Pre-Algebra Fence Straddlers Master Thread

[Pen]

Hello,

Thanks Pen....

For Grade 6 what do you prefer to use? Lial's BCM or Auffmann BM text CD?As planning to start CD Pre algebra in Grade 7 ....

Any specific place to buy Lial's BCM or Auffmann BM text CD in Toronto,Canada?

 

I like Auffmann way better than Lial's even if one were not going to do CD and just wanted to teach yourself from a text, I'd get Auffmann's.  

 

But, since it is the text for CD, and you want to do CD, I would think just to get the package deal from CD company (don't know how that works to send to Canada, but assume it is doable, especially if you do not need it rushed). It will include Auffmann's BCM text (unless that has changed since we got it), and solutions book, the CD videos, and phone/email support from Dana Mosely. Dana's brother (who mans the office) is also very helpful to talk to. He is not the "teacher" but he also is good at math and can give suggestions about what to get if there are questions.

 

The website also has helpful suggestions about how long to do math daily, notebooks, neatness, what the parent should do compared to what to rely on Dana/Uncle Buck for in terms of teaching (basically they have Dana be the teacher and the parent be the coach, grader, etc. on site).

[Rosepetal]

I like Auffmann way better than Lial's even if one were not going to do CD and just wanted to teach yourself from a text, I'd get Auffmann's.  

 

But, since it is the text for CD, and you want to do CD, I would think just to get the package deal from CD company (don't know how that works to send to Canada, but assume it is doable, especially if you do not need it rushed). It will include Auffmann's BCM text (unless that has changed since we got it), and solutions book, the CD videos, and phone/email support from Dana Mosely. Dana's brother (who mans the office) is also very helpful to talk to. He is not the "teacher" but he also is good at math and can give suggestions about what to get if there are questions.

 

The website also has helpful suggestions about how long to do math daily, notebooks, neatness, what the parent should do compared to what to rely on Dana/Uncle Buck for in terms of teaching (basically they have Dana be the teacher and the parent be the coach, grader, etc. on site).

Thanks a ton for Replying.....

Yes,I need actually CD video learning for kids so would grab CD Math....

A question that can students learn and do CD Maths independently?

Glad I asked here.............

[Pen]

Thanks a ton for Replying.....

Yes,I need actually CD video learning for kids so would grab CD Math....

A question that can students learn and do CD Maths independently?

Glad I asked here.............

 

That is what it is set up to do is to help them work independently or at least without needing the parent and instead relying on Dana Mosely. And my understanding is that it does work well that way for a lot of children/students, particularly because of the DVD's that can be gone over many times and Dana Mosely's availability for questions.

 

However, here it was just ending up that I did the teaching and answered any questions that needed to be answered, and that was not cost effective for CD. Sometimes I do use a video to go over something since videos remain patient indefinitely while I can get tired of re-explaining. And sometimes we use a variety of different video sources for different explanations.

 

My particular child seems to be doing better independently with Alcumus and then filling in with books and other materials as needed. That said, he had already done work out of both Auffmann's and CD for Basic Math and some Lial's Pre-A (I have a used book of that), so it is not entirely new to him and is so far mostly review that he is managing independently--though AoPS is new.

 

Also of importance is that I had maths through university engineering level calculus, so though I am very rusty now beyond what I use daily, math is something I can review and then help him with it when he needs that. Had that not been so, if I'd needed videos and so on to teach him and a real person available, I think the CD system would have been good for math for him. I did not have statistics though, and am considering getting the Chalkdust Statistics program so that I can learn that too.

 

You might want to see if your son would prefer Alcumus and the AoPS videos, which you can try for free. And you can get a free DVD sampler from CD to get a feel for that, and compare that to the videos from AoPS (also take a look at Khan videos). They all have very different styles. The thing CD has that the others do not have is an available person. Or like us, you might want to have a variety of resources available.

 

There are also online AoPS classes, but my understanding is that they move very very fast. If your son is very mathy though that might be something to consider. For mine, we are moving at best at a slightly advanced rate of progression, but not double speed.

[Rosepetal]

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Actually,I got my education out of States so need to buy Chalkdust Basic Math  program and other levels.Though I was good at Maths in my School but really afraid of AOPS Maths that if my kids need my assistance as that is for Mathy people and kids....If ds can do AOPS Pre algebra on his own relying on Alcumus and the AoPS videos then I could go for it...

I would like to ask that at what age did your kid finish  Auffmann's and CD for Basic Math and some Lial's Pre-A?

[Pen]

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Actually,I got my education out of States so need to buy Chalkdust Basic Math  program and other levels.Though I was good at Maths in my School but really afraid of AOPS Maths that if my kids need my assistance as that is for Mathy people and kids....If ds can do AOPS Pre algebra on his own relying on Alcumus and the AoPS videos then I could go for it...

I would like to ask that at what age did your kid finish  Auffmann's and CD for Basic Math and some Lial's Pre-A?

 

 

was working on it at 11...  will still turn to them if needed as he is working on AoPS ...

I didn't think of him as that mathy, it is interesting to read my posts earlier in this thread saying I did not think AoPS would be for us...

but...it seems like we enjoy it!

[dereksurfs]

was working on it at 11...  will still turn to them if needed as he is working on AoPS ...

I didn't think of him as that mathy, it is interesting to read my posts earlier in this thread saying I did not think AoPS would be for us...

but...it seems like we enjoy it!

 

This is good to hear Pen.  If people read back far enough they will also see that that I had my doubts about AoPS for ds12 initially.  It is like a beast of a program and a bit daunting when one first approaches it, especially if the parent and/or their child are not thrilled with its discovery approach which takes some getting used to.  I've had some parents refer to an older post I made and ask 'so why we are using it now?'  I guess I eased ds12 into it enough that it actually grew on him and he ended up liking it in the way a child might like trying to solve difficult puzzles.  That said I still feel its not for every child as a spine program.  Though that doesn't mean parts could not be used effectively with kids who are not exceptional at math.  The lectures are particularly well done and so that's how we introduced AoPS.  I think there is plenty of value in those alone for 'many' children.  In addition I think the text can also be used as supplemental for concept development and challenging problems.

[Rosepetal]

This is good to hear Pen.  If people read back far enough they will also see that that I had my doubts about AoPS for ds12 initially.  It is like a beast of a program and a bit daunting when one first approaches it, especially if the parent and/or their child are not thrilled with its discovery approach which takes some getting used to.  I've had some parents refer to an older post I made and ask 'so why we are using it now?'  I guess I eased ds12 into it enough that it actually grew on him and he ended up liking it in the way a child might like trying to solve difficult puzzles.  That said I still feel its not for every child as a spine program.  Though that doesn't mean parts could not be used effectively with kids who are not exceptional at math.  The lectures are particularly well done and so that's how we introduced AoPS.  I think there is plenty of value in those alone for 'many' children.  In addition I think the text can also be used as supplemental for concept development and challenging problems.

Great!It means we can use AOPS according to a child capability and slowly slowly beside CD Math series...

Are you guys also using AOPS workbook with its free videos?Can your dc do it independently or need your help for solving its exercises?

[Pen]

Great!It means we can use AOPS according to a child capability and slowly slowly beside CD Math series...

Are you guys also using AOPS workbook with its free videos?Can your dc do it independently or need your help for solving its exercises?

 

The videos so far as I know are free whether or not you get books. We can't access the videos well because we do not have high speed connection from home. I looked at some from the library and think my son may like them, but so far he has not seen any.

 

The AoPS videos are more...don't know a right word...jazzy and entertaining...than the CD videos. CD is like my own schooling where a teacher demonstrates and explains at a chalk board. In general, CD and Auffmann is very much the way I learned things myself, and so very easy for me to pick up. Dana is very straightforward and clear, and he repeatedly emphasizes the importance of clarity and neatness which was very helpful for me with my son to have someone other than me to say that.  I personally find Richard on the AoPS videos I saw less clear, mainly because I found his presentation distracting, but I think for my son raised in a more fast paced electronic age, he would probably prefer the AoPS presentation--and maybe if I had more time and not also the distractions of a public library I would come to like it more also. (I am not sure if this would help as an analogy, but to me Dana is sort of slow and methodical like Mr. Rogers, and Richard is sort of flashy and fast like Sesame Street.) My own actual favorite presentations tend to be Sal Khan's on Khan Academy, because there is no distracting teacher showing, and James Tanton who also has free videos available online, and somehow explains everything exactly in a way that makes meaningful sense to me--or at least managed to make Quadratics suddenly totally sensible.  Tanton has an Australian (I think) accent that I find easy to understand, but my son finds it hard. (BTW, I want Tanton's book or books as another resource.) Anyway, it is nice to have multiple options.

 

For us though, due to no fast internet, the only videos that help us at home are ones that like CD come on a DVD.

 

We first got AoPS Intro to Algebra books at the start of this year and began work on it together. It went well for the first few sections, and also my son loved the Game of Life at its beginning. Also some parts seem to just jive with him, like where some problems with exponents looked hard to me, he just laughed and said, no that one's easy, see they all cancel each other out, and since anything to the zero power is one, the answer is just one--for example.  But then as we got farther, it seemed like more review was needed, so we were using some more of Aufmann's and Lial's and so on. Having Aufmann's and Lial's and other books available is helpful, especially when more problems are needed, or review, or drill...but it is looking like despite my initial reservations, AoPS fits my son in many ways better. He prefers fewer, harder problems, for example.

 

Then my son started doing Alcumus (which we can get even with our slow connection speed). So far he has been completely independent on Alcumus.

 

I went ahead of him on my own account on Alcumus, though, and I could see that he would probably need to review certain topics beyond what just Alcumus gives--if nothing else, I saw that there were problems that I could solve, but that AoPS gives easier more elegant ways to do it than I was using. So I ordered the AoPS pre-A problems and solutions books. But he has not yet gotten to where they are needed, so I don't know if it will be independent. I think if we could access the videos so that my son would have Richard to explain things when needed, and if he got into using the Community Forums to ask questions of others, that would make it more likely to be fully independent.

 

I should also add that my son just turned 12, and this seems to be a time of increasing independence compared to 11. That is, "help me" or even "stay here next to me" even when not needing help, versus "leave me alone, I can do it myself" are as much emotional stages as having anything to do with what program is being used.

[Rosepetal]

Thanks for all your time and efforts...

Do Alcumus online videos have practice exercise also?(so that no need to buy AOPS Book-for supplementing purpose)

Could you guide me Khan Academy Prealgebra videos and its practice exercise ?

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/arithmetic

Is that the one?Would it be enough for supplementing for Pre algebra?

I have also seen Lucideducation online videos but have to buy its workbooks for practicing?

Any more suggestion.....

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I hope it is okay to bump this older thread. Just wanted to check in with you experienced parents to see how prealgebra went! I'm trying to decide what to do after ds finishes Singapore 5B (probably won't be until mid next year). He has done well with Beast Academy (and *I* like it), but he doesn't choose it when offered B.A. or Singapore. I was thinking of doing AoPS pre-algebra after Singapore, but now I'm wondering if I should do something else for pre-algebra (MUS algebra?) and then go to AoPS algebra later. Thoughts? He understand math concepts quickly, but his output is slow. He will need something that doesn't focus too much on output, but yet gives enough practice so he could (hopefully) have automaticity on skills - so he can work a little quicker in the long run. One reason Beast Academy worked well is that it made sense for him to go more slowly, whereas with Singapore I feel like I have to keep him going or he stalls out (mind wanders off... LOL). He might need the challenge of AoPS to keep his mind engaged. Do you think some kind of intermediary is necessary between Singapore 5B and AoPS?

 

Lily went straight from Singapore 5B to AoPS Pre-A. It's taken WAAAAAY longer than expected for many reasons--not all of which are related to math. Even so, it was the right choice for us, or at least it wasn't a horribly wrong one. ;) 

[Pen]

Thanks for all your time and efforts...

Do Alcumus online videos have practice exercise also?(so that no need to buy AOPS Book-for supplementing purpose)

 

Alcumus is the practice exercises. Go visit the AoPS site and look around.  Maybe sign up your son and have him try it. The first questions on Alcumus are adding, so he should be able to do that if he's in SM5. You/your son would have to judge what you need/don't need. I decided to get the pre-A books even though I had books from other companies. 

 

 

Could you guide me Khan Academy Prealgebra videos and its practice exercise ?

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/arithmetic  

 

 Often it is suggested to start at the beginning of Khan (adding etc.) and go on from there. Something like 8 correct answers in a row counts as mastering a subject so going from adding onward would not take long if the subjects are mastered -- and would pick up any gaps if not, which is part of the point of pre-A. As I recall, once a lesson is done, the computer suggests a new thing to move on to or to try it again or watch a video if it is not yet mastered. Again, you could just sign him up and see how it goes for him.

 

Is that the one?Would it be enough for supplementing for Pre algebra?

I have also seen Lucideducation online videos but have to buy its workbooks for practicing?

 

 

Never heard of it before.

 

Any more suggestion.....

 

[Halcyon]

Derek & Halcyon (and anyone else who has used Tablet Class) - are you saying that you feel the need to do another algebra program after Tablet Class? You don't feel like your dc are ready to move on after completing TC?

 

If so, are you feeling that it is incomplete somehow? Or just looking for more practice for young dc who have plenty of time before moving on?  I've recently taken a look at this program but would really like to here from someone whose kid has finished TC Algebra, about how well/completely it covers Algebra 1 and what they are ready for next.

 

 

Hey Rose-

TC is complete. I just happen to own AoPS and know it's challenging, and DS is young, so there's no rush. I thought it might be fun to "look at Algebra" from a different perspective given that we have time. I don't know though--DS might be algebra-ed out after this and ready to try out some Geometry. Me too, come to think of it. 

 

BTW, we are not finished with TC Algebra--we have about 3 months left or so, but we're also adding in more problems for reinforcement from A-Plus Notes for Beginning Algebra which we really like and assures me that he REALLY gets it. I am happy to say that he is having zero problems with the extra problems from the book, which makes me feel like he really is learning well with TC Algebra, kwim? I know too many moms (not on this forum!) who say their child has completed algebra, only to find out a few months down the road that their child actually retained very little, most probably because they just "did the worksheets" and didn't discuss, approach from other angles, or "sit" with the concepts a bit. So what I am saying is it seems that these children learned the steps to getting the right answer ("following the worksheet example") but when you throw them a fairly simple question a couple months later they have no idea where to begin. I am determined that won't happen with my son, or that I will do my darndest to prevent it. By using a couple of other books, approaching similar problems from different perspectives, it makes me more confident that he understands the material backwards and forwards. Then again, we have ALWAYS done this with math--used multiple texts and sources to make sure he hasn't just memorized "how to do the question the way his text taught him" but that he really knows how to think it through.

 

Anyway, long answer. :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Thanks.  Your response is especially helpful to me, because we approach math the same way.  ;)

[Pen]

...  So what I am saying is it seems that these children learned the steps to getting the right answer ("following the worksheet example") but when you throw them a fairly simple question a couple months later they have no idea where to begin. I am determined that won't happen with my son, or that I will do my darndest to prevent it. By using a couple of other books, approaching similar problems from different perspectives, it makes me more confident that he understands the material backwards and forwards. Then again, we have ALWAYS done this with math--used multiple texts and sources to make sure he hasn't just memorized "how to do the question the way his text taught him" but that he really knows how to think it through.

 

Anyway, long answer. :)

 

 

Thank you! Great justification for me to have overlapping programs! 

[Halcyon]

Thanks.  Your response is especially helpful to me, because we approach math the same way.  ;)

 

I could have guessed that. ;)

[Halcyon]

Thank you! Great justification for me to have overlapping programs! 

 

 

Oh, absolutely overlap. Especially in math. 

[Ethel Mertz]

This iconic thread needs to be bumped at least once a year. I just read the whole thread and changed my mind about which pre-algebra to use at least three times.

[dereksurfs]

This iconic thread needs to be bumped at least once a year. I just read the whole thread and changed my mind about which pre-algebra to use at least three times.

 

:laugh:  :lol:  :thumbup:  regarding changing one's mind three times.   :tongue_smilie:  I thought this thread was laid to rest.  But you have resurrected it from the archives.

[Halcyon]

Hehe blast from the past! DS12 successfully completed TC Pre-A and Alg, and will finish Geometry over the summer, as he is deep in the bowels of AoPS Counting And Probability right now, leaving now time for anything else. He will begin Alg 2 at Wilson Hill Academy in the fall.

[texasmama]

Fun to see this again.

 

Both of my boys completed AoPS pre-A last year.  Ds12 went on to AoPS A this year.  Ds14 started in AoPS A, crashed and burned, moved to Foerster's A, needed more help than I could give so saw a tutor for a month, then moved to Jann in Texas's online class in early February, where he is THRIVING for the first time this year.

 

Ds12 will go through Ch 13 of AoPS A, then begin alternating AoPS Geometry chapters with the remainder of AoPS A for however long that takes, probably two years?  Ds14 will take Jann in Texas's online Geometry class next year.

 

It is fun to see how we all wrestled with these decisions, made them, changed them or not and how it all ended up.  Good times.  :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

It's fun to read back over our thoughts and struggles.  But embarrassing to find typos!   :tongue_smilie:   We did end up doing what I fantasized about at some point, having a mishmash PreA year in 6th grade, using the old MM6 plus Zaccaro Real World Algebra plus Jousting Armadillos, with Alcumus for challenge problems.  We're now spending two years on a combined Algebra-pre Geometry, using primarily Jacobs so far, but we're on a break from the textbook and doing the Edx/School Yourself Algebra 1 and Geometry online courses.  I don't feel like we've made a ton of forward progress in Algebra yet this year, but we've really solidified basic skills, and learned a lot of new things in Geometry, plus made really important connections between the two.  I like not feeling rushed about math, deciding to take 2 years to complete this was a good choice.  I'm definitely looking at needing to outsource math by 9th grade, wherever we are at by this point.  So starting to straddle that fence now, plenty in advance! 

[maize]

I remember when this thread originally came up thinking prealgebra was still a long ways away; we jumped into it sooner than I expected because DD was bored with MM 6.

 

I was indecisive so we're using a mishmash of programs, though I doubt we will finish all of them. I'll be content if we get all the way through one :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

DD took 2 years to complete AoPS Pre-A. Two years partly due to home renovations/selling and two moves. That and.... um....needing, but not wanting, help with math.  I struggle with taking two years with AoPS being worth it. At the time I thought it was, but now I'm not so sure. She got to Chapter 7, I think, of AoPS Algebra before my dh and I decided it was time to change. We were both noticing some strange thinking patterns at least partially due to AoPS's approach. She was resistant to our help and isn't a candidate for the AoPS classes, so we switched programs. I personally liked AoPS Pre-A better than AoPS Algebra.

 

I'm not sure what I would have done differently with Pre-A. I do wish for Algebra we would have gone straight to Foerster's  - it's been a great fit. Pre-A? In a different time of our lives, she probably could have done it in a year. Even with the upheavals, another program probably could have been completed in the usual year time-frame. Was AoPS worth it for her? At this point I'm leaning toward no. We seem to see more leftover issues than earth-shattering amazing thought processes. My dh had qualms about AoPS from the beginning for her. In some ways, I wish I would have listened. He could do AoPS without having done AoPS, if that makes sense, simply because he had a good foundation in math.  He thought the added frustration of discovery was hurting more than helping. Looking back, he was probably right.

 

I think if I were to do it again, I would maybe try the AoPS Pre-A class to know for sure it wouldn't work, rather than just presuming it wouldn't. I would also be much less likely to continue with something that clearly just wasn't a good fit. The Well-Trained Mind Academy is offering classes with the Pre-Algebra and Algebra AoPS books now. Had they been available, those would have been well worth trying.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yeah, I really wanted AoPS to be a good fit for my dd.  It just isn't, and there has been a lot of  peace in accepting that and letting go of the idea that it was the be-all end-all of math instruction.  I'm not sure why it took so long to just let it go, but it was a good choice.  I do love the thrill of victory she feels when she turns Alcumus bars blue, but if it was her only experience with math, I think it would have been counterproductive.

[deerforest]

Ah, well, I feel like you all have passed the baton to the current generation of fence straddlers. We completed the first chapter of AoPS pre-algebra along with Lial's, and it went pretty well. But, then DD had a surge of unrelated anxiety and out of all that, she also admitted that she felt that homeschooling was so much harder than public school (and, well, it is!! It's intentional!). She's frustrated that she's doing pre-algebra already and none of her friends are (especially her best friend who attends public school). 

 

This was a big struggle for me because she really is ready to move ahead skill wise, but it's clear that she isn't emotionally. So, we backed away again (as is our nature with math), and she is almost done with Ko's Journey, she read and worked through more Danica McKellar again, read Al & Gebra, doing some more Hands on Equations. BA 4D is coming out again soon so that will be a nice, relaxing review for her. So, living and random math for fun it is again for us the rest of the year.

 

I admit that I don't think AoPS will be the right choice beyond pre-algebra, but I do still think it's the right choice but perhaps will just wait to pick it up again in the fall (6th grade then at least) when her emotions are a bit more stabilized.

[texasmama]

I liked the AoPS pre-A very well, though we did not use it as a discovery method.  But ds14 fell completely apart in AoPS A.  Ds12 seems to be doing fine, as I "test" him with the end of chapter reviews.  He wants to continue with the Geometry.  He's an odd duck, though, and wants to be completely independent.  I cannot help with Geometry so that suits me.  I am nervous about the lack of video support for Geometry.  We shall see.  Ds14 had lost confidence in Algebra and was fumbling around until we found Jann in Texas's online class.  It really suits him.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Something else I forgot to mention...

 

I wish I would have been more open to math supplements. We had always done at least two math programs up until that point, but somehow I got it into my mind (think Don Quixote here...) that there was something particularly valiant about not only using AoPS, but using it without supplements!

 

(I've decided to make a conscious effort to, in the future, refrain from tilting at windmills...)

[Saddlemomma]

I just want to say, I'm SO FREAKIN' GLAD that I'm not the only one who does this - I've driving my husband NUTS going back and forth and back and forth!! :lol:

 

And just to muddy the waters - am I the only one who looks ahead to the next few years to decide on this stuff? Every time I think about making a change, I start calculating like this -

 

 

To the first bolded statement - THIS!  My dh just throws up his hands and says whatever you think, Honey.  Do you know what the worst part is.....HE TEACHES DD MATH!  I do all the research for curriculum.  I've been throwing Pre-A suggestions at him all year for next year.  We've (I've) finally decided on Tablet Class.  DD will be going from a spiral program (Horizons) to mastery, so I wanted something visual for her that she could keep referring back to.  I was originally thinking about VT's Algebra: A Complete Course, but hearing they have yet to complete the other program in over 5 years has helped to change my mind.  Not only that, but just recently I was able to purchase a full year of one course (Pre-A) from Tablet Class for $50.  That's 1/2 off for TC and a tremendous savings compared to VT.  We'll just have to see how it goes.  I do have Horizons Pre-A on hand should we need it.

 

As far as the second bolded point, I think we all do this.  I'm already trying to figure out how we will approach high school and putting a wishlist together with all the books we'll need.  I'm just one sick puppy.  What in the world am I going to do when DD graduates?  Twiddle my thumbs?

 

[MamaSprout]

Our PreA ended up being an unplanned mash up. I didn't really realize we'd already done most of PreAlgebra and had plans of doing PreA next school year.

 

MM6 + part of MM7

Logic/ set theory parts of Dolciani PreA "New Edition" and MEP secondary

First 6 chapters of CTC Understanding Geometry

Parts of Russian Math 6 as interested

Parts of Alcumus PreA

Most of the the MOEMS book Creative Problem Solving in School Mathematics

A standardized test prep book

We are doing the PreA chapters of Jacobs to finish off the school year.

also

All parts of all three DragonBox apps

Parts of Hands-On Equations

 

... and an enormous amount of ViHart, Larry Gonick and Murderous Maths

[texasmama]

Something else I forgot to mention...

 

I wish I would have been more open to math supplements. We had always done at least two math programs up until that point, but somehow I got it into my mind (think Don Quixote here...) that there was something particularly valiant about not only using AoPS, but using it without supplements!

 

(I've decided to make a conscious effort to, in the future, refrain from tilting at windmills...)

We supplemented AoPS pre-A.  In fact, we spent about two and a half months on other materials.  

 

(Extra points for your colorful descriptions and the mention of classic literature. :D )

[Arcadia]

 But, then DD had a surge of unrelated anxiety and out of all that, she also admitted that she felt that homeschooling was so much harder than public school (and, well, it is!! It's intentional!). She's frustrated that she's doing pre-algebra already and none of her friends are (especially her best friend who attends public school). 

 

 

There are other math you can do in the mean time that don't have the prealgebra label on it. Looking back, I think we over prepared for prealgebra.

e.g.

MEP

MathCounts

MOEMS  (we do the samples and the problem of the month)

Math Kangaroo (Canadian because they are more generous with free past year papers)

 

My 5th grader is still asleep :lol:

 

 

...

 

I wish I would have been more open to math supplements. We had always done at least two math programs up until that point, but somehow I got it into my mind (think Don Quixote here...) that there was something particularly valiant about not only using AoPS, but using it without supplements!

 

I had to still supplement for AoPS. Firstly to fulfill California standards requirements when we were under the public charter and secondly because of my kids science interest.  Middle school level onwards, math and science become co-dependent for us.

 

There are people on this board that use AoPS without supplements but we always have to adapt to the kids in front of us :)

 

ETA:

Math held back Physics so we didn't follow the AoPS suggested sequence but just take chapters from other books as needed.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

  Middle school level onwards, math and science become co-dependent for us.

 

This is another reason we left AoPS. Math was starting to hold back her science, which is a no no here. There was no need to struggle with a math program for the sake of struggling. She just wanted to be able to get through math to get to science. She wants to linger in the science, not the math. Math is a tool for her -- not a passion. Before anyone cries foul, she has a non-STEM science focus. (Although even my STEM dh found it not necessary. Is math necessary? Yes. AoPS? No.)

 

[deerforest]

There are other math you can do in the mean time that don't have the prealgebra label on it. Looking back, I think we over prepared for prealgebra.

e.g.

MEP

MathCounts

MOEMS  (we do the samples and the problem of the month)

Math Kangaroo (Canadian because they are more generous with free past year papers)

 

My 5th grader is still asleep :lol:

 

 

 

I had to still supplement for AoPS. Firstly to fulfill California standards requirements when we were under the public charter and secondly because of my kids science interest.  Middle school level onwards, math and science become co-dependent for us.

 

There are people on this board that use AoPS without supplements but we always have to adapt to the kids in front of us :)

 

Yes, I have a ton of other supplements that we're using, doing more word problems, etc. We tend to do this a lot in our math learning where we step back and do other things. We are not hurting for stuff, and it's not her skills that need practice.. it's her unrelated anxieties and emotions. So, math can just be fun for a while.

[birchbark]

Oh my, this thread seems like just yesterday! We settled on Systematic Mathematics, which is not what I was originally thinking, but we've all been really happy with it. I'm planning on taking this route with the younger set. And thankfully, the curriculum is reusable.  :hurray:

[Beth in SW WA]

What a hoot to find this 'old' thread on top today. 

 

I'm convinced the combo of pre alg methods helped dd adequately prepare for her current algebra 1 class this year at her public school.  She enjoys helping the students at her table and considers it her favorite class.  I wish she had more practice problems to work on at home -- so I recently registered her for Alcumus.  I almost have her talked in to working through some of aops intro to alg. 

 

Her teacher emailed me this week:

"Abi is typically the student who jumps right into the problems and completes them before the rest of the class!"   

 

Thanks for reviving this thread.  I love reading how everyone is doing these days. :)  

[Chrysalis Academy]

Nice to see you, Beth!   :seeya:  It is old home week on the Forum today!

[FairProspects]

Ah, well, I feel like you all have passed the baton to the current generation of fence straddlers. We completed the first chapter of AoPS pre-algebra along with Lial's, and it went pretty well. But, then DD had a surge of unrelated anxiety and out of all that, she also admitted that she felt that homeschooling was so much harder than public school (and, well, it is!! It's intentional!). She's frustrated that she's doing pre-algebra already and none of her friends are (especially her best friend who attends public school). 

 

This was a big struggle for me because she really is ready to move ahead skill wise, but it's clear that she isn't emotionally. So, we backed away again (as is our nature with math), and she is almost done with Ko's Journey, she read and worked through more Danica McKellar again, read Al & Gebra, doing some more Hands on Equations. BA 4D is coming out again soon so that will be a nice, relaxing review for her. So, living and random math for fun it is again for us the rest of the year.

 

I admit that I don't think AoPS will be the right choice beyond pre-algebra, but I do still think it's the right choice but perhaps will just wait to pick it up again in the fall (6th grade then at least) when her emotions are a bit more stabilized.

 

Yes and yes.

 

 

Yeah, I really wanted AoPS to be a good fit for my dd.  It just isn't, and there has been a lot of  peace in accepting that and letting go of the idea that it was the be-all end-all of math instruction.  I'm not sure why it took so long to just let it go, but it was a good choice.  I do love the thrill of victory she feels when she turns Alcumus bars blue, but if it was her only experience with math, I think it would have been counterproductive.

 

I don't know that AoPS will be a good fit for us either. Ds really thrives with solid examples and then increasing difficulty of problems. He likes to see the big picture of where things are headed, connect it to known concepts and then break it into pieces and then fiddle around with problem solving. The discovery method often frustrates him and he felt the wordiness of Pre-A was holding him back on properties he understood when we did the first chapter. I also struggle with accepting that but I'm not yet sure if that is just the Pre-A book or the AoPS method as a whole.

 

 

This is another reason we left AoPS. Math was starting to hold back her science, which is a no no here. There was no need to struggle with a math program for the sake of struggling. She just wanted to be able to get through math to get to science. She wants to linger in the science, not the math. Math is a tool for her -- not a passion. Before anyone cries foul, she has a non-STEM science focus. (Although even my STEM dh found it not necessary. Is math necessary? Yes. AoPS? No.)

 

 

I'm concerned about this too. Ds solves much harder problems more easily in the context of science and he seems to intuit whatever math pieces he needs. I really don't want math to hold him back in science. That is where his passions lie.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

I'm concerned about this too. Ds solves much harder problems more easily in the context of science and he seems to intuit whatever math pieces he needs. I really don't want math to hold him back in science. That is where his passions lie.

 

I would encourage you to consider Foerster for Algebra. It sounds like it might be an option at least worth investigating. From what you've described in the rest of your post - solid examples, increasing difficultly of problems, etc - Foerster might be a good fit. (One never knows, of course, but it would be a good one to at least consider. :) )

[VANURSEPRAC]

Fun to see this again.

 

Both of my boys completed AoPS pre-A last year.  Ds12 went on to AoPS A this year.  Ds14 started in AoPS A, crashed and burned, moved to Foerster's A, needed more help than I could give so saw a tutor for a month, then moved to Jann in Texas's online class in early February, where he is THRIVING for the first time this year.

 

Ds12 will go through Ch 13 of AoPS A, then begin alternating AoPS Geometry chapters with the remainder of AoPS A for however long that takes, probably two years?  Ds14 will take Jann in Texas's online Geometry class next year.

 

It is fun to see how we all wrestled with these decisions, made them, changed them or not and how it all ended up.  Good times.   :)

 

[VANURSEPRAC]

Fun to see this again.

 

Both of my boys completed AoPS pre-A last year.  Ds12 went on to AoPS A this year.  Ds14 started in AoPS A, crashed and burned, moved to Foerster's A, needed more help than I could give so saw a tutor for a month, then moved to Jann in Texas's online class in early February, where he is THRIVING for the first time this year.

 

Ds12 will go through Ch 13 of AoPS A, then begin alternating AoPS Geometry chapters with the remainder of AoPS A for however long that takes, probably two years?  Ds14 will take Jann in Texas's online Geometry class next year.

 

It is fun to see how we all wrestled with these decisions, made them, changed them or not and how it all ended up.  Good times.   :)

 

[dereksurfs]

It really is fun to look back and see how some plans changed over time.  It's also interesting to watch the way different children responded to one approach over another.  AoPS was the real wildcard for ds13.  While the teaching method wasn't a good fit during Pre-A, it was fine for him one year later after TabletClass.

 

Even though this thread's subject is Pre-Algebra, it really is more about the transitional phase from primary to secondary math including all the challenges which ensue.  Children are developing so fast during this phase its actually quite amazing to watch.  We will soon be approaching this stage with two more.  I have a feeling the journey will be different for each one since each is so different.  Our middle dd struggles more with math and it is also her least favorite subject.  So it will be back to the drawing board with her, looking for that just right challenge.  

 

In the few years since this thread was started there have also been some new developments in this area and therefore more options available.  I'll be looking closely at WilsonHillAcademy Pre-A for our middle dd.  I think having something interactive like this would be a good motivator for her.  For the youngest I'm thinking TabletClass will probably be a good choice since she does pretty well when given more challenging material.  But its still too early to tell.  

 

 

[texasmama]

Even though this thread's subject is Pre-Algebra, this really is more about the transition from primary to secondary math and all the challenges which ensue.  We're approaching this stage with two more, soon.  I have a feeling this journey will be different for each of our dds since each is so different..  Our middle dd struggles more with math than the others and it is also her least favorite subject.  So it will be back to the drawing board with her, looking for that just right challenge.  

 

In the few years since this thread was started there have also been some new developments in this area and therefore more options now.  I'll be looking closely at WilsonHillAcademy Pre-A for our middle dd.  I think having something interactive like this would be a good motivator for her to go the extra mile.  For the youngest I'm thinking TabletClass will probably be a good option.  But its still too early to tell with her.  

Such good points you make.

 

I do not see any AoPS in little dd's future.  I could be wrong, but I just don't.  :)

 

I also cannot really predict for my AoPS boy beyond the next logical step.  The other boy will likely stay the course with Jann in Texas because her choice of materials, style, and pace really seem to work for ds, and I do expect it will continue to be the case.  Derek, I believe it was you who pointed me in Jann's direction so thank you for that.  :)  After we reach the end of Jann's classes, he can dual enroll in the CC, and I will breathe a sigh of relief.  (Though I am already breathing a sigh of relief since he is outsourced.)

[crazyforlatin]

Great to see you, Beth!

 

This thread is so old that I don't think I even could participate back then. DD finished AOPS Pre-algebra by taking AOPS online class last spring/summer. And this summer she will take their algebra A class even if we don't end up finishing Chapter 13 by June.

 

In case people need an alternate algebra class, http://www.clrconline.com/algebra-i.htmlwhich uses Dolciani. I may have gone with this last year considering that I really like Dolciani, but we are almost done with the first part of AOPS algebra. It hasn't been as great as Pre-algebra. I'm one of the few odd people here that appreciated the wordiness of it.

[g1234]

I would encourage you to consider Foerster for Algebra. It sounds like it might be an option at least worth investigating. From what you've described in the rest of your post - solid examples, increasing difficultly of problems, etc - Foerster might be a good fit. (One never knows, of course, but it would be a good one to at least consider. :) )

Definitely worth considering. Your description sounds just like my older, and she thrived on Foerster Alg 1. It was NOT a match for younger, who craves those cognitive leaps and crazy creative applications of what is learned, but older....just like you describe. It's a strong, meaty, clear, mastery approach to math.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

 

I agree. On the other hand it is kinda nice that so many problems are there if needed.

 

The presentation is pretty ho hum, but I don't think the presentation in AoPS is super exciting either. Although the problems in AoPS are sort of exciting because of how unique and challenging they are. I like the looks of Dolciani better. There feels to be less on the page. I like that.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

 

I agree. On the other hand it is kinda nice that so many problems are there if needed.

 

The presentation is pretty ho hum, but I don't think the presentation in AoPS is super exciting either. Although the problems in AoPS are sort of exciting because of how unique and challenging they are. I like the looks of Dolciani better. There feels to be less on the page. I like that.

[Mrs Twain]

This is a fun old thread.

 

Just a comment--

We really enjoyed using Dolciani 1988 along with the Teachers Edition. We especially liked the "enriched course" assignments as outlined in the TE.

[MamaSprout]

This is a fun old thread.

 

Just a comment--

We really enjoyed using Dolciani 1988 along with the Teachers Edition. We especially liked the "enriched course" assignments as outlined in the TE.

 

I think the Mathematics: Structure and Method books would be worth a look, too, for a lot of "What to do after Singapore 5" people. The Book 2 is similar to the PreA, but I haven't compared them closely. I think the TE's are easier to find than the ones for the PA.

[...................]

I just received my Mcdougal Littel Pre Alg 2005 by Larson

 

It's great. Great explanation, presentation, mixed reviews as well as chapter reviews, tests, and interesting word problems...its ordered logically and looks friendly. All the student needs to understand is right there and occasionally there are alternate Methods presented.

 

It's slightly busy, but I think not enough to be a real distraction. If I take my dd through all the side bars and she really understands what each one means they will

Not be a distraction.

 

I think it's definitely worth a look especially since it's cheap and even the TM is, at this point, readily available on Amazon.

[...................]

PS ^^ I thoughtDolciani was great- small, friendly, challenging, interesting,

 

BUT my dd needed more basic concepts mixed throughout

 

This is why we had SUCH a challenge finding a pre algebra! My dd is already great at algebraic concepts and has a lot of intuitive problem solving abilties and she loves algebra but she STILL needed review of 6th grade math!

 

We finally found it in the Larson book