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Should I rat out my dd?


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But your point is well taken. I agree with you, mostly. I honestly wish dd would just tell her teacher, "I didn't read the book. I wrote the paper anyway. Here it is." It's not so much that she didn't read the book ... it's that she's trying to make her teacher believe that she did.

 

Tara

 

Oh I absolutely agree with you here. When my children make the decision to not do their homework or to not do it correctly, I tell them to straight up tell the teacher that they didn't do it, why they didn't do it and find out what the consequences may be. It usually requires extra work on their part so they are quickly learning that it is easier to just do it or do it correctly in the first place.

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I definitely wouldn't tell the teacher. Partially because any trust your daughter has in you would be gone, and partially because she'll be labeled as "a bad kid" and that won't be doing her any favors either as the teacher will be double checking everything she does with a fine-toothed comb. (Now if she ends up plagiarizing and getting caught, that is a different story)

 

I wouldn't help her with the assignment, but I also wouldn't hinder her (leave the internet on etc). Learning to (pardon my language) bs something is an important skill. Yes, it would be a lot better for her to actually do the work, but at this point, there doesn't seem to be time. What she is doing isn't cheating, it is an effective use of the resources at hand given the situation. I've done the same thing many times in AP Lit classes and in college courses as well.

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I only skimmed the thread, so I may be repeating what was said before.

 

In my view, 17.5 years old is past-coercion age, and past-involvement age. What you have done by that point, you have done - who she is, how she will behave and where she will head in her life has been a principally her choice and her problem for a while already.

 

If she is going to allow to herself to be a slacker and to hold herself to a low standard, that is a sad thing indeed, but realistically, there is nothing you can truly do for her about that right now. And even if you could, at this age, it would probably not be a good idea to actually do it, because she is a young adult who needs to have control over this aspect of her life, who needs to own it. If she is hitting adulthood with that attitude, as a general attitude towards academics, then this is the point at which you shrug, you know that you did your best NOT to get her there, but she still chose to go there, and that is the point at which you accept that. I think making her read the book or ratting her are both poor choices, exclusively on the grounds that you are getting somewhere where it is not your place - not at this age, not at this stage of education.

 

I understand that it may be very hurtful for you to be going through this and to be ending up with a daughter who does not value education. But at some point, it is her life and her choices.

:grouphug:

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I understand that it may be very hurtful for you to be going through this and to be ending up with a daughter who does not value education. But at some point, it is her life and her choices.

:grouphug:

 

She may just not value literature study/analysis. She could really get into some other academic areas. Or it may be that at this point in her life, reading that book and having to analyze it seemed intolerable. She could end up loving to read literature, but only after she is past all chance of ever having to write a paper about any of it. There are different ways to love learning. All hope is not lost.

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She may just not value literature study/analysis. She could really get into some other academic areas. Or it may be that at this point in her life, reading that book and having to analyze it seemed intolerable. She could end up loving to read literature, but only after she is past all chance of ever having to write a paper about any of it. There are different ways to love learning. All hope is not lost.

 

:iagree:

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She may just not value literature study/analysis. She could really get into some other academic areas. Or it may be that at this point in her life, reading that book and having to analyze it seemed intolerable. She could end up loving to read literature, but only after she is past all chance of ever having to write a paper about any of it. There are different ways to love learning. All hope is not lost.

All hope is never lost in that sense - people do radically change at weirdest ages sometimes, and some just take really long to mature - but the OP's other posts show that this is a general pattern of behavior and slacking with academics, not an isolated incident.

 

An isolated incident, skirting the edges a little, is never an issue. It is long term thought and behavior patterns that are an issue, and that is where the girl seems to be according to OP's descriptions. In that sense, a generalized statement about what is her general approach seems factually correct to me - I mean, the girl is almost an adult, you have to call things their real names sometimes.

 

For the record, I have advanced degrees in letters and I skipped some school readings too :tongue_smilie:, but it is exactly what I am talking about: those were exceptions, not a rule, and I still knew which authors and works are not messed with (not every work is of the same "weight" in the program), and I still had a pattern of academic excellence in formal results (exams, grades), in how it was recognized by professors, etc. I also cut the hell out of school and university, but I never put myself into a situation that my results reflect my "negligence", nor into a situation of borderline intellectual dishonesty (writing a paper on what I did not read, etc.). IOW, I was a rebellious kid, but there were some tacit boundaries. If I read the OP's posts correctly, her child does not have that inner sense of "enough is enough" and her grades do not reflect any academic excellence which might "excuse" her a little, and this is not an isolated incident of less than appropriate effort - thus my reply.

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I think part of her attitude is due to the fact that she's still young. I would guess that a great many high school students (and probably college students, as well,) are "in it for the grade," rather than for the joy of learning. It doesn't mean she will always be that way.

 

As she matures, your dd will probably view things differently, but for now, I don't think she is particularly unusual, and I don't think it's anything to worry about.

 

:iagree: This is true of many, many young people. Just looking at my own 17 yr old and his friends: not many of them think like this 'learning for learning's sake' and the ones who are in school... psh... all of them are chasing the grade.

 

Not unusual at all. :)

Edited by lauranc
can't spell this morning
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Am I the only one who actually read every book I was assigned in school? Am I just a goody-two-shoes? Honestly, it never occurred to me not to.

 

Tara

 

I read all the books, too. At least in high school. But then I had teachers who gave quizzes after each book was to be read and before starting the discussion phase. And they used the Cliff's notes, too (in the dark ages before the internet)--to fashion quizzes that couldn't be passed by just reading the Cliff's notes.

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I read all the books, too. At least in high school. But then I had teachers who gave quizzes after each book was to be read and before starting the discussion phase. And they used the Cliff's notes, too (in the dark ages before the internet)--to fashion quizzes that couldn't be passed by just reading the Cliff's notes.

 

My English teacher used to give quizzes and I would bomb them despite having read the material. "What color dress was X wearing when she arrived at xyz?" I was supposed to memorize that detail? I guess so.

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My English teacher used to give quizzes and I would bomb them despite having read the material. "What color dress was X wearing when she arrived at xyz?" I was supposed to memorize that detail? I guess so.

 

I always thought quiz questions like that were incredibly unfair, and told the teacher nothing about whether the kids understood the material. If a teacher wants to promote a love of reading, making students memorize trivial details is a terrible idea. It's a sure way to suck the joy right out of reading if the students have to take notes on every last little thing, and then study all of the notes before the quiz. :glare:

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