All AP! Not for Me!

[Brenda in MA]

I saw this article posted on another forum I belong to, and I though it was interesting. We seem to have debates here periodically about balancing academic challenge with time to pursue passions.

 

Brenda

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gifted-ed-guru/201201/all-ap-not-me-why-gifted-students-shouldnt-take-the-highest-level-classes

[KarenNC]

Thanks, that was very interesting. I know I have consistently had to wrestle with myself on the subject of "enough" vs. "too much" and where to draw the line academically for my daughter. I can't imagine it will be easier as she moves toward high school!

[Carol in Cal.]

That's all well and good, but what about college admissions? My alma mater now has an incoming freshman class with an average 4.3 GPA (on a 4 point scale). You don't even get considered if you're not taking and excelling in honors and AP classes. The question isn't whether you will have a happy high school life. The question is whether you will get into a college that will enable you to get the education you need to pursue your passions during your adult life. I don't know what the right answer is. I think that high school/college life these days is far too competitive to be healthy. But it is what it is.

[Miss Marple]

Yes, this is the quandary. I seem to wrestle with this every semester. Knowing that one son can easily do something but typically wants to take the "easy way" how do I decide? If my son had a "passion" (and I cannot say that I have had any with a "passion") it would be so much easier. But what do you do if you have a gifted student who just seems to be lazy, whose passion is to play video games, work out, and hunt? I've backed off on some things in order to allow the hunting this season, but after that is over it is back to video games and working out.

 

So...how does one know when to back off? to allow the "step back"? What, if any, criteria does one use to determine this?

[snowbeltmom]

That's all well and good, but what about college admissions? My alma mater now has an incoming freshman class with an average 4.3 GPA (on a 4 point scale). You don't even get considered if you're not taking and excelling in honors and AP classes. The question isn't whether you will have a happy high school life. The question is whether you will get into a college that will enable you to get the education you need to pursue your passions during your adult life. I don't know what the right answer is. I think that high school/college life these days is far too competitive to be healthy. But it is what it is.

 

:iagree:

 

From what I have read, the mantra of the college admissions staff is that they want to see students taking the most rigorous courses available, and AP usually is considered the most rigorous. In addition, class rank is also very important in the college admissions game, and since APs are weighted more heavily than honors level classes, those (in B&M schools) that don't take APs at every opportunity will have a lower class rank.

 

It is so hard sometimes as homeschoolers because we have so many options I find it overwhelming at times. We have decided that our kids will take APs only in areas of interest. A good friend of mine has stated (gently) that by following that path, we are limiting our kids' academic futures. (All of her kids graduated high school with at least 13 AP credits and were accepted to highly selective schools, including Ivies.)

 

More than likely my friend is correct, and we are not following the path needed to get into the Ivy League. But this is the choice my oldest has made at this point. I don't want him to burn out before he leaves high school, and I think that making him spend an enormous amount of time on classes that he has very little interest in would produce major burnout and an unhappy kid.

[Riverland]

My oldest is now in college. During high school, the principal pushed HARD for her to take more AP classes. We had to repeatedly tell him "no." Yes, she could have handled them academically. But then she would have lost out on: sleep, her part-time job that she loved, sports, time with friends, down time, etc. She did take some AP's, just not the full load the school tried to push on her. Our school does not weigh them, so an "A" in a remedial class has the same weight as an AP "A."

 

And, yes, she still got into her first choice, very competitive college. Her application was well rounded with lots of extra-curriculars.

[Bluegoat]

My sister dropped out of an IB program before grade 12 because she wouldn't be able to continue to pursue dance, doing some teaching and belonging to the company.

 

She did get into a good university with a scholarship, and continued to dance there in a company, and she got an instructor certification and taught an adult beginner class and volunteered to teach a class to at risk teens.

 

I don't think she would have said that getting into a better university for her undergraduate degree would have been worth giving up dancing. She's doing a professional degree for the next year and doesn't have time to dance, but I expect it to be a life-long pursuit for her.

 

However, our university climate seems radically different here than in the US - pretty much all the schools are considered good and respectable and worth going to, and with decent marks and a well-rounded life people will get in. (In fact, I know a fellow from my well-respected liberal arts college who got in as a high school drop-out.)

[Gwen in VA]

I agree with the article -- just because a student CAN doesn't mean he SHOULD.

 

However, the article doesn't discuss college admissions (as a previous poster noted). The article also doesn't discuss merit aid, which for many of us is essential.

 

For any of you who are interested in the idea of a student doing LESS with certain academics so he can focus MORE on developing his gifts and passions, I strongly recommend the book "How to Be a High School Superstar."

[elegantlion]

I agree with the article -- just because a student CAN doesn't mean he SHOULD.

 

However, the article doesn't discuss college admissions (as a previous poster noted). The article also doesn't discuss merit aid, which for many of us is essential.

 

For any of you who are interested in the idea of a student doing LESS with certain academics so he can focus MORE on developing his gifts and passions, I strongly recommend the book "How to Be a High School Superstar."

 

I just started reading that this week. It's been very interesting so far. I plan on having ds read it over the summer.

[moki4]

Just remember some kids enjoy the challenge of ap's!

[Riverland]

Just remember some kids enjoy the challenge of ap's!

 

Very true. My daughter did enjoy science and history ap because she was interested in these subjects and there were some great teachers. However, she did not want to take ap for subjects where she lacked interest or there were poor teachers.

[8filltheheart]

Yes, this is the quandary. I seem to wrestle with this every semester. Knowing that one son can easily do something but typically wants to take the "easy way" how do I decide? If my son had a "passion" (and I cannot say that I have had any with a "passion") it would be so much easier. But what do you do if you have a gifted student who just seems to be lazy, whose passion is to play video games, work out, and hunt? I've backed off on some things in order to allow the hunting this season, but after that is over it is back to video games and working out.

 

So...how does one know when to back off? to allow the "step back"? What, if any, criteria does one use to determine this?

 

I would not even think about attempting to force a child to take APs that didn't want to. Not every student needs to take college level classes in high school. They are a lot of work and take effort.

 

I have had kids go both ways. My 10th grader would be bored to tears w/o AP type challenges. His older sister would absolutely have been crushed under a course that relies so heavily on one single test as an indicator of "success."

 

If I had a child that was not motivated to do APs, I would eliminate those types of colleges as possible matches. The kids that love APs and are high achievers are going to be the students populating the campus. Your student would probably not like the atmosphere of that type of campus.

 

FWIW, there are colleges to meet all types of students. So far only 1 of all my kids would do well on an "over-achievers anonymous" type school. My other kids have different personalities and different objectives.

 

(but we also expect our kids to take on decisions that impact their future and have ownership over those decisions by the typical AP age.)

[romeacademy]

That's all well and good, but what about college admissions? My alma mater now has an incoming freshman class with an average 4.3 GPA (on a 4 point scale). You don't even get considered if you're not taking and excelling in honors and AP classes.

 

So I'm just wondering what happens if your child's school doesn't offer AP classes? DD attends a small, classically oriented school that currently doesn't designate any classes as AP. Their intent is for most classes to be taught at that level so kids would be prepared to take AP exams. DD does not test well, so we haven't decided whether or not she'll attempt any of the AP exams.

 

Just curious how colleges might view that. Doesn't sound like graduates are having trouble getting accepted, but I don't know how many have applied at some of the super selective schools.

[Trilliums]

From what I have read, admissions personnel consider the student's achievements in context of what was available to them. So, they might gauge how the student challenged themselves while taking into consideration AP classes were not available.

 

I recently was speaking to a mom whose son (9th grade) attends the local public school full time. According to the mom, the guidance counselor said that the non-AP classes were for underachievers. :confused: Say whaaat?

 

Really wondering what the best course is for DS. I appreciated the other thread on CC versus AP classes, as CC classes or university classes are a definite option for him, and are definitely of interest to him. Our neighbor's son (accepted to MIT and Caltech, attended the public school high school) took classes in Computer Sciences at the state Univ through the high school.