melmichigan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Remember all the talk about this. It turns out Sasha is a boy. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I feel kinda let down. I wanted him to be an all new gender! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I remember the controversy about Storm, not Sasha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I hate when parents push their own agendas on their kid's lives - be it a Tiger Mom or this (or soccer or piano or whatever). Just makes me sad for the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I had never heard about it til I saw something about it today. I have to admit, I don't get it. Especially the fact that he wasn't allowed to have super-boyish stuff like skulls but he could have a super girly thing like a pink sparkly swimsuit. That doesn't exactly scream 'equality' to me on the gender neutral scale. But whatever. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I had never heard about it til I saw something about it today. I have to admit, I don't get it. Especially the fact that he wasn't allowed to have super-boyish stuff like skulls but he could have a super girly thing like a pink sparkly swimsuit. That doesn't exactly scream 'equality' to me on the gender neutral scale. But whatever. :rolleyes: I'm guessing it was because of the violence implied or something hippie dippy, not because it was boyish. I'll bet he was allowed dinosaur shirts and monster truck shirts, but not camo shirts because it supports the military industrial complex or something. He also wasn't allowed to play with Barbie, after all. The whole thing is just really controlling. Not to say I don't also get a little controlling with parenting my kids, just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I had never heard about it til I saw something about it today. I have to admit, I don't get it. Especially the fact that he wasn't allowed to have super-boyish stuff like skulls but he could have a super girly thing like a pink sparkly swimsuit. That doesn't exactly scream 'equality' to me on the gender neutral scale. But whatever. :rolleyes: :iagree:especially since she "pushed" super girly stuff (i.e. tutus and dolls) at him, but banned boy clothes. Years ago there was a case of an identical twin raised as a girl (he had been physically altered after a BAD circ.) - but it was naive parents with an agendized (and pedophile) dr. when he was 14, he finally put his foot down, and said he was a boy. He'd always been told he was a girl (and was being given female hormones for puberty), but he wanted to do boy things. He was expected to play with girls, but he would longingly watch the boys and want to join them. His life was pretty messed up, he wrote about it and his anger at what had been done to him, and he eventually committed suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm guessing it was because of the violence implied or something hippie dippy, not because it was boyish. I'll bet he was allowed dinosaur shirts and monster truck shirts, but not camo shirts because it supports the military industrial complex or something. He also wasn't allowed to play with Barbie, after all. The whole thing is just really controlling. Not to say I don't also get a little controlling with parenting my kids, just sayin. the reports are he wasn't even allowed to play with toy cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Yeah, "avoiding stereotyping" seems to mean, "give child stuff that's stereotypical for the other gender." At least in my experience. It's giving boys dolls, and girls overalls (what's with those?) rather than wood blocks. Eta: from the linked article in the Cambridge News In fact the secret was kept until the following summer, when Sasha took to running around naked in the garden. But again, this is not Storm. I first typed Strom. Funny comment from the mother: They broke the news to family and close friends by email, simply stating they’d had a baby called Sasha, “and there were a couple of people who assumed it was a boy, because that’s the default: something’s male unless you say it isn’t,” says Beck. Ha. Even Lily or Mary? Edited January 20, 2012 by stripe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I had never heard about it til I saw something about it today. I have to admit, I don't get it. Especially the fact that he wasn't allowed to have super-boyish stuff like skulls but he could have a super girly thing like a pink sparkly swimsuit. That doesn't exactly scream 'equality' to me on the gender neutral scale. But whatever. :rolleyes: I read that as Sasha didn't like those things. It says he wears what he likes, then says no skulls and sometimes pink swimsuits. We did not share our second child's gender until he let it out himself. We had reasons not to. Even though we did not set out to have an experiment in sociology, we ended up with one. And the differences are remarkable. I shared all that I'm going to about him when Storm was a big deal. So curious parties can seek it out. But I'm going to stay out of it this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Of course he is a boy - and I bet Storm is one too. In my experience the only parents I have heard complain the loudest about gender stereotyping is those who had a boy when they really wanted a girl. They get "upset" because "girls can be/do anything but boys can't wear a tutu down the street". ad neauseum. Parents who raise their kids as social experiments are selfish. They have done him no favours.They are letting him wear a girls shirt to school and everyone knows he is a boy -so he will be teased like crazy. I bet you will never see a girl raised as genderless -because what does it matter if a girl does/likes boyish things KWIM. A girl will be called cute if she wears a superman costume in public - a boy wearing a tutu will be called gay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Of course he is a boy - and I bet Storm is one too. In my experience the only parents I have heard complain the loudest about gender stereotyping is those who had a boy when they really wanted a girl. They get "upset" because "girls can be/do anything but boys can't wear a tutu down the street". ad neauseum. Parents who raise their kids as social experiments are selfish. They have done him no favours.They are letting him wear a girls shirt to school and everyone knows he is a boy -so he will be teased like crazy. I bet you will never see a girl raised as genderless -because what does it matter if a girl does/likes boyish things KWIM. A girl will be called cute if she wears a superman costume in public - a boy wearing a tutu will be called gay. Their wording of this (in the article I read) has me a little confused on the wording. It said something along the lines of, 'He wears a girls' blouse with boys pants, and he doesn't mind yet.' ...so does he not mind? Or did he choose the girl shirt over the boy one? If he chose it, that is one thing. If they bought him the girls shirt and he's ok with it but didn't initiate it, it's another thing. Obviously neither is up to me, it's their parenting style (and not mine :tongue_smilie: ) I just think it is interesting. I find that authentic masculinity in boys is very looked down upon and unpopular in our culture. :( Oh, and in the article I read, this is what it said regarding the clothing: Sasha dresses in clothes he likes -- be it a hand-me-downs from his sister or his brother. The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts. In one photo, sent to friends and family, Sasha's dressed in a shiny pink girl's swimsuit. I took the 'big no-no's' to be things that he isn't allowed to wear. It could be that they don't like skulls. It may not be a 'hyper-masculine' thing that they are against - that could just be the wording of the article. :) Edited January 21, 2012 by PeacefulChaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I read that as Sasha didn't like those things. It says he wears what he likes, then says no skulls and sometimes pink swimsuits. We did not share our second child's gender until he let it out himself. We had reasons not to. Even though we did not set out to have an experiment in sociology, we ended up with one. And the differences are remarkable. I shared all that I'm going to about him when Storm was a big deal. So curious parties can seek it out. But I'm going to stay out of it this time. Well. Color me astonished. Of course he is a boy - and I bet Storm is one too. In my experience the only parents I have heard complain the loudest about gender stereotyping is those who had a boy when they really wanted a girl. They get "upset" because "girls can be/do anything but boys can't wear a tutu down the street". ad neauseum. Parents who raise their kids as social experiments are selfish. They have done him no favours.They are letting him wear a girls shirt to school and everyone knows he is a boy -so he will be teased like crazy. I bet you will never see a girl raised as genderless -because what does it matter if a girl does/likes boyish things KWIM. A girl will be called cute if she wears a superman costume in public - a boy wearing a tutu will be called gay. That's exactly what I said before I read the big "reveal." If he's wearing a ballet outfit with Mardi Gras beads and the big reveals is...it's a girl, then - meh. Who cares? Generally, people don't care if girls doing boyish things unless it becomes so overdone that people say she's "butch." What I would like to know is what have they done for pronouns all this time? I just can't imagine how that would go; "Grandma, when Shasha comes over is it okay for IT to bring ITS pink tu-tu and ITS favorite storybook?" I just don't get how you do that in practical terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I hate when parents push their own agendas on their kid's lives - be it a Tiger Mom or this (or soccer or piano or whatever). Just makes me sad for the kids. Don't all parents push their agendas on their kids? Some just have much more radical agendas. Any kind of teaching a parent does is going to be in that parent's own worldview, and most parents will hope their children adopt their worldview, too. Even if a parent claims to want their child to develop their own worldview, that parent is pushing their agenda of open-mindedness on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauranc Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I had never heard about it til I saw something about it today. I have to admit, I don't get it. Especially the fact that he wasn't allowed to have super-boyish stuff like skulls but he could have a super girly thing like a pink sparkly swimsuit. That doesn't exactly scream 'equality' to me on the gender neutral scale. But whatever. :rolleyes: This is my issue with it too. I don't get why the parents of both of these kids seem to feel boys with long hair and braids and/or girly clothes is ok.. but not something more 'masculine'. ('Course I don't like the skulls *or* the sparkly stuff... so...) To me it seems like they are saying there is something inherently 'wrong' with boys. :001_huh: Edited January 21, 2012 by lauranc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohru Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Of course he is a boy - and I bet Storm is one too. In my experience the only parents I have heard complain the loudest about gender stereotyping is those who had a boy when they really wanted a girl. They get "upset" because "girls can be/do anything but boys can't wear a tutu down the street". ad neauseum. Parents who raise their kids as social experiments are selfish. They have done him no favours.They are letting him wear a girls shirt to school and everyone knows he is a boy -so he will be teased like crazy. I bet you will never see a girl raised as genderless -because what does it matter if a girl does/likes boyish things KWIM. A girl will be called cute if she wears a superman costume in public - a boy wearing a tutu will be called gay. :iagree: yep. This is my issue with it too. I don't get why the parents of both of these kids seem to feel boys with long hair and braids and/or girly clothes is ok.. but not something more 'masculine'. ('Course I don't like the skulls or the sparkly stuff... so...) To me it seems like they are saying there is something inherently 'wrong' with boys. :001_huh: :iagree: Although I've met boys with long hair that look like girls. No one cares. Edited January 21, 2012 by jadedone80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Here's what she said in the Cambridge News piece: Sasha’s school uniform is another of Beck’s bugbears. She bemoans the uniform list, where cardigans are officially ‘girls only’, and shows me a white polo shirt Sasha wears for school: with its ruched sleeves and scalloped collar, it’s clearly intended for a girl. Has he ever been teased about it? Have other parents pointed at him? “Nobody’s ever mentioned it,” she shrugs, “and I would hope that if they actually said something to Sasha, he’d be confident enough to make a good response. “I don’t think I’d do it if I thought it was going to make him unhappy, but at the moment he’s not really bothered either way. We haven’t had any difficult scenarios yet.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Here's what she said in the Cambridge News piece: Sasha’s school uniform is another of Beck’s bugbears. She bemoans the uniform list, where cardigans are officially ‘girls only’, and shows me a white polo shirt Sasha wears for school: with its ruched sleeves and scalloped collar, it’s clearly intended for a girl. Has he ever been teased about it? Have other parents pointed at him? “Nobody’s ever mentioned it,†she shrugs, “and I would hope that if they actually said something to Sasha, he’d be confident enough to make a good response. “I don’t think I’d do it if I thought it was going to make him unhappy, but at the moment he’s not really bothered either way. We haven’t had any difficult scenarios yet.†Wait until the poor kid comes home with a black eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohru Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Here's what she said in the Cambridge News piece: Sasha’s school uniform is another of Beck’s bugbears. She bemoans the uniform list, where cardigans are officially ‘girls only’, and shows me a white polo shirt Sasha wears for school: with its ruched sleeves and scalloped collar, it’s clearly intended for a girl. Has he ever been teased about it? Have other parents pointed at him? “Nobody’s ever mentioned it,†she shrugs, “and I would hope that if they actually said something to Sasha, he’d be confident enough to make a good response. “I don’t think I’d do it if I thought it was going to make him unhappy, but at the moment he’s not really bothered either way. We haven’t had any difficult scenarios yet.†Well, she could've homeschooled him if it bothered her that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "I don't think I'd do it if I thought it was going to make him unhappy," mind you. Notice: I's: 3, him: 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskool Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is my issue with it too. I don't get why the parents of both of these kids seem to feel boys with long hair and braids and/or girly clothes is ok.. but not something more 'masculine'. ('Course I don't like the skulls *or* the sparkly stuff... so...) To me it seems like they are saying there is something inherently 'wrong' with boys. :001_huh: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I have witnessed repeatedly a boy I know being mistaken for a girl by his peers. Honestly, it pains me to witness it. The mistake is made based only on the boy's beautiful, all-one-length, long hair; he doesn't wear ambiguous clothing and doesn't act feminine. But I have felt embarrassed for him multiple times when I've witnessed peers realizing he is a boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What I would like to know is what have they done for pronouns all this time? I just can't imagine how that would go; "Grandma, when Shasha comes over is it okay for IT to bring ITS pink tu-tu and ITS favorite storybook?" I just don't get how you do that in practical terms. If you read the blog, it seems the mom skips pronouns and just uses the kid's name constantly. It's very awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I had never heard about it til I saw something about it today. I have to admit, I don't get it. Especially the fact that he wasn't allowed to have super-boyish stuff like skulls but he could have a super girly thing like a pink sparkly swimsuit. That doesn't exactly scream 'equality' to me on the gender neutral scale. But whatever. :rolleyes: :iagree: I'm guessing it was because of the violence implied or something hippie dippy, not because it was boyish. I'll bet he was allowed dinosaur shirts and monster truck shirts, but not camo shirts because it supports the military industrial complex or something. He also wasn't allowed to play with Barbie, after all. The whole thing is just really controlling. Not to say I don't also get a little controlling with parenting my kids, just sayin. The article says: Sasha dresses in clothes he likes -- be it a hand-me-downs from his sister or his brother. The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts and cargo pants. In one photo, sent to friends and family, Sasha's dressed in a shiny pink girl's swimsuit. I just don't get why an ultra feminine swimsuit is ok but hyper masculine - described as skull prints and cargo pants - is not. What if he likes pirates and wants to wear a pirate shirt with cargo pants? What is "hyper masculine" about cargo pants? I wear cargo pants. I agree with everyone who mentioned the mother seems to be pushing the feminine to an extreme degree. Weird. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovin Learnin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I would not have a problem with their parenting style if it were child initiated. In fact, I would applaud it, as I believe gender identity originates with the brain/hormones. I do have a problem with them assigning him a gender other than the one he was born with, which is what this looks like to me. Edited January 21, 2012 by Lovin Learnin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in MI Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Of course he is a boy - and I bet Storm is one too. In my experience the only parents I have heard complain the loudest about gender stereotyping is those who had a boy when they really wanted a girl. They get "upset" because "girls can be/do anything but boys can't wear a tutu down the street". ad neauseum. Parents who raise their kids as social experiments are selfish. They have done him no favours.They are letting him wear a girls shirt to school and everyone knows he is a boy -so he will be teased like crazy. I bet you will never see a girl raised as genderless -because what does it matter if a girl does/likes boyish things KWIM. A girl will be called cute if she wears a superman costume in public - a boy wearing a tutu will be called gay. I just don't get why an ultra feminine swimsuit is ok but hyper masculine - described as skull prints and cargo pants - is not. What if he likes pirates and wants to wear a pirate shirt with cargo pants? What is "hyper masculine" about cargo pants? I wear cargo pants.I agree with everyone who mentioned the mother seems to be pushing the feminine to an extreme degree. Weird. JMO. I would not have a problem with their parenting style it if were child initiated. In fact, I would applaud it, as I believe gender identity originates with the brain/hormones. I do have a problem with them assigning him a gender other than the one he was born with, which is what this looks like to me. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Parents like this make me :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramlingk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I pray that this boy will hear that truth that he is fearfully and wonderfully made with no neutrality involved. His heavenly father made him with a purpose that only HE can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 :rolleyes: What a crazy world. The biological category is that of sex - a concrete, tangible biological fact that the boy or the girl will not escape anyhow in a few years - who cares the psychological reality of gender in a child too young to fully understand it or care about it anyway. By emphasizing these things you are more likely to create a ground for identity "troubles" of some kind than by ignoring them and just raising a boy like a boy or a girl like a girl until, and if (God forbid), they complain about the mismatch between their biology and their psychology / self-image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The thing I had read seemed to just be saying "no skull shirts" - I know a number of families that have these sorts of rules about violence symbols and I admit I don't buy my boys camo stuff because I feel like it turns the military and war into play and a fashion statement, which I don't think is appropriate. No toy cars is nuts. When the story about Storm was posted, I felt like I understood where they were coming from, but that they had taken a pretty bizarre step in trying to get there. I mean, I'm raising two boys - one of them does ballet, loves pink and frilly things, wears his hair long and is always pals with the girls. But those are *his* choices (along with the choice to play in the dirt, play soccer, love robots, etc. etc.) and it didn't take me raising him in some weird bubble where I refused to tell anyone what gender he was in order for him to have a balance set of interests that weren't simply derived from gender pressures. This family does just come off as anti-male. How pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I just don't get why an ultra feminine swimsuit is ok but hyper masculine - described as skull prints and cargo pants - is not. What if he likes pirates and wants to wear a pirate shirt with cargo pants? What is "hyper masculine" about cargo pants? I wear cargo pants. I agree with everyone who mentioned the mother seems to be pushing the feminine to an extreme degree. Weird. JMO. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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