If you self-identify as a Christian, is using an X for Christ (e.g., Xmas) offensive?

[PrincessMommy]

You know, I can understand that. I guess I choose to look at people like that as appropriating something about which they have no understanding and using it in an ignorant way. So, I choose to pity that ignorance. :)

 

I agree... we shouldn't allow those who are ignorant to change the meaning to suit them.

[8circles]

Not only not bothered, I like it.

[Carol in Cal.]

Christians make up 80% of the religious population in America according to the latest PEW report.

 

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

 

It's not nice to have your faith mocked. But when you're being mocked, it may be come consolation to remember that there are very few to actually mock you compared with the number of "you" being mocked. Approximately 80% to 20%, assuming all of those 20% are interested in mocking Christians.

 

I am Christian, and I avoid mocking other Faiths. It's rude. And I associate the use of x for Christ with mocking of the Christian Faith, which is rude also. That is all.

[twoxcell]

Does not bother me at all. I assume that if someone uses "X" they are fully aware it stands for Christ. :D

If that is truely the case it wouldn't offend me but the times I have seen it used for XMas I highly doubt the person new anything about Latin forms. In those cases it was used to remove Christ.

[Bluegoat]

If that is truely the case it wouldn't offend me but the times I have seen it used for XMas I highly doubt the person new anything about Latin forms. In those cases it was used to remove Christ.

 

Or just as a shorter form that is widely accepted.

[mcconnellboys]

Exactly. "X" means Christ....

[Carpe]

I think people who want to take the Christ out of Christmas call it Yule. YMMV.

 

I didn't vote because I'm not Christian. It looks funny to me but in a discussion where one needed to use the word Christian or Christmas or Christianity or another similar word numerous times, I can see the use as a shorthand. In fact by the end of that sentence I feel like I've written Christ a few too many times.

[Laurie4b]

Please only vote if you self-identify as a Christian if you don't mind. It was stated in another thread that "most" Christians find X-mas X-ianity offenisve -- that it "takes the Christ out" of the words, and is "atheistic." Others commented that it's not offensive to them, as Christians, because the "X" means "Christ." So, how do you vote? I know how I feel, and I know how I think the poll will turn out -- but I'm interested to see actual results.

 

Feel free to comment with "other" thoughts, but for the sake trying to see if the statement "most Christians find this offensive," I'm only including Yes and No for replies. Thanks!

 

It bothered me many years ago when I thought it was an English X, which has the connotation of marking something out. When I found out it was the Greek X and an abbreviation for Christ, I had no problem with it.

[kalanamak]

 

I am only annoyed when I know someone is using the x deliberately because they think "Christ" is a dirty word.

 

How do you know they feel that way?

Do you know many of these people?

[QuirkyKapers]

Doesn't bother me.

[tomandlorih]

I do not personally use those "shortened" versions.. and x-mas is less bothersome than xtian which I had never ever seen used or heard of before but I'm not offended by it.

[extendedforecast]

I couldn't vote because while I feel strongly about the words' spellings, it is not for religious reasons that I wish people would just spell the word out. It is the same reason that I prefer okay to OK, through to thru, and light to lite. As for the idea that christ is crossed out, I don't see how the x stands for christ, nor do I think people spell it Xmas with the intent of eliminating christ. So I guess I'm undecided.

[OrganicAnn]

I just assumed that people who were offended didn't know that X stands for Christ. Just like many don't know that the -mas in Christmas is for the Mass celebration.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I'm not offended by folks who use such short hand.

 

There are many places where using it is perhaps a bit lazy. But I still can't get worked up enough about it to be offended.

[KungFuPanda]

Doesn't bother me. I can solve for X :D

[faith_hope_love]

Doesn't bother me. I can solve for X :D

 

:lol:

[ElizaG]

Doesn't bother me. I can solve for X :D

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Thank you; this will be good to remember the next time I run into "xtian," etc., in a would-be insulting context.

 

And yes, sometimes I'm 100% sure it's meant to be insulting, because some people admit to it outright (in situations where they don't think any Christians would find out). But I'd rather not give specific examples, because I don't want to dwell on this stuff, let alone promote it.

[JessReplanted]

Doesn't both me at all. In college, I learned that the X is similar to the Greek symbol which stands for Christ. After that point, I used the symbol as an abbreviation when taking notes. ;)

[Mimm]

Does not bother me at all.

[Caitilin]

Doesn't bother me. I can solve for X :D

 

I adore this! :D:D

[milovany]

Doesn't bother me. I can solve for X :D

 

:thumbup:

[shinyhappypeople]

How do you know they feel that way?

Do you know many of these people?

 

I don't run into this issue a lot. But, yes, it's blatantly obvious with a few certain people in my immediate world. And in the online world I've occasionally run across people with the attitude of refusing to write out C-h-r-i-s-t (or Jesus, for that matter) because his name is so deeply offensive to them. It's pretty sad, actually.

 

It's not a big issue in my life, and I don't let it ruin my day. But, yes, coming from certain people, it's offensive to me. With this issue: intent is everything.

[RanchGirl]

On a somewhat related topic, what's with G-d? I see it used a lot on this forum. Surely we are allowed to say the word 'God' on this forum. If not, I don't see how removing the o makes a difference??

 

I've seen it used in some cases where it appeared to be like using 'Xtian' -- an atheist's cheap trick for mocking faith, but I've also seen some who didn't appear to be intending to offend, they genuinely seem to think this is how one should refer to God.

[RanchGirl]

I don't run into this issue a lot. But, yes, it's blatantly obvious with a few certain people in my immediate world. And in the online world I've occasionally run across people with the attitude of refusing to write out C-h-r-i-s-t (or Jesus, for that matter) because his name is so deeply offensive to them. It's pretty sad, actually.

 

It's not a big issue in my life, and I don't let it ruin my day. But, yes, coming from certain people, it's offensive to me. With this issue: intent is everything.

 

It's so interesting, isn't it? His mere name has such an impact -- offensive, emotional, used daily as an expletive, but hey, he was just a nice guy who lived 2000 years ago, has nothing to do with my life.

[Spy Car]

On a somewhat related topic, what's with G-d? I see it used a lot on this forum. Surely we are allowed to say the word 'God' on this forum. If not, I don't see how removing the o makes a difference??

 

I've seen it used in some cases where it appeared to be like using 'Xtian' -- an atheist's cheap trick for mocking faith, but I've also seen some who didn't appear to be intending to offend, they genuinely seem to think this is how one should refer to God.

 

Seriously? :lol:

 

Practicing Torah observant Jews do not vocalize God's name (which in Greek is referred to as—but isn't actually—the "Tetragrammaton"), and replace it with terms like Adonai, El, or HaShem, depending on the context.

 

Many Orthodox extend this practice into English and prefer not to write out G-d so as to not inadvertently use God's name in vain.

 

It is a not an atheist's cheap trick.

 

Oy vey!

 

Bill

Edited January 29, 2012 by Spy Car

[kolamum]

On a somewhat related topic, what's with G-d? I see it used a lot on this forum. Surely we are allowed to say the word 'God' on this forum. If not, I don't see how removing the o makes a difference??

 

Drives me batty too... Regardless of the reason. ;)

[Spy Car]

Drives me batty too... Regardless of the reason. ;)

 

:banghead:

 

Bill

[Kate in Arabia]

I've seen it used in some cases where it appeared to be like using 'Xtian' -- an atheist's cheap trick for mocking faith.

I have never seen it used in that manner.

 

I always assume someone who writes it that way is Jewish, or an observant-of-Jewish-customs Christian (is that an official term?), or an I'm-talking-with-some-Jewish-people-so-I'm-trying-to-be-respectful-of-their-customs person.

[Heather in Neverland]

Xmas doesn't bother me too much. I thought people used it as a shorthand because they were too busy to write the whole word. I would shake my head at the crazy-busyness of people who couldn't take the time to write the whole word.

 

Xtian is another matter. I've only ever seen people use xtian who are very anti-Christian. It reminds me of Voldemort--He Who Must Not Be Named. As if Christ and Christians are so heinous that the word "Christ" can't even be seen in print.

 

:iagree:

 

Sure, the X means Christ in Greek but most of the people that I have seen using Xmas or xtian or xtianity do so in a derogatory fashion. So the original meaning may be innocent but its modern day connotation is not.

 

.

[Ipsey]

Drives me batty too... Regardless of the reason. ;)

 

You'd rather people degrade your (and their) God? (assuming you are a Christian) by spelling the word out?

 

Do you understand that Jews do not spell out the name because of their respect for the name of God?

 

Would you rather them break their own rules and sin against their (and your God?) by spelling out his name?

 

Fascinating.

[TracyR]

Its one thing to not speak the word God and replace it with G-d. That is fine and I think if that's Jewish law then we can all respect that. I would not expect an Orthodox Jew to write the word God since that is what they believe and practice.

BUT its another thing when you replace the word Christ. There is nothing in the Jewish law that they cannot spell out the word Christ in the words Christian , Christianity or Christmas. Especially if they believe that Christ ( Jesus ) was not the Messiah.

 

Just way, way, far to many people us this X now to take Christ out of the word. It no longer has the connotation it once had when it was originally used.

The original post is : Does using X to replace the word Christ in Christianity offensive to you?

Edited January 29, 2012 by TracyR

[ElizaG]

BUT its another thing when you replace the word Christ. There is nothing in the Jewish law that they cannot spell out the word Christ in the words Christian , Christianity or Christmas. Especially if they believe that Christ ( Jesus ) was not the Messiah.

In some branches of Judaism, people would consider it against their law to say or write the word Christ, as they are not supposed to say the names of false gods (which they believe Jesus Christ to be). As I understand it, it would depend on their rabbi's interpretation.

 

Of course, this is for pretty much the opposite reason that they don't spell out the name of God.

 

It does get confusing, from an outside perspective. :001_huh:

[Zebra]

No, I do not find it offensive.

 

My concern would lie with whether I am supposed to replace the word Christ with an X or not, not with what other people need to be doing.

[Lovedtodeath]

No, I do not find it offensive.

 

My concern would lie with whether I am supposed to replace the word Christ with an X or not, not with what other people need to be doing.

Wow. :thumbup1:

[ScoutTN]

It's just a shorthand based on the Greek letter "chi".

[Rosie_0801]

Some people might avoid using the word 'Christ' not because it is so offensive and ugly to them, but because some Christians can be pretty darn touchy at times and may have inadvertently created a taboo. That'd be weird, wouldn't it?

 

Merely hypothesising, not accusing anyone in particular of anything...

 

Rosie

[Ester Maria]

You'd rather people degrade your (and their) God? (assuming you are a Christian) by spelling the word out?

 

Do you understand that Jews do not spell out the name because of their respect for the name of God?

 

Would you rather them break their own rules and sin against their (and your God?) by spelling out his name?

Strictly speaking, what is forbidden is to utter the tetragrammaton. When it comes to writing, technically you can *write* it, but you cannot *destroy* the physical material on which you wrote it (there are places to deposit old holy books and other writings in which the name of God is spelled) or *erase* it. In Hebrew, in order to avoid writing the tetragrammaton, you write a single Hebrew letter - hey or daled are used - and then put an apostrophe and everybody knows that it stands for the Name.

 

The prohibiton against writing God's name on pieces of material which will be casually used goes much further, though - not even "parts" of it are written. In Hebrew, numbers can be written using a combination of letters - aleph is 1, bet is 2, etc., then yud is 10, and then you get 11 by combining yud and aleph, and so on. Now, the problematic numbers are 15 (yud + hey) and 16 (yud + vav) and they are actually written using a different logic - so instead of combining 10+5 (yud + hey), you combined 9+6 (tet + vav). This is official. In official use, some numbers are "circumvented" this way - another reason why Hebrew, as a language with its conventions, is extremely difficult to understand without some religious background, because a simple convention like that escapes logic if you do not know what is behind it religiously.

 

Now, apart from that, there is actually no reason not to write other "terms" for God which are not the actual Name, but many people take it further and omit or replace the letters. For example, Elokim is actually spelled with hey, not qof, BUT, many people will replace the letter so as not to write the exact term.

The practice has carried over to other languages in sense of committing similar small changes, like omitting the vowel - G-d instead of God, since even though a foreign word is not the actual Name, it is conventionally accepted as such.

 

Personally, I do not carry it over to other languages, but I do all the standard replacements in Hebrew. When other people carry it over, I assure you that they are not trying to drive other people batty :tongue_smilie:, but going by an opinion / preference that it be done in other languages too.

 

As to the topic, I am actually surprised to see that a substantial minority (obviously I did not vote, but I did click to see the results) does find X offensive. I spell it Christ and Christianity, but for some people I know it is a psychological thing to disassociate the historical negativity from the word, actually. I have never heard of a religious prohibition to spell it, however.

[TravelingChris]

Shows why I shouldn't be voting when I have bronchitis and probably not enough oxygen getting to my brain. I think I voted for the first but I meant I am a Christian and I am not offended since I know that the X is a Greek letter standing for Christ and used by early Christians.

[shinyhappypeople]

Strictly speaking, what is forbidden is to utter the tetragrammaton. When it comes to writing, technically you can *write* it, but you cannot *destroy* the physical material on which you wrote it (there are places to deposit old holy books and other writings in which the name of God is spelled) or *erase* it. In Hebrew, in order to avoid writing the tetragrammaton, you write a single Hebrew letter - hey or daled are used - and then put an apostrophe and everybody knows that it stands for the Name.

 

The prohibiton against writing God's name on pieces of material which will be casually used goes much further, though - not even "parts" of it are written. In Hebrew, numbers can be written using a combination of letters - aleph is 1, bet is 2, etc., then yud is 10, and then you get 11 by combining yud and aleph, and so on. Now, the problematic numbers are 15 (yud + hey) and 16 (yud + vav) and they are actually written using a different logic - so instead of combining 10+5 (yud + hey), you combined 9+6 (tet + vav). This is official. In official use, some numbers are "circumvented" this way - another reason why Hebrew, as a language with its conventions, is extremely difficult to understand without some religious background, because a simple convention like that escapes logic if you do not know what is behind it religiously.

 

Now, apart from that, there is actually no reason not to write other "terms" for God which are not the actual Name, but many people take it further and omit or replace the letters. For example, Elokim is actually spelled with hey, not qof, BUT, many people will replace the letter so as not to write the exact term.

The practice has carried over to other languages in sense of committing similar small changes, like omitting the vowel - G-d instead of God, since even though a foreign word is not the actual Name, it is conventionally accepted as such.

 

Personally, I do not carry it over to other languages, but I do all the standard replacements in Hebrew. When other people carry it over, I assure you that they are not trying to drive other people batty :tongue_smilie:, but going by an opinion / preference that it be done in other languages too.

 

As to the topic, I am actually surprised to see that a substantial minority (obviously I did not vote, but I did click to see the results) does find X offensive. I spell it Christ and Christianity, but for some people I know it is a psychological thing to disassociate the historical negativity from the word, actually. I have never heard of a religious prohibition to spell it, however.

 

That is fascinating. Thank you for explaining it so well.

[Ipsey]

Strictly speaking, what is forbidden is to utter the tetragrammaton. When it comes to writing, technically you can *write* it, but you cannot *destroy* the physical material on which you wrote it (there are places to deposit old holy books and other writings in which the name of God is spelled) or *erase* it. In Hebrew, in order to avoid writing the tetragrammaton, you write a single Hebrew letter - hey or daled are used - and then put an apostrophe and everybody knows that it stands for the Name.

 

The prohibiton against writing God's name on pieces of material which will be casually used goes much further, though - not even "parts" of it are written. In Hebrew, numbers can be written using a combination of letters - aleph is 1, bet is 2, etc., then yud is 10, and then you get 11 by combining yud and aleph, and so on. Now, the problematic numbers are 15 (yud + hey) and 16 (yud + vav) and they are actually written using a different logic - so instead of combining 10+5 (yud + hey), you combined 9+6 (tet + vav). This is official. In official use, some numbers are "circumvented" this way - another reason why Hebrew, as a language with its conventions, is extremely difficult to understand without some religious background, because a simple convention like that escapes logic if you do not know what is behind it religiously.

 

Now, apart from that, there is actually no reason not to write other "terms" for God which are not the actual Name, but many people take it further and omit or replace the letters. For example, Elokim is actually spelled with hey, not qof, BUT, many people will replace the letter so as not to write the exact term.

The practice has carried over to other languages in sense of committing similar small changes, like omitting the vowel - G-d instead of God, since even though a foreign word is not the actual Name, it is conventionally accepted as such.

 

Personally, I do not carry it over to other languages, but I do all the standard replacements in Hebrew. When other people carry it over, I assure you that they are not trying to drive other people batty :tongue_smilie:, but going by an opinion / preference that it be done in other languages too.

 

As to the topic, I am actually surprised to see that a substantial minority (obviously I did not vote, but I did click to see the results) does find X offensive. I spell it Christ and Christianity, but for some people I know it is a psychological thing to disassociate the historical negativity from the word, actually. I have never heard of a religious prohibition to spell it, however.

 

 

Thanks for fixing and clarifying. I knew that it was more or less the erasing or un-doing of the name that was the major sticking issue, but I was oversimplifying for the sake of making the point.

 

The actual facts of the issue, what you shared, are vastly superior.

 

Thank you.

[Kate in Arabia]

The prohibiton against writing God's name on pieces of material which will be casually used goes much further, though - not even "parts" of it are written.

For when it is written, or parts are written, do you have a protocol for how to dispose of the materials written on if that becomes necessary?

 

For Muslims, traditionally you are required to burn anything that has Allah's name on it (books, newspaper articles, magazines, etc. etc.). They have bins (look like recycling bins) at the masjids where you can drop off stuff if you don't have a means of taking care of it yourself. Some scholars have said that shredding the paper/material is sufficient. I *think* this only applies when it is written in Arabic.

 

I was thinking of this the other day because we received a wedding invitation with a prayer that had 'Allah' written in it - which is actually unusual here, usually they avoid that.

[milovany]

Kate, this is a bit different but along the same vein -- in our Christian tradition (Eastern Orthodox), if something has been blessed by a priest -- usually during a service, but not always -- we're not supposed to just toss it in the trash when its reached a time for disposal. We have a bin at church we can put things like this in, and then we burn the contents of this bin a couple times a year. Examples would be icons, flowers from the altar, cups used for holy water, any left over antidoron (a type of bread), etc. Some of these items could be disposed of a bit differently; for example, the water from the flower vases can be poured carefully in an area that will not receive foot traffic. The idea is not to treat as trash something that has been made holy/blessed.

[YaelAldrich]

In Jewish tradition, things that have the name of G-d or verses from the Bible, and stuff like that as well as things we use for holy purposes (the Four Species for Sukkot, candle wicks from Chanukah, etc), have to be buried in a Jewish cemetary).

 

See the links for more information.

http://www.ou.org/general_article/at_burial_of_destroyed_torah_scrolls_in_new_orleans_ou_delivers_words_of_co

 

[Ester Maria]

For when it is written, or parts are written, do you have a protocol for how to dispose of the materials written on if that becomes necessary?

Disposed in the synagogue and then buried.

Kate, this is a bit different but along the same vein -- in our Christian tradition (Eastern Orthodox), if something has been blessed by a priest -- usually during a service, but not always -- we're not supposed to just toss it in the trash when its reached a time for disposal. We have a bin at church we can put things like this in, and then we burn the contents of this bin a couple times a year. Examples would be icons, flowers from the altar, cups used for holy water, any left over antidoron (a type of bread), etc. Some of these items could be disposed of a bit differently; for example, the water from the flower vases can be poured carefully in an area that will not receive foot traffic. The idea is not to treat as trash something that has been made holy/blessed.

Wow. I did not know about this!

[simka2]

Kate, this is a bit different but along the same vein -- in our Christian tradition (Eastern Orthodox), if something has been blessed by a priest -- usually during a service, but not always -- we're not supposed to just toss it in the trash when its reached a time for disposal. We have a bin at church we can put things like this in, and then we burn the contents of this bin a couple times a year. Examples would be icons, flowers from the altar, cups used for holy water, any left over antidoron (a type of bread), etc. Some of these items could be disposed of a bit differently; for example, the water from the flower vases can be poured carefully in an area that will not receive foot traffic. The idea is not to treat as trash something that has been made holy/blessed.

 

When we were baptized I was sent home with all the towels , because we have the ability to wash them and dispose of the water in our garden beds. Then I line dried them, before washing them again (this time in the washer, but we have a grey water line that goes to a non-trampleable area) and finally the dryer.

 

I will be honest that I find something very healing in treating certain things with special sacredness.

[RanchGirl]

Seriously? :lol:

 

Practicing Torah observant Jews do not vocalize God's name (which in Greek is referred to as—but isn't actually—the "Tetragrammaton"), and replace it with terms like Adonai, El, or HaShem, depending on the context.

 

Many Orthodox extend this practice into English and prefer not to write out G-d so as to not inadvertently use God's name in vain.

 

It is a not an atheist's cheap trick.

 

Oy vey!

 

Bill

 

Bless your heart.

[Spy Car]

Bless your heart.

 

Is that one of those (non)atheist tricks? :D

 

Bill

Edited January 31, 2012 by Spy Car

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I know quite a few atheists and using xianity and xian doesn't even register on their radar. Most of them know a little Greek and Latin and know what the 'x' stands for.

 

I find it humerous that some seem to say, "Yes, I get it that it is Greek, but I think that you are using x to be sneakily snarky and I get it and don't appreciate it!"

 

The local Unitarian minister has the last name of "Christian" and he signs his name Fred Xian. It is not because he wants to "keep Jesus out of his name". It is because he knows Greek and thinks it is a funny GeekyGreeky joke. :lol:

[TracyR]

In some branches of Judaism, people would consider it against their law to say or write the word Christ, as they are not supposed to say the names of false gods (which they believe Jesus Christ to be). As I understand it, it would depend on their rabbi's interpretation.

 

Of course, this is for pretty much the opposite reason that they don't spell out the name of God.

 

It does get confusing, from an outside perspective. :001_huh:

 

Hmm, so I guess it would be a bear to type out other gods when talking about other religions. Such as if you were talking about Greek mythology, Buddism, Hinduism, Pagan and so forth. Because they believe in 'false' gods too.

[Mynyel]

No, especially after watching this video...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua_lCH4wK4g

 

:D