workload of HOD

[bethanyjoy]

I've been reading threads about how much the workload of HOD is for the older guides. I've been wondering...do you all think that the kids who have "grown up" with HOD (meaning they have used it from the beginning or close to the beginning of their school careers) seem to handle the workload much easier than those who jump into the older guides without having built up the skills that the younger guides teach? Reading all of the posts about how the kids are having a hard time getting HOD finished each day and the struggles they are having have gotten me a little nervous. I am thinking about beginning LHFHG with my dd for first grade next year. Do you think that by starting with one of the earliest guides and progressing on that there will be that big of an adjustment to the older guides?

 

Thanks,

Bethany

[AmyinMD]

My 11 yo is doing CTC this year. We have never used HOD before and I do not find the workload too much for her. She is on the older end of the age range. I did not add the extension pack and I think she probably could have handled it. We are doing the History read alouds as opposed to the boy/girl options but I'm having her read the girl option independently. She does much of the work independently including reading the history spines.

 

It seems like I either read about how HOD is way too light or it's so much work. It's hard for me to comment too much because we've only used one of the programs for part of a school year but I have found the work to be about right and possibly slightly on the low end of what I'd like.

 

I have found over the years that I have a hard time using programs on the young end of the age range. When I tried Sonlight many years ago it wound up seeming like a lot but I also tried it with the lowest age recommended. I tend to like my kids to be on the higher end of the recommended age range these days. It seems to work out a lot better. It is so much easier to add for me than to slow things down because it's overly challenging.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I think it all depends on your own child and the placement chart. Yes, I believe that the younger guides build skills and prepare for the independent work. However, I have 2 kids that are doing CTC right now that have never finished any of the earlier guides and they are not overwhelmed. My oldest did do about 11 units of Bigger 2 years ago.

I do keep a pretty good schedule going each day and we don't do all of HOD's recommendations. We don't do their math or their language arts recommendations. This is mainly b/c we didn't start with Singapore math from the beginning for the girls.

We do LLATL instead of R&S English and Write with the Best. I found the jumping back and forth in books in LA to be counterproductive for us. We tried R&S 5 with Write with the Best at the beginning of the year, but I did feel that I was leaving them to their own devices too much that way. Each year there is a different writing program and I felt it would be better to move progressively through one program instead of jumping about with the HOD LA recommendations. I tried DITHOR with the manual and found it overwhelming and stressful. We do DITHOR with just the student books and use the emergency options schedule in the back of the student book instead.

I think the biggest thing with HOD is to make it work for you and your kids not trying to make your kids fit into HOD. It does seem harder to jump in the older you are if you haven't had exposure to narrations or if you haven't worked semi-independent or independently by the 4th grade. I agree that being at the older end of the age range is essential if you haven't used HOD previously.

[jewel7123]

I've been reading threads about how much the workload of HOD is for the older guides. I've been wondering...do you all think that the kids who have "grown up" with HOD (meaning they have used it from the beginning or close to the beginning of their school careers) seem to handle the workload much easier than those who jump into the older guides without having built up the skills that the younger guides teach?

 

I don't think so, at least not using the first few guides. I used LHTH and tried LHFHG for a month or 2 before we ditched it, and I wouldn't say that either of these guides were considered rigorous. In my opinion they were actually too easy, but I know some do not agree. Based on asking around, Beyond really doesn't have much skill integration either, so I think that really starts in Bigger.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I don't think so, at least not using the first few guides. I used LHTH and tried LHFHG for a month or 2 before we ditched it, and I wouldn't say that either of these guides were considered rigorous. In my opinion they were actually too easy, but I know some do not agree. Based on asking around, Beyond really doesn't have much skill integration either, so I think that really starts in Bigger.

 

I agree. Bigger is a big jump from Beyond and IMO it is the most teacher intensive of all the guides. The workload jumps but nothing is independent yet.

The early guides are deceptively easy. They are still building skills for the later guides. They aren't rigorous and you won't see the skill progression as quickly as with a textbook kindergarten or first grade, but they are learning and building typical kindergarten and first grade skills.

[AnointedHsMom]

A lot depends on your child and their skills and personality but honestly I'm going to say yes. Having a 12 year old that wasn't raised on HOD it's very evident to me that the skills weren't learned outside of HOD and it's been hard teaching him those skills this late in the game. We are on the late end of the age range too. Knowing what I know about the skills learned in each guide I personally wouldn't put a child in at the younger age unless they are advanced. Middle or late seems to work for us.

 

I think that if you start HOD later in the guides you just have to be prepared to move into it slow and know that your child might not be quite ready to hit it full load. That's how we did it and we're making HOD work for us. Just this morning I decided to read aloud the Reading About History box. I was missing the discussions that were teaching my son to look at what he read critically. He's been checking off the boxes and not really delving in deep to the topics. Small change to make that I think will reap exactly what I want. I LOVE the books we use in HOD.

 

I plan to put my younger son in HOD from the beginning. He starts LHFHG next year for 1st grade. I've spent years, literally, looking at HOD and owning manual after manual. I wish, wish, wish I could have started the older on it from the beginning. I love HOD that much.

 

That's just my 2 cents worth.

[Dassah]

Sort of...but not really. :D

 

I think all guides starting with Bigger have a thorough and rigorous workload for the younger child (and possibly middle area of the age frame). If you do the guides at the upper end of the age range, I think the workload is rigorous but not anything more than a child can/should be able to handle.

 

If you start a typical 5th grader in Preparing, coming from a different curriculum, they should be able to do the work easily. If you start a 4th grader in Preparing, without Bigger, it will be a big stretch. I say the same goes with each one after.

 

CtC has been a very challenging year for us. We have done HOD since Bigger with this particular child but always at the early age of the range. I am slowing down to be mid to upper age level now even though we've been with HOD for almost 3 years. My child just needs to mature a bit to tackle the comprehension and the fullness of RtR. It's so much more about literary comprehension than writing or anything else. Also, each guide adds "boxes" for more subject matter. We are all ready schooling so long, I can't imagine adding any more content at this age.

 

So, with CtC...I definitely wouldn't jump into it as a first time HOD experience unless your child is at least 6th grade (at least 10-11) and has been doing a lot of independent reading and narrations. I thought because my dd was a strong student (and was placed correctly in the guide), she would be fine at the early range of the guide. But, many days have been a struggle for her to grasp the content and not become fatigued with all the work. I suppose we are training her to have good work-ethic though. :001_smile:

 

 

 

It all depends on what guide you are asking about, really.

[Dassah]

In response to another poster about LHFHG being not very challenging...I've done LHTH, LHFHG, and Beyond with another child and they are beautifully designed and fantastic but LHTH works best as PreK, LHFHG as K, and Beyond as 1st. We have used these guides as spines and added in Science Encyclopedias, Read Alouds, Field Trips, and have thoroughly enjoyed them. Bigger is a very rigorous program for either 2nd or 3rd grade and probably perfect for 4th. So BIG jump from Beyond to Bigger. I'd love for HOD to produce an in-between guide! :) ...but most just go half-pace, I think, with Bigger in order to transition the child from Beyond. I would actually disagree and say that Beyond does have skill integration to begin the preparation for Bigger (but I don't think it's enough to be a must-do guide prior to Bigger). I actually LOVE Beyond. I love the book selections, the poetry, the math activities and so on. So, I'd encourage you to do this guide. :)

Edited January 24, 2012 by Dassah
typo

[kristin0713]

We're doing LHFHG this year for K. I think it would be too light for 1st. I'm planning on Beyond for 1st and not sure when to start Bigger.

[silliness7]

I have complained about the workload in the upper guides particularly Rev 2 Rev which my 8th grader started the school year with. It was his first foray with HOD but there wasn't anything in the work that led me to believe that he didn't have the skills necessary to do it or do it efficiently. Frankly, there is just a TON of work assigned. The things we started dropping before we dropped the whole thing were very busy-ish. The lapbook for the composer study took a lot of time just to assemble. The State Study book was also a lot of busy work. And the Map Trek map was simply printing out both the student map and the teacher map and copying the teacher map. And the amount of material to copy, most days was enormous. And there just didn't seem to be a lot of learning to go along with it. Not that I don't think there is value in copying maps. I don't know. It may have flowed better if I could have walked him through it but that is not how I designed our day.

 

Short answer. I don't think lack of skills had anything to do with the sheer amount of assignments expected in Rev 2 Rev.

[hmschooling]

I've been reading threads about how much the workload of HOD is for the older guides. I've been wondering...do you all think that the kids who have "grown up" with HOD (meaning they have used it from the beginning or close to the beginning of their school careers) seem to handle the workload much easier than those who jump into the older guides without having built up the skills that the younger guides teach? Reading all of the posts about how the kids are having a hard time getting HOD finished each day and the struggles they are having have gotten me a little nervous. I am thinking about beginning LHFHG with my dd for first grade next year. Do you think that by starting with one of the earliest guides and progressing on that there will be that big of an adjustment to the older guides?

 

Thanks,

Bethany

 

I think if properly placed, the workload is always right on target. People complain about Preparing Hearts taking way too long, but we get it done in less time than Carrie says to allot. Being solid in the skills on the placement chart that dictates the level to start with is of utmost importance. I think you'll be just fine if you always take it at her pace, and realize if you don't finish a guide in a year, that's okay! HOD guides are not grade level, just one continuous and streamlined progression of skills. You can pick up a new school year with the guide you ended the previous school year with even if that means starting in unit 5 or unit 25. I think most of the people having trouble finishing either placed too high, have highly unmotivated children that need more hand-holding (that hand holding comes in earlier levels of HOD), have kids that have big issues with time management, or haven't taken the time to be more highly involved in the first few units in order to properly train their children to use the guide and what exactly each box is expecting ...or perhaps just aren't giving enough oversight "from afar" ;) (Not hovering, but near and mindful of helping them get and stay on track until they learn to really do that on their own).

[raceNzanesmom]

My oldest did a schedule very similar to HOD that I pieced together (8th-12th). I don't think it was too much. BUT, he loves to read. I think that's a major factor.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I wonder about this. Is it placement or the kid or the family life or all? We're only doing Bigger which we've found to be quick. All the talk of how long the other guides take worries me.

[Dassah]

JoyofSix,

I see that you have a 10 year old in Bigger w/ Ext. That is definitely at the upper age range of the guide so I see no reason for your concern and I think your child is fortunate to be able to enjoy school at a more relaxed pace than mine is this year!;) My 10 year old is doing CtC...so, understand that my perspective is with a younger child, who does place skill wise btw, doing a very challenging core. It's not that the upper cores are too challenging, they just ARE challenging. I think that's a good thing, but they are absolutely not anything like the younger guides in terms of level of challenge for the prescribed age range.

 

Imagine your LHTH through Beyond child being a pot of water on the stove top. The water is lukewarm and the setting is LOW. When they reach Bigger through Preparing, the stove turns up to Medium and you see those little bubbles at the bottom. By CtC, the water is boiling on High. :lol: That was our experience with having a child on the younger age range. If you are more mid-placed or upper end placed, I think the water doesn't "boil" so suddenly and maybe just stays on Medium. (Maybe that's a terrible analogy but at the beginning of the year, it was a big jump and we were boiling on High ;)).

 

I am so thankful for HOD. I'm not sure that I would have the confidence in moving into middle school and high school levels of homeschooling without them! But, understand, they are rigorous and more time consuming. That said, they are a fantastic education and I feel very confident that my child is getting an amazing academic and Biblical education.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Dassah

[Joyofsixreboot]

JoyofSix,

I see that you have a 10 year old in Bigger w/ Ext. That is definitely at the upper age range of the guide so I see no reason for your concern and I think your child is fortunate to be able to enjoy school at a more relaxed pace than mine is this year!;) .

 

It's my 2nd grader that will hit CTC at 10 that worries me. I'm finding my 10yo is getting sooo much more out of Bigger than my 8yo. She's placed correctly skill wise but finds it boring, tedious, hates copywork, etc, etc. She give lousy narrations because she doesn't care frankly. Why can't they make this easy for us, LOL.

[MrsMe]

I think if properly placed, the workload is always right on target.

 

I think most of the people having trouble finishing either placed too high, have highly unmotivated children that need more hand-holding (that hand holding comes in earlier levels of HOD), have kids that have big issues with time management, or haven't taken the time to be more highly involved in the first few units in order to properly train their children to use the guide and what exactly each box is expecting ...or perhaps just aren't giving enough oversight "from afar" ;) (Not hovering, but near and mindful of helping them get and stay on track until they learn to really do that on their own).

 

Sorry I have to respectfully disagree Tamara (:)). For us, DD I would say isn't unmotivated and she isn't placed too high. The placement is correct, and the skills needed for the placement are right on, but the workload is time consuming. To say that the poetry box is supposed to take 15 minutes and this includes grabbing your paints, reading the directions to watercolor a picture (remember we're learning how to watercolor) and cleaning up is a time-consuming task and more than 15 min from beginning to end, unless you want them to do a crappy job. For some boxes to take 10-15 minutes leads no room for discussion and no time to color or draw things WELL and no room for "thought processes," to sit and ponder a good written narration or to discuss it. There's just not a lot of "breathing" room.

 

If you don't use R&S or Singapore it'll take longer. I could never imagine doing Singapore math for 15 minutes a day in the earlier guides.:001_huh: How can you use Write with the Best in CTC, create a dialogue you've never done, even though it's in steps in mere minutes? It's like, hurry up and think. Or just don't think and write something down.

 

Fantastic program, but still, it's full. Don't confuse it with "hard"...it's full.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Sorry I have to respectfully disagree Tamara (:)). For us, DD I would say isn't unmotivated and she isn't placed too high. The placement is correct, and the skills needed for the placement are right on, but the workload is time consuming.

 

I agree it is time consuming. I sometimes question the suggested times. I think they try to make them Charlotte Mason type time limits for quick, easy lessons. It just doesn't always work for dc to have a quick easy lesson without discussion after or sometimes like you referenced there are setting up time periods.

I have 2 kids in CTC and we schedule 30 min. blocks for everything. If they finish before the 30 min. are up, then they move to the next 30 min. block. This does give us a bit of leeway. Most of the time 30 minutes is enough. I don't consider 15 minutes for the watercolor to be enough time either. We school solid from 9-3:30 with only a 30 min. lunch and 30 min. recess. I am pretty sure that is more than the recommended times, but I do believe it is spot on for middle school age lessons to last this amount of time.

I have a 10 and 11 yr old in CTC and I would not want my child to hit CTC before that age. I think my 11 yr old 6th grader is getting the most out of it.

[hmschooling]

Sorry I have to respectfully disagree Tamara (:)). For us, DD I would say isn't unmotivated and she isn't placed too high. The placement is correct, and the skills needed for the placement are right on, but the workload is time consuming. To say that the poetry box is supposed to take 15 minutes and this includes grabbing your paints, reading the directions to watercolor a picture (remember we're learning how to watercolor) and cleaning up is a time-consuming task and more than 15 min from beginning to end, unless you want them to do a crappy job. For some boxes to take 10-15 minutes leads no room for discussion and no time to color or draw things WELL and no room for "thought processes," to sit and ponder a good written narration or to discuss it. There's just not a lot of "breathing" room.

 

If you don't use R&S or Singapore it'll take longer. I could never imagine doing Singapore math for 15 minutes a day in the earlier guides.:001_huh: How can you use Write with the Best in CTC, create a dialogue you've never done, even though it's in steps in mere minutes? It's like, hurry up and think. Or just don't think and write something down.

 

Fantastic program, but still, it's full. Don't confuse it with "hard"...it's full.

 

I think she says to allow more time for certain boxes on paint/notebooking days. ;) She also stresses in many posts about organization and having things you use regularly (like paints) with easy access and ready to grab and go.

My daughter is not motivated really...she's in PHFHG and really it never takes us as long to do the boxes. CTC and up has more independent work so mom's time goes down while kid's time goes up. I can't imagine taking a full 4.5 hours to do Preparing! We take maybe 3-4...and that only goes up to 4 if we have tons of disruptions from the 2yo or 5yo. Which is actually fairly typical. I don't foresee the time being an issue in CTC either. I do find that one box might need more time alloted but others we have more than enough allotted so we just shift the times. Also the order you do the boxes may increase your time, bc having to go back and forth to put away and gather books is time consuming.

[MrsMe]

I think she says to allow more time for certain boxes on paint/notebooking days. ;) She also stresses in many posts about organization and having things you use regularly (like paints) with easy access and ready to grab and go.

My daughter is not motivated really...she's in PHFHG and really it never takes us as long to do the boxes. CTC and up has more independent work so mom's time goes down while kid's time goes up. I can't imagine taking a full 4.5 hours to do Preparing! We take maybe 3-4...and that only goes up to 4 if we have tons of disruptions from the 2yo or 5yo. Which is actually fairly typical. I don't foresee the time being an issue in CTC either. I do find that one box might need more time alloted but others we have more than enough allotted so we just shift the times. Also the order you do the boxes may increase your time, bc having to go back and forth to put away and gather books is time consuming.

 

I didn't see that part about more time for painting.:001_huh: I did see on independent boxes she's allowing a bit more time for them to do it independently. 10 min or so My thought was, huh? I couldn't imagine removing 10 minutes for any independent box. But our supplies are all in the room. I could just set it all out & clean it up, but I just feel dd should do this as well.

 

LOL....you're in Preparing. I loved Preparing....ahhhhhhhh.

 

(just giving you a hard time Tamara)

[silliness7]

Sorry I have to respectfully disagree Tamara (:)). For us, DD I would say isn't unmotivated and she isn't placed too high. The placement is correct, and the skills needed for the placement are right on, but the workload is time consuming. To say that the poetry box is supposed to take 15 minutes and this includes grabbing your paints, reading the directions to watercolor a picture (remember we're learning how to watercolor) and cleaning up is a time-consuming task and more than 15 min from beginning to end, unless you want them to do a crappy job. For some boxes to take 10-15 minutes leads no room for discussion and no time to color or draw things WELL and no room for "thought processes," to sit and ponder a good written narration or to discuss it. There's just not a lot of "breathing" room.

 

If you don't use R&S or Singapore it'll take longer. I could never imagine doing Singapore math for 15 minutes a day in the earlier guides.:001_huh: How can you use Write with the Best in CTC, create a dialogue you've never done, even though it's in steps in mere minutes? It's like, hurry up and think. Or just don't think and write something down.

 

Fantastic program, but still, it's full. Don't confuse it with "hard"...it's full.[/QUOTE]

 

:iagree: It's not difficult. My 8th grader did Rev 2 Rev, my 4th grader and 6th grader did CTC. It's not hard. It's time-consuming. There are a ton of little pieces to it. We dropped it after about 10 weeks, not because it was hard. It was manic. It may not be that way for others. We were also doing Latin, music, and IEW's poetry memorization. It might work if you add absolutely nothing to it. Maybe. :001_smile:

[MrsMe]

:iagree: It's not difficult. My 8th grader did Rev 2 Rev, my 4th grader and 6th grader did CTC. It's not hard. It's time-consuming. There are a ton of little pieces to it. We dropped it after about 10 weeks, not because it was hard. It was manic. It may not be that way for others. We were also doing Latin, music, and IEW's poetry memorization. It might work if you add absolutely nothing to it. Maybe. :001_smile:

 

LOL...yep...I sort of feel like this. It feels so good to be in like company!:D

[Dassah]

Manic? Lol :lol:

No, I wouldn't call it that but I would say that you never get bored. :001_smile:

 

My dd loves all of the projects, History Listening CD's, Bible verse CD's... but, it took us quite some time to get well enough organized with our day to do it all. Now that we have a rhythm, she enjoys it and has even asked for more historical fiction to read. It really depends on the child I guess.

[MrsMe]

Time wise. Ha! But in all, I have to say we really like it too. DD loves the books and enjoys the watercolor!

[birchbark]

It might work if you add absolutely nothing to it. Maybe. :001_smile:

 

Yep, HoD makes a full day. It is not relaxed Charlotte Mason. It is Charlotte Mason with rigor!