many subjects my kids do when they are little, my answer would have to be nope, I am definitely not rigorous and nor do I want to be. If the goal is to have well-educated high school graduates that are used to strong academic challenges, then I guess my answer would be yes, I am. I am in this for the long haul (I'll have been homeschooling for 34 yrs by the time our youngest graduates.)

 

My personal opinion is that evaluating the quality of academics by a curriculum list is based upon a faulty premise. How are the children being taught? Are they being handed a stack of books and left to learn independently? How are they encouraged in their efforts when they approach new and unusually challenging material? What sort of unique connections is the student guided toward making? My list of evaluations for myself as teacher is a pretty nasty self-critique and often leaves me rolling up my sleeves to figure out where I have gone off track and what I need to do to get my child and I back in the right direction. No list of curriculum can accurately assess what takes place over 13 yrs of teaching. :001_smile:

 

Sorry if that is more of a philosophical answer than you want. it is what happens when I can't sleep and have sick kids. :tongue_smilie:

Edited February 4, 2012 by 8FillTheHeart

[....]

I want to be rigorous. I want the best I can do for my dc. Would you consider this a rigorous course load for next year?

 

Dd8 (4th grade by age):

WWE3

FLL4

AAS4-5

SOTW4

Physics Experiments for Children

Zaner-Bloser Grade 4 handwriting

Saxon 5/4

Latina Christiana 1

Artistic Pursuits 2-3

Drawing/Painting Lessons

Violin

Ballet/Jazz

Tumbling

 

Dd6 (2nd grade by age):

WWE1-2

FLL2

AAS2-3

SOTW4

Physics Experiments for Children

Zaner-Bloser Grade 2 handwriting

Saxon 2

Artisitc Pursuits 2-3

Finishing up OPGTR

Piano

Ballet/Jazz

 

We will be adding our state history in towards the end of the year. I have also played with the idea of moving from Saxon to Math-U-See, but I'm not sure.

 

Of course, we have lots and lots of reading as well, plus plenty of field trip opportunities.

 

Any thoughts? :001_unsure:

 

Hi, your schedule looks fine. When you're not sure if you're covering enough, you can always flip through TWTM to check.

 

The biggest mistake you can make in math is to use the programs that are considered "rigorous", yet they're a horrible fit for your student. If MUS is a much better fit for your child, then you should use it. I have a son who is using NO math curriculum and he seems to be right where he should be. I also have a daughter using Singapore and she is doing just fine with that. It's really up to each individual child and their personality.

 

Don't read the rigor threads ;) and don't worry about comparing your curriculum to what other people are doing. Everybody is in their own unique situation. I have a BFF who was stressing over that so much last year that she burned out and put all of her kids in ps. She felt like her kids were "so far behind" and when they went back to school, they were exactly where they should be.

 

Also, I've only been homeschooling 4 years, but the "rigor" in our homeschool increased when I started ditching curriculum and timetables of when my kids should learn something.

[Mommyfaithe]

Yes, I can understand that completely.

 

As we get closer and closer to "middle school", I find I am beginning to doubt myself. I think I might should have not opened up that particular thread. :tongue_smilie:

 

I started home schooling with a lot of confidence, but now, not so much.

 

That is very typical. Sort of like having your first baby..lol. We enter motherhood with all kinds of rosy thoughts......and it feels good, and we are excited and KNOW we are doing thie right thing....we will have the best, most perfect, wonderful, sass free, athletic, musical, academic, kids....the finders of the cure for cancer, the new Explorers of worlds beyond.....

 

Then we realize we are we and they are they....and that is a beautiful thing too:D.

 

I am a pretty rigorous homeschooler. Not ivy league homeschooling, but good school rigorous because I do notnhave ivy league kids. They would have to be focused enough to do the work without us losing our relationship completely. My kids got great scholarships....straight A's in small presitigous private institutions and my adult kids have been self supporting, yet very close with us since they were 18 and graduated from our homeschool.

 

My ds who is now 17 was cut off in his tracks by Lyme disease. That one was my IVY hope.....he wanted to go to Yale, and he would have made it too....IF he didn't get sick. He was a top tier swimmer, several years ahead academically, and finished with Pre-calc by 9th grade. He was academically rearing to go, no holds barred, learning lover. Lyme FRIED his brain....we are still trying tonfind it....week out what we can. Rigorous for him means relearning everything....EVERYTHING....right down to handwriting....sigh.

 

Anyway, don't let your fears of rigor sway you, or a lack of confidence cause you to depend on someone else's idea of what your kids should be doing. You wouldn't allow someone else to choose their diet, if youbsaid no sweets, and they were offering cake at every meal.:001_smile: you wouldn't let someone else choose their clothes or sports or which doctor they should see.....

 

Homeschooling needs to be approached on a child by child, not even family by family basis. What one child finds difficult or rigorous, or loathful, another child will be set on fire by, love and study with rapture.

 

What do your kids LOVE?? How does that play into their future?? As you approach middle and high school, hone in on those things. Offer lots of opportunities for them to explore what they love in a deep and meaningful way. Those experiences begin their resume' and good schools look to see what you are doing beyond academics.

 

Don't fret too much. It takes too much valuable time that could be spent doing more productive things.

 

Your programs all look fine...but it is really what you bring, as the teacher, to these programs.

 

Faithe

[Colleen in NS]

Would you consider this a rigorous course load for next year?

 

 

As we get closer and closer to "middle school", I find I am beginning to doubt myself.

 

Don't doubt yourself. I think you do have a very solid program going on there, esp. if you are teaching the subjects (esp. skills) diligently. That doesn't mean you can't adapt some of the programs, but if you know what you are doing in each one, you've got a good thing going there. As you get closer to middle school, some of those skill-subjects will naturally start to drop off as your kids master them; such as handwriting, spelling, how-to-read. And then others will expand, such as math, grammar, and writing. But then grammar contracts back down, lol.

 

I agree with just about everything Angela and 8FilltheHeart said.

 

Concentrate on those basic academic skills - they will reap benefits later (my son is looking at just one more school year of formal grammar study, and then he will be DONE! And then he'll only have to concentrate on using grammar properly in his writing, using a handbook, as his writing expands throughout high school).

 

Have fun with the science, history, art, and extra lessons/activities, but don't worry if you have to pare some things down at some point. I LOVE the way WTM lays out science and history study for the grammar stage years, but it can be pared down (to reading, writing about the reading, experimenting, having a look at some maps and the globe, and lots of talking about the reading/exp./globe) without detriment to future study.

 

Good luck! :D

 

p.s. 8FilltheHeart, I quoted your post from here onto another thread on the GB - I thought it was totally appropriate there.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Colleen in NS

[NittanyJen]

I agree with most of what 8Fill said, and that says something, because we have been at odds as often as not!

 

I think if you stick to your gut, ask yourself from time to time whether what you are doing feels right for your kids, and whether they are making progress and actually learning what you are trying to teach, you are doing fine.

 

The worst thing you could do is to switch programs around based on what someone else ( who has never even met your kids) says is the best thing out there. I would never in a million years use Saxon math, but that's not because nobody can use it successfully; it's because it's not a great fit for my kids and their learning style. I can't tell somebody else not to use it. It's about whether YOU use it effectively with your kids.

 

Trust yourself. Believe in yourself. Self evaluate, of course. Then trust yourself.

[ByGrace3]

I will probably stick with Saxon, I'm just so bad about wanting to curriculum hop. Especially around this time of year, when people start talking about what they are going to be getting for the next year.

 

all disclaimers about about your child, right fits, definitions of rigor, etc ;)

 

One comment about Saxon, if you are committed to it, just a heads up. We used Saxon 1 in K and when we switched to MM, I felt I had to do most of MM1 with her again. So, dd would have easily completed Saxon 2 for 1st (many use Saxon one year ahead), but we had to "remediate" (my word) in MM before moving on, just now we are almost done with MM 2A, but taking it slowly bc dd is not "mathy". Just some thoughts since you are interested in rigor, if your dc can handle it, I might ramp that up a little, even if you stick with Saxon, and maybe consider adding Singapore's CWP for word problem practice that Saxon lacks. :)

 

 

well, your thread has insprired me, since people actually answered with helpful information, I might have to start one of these myself soon! :tongue_smilie:

[Crimson Wife]

One thing that occurred to me re-reading your list this morning is that you don't list a vocabulary program for your 4th grader. Are you considering the Latin to cover vocab?

[mlbuchina]

One thing that occurred to me re-reading your list this morning is that you don't list a vocabulary program for your 4th grader. Are you considering the Latin to cover vocab?

 

No, I wasn't planning on Latin covering vocab, but now that you mention it...:tongue_smilie:

 

My vocab plans were actually to begin Vocab from Classical Roots (the 3 preliminary books before Book A), once we finish up AAS, or 5th grade, whichever comes first. If dd8 continues the pace she is at now with AAS, we will be finished with level 6 by about the first 6 weeks of 5th.

[2_girls_mommy]

I am concerned about this as well. How do I handle having a younger? Should I look to do a separate history with her?

 

Thank you for the thoughts and suggestions.:001_smile:

 

First to answer this: We are doing SOTW4 w/a 9 and 7 yr old this year. There has been no issue. My particular 7yr old has been along for the SOTW ride since she was 4, and there are chapters that are more suited to her than others. But there is something in every chapter for her to learn. She writes narrations. DD9 is using the outlines from the A.G. I find pictures on the internet for some of the chapters for dd7 to color, for other chapters she draws. For some chapters, we focus on the mapwork and where the country is. She doesn't have to get every detail from every chapter and it works fine. When we hit the potato plague which has maybe one sentence at the end about a lot of Irish heading to America we stopped for a minute and learned about immigration, Ellis Island, what being a "citizen" of a country means, and how you become one. I used What Your 2nd Grader Needs to Know and library books and the internet to do this with her.

 

On your original question: I think it looks plenty rigorous. MUS is the one thing that I haven't heard great things about too, but it may be working for you guys. We use R&S. Plenty of people don't think on its own that it is good. But my 4th grader uses it a year ahead and it works really well for us. HLS uses it in their Memoria Press packages. That is good enough for me, so I don't sweat what some say.

 

LCI and math and writing and SOTW4 make for a very full year for us. Our days are long and studious. I think we have plenty of rigor. We definitely spend more time on school than others I know. We focus more on latin than others I know IRL that seem to just 'dabble' in foreign languages, and we do more outside academic contests and such than people I know anyway. So I think we are doing fine. Your planned year looks very similar.

[Crimson Wife]

No, I wasn't planning on Latin covering vocab, but now that you mention it...:tongue_smilie:

 

My vocab plans were actually to begin Vocab from Classical Roots (the 3 preliminary books before Book A), once we finish up AAS, or 5th grade, whichever comes first. If dd8 continues the pace she is at now with AAS, we will be finished with level 6 by about the first 6 weeks of 5th.

 

FWIW, my DD has done both spelling and vocab since 3rd grade. OTOH, I haven't yet started her in formal Latin. I've decided to start with a roots-based vocab program and then wait until middle school for a full Latin course.

 

I didn't personally care much for the look of VfCR when I previewed it at my support group's curriculum fair. My DD did MCT's Caesar's English books (roots based but uses Socratic discussions to teach rather than busywork). She'll be starting Sadlier-Oxford Vocabulary Workshop as soon as I receive our order of that.

[2_girls_mommy]

For us, LCI and our spelling program and definitions in history and science have been plenty of vocab. I could add another program, but I don't feel it is lacking.

[angela in ohio]

No, I wasn't planning on Latin covering vocab, but now that you mention it...:tongue_smilie:

 

My vocab plans were actually to begin Vocab from Classical Roots (the 3 preliminary books before Book A), once we finish up AAS, or 5th grade, whichever comes first. If dd8 continues the pace she is at now with AAS, we will be finished with level 6 by about the first 6 weeks of 5th.

 

We just did Latin plus vocabulary from classic literature up until junior high and high school, when we worked through Vocabulary from Classical Roots (mostly to get the Greek roots) in the way recommended in WTM. My dd routinely scores very highly on her SAT vocab practice work and my younger dd just got a 99.9th percentile on her vocab section of the HSPT, so I know it worked out just fine. I wouldn't even worry about adding vocab now.