ebunny Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 We met an 'education consultant' yesterday to help us chart out some sort of a direction for DD (Homeschooling isn't recognized legally in India). Well, this lady is highly qualified and very experienced in her field. After she saw DD's test results, she was...for a lack of a better word..flippant. She said that DD scored "bright-normal" in the performance IQ (Overall IQ assessment is-very superior) and that there are many kids like DD who hit IQ test ceilings. Although she acknowledged that DD was progressing excellently at home, but said that we would have had the same degree of sucess with a bright child and DD's rapid advance in academia is not conclusive proof of her intellectual abilities. And her IQ levels doesn't necessitate pulling her out of school and homeschooling her. :confused: IOW, she implied that we probably were pushing DD to achieve certain milestones.:001_huh: And that DD might have some underlying unaddressed behavioral issues going on (because she hates school) .:confused: Feel totally discouraged.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 :lol: Sounds like your educational consultant has some issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Sounds like this lady just wants her in school. :glare: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychmom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 IMHO, this consultant's arguments don't make any sense. If there are "lots of kids who hit the IQ test ceilings" (which I think is highly doubtful) then that is evidence of a problem with the test, not evidence of the child's ability (or lack thereof). And if rapid academic progress combined with high IQ scores don't suggest something more than "bright normal" than what would? Does the consultant have some vested interest in discouraging parents like you? I would take her advice with a truckload of salt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) :grouphug: After she saw DD's test results, she was...for a lack of a better word..flippant. She said that DD scored "bright-normal" in the performance IQ (Overall IQ assessment is-very superior) and that there are many kids like DD who hit IQ test ceilings. Does she know about ceilings? Does she understand extended norm calculations etc? Kiddos who hit ceilings may easily look "bright-normal" to a stranger. If she has any experience, she should know this. And her IQ levels doesn't necessitate pulling her out of school and homeschooling her.Sounds to me like some hidden agenda at play here. Do you have access to any expat homeschooling communities there? Any possibility of alternative schools to circumvent the legal issues? Edited February 1, 2012 by quark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thanks Ladies. I can use all the hugs I get. The lady threw me for a spin. Sounds like this lady just wants her in school. :glare: :grouphug: That was my first impression too. IMHO, this consultant's arguments don't make any sense. If there are "lots of kids who hit the IQ test ceilings" (which I think is highly doubtful) then that is evidence of a problem with the test, not evidence of the child's ability (or lack thereof). And if rapid academic progress combined with high IQ scores don't suggest something more than "bright normal" than what would? Does the consultant have some vested interest in discouraging parents like you? I would take her advice with a truckload of salt! The lady implied that average/bright/above average (IQ 100-125) children would have the same results with parents like us. :grouphug: Does she know about ceilings? Does she understand extended norm calculations etc? Kiddos who hit ceilings may easily look "bright-normal" to a stranger. If she has any experience, she should know this. Sounds to me like some hidden agenda at play here. Do you have access to any expat homeschooling communities there? Any possibility of alternative schools to circumvent the legal issues? Great Idea! Thanks!! Can you explain a bit more about the bolded? The consultant was so confident that I want to gather all information I can get before I hit her with some 'proof'. (DDs academic work should've been proof enough...:glare:) Is rapid academic advancement possible with even middle range IQ and pushy parents?? Any stats that prove or disprove this theory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Can you explain a bit more about the bolded? The consultant was so confident that I want to gather all information I can get before I hit her with some 'proof'. (DDs academic work should've been proof enough...:glare:) Is rapid academic advancement possible with even middle range IQ and pushy parents?? Any stats that prove or disprove this theory? My son was tested with the WISC-IV. He hit a number of ceilings (19s, highest possible scaled scores, on the sub-tests) and had a number of 17-18s too. I had requested for raw scores and was able to use the Extended Norms scoring guidelines to compute the more likely FSIQ. It's been a while since I used the guidelines but I do remember the instructions being clear enough for this newbie-to-testing-mom to figure out. Unfortunately, my experience with rapid academic advancement in middle range IQ with pushy parents is only anecdotal. I've heard the kids may advance rapidly but hit a wall later on. How rapid and how much later, I'm afraid I don't know. I know this sounds like jumping through more hoops but are there any out-of-level achievement tests your DD could take so no one thinks it's all just proud mommy stuff? By nature, I detest having to prove to anyone what my son can do but sometimes, it's necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't know anything about India schools or where your child is at. If your child was here and going into first grade and was already reading easy chapter books and knew her addition and subtraction facts, there would be no reason to go to school. You could make the argument that if she did level out, in say third grade, then you would put her in. That would be very stressful for you and your child, to try and stay ahead, but at least it would buy you time. She WILL level out if you put her in school, because she won't be learning at her rate, she will be stuck with the class. If this evaluator claims to have seen children level out again and again, this is why! I would get the scope and sequence for your schools and see what grade your child would need to be placed in, to make academic growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It may also be a cultural thing. We have several friends from India, and while they have their children in traditional schools, they ALL afterschool heavily and have children who perform above grade level-and none of them believe that their child is gifted or advanced. They talk about their children being hard workers and studying well. If the expectation is that children of educated adults will be above level and will study extensively regardless of what is happening at school, and that there's no such thing as "giftedness", only hard work, and homeschooling isn't seen as an option, it may be that no IQ score would be sufficient to convince her. I don't know if "I'm the parent, and I get final say" will work or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It may also be a cultural thing. We have several friends from India, and while they have their children in traditional schools, they ALL afterschool heavily and have children who perform above grade level-and none of them believe that their child is gifted or advanced. They talk about their children being hard workers and studying well. If the expectation is that children of educated adults will be above level and will study extensively regardless of what is happening at school, and that there's no such thing as "giftedness", only hard work, and homeschooling isn't seen as an option, it may be that no IQ score would be sufficient to convince her. I don't know if "I'm the parent, and I get final say" will work or not. That is a really good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachsr Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It may also be a cultural thing. We have several friends from India, and while they have their children in traditional schools, they ALL afterschool heavily and have children who perform above grade level-and none of them believe that their child is gifted or advanced. They talk about their children being hard workers and studying well. I agree wholeheartedly!! I have had a hard time coming to terms with the fact that my son has been labelled gifted at school. To the OP - is it possible or worthwhile to get a second opinion ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Given that the typical school instruction is aimed at kids in the middle range (90-110 IQ) then yes, I do think that kids who are in the 120's for IQ will be able to accelerate through the curriculum. However, I don't see how that is relevant to your personal decision to HS. Working individually with your child will allow you to tailor the challenge level to her needs, whatever label some outsider might choose to give her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I do not understand what does your daughter's score on any such test have to do with your decision, as a parent, to homeschool? :confused: If she was consistently falling behind in school content without any medical / SN excuse, then it should be relevant for her to make that observation. If the child is progressing as expected or better, why even bring up the whole dubious, at best, IQ issue? Who cares, if you are obtaining equivalent or better results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I am guessing the homeschool laws in India are not as favorable as elsewhere. ;) Maybe she needs this person to sign off on her homeschooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychmom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Quote: The lady implied that average/bright/above average (IQ 100-125) children would have the same results with parents like us. What I meant by my previous post was that if the above is true, then the problem is with the test, because it is not distinguishing between those categories. A decent test will at least distinguish between average and superior. They don't top out at 125. (And by the way, the range you mention is quite large and you would expect to see a pretty big difference between the 100 kid and 125 kid). So if the test they used can't discriminate gifted from bright normal kids, they need to use a different test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I am guessing the homeschool laws in India are not as favorable as elsewhere. ;) Maybe she needs this person to sign off on her homeschooling. Agree with above. The OP clearly states homeschooling is not recognized in India. She lives in India. Hence, her quandary. If she can prove that her child is working way above normal and is not bright-normal, she might be able to pursue some kind of alternative educational path for her DD. I am guessing consulting this lady was to find that alternative but the lady has instead thrown her for a loop. C'mon you guys, some of the responses she's receiving here seem overly judgmental. Cut her some slack. Edited February 1, 2012 by quark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Quote: The lady implied that average/bright/above average (IQ 100-125) children would have the same results with parents like us. What I meant by my previous post was that if the above is true, then the problem is with the test, because it is not distinguishing between those categories. A decent test will at least distinguish between average and superior. They don't top out at 125. (And by the way, the range you mention is quite large and you would expect to see a pretty big difference between the 100 kid and 125 kid). So if the test they used can't discriminate gifted from bright normal kids, they need to use a different test. :iagree: Hope the OP has access to another, credible test. All the best ebunny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I do not understand what does your daughter's score on any such test have to do with your decision, as a parent, to homeschool? :confused: If she was consistently falling behind in school content without any medical / SN excuse, then it should be relevant for her to make that observation. If the child is progressing as expected or better, why even bring up the whole dubious, at best, IQ issue? Who cares, if you are obtaining equivalent or better results? :001_smile: Since I know that it's difficult to assess the intent of the person(you) behind the words on the internet, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I am homeschooling her because her learning needs aren't met at school. Her IQ test was done so that it would lend credibility to our reasons to homeschool. Also to serve as a "foot in the door" so to speak, when we request grade skipping in mainstream schools or alternative schools. Homeschooling is not "legally recognised" in India.Therefore, we approached the education consultant to chalk out an education plan for DD or to vouch for DDs abilities. Clear as mud? ;) I am guessing the homeschool laws in India are not as favorable as elsewhere. ;) Maybe she needs this person to sign off on her homeschooling. Agree with above. The OP clearly states homeschooling is not recognized in India. She lives in India. Hence, her quandary. If she can prove that her child is working way above normal and is not bright-normal, she might be able to pursue some kind of alternative educational path for her DD. I am guessing consulting this lady was to find that alternative but the lady has instead thrown her for a loop. C'mon you guys, some of the responses she's receiving here seem overly judgmental. Cut her some slack. Quote: The lady implied that average/bright/above average (IQ 100-125) children would have the same results with parents like us. What I meant by my previous post was that if the above is true, then the problem is with the test, because it is not distinguishing between those categories. A decent test will at least distinguish between average and superior. They don't top out at 125. (And by the way, the range you mention is quite large and you would expect to see a pretty big difference between the 100 kid and 125 kid). So if the test they used can't discriminate gifted from bright normal kids, they need to use a different test. The bolded. Thanks for the ideas Ladies..I appreciate it :001_smile:. Back to the drawing board for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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