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Please write HSLDA-ask "cancel Berlin" meeting...


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Help!!! The shoe is on the other foot!

 

Please write to HSLDA!!! Ask them to change the location of the Global Conference to a location outside Germany.

 

People in Germany and Europe have been asking HSLDA to NOT hold their Global Conference in Berlin this fall. But HSLDA isn't listening!

 

Please 'bump' this message up to keep it current on the forum.

 

There are some people who want to hold the conference in Berlin, but lots of people in very precarious home education situations in a country where home education is illegal, DO NOT think it wise to hold the conference in Berlin.

 

There are many reasons not to:

 

1. Berlin is a 'state' which has been known to show up at the door of a person who had home educated in another state and was moving to Berlin to put her child into school. This person and her child have now been put into a home where they have to sleep on separate floors (under guard basically). How did they know she was arriving? Why do that to someone who had officially registered her child in a school? There are families there who have lost custody of their children!

 

HSLDA cannot guarantee protection from surveillance by German authorities at this meeting. That means many of the individuals they are supposed to support, probably would not feel free to attend.

 

German authorities have pursued home educators who have left Germany to try to bring back home educated children to German to place them in foster care....

 

2. People in precarious positions feel it could anger the government and endanger the grass roots individuals and groups that have positive relationships with their local authorities and therefore they could lose their freedom.

 

3. Lack of transparency - the idea originated at an HSLDA meeting in the US. People protested on the street when HSLDA helped back a meeting in the Netherlands several years ago. Unless they hide their involvement, there could be lots of negative press in a country which is against "parallel societies". But if they are not transparent, then they are being 'deceptive' which is not right either. Plus it could also be found out and have other negative effects.

 

4. HSLDA says they want to influence politicians, by inviting politicians....but German people on the ground in Germany (clearly different people than the people HSLDA is meeting with) think this will not have the desired effect because German politicians are not like US politicians.

 

5. HSLDA does not seem to read "German" politics or politicians or judges very well as so far, to my knowledge, they have not had a positive outcome for the trials they have been involved in....And even if there are one or two that I have somehow missed, there are more that they have lost. They only thing they have done successfully as far as I know is to support the move of the Romeike family to the US. So far, there has not been positive change in Germany from that though.

 

6. The 'top down' method (by law) of changing the home education system has not worked, so there are many German home educators who want to do the 'bottom up' approach, meaning slowly influence people and authorities around them and have greater and greater positive effects for the movement.

 

7. There are major and minor home education organizations which do not think the meeting should happen in Berlin against the wishes of German home educators eg www.BVNL.de, Les enfants d'abord (France), cise.fr, Learning Unlimited, ALE, The Otherwise Club, and others. Some don't want it to happen in Europe at all. Others are open to it being elsewhere in Europe (but not usually their country! They say any country where home educators aren't threatened by it).

 

8. HSLDA sent around a form asking who was interested in this meeting months ago. The problem? The form did not get to the people who don't have any connection to HSLDA and those who are most against HSLDA involvement in Europe (for past reasons that we won't go into here). So their opinion about the viability of this meeting and the worthwhileness of this endeavor was not asked.

 

It feels 'imperialistic' for them to just come in and hold this meeting without real concensus among home educators in the country. They should have met with the real grassroots people who have done it, are doing it, and their children who are now grown up and want to home educate as well, not their limited list of contacts.

 

9. Germany is a country where authorities do not understand that "Parents having the right to decide their children's education" is a human right - even though they signed the UN Declaration for Human Rights. There are judges who are just determined to not let this freedom occur and come up with all kinds of excuses. And people do not believe that this meeting will change their minds positively.

 

There are more reasons, and more complicated reasons - but I don't want this to get too long...

 

If you want to propose something for HSLDA to do - propose that they help religiously neutral speakers such as Gordon Neufeld get speaking dates at European universities so that his ideas of the problems of peer pressure and other speakers who know the problems of 'school' or benefits of home education become well known, so that HE is not just seen as a 'far right' affair.

 

Here are contact details: Please write, email, or call. And if you are an HSLDA member, please mention that.

 

Home School Legal Defense Association

Email address:

international@hslda.org

 

Mailing address:

P.O. Box 3000

Purcellville, VA 20134

 

Phone: (540) 338-5600

Fax: (540) 338-2733

Joan

Edited by Joan in Geneva
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The Human Rights and Rights of the Child declarations from the UN are 2 different things entirely.

 

Yes, this is true.

 

It is clearer in the Human Rights document that parents should be in charge.

 

I thought HSLDA was against the UN Convention on the Rights of a Child? I know some have complained that the declaration itself is a ban on homeschooling.

 

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/200906161.asp

 

That is HSLDA's opinion, and maybe it would be true in the US, but in Europe, people use (or try to use) the CRC to support home education. There are passages which could be used.

 

But for countries like Germany, they just muscle their way to their desired outcome, no matter the declaration support. The European human rights document is also for parental rights. Yet that was not upheld in Strasbourg by the European court...

 

When the most powerful country speaks, and the ship is almost sinking.....

 

Joan

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OMG. *face palm* I never was a fan of HSLDA but seriously? They truly think eveyone should be just like them. Not only in the US but in the entire world. What nitwits. Take a freaking anthropology class or something. Also, don't mess with Germany. Just don't.

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They have been hiding things, eg not announcing where it was going to be until only recently - to people (who they thought might object esp in Germany) in Europe...people feel this has been deceptive too...

 

It is called Global Home Education Conference 2012 - GHEC 2012.

 

The site they will use as far as I know is this - but it is not developed yet...

 

They are still looking for funding, etc.

 

Joan

Edited by Joan in Geneva
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Thank you. I truly can't believe the audacity, really.

 

From their about us:

 

"Home School Legal Defense Association is a nonprofit advocacy organization established to defend and advance the constitutional right of parents to direct the education of their children and to protect family freedoms. Through annual memberships, HSLDA is tens of thousands of families united in service together, providing a strong voice when and where needed"

 

Last I heard Germany didn't use the US Constitution as part of their government. :glare:

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Once again, they live up to my opinion that they are boneheads.

 

Ok, so they are trying to do something in another country where HSing is illegal, where they do not have the same idea of parental rights and freedoms, against the ACTUAL WISHES of those who are trying to change opinions (and therefore, eventually, laws), through tactics that are proven to be ineffectual, in a place where they *might* follow people who attend and mess with them.... UGH!!!! I think I understand what they are trying to do, but it is ignorant and stupid.

 

Seriously, H$LDA is so tone deaf.

 

 

I would think that the best Global home education conference should be in a place that is friendly to homeschooling. I wonder if you need to sign a statement of faith to attend? ;)

Edited by radiobrain
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OMG. *face palm* I never was a fan of HSLDA but seriously? They truly think eveyone should be just like them. Not only in the US but in the entire world. What nitwits. Take a freaking anthropology class or something. Also, don't mess with Germany. Just don't.

 

:iagree:

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I wonder how US authorities would react if a large organization from another country decided to hold a big conference with the purpose of promoting an activity that is against the law in this country.

 

Yes, I get the wishful thinking behind it and I do think it would be nice if homeschooling was legal, but this is stupid and will cause more harm then good.

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I could actually see the validity of an outside organization having a conference in a foreign country if they felt basic human rights were being infringed in that nation.

 

That said, the fear-mongering and dishonesty that typify the HSLDA, and the non-homeschooling issues they insinuate themselves in, makes it an organization I hold in contempt.

 

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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I wonder how US authorities would react if a large organization from another country decided to hold a big conference with the purpose of promoting an activity that is against the law in this country.

 

 

 

I know! How about if an organization from the Netherlands came here holding a conference about how marijuana should be legal in the U.S. That would start something. :D

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I responded in the other thread but I'll repeat it here.

 

I don't think this will stop the HSLDA because I don't think they're concerned about homeschooling in Germany or Europe. They're concerned with driving membership and certain political concerns in the USA and any negative results from this conference will only help them by providing content for their newsletters to scare and/or enrage members/potential members.

 

If they truly cared bout homeschooling in Europe they would have adjusted their approach there years ago.

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I don't think this will stop the HSLDA because I don't think they're concerned about homeschooling in Germany or Europe. They're concerned with driving membership and certain political concerns in the USA and any negative results from this conference will only help them by providing content for their newsletters to scare and/or enrage members/potential members.

EXACTLY. "The US could be next! Your rights are at risk! You need us to protect you!" :glare:

 

Jackie

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My SiL and her family had to flee Germany a few years ago to escape jail and fines for homeschooling their children.

 

Yes, there are many more cases too.

 

I would think that the best Global home education conference should be in a place that is friendly to homeschooling.

 

Please email and propose this - and get your friends to as well:001_smile:.

 

(and subsequent posters). oopS! My mistake for reading too quickly.

 

That's ok - the answers can help others as well who might have misread.

 

Yes, I get the wishful thinking behind it and I do think it would be nice if homeschooling was legal, but this is stupid and will cause more harm then good.

 

Yes, please write them and get your friends to as well!

 

I could actually see the validity of an outside organization having a conference in a foreign country if they felt basic human rights were being infringed in that nation.

 

Yes, but when the people's liberty could be jeopardized by attending, then it is not really supporting those people on the ground.

 

bumping for the evening crowd.

 

THANK YOU!

 

If they truly cared bout homeschooling in Europe they would have adjusted their approach there years ago.

 

They have changed in some ways -eg they are inviting religiously neutral speakers - but they need to change more - by respecting the opinions of German home educators and consulting them first.

 

Do they even have lawyers who can legally practice in Germany?

 

They find people there and work with them.

 

 

EXACTLY. "The US could be next! Your rights are at risk!

 

Please email them!

 

Joan

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OMG. *face palm* I never was a fan of HSLDA but seriously? They truly think eveyone should be just like them. Not only in the US but in the entire world. What nitwits. Take a freaking anthropology class or something. Also, don't mess with Germany. Just don't.

 

 

We were members of HSLDA for years. We quit when they started telling people who the "biblical" candidates for president were and started their own PAC to support a specific candidate.

 

From everything we read and saw, I do not think it would be exaggerated to say that they probably believe they have a biblical mandate to carry out in Germany. They truly believe God is on their side and can give you proof to that effect. It will take a lot of pressure from the right kind of people to get them to change their minds. Because, you know, the devil doesn't want them to accomplish their goals. :tongue_smilie:

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We were members of HSLDA for years. We quit when they started telling people who the "biblical" candidates for president were and started their own PAC to support a specific candidate.

 

From everything we read and saw, I do not think it would be exaggerated to say that they probably believe they have a biblical mandate to carry out in Germany. They truly believe God is on their side and can give you proof to that effect. It will take a lot of pressure from the right kind of people to get them to change their minds. Because, you know, the devil doesn't want them to accomplish their goals. :tongue_smilie:

 

Yep. I think you are right on the money. Which is why the most influencial letters will come from their conservative members...people who are on their side 99% of the time. Everyone should write them but ESPECIALLY those people should write them. Problem is, are those members aware that this is a bad idea or have they bought into HSLDA's rhetoric on this issue?

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E-mail sent:) I hope they do reconsider the location!

 

Thank you!

 

It will take a lot of pressure from the right kind of people to get them to change their minds.

 

Yes - but even letters/emails from anyone will still tell them people are watching.

 

Bumping...

 

Thank you!

 

:001_huh: Wow, this is the first I'm seeing this. It seems all kinds of wrong. (And I don't think saying that is part of my massively anti HSLDA bias either.)

 

Please bump occasionally so others will see too:001_smile:

 

the most influencial letters will come from their conservative members...people who are on their side 99% of the time. Everyone should write them but ESPECIALLY those people should write them. Problem is, are those members aware that this is a bad idea or have they bought into HSLDA's rhetoric on this issue?

 

Hopefully at least some of the points will cause concern....and get people to write - it can be an English exercise and a discussion point with the children - how cultural differences can mean that what would seem like a natural activity in the US, is not the same thing in another country where HE is illegal...

 

Joan

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I responded in the other thread but I'll repeat it here.

 

I don't think this will stop the HSLDA because I don't think they're concerned about homeschooling in Germany or Europe. They're concerned with driving membership and certain political concerns in the USA and any negative results from this conference will only help them by providing content for their newsletters to scare and/or enrage members/potential members.

 

If they truly cared bout homeschooling in Europe they would have adjusted their approach there years ago.

 

:iagree::iagree:

I do hope they reconsider the location for this event, unfortunately my observation of their organization tells me it is unlikely.

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I do hope they reconsider the location for this event, unfortunately my observation of their organization tells me it is unlikely.

 

"Hope" is very important.

 

If I didn't believe it possible to get a change - I wouldn't be asking people to write....

 

I have to say that I don't think calling is working...as I've tried to organize a call two times already and it keeps getting postponed or today - no word...

 

So - whoever reads this now - please write!

 

I think it is very important that American members of HSLDA are aware of this controversy about the location of the meeting. If you didn't hear about it - how would you know?....Please tell them you are aware!

 

Thank you!

Joan

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I did get to talk with HSLDA -

 

We discussed the security of Berlin - but disagree about potential problems (and I've encouraged a German person familiar with Berlin to email him)

 

We discussed how having politicians there will or will not change things - and I've encouraged someone familiar with this to write him more concretely...

 

We discussed numbers of people who want to hold vs do not want it held in Berlin - and I've written a separate email naming organizations and individuals...

 

There is the possibility that the meeting will be held in another country - the board is going to discuss it....

 

I have learned about general funding - here is the report of how money is used...

 

Joan

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