Is the VP Self-Paced history course (1815-Present) too light for 7th grade?

[HappyGrace]

We did the free one-month trial of Middle Ages and I thought that was surprisingly good. Not sure if it's enough for 7th grade though because I don't know the expectations for that age.

 

How about 1815-Present? Meaty enough to stand alone? We'd do some historical fiction and lit alongside.

 

I looked at the first sample last night about the gold rush and it definitely seemed too light-some of the vocab was "panning" and "prospectors" and the quiz (game) was pretty easy.

 

I would do their book along with it, but we've done them before and it is mostly just fill in the blank and regurgitate.

[PeterPan]

Yes, the VP self-paced history is absolutely, positively TOO LIGHT for the people on the boards who have chosen to do it with their 7th graders. And the lit, well there's no way in the world you could POSSIBLY get the lit level up enough to challenge them or make them think about the important issues of the 20th century, because Marrin, Freedman, Bartolleti, all these authors are found in the *6th* grade section of the VP catalog. And you know how that is, if they're in the 6th they're way below a 7th grader.

 

You know I'm joking, right? And you know the online classes add a lot more than what is in the printed tm, right? My dd says the classes just keep getting better. Do as you wish, but you should not have a problem beefing up the topics. I have an extensive list of lit for modern if my dd would ever get her butt in gear and finish the stupid first half of american... I signed her up for both, but we've been doing a co-op this year and aren't getting everything done! But the lit I found by those authors I listed (add Jim Murphy to the list) is AMAZING and totally age-appropriate. The BJU 8 is pretty good too or even the BJU 11 if you really want to stretch. We just keep plodding on. I wanted her to do both levels parallel, but she wouldn't do that, grrr.

[Amy in KS]

Yes, it is certainly appropriate for 7 th. it has much more detail than just the manual. Add the upper level lit suggestions and the non-fiction references on the back of the card, and you would have a very solid 7th grade history. I've taught 8th grade American history in public school if that makes you feel better about my recommendation.

[Penelope]

We did a month of the modern with a fourth grader. He learned some and liked the games, but didn't like it as much as I thought he would. We seem to be in the minority for not absolutely loving these programs, though. :)

 

I don't think the online program with just the few reading suggestions given would be complete for a 7th grader, JMO; it did seem very elementary. I think a 7th grader should be reading a spine and looking at some primary sources as well. Even if we decide to use VP online for fifth grade next year, I would not do it without using the cards and doing the readings from the cards, as well as additional literature readings, outlining, written narrations, and the reading of primary sources. It may be that those who use the program with older students are assuming it is beefed up in some manner; but as is, I don't feel the online program itself was "enough" even for my fourth grader, because it is all visual media with not much reading, writing, and thinking involved. I think it is very well done and would be great for a supplement, but since my kid wasn't enthralled and it does take a lot of time for something that I would consider only part of a history program, I decided to wait and rethink it for next year when I could have two students doing it.

[PeterPan]

Penelope,it sounds like your ds would be happier if you got the materials and taught it yourself. That way you could change the focus and make it the way you want. Have you seen Cajun Classical's blog where she talks about doing the VP history with her boy? She was able to take it in a way that really interested him, with lots of discussions about the politics of it, etc.

[HappyGrace]

Well, scratch that idea anyway, I guess. Just talked to dd and she'd rather do the BJU8. I think she will like the Student Activity book, etc.

 

She is at the point where she kind of just wants to git 'er done with a textbook. Rats, my days of fun are over-lol!

 

Thanks, everyone! Hopefully the answers will help someone else who may be thinking about it.

[G5052]

I bought the enhanced CD and will be adding a few projects, and I have all of the readers that go with it. We're also doing Challenge A with Classical Conversations (don't worry, we're long-term CC people and I know what is involved there).

 

Last year the same kid used the 8th grade BJUP book, and it was fine but not outstanding. This year she's in the online Explorers to 1815 class with Veritas and utterly loves it. She'd do the next one online again, but we're concerned about class time plus homework, etc.

[HappyGrace]

I was talking about the not really classes, but the things where they watch the little video with the tour guide people talking about the time period and have little quiz games and matching review games and maps and they sing the song about the card and so on. Is that what we're all talking about?

 

GVA, you have me worried now about the BJU! I suspected it would be just okay, nothing special. I wonder if I should rethink it and encourage her to do the VP. I do still think it's light though.

[PeterPan]

If you want to bump it up a notch, read something for modern over the summer and put her into Omnibus in the fall. That would solve your problem. They're getting ready to start sign-ups for the summer and fall live classes, so now would be the time.

 

No, the online class by itself, while rich, is NOT going to be something to fit advanced junior high processes. It's still grammar stage in approach, so it's narratives, mapping, that sort of thing. You would end up adding on literature, and the literature available for this level is *outstanding*. It's not like 4th grade where you sit there scratching your head looking for stuff. Look up these authors. Their stuff is so good you almost feel like you don't NEED anything else. :)

 

-Albert Marrin

-Russell Freedman

-Jim Murphy

-Susan Bartoletti

 

Yes, the BJU 8 is going to be light to her if you just do it straight and don't flesh it out. You're going to have to pick your poison here. That's why I asked if you might not be happier just going into Omnibus. Then she'd get the challenge she wants, clear expectations of a textbook, and you'd still have the outsourcing.

[samba]

Yes, it's light if done as is...and I'm okay with that. My dd is a young 7th grader who dislikes history. She's doing Exp-1815 self-paced this year and it's been great for her. This is the first year ever that I don't have to prod and nag about getting history done. There are weeks when I add something here and there: primary document, extra reading like Trial and Triumph or some other history resource that I already own (that we've never gotten around to before), or a writing assignment. There are weeks when she does nothing extra. She's pushing herself in other areas (3 foreign lang, 3 instruments) plus all the goodies that come with logic stage (more writing, deeper lit, logic, etc).

 

I thought TOG was great but it absolutely was not a good fit for this child. I kept stripping away until what was left wasn't worth holding on to. I have found it much easier to start with something basic for a foundation and add what we want. This new plan is working so well for us that we'll continue next year with 1815-Present for 8th grade :w00t: and maybe even something like MFW for HS :w00t::w00t:. My dd has said more than once that this year has been her favorite so far and we've had no tears...except when I edit her writing :001_huh:. Now maybe we'll have time for all those things that look good :drool5:(Movies as Lit, Art of Poetry, Elegant Essay or W to W, WTM recs for rhetoric, etc).

 

Is my dd making wonderfully deep connections about her history? Probably not. But she wasn't making them before either because she didn't care and was racing through it just to get done. At least now she's getting a basic framework that is sticking in her mind.

 

That's my very long answer to your short question. ;)

 

Carolyn

 

Now there will be time (yeah, right :tongue_smilie:) for other things that look good (elegant essay, WTM rhetoric recommendations, and so on).

[G5052]

I was talking about the not really classes, but the things where they watch the little video with the tour guide people talking about the time period and have little quiz games and matching review games and maps and they sing the song about the card and so on. Is that what we're all talking about?

 

GVA, you have me worried now about the BJU! I suspected it would be just okay, nothing special. I wonder if I should rethink it and encourage her to do the VP. I do still think it's light though.

 

Yes, the live online class is lovely if you can swing it, but self-paced is good too. I actually had hoped mine would do the next live online class, but she's stressed about the homework load, so doing self-paced is a way to address that.

 

Classical Conversations Challenge A has a geography component, so doing the self-paced Veritas brings in the history portion. We have enjoy Challenge, but they are light on history. She's also an avid reader, so I'm not worried about having both the Challenge A and Veritas reading.

 

For BJUP, I had mine work independently on each chapter, and then we met to discuss as each chapter came to a close. I came ready to discuss the main points of the chapter and we did the end-of-chapter resources orally. She did the section questions and workbook on her own. It was fine, really. It was yet another crazy year here with family issues. For me, a curriculum that gets done trumps anything else. And it did get done.

 

My older one is doing live online Omnibus next year, so we'll see how that goes.

[Amy in KS]

Well, I guess it all depends on how the parent approaches the class. I require my child to write down all bold terms and main ideas while viewing the course. Think of it as college notetaking practice. We also screen print and study all of the maps. We have the cards and use some of the history source readings (Hakim, Kingfisher History)from the cards as well. There are lit suggestions as well. We also discuss. I imagine if a child is just in front of the computer, no writing, no discussing, no further reading it might be less effective. Personally, I think it is a wonderful tool.

[PeterPan]

Yes, my dd takes notes during it too.

[HappyGrace]

For me, a curriculum that gets done trumps anything else.

 

Yes, this is the point we're at too. And, like samba, history is not our main focus right now. Sometimes I think it's good to just git 'er done. I have noticed that each yr we have one or two subjects that are like that.

 

I think we could do the VP in a fleshed-out way, like Amy in KS said. But I think we'll prbly just go w/ the BJU. GVA, I like your idea of meeting to discuss after each chapter, thanks!