Debating on dropping ds' outside Chem class!

[Kathie in VA]

ug! We warned him not to take another class with this teacher but ds wanted the challenge. well he is not meeting the challenge. The teacher has met with him after a bad test (6?) and he was very happy to see that ds did learn the material... (my reaction was, 'if he can't show it on a transcript, it doesn't matter!'). Now we are having issues over a lab that is the last one for last semester grade (which is currently bad...maybe a C). 1st I heard he didn't provide a bibliography, we did that, then we heard he plagiarized, I emailed the teacher that he didn't and now I hear that 1-using images from the internet without sourcing them is plagiarizm (??just provided sources?) and 2-he needed to draw his own diagram ... ug if he only mentioned that last part first we would have fixed this right away! (Also would have helped if my 15yo ds would READ the DIRECTIONS!)

 

And now there is more... ... since ds missed class last monday (can't go in to this class with any kind of sickness) teacher told ds that he wanted to meet with him and another student to go over the work as it will be needed as they continue in the chapter. BUT we've been busy "dealing" with this last lab and .... just life this weekend....and haven't heard of any plans for a meeting.

Just saw an email from the teach that was sent sat night where he suggested that ds read the chapter well and do the problems for Monday's class. Gee, thanks for the warning!... It's Sunday night and we have a house full of company!

 

Anyway, part of me wants ds to finish the year and learn how to cross his 't's and dot his 'i's. kwim? Part of me wants to save him from a bad grade on his transcript! Is it possible to pull him out half way and just finish the book on our own? It's an Honors Chem class so there have been a lot of labs, perhaps we won't have to do any more... and call it a regular Chem class? I can see ds going for engineering or military but not bio/chem or medicine.

[Michelle in AL]

Hhmm, I'm a grad student now in a science major, and I can't tell you how strict they are on proper citation, references, proper grammar etc. Papers are brutal and you can be failed for one plagiarism. I'm not sure how strict they are in college now a days.

 

That said your son is only 15. Perhaps the teacher assumes the class already knows how to properly cite references etc and grades them accordingly. I was an english teacher in a coop setting and it is around this age that I taught them how to write in MLA format and expected them to be able to produce a properly written and cited paper.

 

If your son truly ISNT understanding the material and is perhaps too lost to catch up, it may be worth taking him out of class. I would recommend putting him in some outsourced classes next yr to be sure he can keep up with deadlines, instructions etc.

[plansrme]

ug! We warned him not to take another class with this teacher but ds wanted the challenge. well he is not meeting the challenge. The teacher has met with him after a bad test (6?) and he was very happy to see that ds did learn the material... (my reaction was, 'if he can't show it on a transcript, it doesn't matter!'). Now we are having issues over a lab that is the last one for last semester grade (which is currently bad...maybe a C). 1st I heard he didn't provide a bibliography, we did that, then we heard he plagiarized, I emailed the teacher that he didn't and now I hear that 1-using images from the internet without sourcing them is plagiarizm (??just provided sources?) and 2-he needed to draw his own diagram ... ug if he only mentioned that last part first we would have fixed this right away! (Also would have helped if my 15yo ds would READ the DIRECTIONS!)

 

And now there is more... ... since ds missed class last monday (can't go in to this class with any kind of sickness) teacher told ds that he wanted to meet with him and another student to go over the work as it will be needed as they continue in the chapter. BUT we've been busy "dealing" with this last lab and .... just life this weekend....and haven't heard of any plans for a meeting.

Just saw an email from the teach that was sent sat night where he suggested that ds read the chapter well and do the problems for Monday's class. Gee, thanks for the warning!... It's Sunday night and we have a house full of company!

 

Anyway, part of me wants ds to finish the year and learn how to cross his 't's and dot his 'i's. kwim? Part of me wants to save him from a bad grade on his transcript! Is it possible to pull him out half way and just finish the book on our own? It's an Honors Chem class so there have been a lot of labs, perhaps we won't have to do any more... and call it a regular Chem class? I can see ds going for engineering or military but not bio/chem or medicine.

 

Perhaps you can see where I am going with this from what I have bolded above, but at 15, I would expect there to be fewer "we's" and "I's" in a narrative about an oursourced class. For perspective, my 14 yo is in an online AP Chemistry class. She keeps me informed about her grade and what they are doing, but after I paid for the class and ordered the materials, I have had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't know how to log onto her course website if my life depended on it. She does her own labs, she does her assignments, and when she needed a teacher recommendation and grade report for an application to a local magnet program, she contacted the teacher and took care of it.

 

I would step back and let your son stay in the class, for better or for worse. I would tell him that it is his responsibility from here on out and let him fail, or not.

 

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

Terri

[Kim in SouthGa]

What type of a class is it? With the local ps? If it is a homeschool co-op type class, it won't really matter about the transcript. You will give him the grade. You could have him rewrite the reports and redo chapters that were especially hard for him over the summer. Don't public schools have summer school and credit recovery programs? Why shouldn't we give our kids the same opportunity?

I agree that they need to learn how to function in a class room before college, but it is a learning process and I don't see the point in damaging their transcript and therefore chances for scholarships/college admissions, especially in 10th grade. By the end of his junior year or his senior year I would expect total independence, but in 10th they are still learning. To me, that is one of the beauties of homeschooling.

Notice I also have a 15ds, so I feel your pain!! :grouphug: Some classes I have totally given over-like Spanish-because he is at a level where I couldn't help him and he is doing very well and it is his third year with the same teacher, so we know what she expects. Others, like Chemistry and online classes that are new, I am very involved with and checking up on him several times a week. I guess to me, that just feels like parenting, regardless of whether you are homeschooling or public/private schooling. I'm sure I would be one of those pushy PTA moms if my kids were in school!:tongue_smilie:

[ThisIsTheDay]

Anyway, part of me wants ds to finish the year and learn how to cross his 't's and dot his 'i's. kwim? Part of me wants to save him from a bad grade on his transcript! Is it possible to pull him out half way and just finish the book on our own? It's an Honors Chem class so there have been a lot of labs, perhaps we won't have to do any more... and call it a regular Chem class? I can see ds going for engineering or military but not bio/chem or medicine.

 

I'm really surprised by the answers. My dd, 17, is taking an outside chem class. IF this were her experience, I would pull her out. I'd finish up the course to the best of our ability, and I'd call it a regular Chem class credit. YOU are his teacher. YOU are outsourcing this class, expecting that teacher to teach your ds. It's not working. My dd's class is using Apologia, and there is no writing of papers as far as I know.

 

Because I was leery of the teacher at the beginning of the year, I saved a couple of links (conveniently titled "If chem class fails):

 

WTM thread

(is it a series?)

an article about hsing chemistry

 

I'd be trying to find the balance between making my child accountable, yet also helping them successfully navigate the course. The outside class does not seem to be achieving either of those goals.

[Kathie in VA]

Update: I decided to have ds update the lab again and we will wait to see what the first semester grade ends up being. This teach is big on saying that the early grades don't matter that much ... most go much higher in the end... However I've seen this before, it sounds like he grades on a curve but I know he doesn't.

I had ds hand draw the required illustration for the lab and he turned that in today with the rest of the updated lab (where he explained his personal background and knowledge on the topic). Teach told ds that he is doing well with the exception of how he answers questions on the labs... they then spoke on how to make that better. He admitted to ds that he didn't use the correct word, it wasn't really plagiarizing but not leaning more on what he got from the web then his own writing/drawing. lesson learned.

 

Perhaps you can see where I am going with this from what I have bolded above, but at 15, I would expect there to be fewer "we's" and "I's" in a narrative about an outsourced class. For perspective, my 14 yo is in an online AP Chemistry class. She keeps me informed about her grade and what they are doing, but after I paid for the class and ordered the materials, I have had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't know how to log onto her course website if my life depended on it. She does her own labs, she does her assignments, and when she needed a teacher recommendation and grade report for an application to a local magnet program, she contacted the teacher and took care of it.

 

I would step back and let your son stay in the class, for better or for worse. I would tell him that it is his responsibility from here on out and let him fail, or not.

 

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

Terri

 

Terri, thank you. Yes I am more involved than I hoped to be, however this boy needs it. It is not his first co-op class, but he is still learning to pay attention to details. I think it's also a boy thing. My girls are better with details like directions. He does need to learn though and he is improving. First quarter many assignments were late, second quarter all were turned in! Teach says he is learning very well he just needs to learn how to answer the questions on the labs better. So that is the next focus.

 

.....

With weekend activities..it's high school.The serious students do study friday night and sunday eve. Friday night's study slot is doing any homework, studying the day's material, and adding to the review sheet the student is making. Sunday eve is studying all the review sheets produced so far and reading the material for the next week. I excuse the child from activities with guests in order to get work done.

http://www.stuypa.org/pubs/PAHandbook.htm#App3 for study skills. Do you want him to learn now or in college?

 

Thanks for the link. I do make then work on weekends. However I'm also working on social connections with my boys so sometimes it is more important for them to connect with guests or go out to their scout meeting. kwim?

 

What type of a class is it? .....

 

I agree that they need to learn how to function in a class room before college, but it is a learning process and I don't see the point in damaging their transcript and therefore chances for scholarships/college admissions, especially in 10th grade. By the end of his junior year or his senior year I would expect total independence, but in 10th they are still learning. To me, that is one of the beauties of homeschooling.

Notice I also have a 15ds, so I feel your pain!! :grouphug: Some classes I have totally given over-like Spanish-because he is at a level where I couldn't help him and he is doing very well and it is his third year with the same teacher, so we know what she expects. Others, like Chemistry and online classes that are new, I am very involved with and checking up on him several times a week. I guess to me, that just feels like parenting, regardless of whether you are homeschooling or public/private schooling. I'm sure I would be one of those pushy PTA moms if my kids were in school!:tongue_smilie:

 

It's a co-op class. Yes, that's what I'm thinking... how to do the assignments is also a learning process, meeting deadlines, etc. There are a lot of details with classes like Chem. I think I'd be doing this even if he were in public or private school.

 

I'm really surprised by the answers. My dd, 17, is taking an outside chem class. IF this were her experience, I would pull her out. I'd finish up the course to the best of our ability, and I'd call it a regular Chem class credit. YOU are his teacher. YOU are outsourcing this class, expecting that teacher to teach your ds. It's not working. My dd's class is using Apologia, and there is no writing of papers as far as I know.

 

Because I was leery of the teacher at the beginning of the year, I saved a couple of links (conveniently titled "If chem class fails):

 

WTM thread

(is it a series?)

an article about hsing chemistry

 

I'd be trying to find the balance between making my child accountable, yet also helping them successfully navigate the course. The outside class does not seem to be achieving either of those goals.

 

Thank you for the support and the links! This is what I still think but I'm going to wait for the fist semester grade and then decide what we want to do. I need to keep in mind that it is very hard for me to keep up with all 5 kids, (grades 11, 10, 6, 1, and a 1 year old) and do all the driving (3 different co-ops!).

 

 

Thank you everyone. It is so great to have a sounding board when such craziness rises!