Ack! Neighbor Diva is back in our lives!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Long story short - neighbor girl is 7, dd is 10. Neighbor Diva (ND from now on) is well, a diva. Not evil incarnate but someone who was a bad influence on my dd. Part of it is due to different family values but most of it is due to her having a Queen Bee personality. Anyway - 3 months ago, she got angry at dd for something that her dad had given my daughter and despite dd giving the offending toy back, did not talk to dd for 3 months. When dd initially tried to talk to her the door was slammed in her face. I took the opportunity to console dd but also tell her that this friendship would be over even if ND were to come back when she got bored.

 

There hasn't been a peep from next door for 3 months so I thought we were home free. Today it snowed. All the kids met up at the park to play, including my dd and later on, ND. Now I see ND and dd10 playing together out front.

 

So. . . what do I do?

[swellmomma]

I would do nothing but be ready to catch your daughter if the friendship falls again. The little girl is only 7, she has a lot of growing up to do before she will have all the social graces she should. Maybe your unsocialized dd can show the socialized little diva how to behave ;) Seriously though, I would not do anything other than observe and see how it goes. Make it a rule that they can only play together in the yard where you can supervise and see if the little girl has developed any manners in these last few months at school to make up for the one's her parents failed to teach her (like not to slam a door in someone's face)

[Catwoman]

I would let it go for today, but when your dd is back in the house, maybe you could explain to her why you think it's a bad idea for her to play with the Evil-ish ND on a regular basis.

 

Remind your dd how badly the girl has made her feel in the past, and let her know you don't intend to let it happen again.

 

The kid sounds like more trouble than she's worth, and I'm sure she can be as charming as can be when she doesn't have anyone else to play with -- but you already know it won't last. :glare: I have dealt with a kid like this in our neighborhood, and I tried being extra-nice, modeling polite behavior, and everything else you could think of -- and the kid is now 11 years old -- and he's still a little snot. Ds does not play with him. Ever.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Catwoman

[Myeightkiddies]

The first thing I would do is talk to my daughter when she came in the house. Ask her if they are friends again. DD may be playing with ND to be nice but may not really want to continue with it in the future. Just have to see where she stands for now and the motivation behind playing with her today.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dd10 is a sweet girl who is desperate for friendships even if she knows that she's being used or verbally abused. (I do provide lots of social opportunities for her but a friend next door is more available, you know?) She came in bubbling about getting to play with ND, even though just this morning she was sharing that she thought that ND had not been a good friend. Part of the past bad dynamic was the effect that the verbal abuse was having on my daughter, including her turning around and using it on others even weaker than herself.

[Catwoman]

Dd10 is a sweet girl who is desperate for friendships even if she knows that she's being used or verbally abused. (I do provide lots of social opportunities for her but a friend next door is more available, you know?) She came in bubbling about getting to play with ND, even though just this morning she was sharing that she thought that ND had not been a good friend. Part of the past bad dynamic was the effect that the verbal abuse was having on my daughter, including her turning around and using it on others even weaker than herself.

 

Jean, I remember the past problem with ND, and for both your dd's sake and your own sanity, I'd just put a stop to the friendship. Your dd is going to end up hurt all over again by this kid.

[starwarsmomma]

I am so rude. LOL As soon as ND shows up for anothe rplaydate, say they're not allowed to play unless in a group setting. Sorry, but that's how it is. No explanation, just the answer NO.

[swellmomma]

Dd10 is a sweet girl who is desperate for friendships even if she knows that she's being used or verbally abused. (I do provide lots of social opportunities for her but a friend next door is more available, you know?) She came in bubbling about getting to play with ND, even though just this morning she was sharing that she thought that ND had not been a good friend. Part of the past bad dynamic was the effect that the verbal abuse was having on my daughter, including her turning around and using it on others even weaker than herself.

 

That puts a different dynamic on it. And due to this I would ban teh friendship. I misunderstood and thought this was the first and only time this girl had acted like that (I have forgotten if there were past posts about this girl). Given this info here I would outright ban them playing together.

[BigMamaBird]

I had a friend like that growing up. The relationship was very one sided with me doing all the giving and her all the taking. We were "friends" for about three or four years and I was desperate for that friendship. When I came to the point where I discovered that she wasn't a true friend and took steps to protect myself, that was a wonderful growing experience for me. I think that's something that we all have to grow through at some point in our lives, it makes us mature and become better people.

 

As painful as it may be for your to watch your dd be "used" at this point, I'd say just step back and let the "friendship" continue. Soothe her when hurt, try to guide her to an understanding that this girl is not really a friend. But if she wants someone to play with and that girl is there, and as you said, not really a bad influence, then I'd let them play. As she grows she gain self-confidence and soon the decision to continue the friendship will be hers to make and she'll gain a lot from being the one to discover it.

 

:grouphug: though. It stinks to see our kids get hurt.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dd and I had a talk. Dd wants to jump right back into the friendship because ND said "sorry" while at the park. They've already made plans to make a snowman tomorrow. I told dd "No." and these are the reasons I gave her:

 

1. This relationship was not a healthy one long before their blow up at the end. ND is a Queen Bee and was constantly bad mouthing dd10. Dd10 was telling us in Sunday school just this morning about how badly ND treated her (this was prompted by a lesson on selfishness).

 

2. The relationship led dd10 to behave in non-healthy and non-virtuous ways. Dd10 was starting to be a Queen Bee around younger more vulnerable children than herself. And dd10's natural desire for the more shallow things in life (not bad in themselves but not top priorities for us) were being magnified because they are top priorities for ND and her mom.

 

3. I understand having a tiff and then saying sorry and making up. But I know that ND was home numerous times in the last couple of months. Not once did she say sorry. It wasn't convenient or in her "interest" before because she'd rather stay inside and play video games. It is in her best interest now because snow is exciting and it is more fun to have dd10 to play with in the snow than to play out there by herself. I think she's using dd10.

 

I don't normally like to interfere in kid's friendships but I think that I need to do that this time once and for all. And I think I need to do it before dd10 gets sucked into the unhealthy dynamic that she had before where she was at ND's beck and call.

 

So - I know that ND will be coming over tomorrow since they had made plans to play. I plan to tell ND that "Dd10 is not available anymore to play". Is that ok? If her parents come over to ask why (a definite possibility) then I was thinking of saying that the friendship was not a healthy one for dd and I felt it better if they didn't have one-on-one play times. But I can't see how anyone would like to hear that, even if it is true. Any advice on this part? If I just say that dd isn't available tomorrow I could see having to say this over and over again for days on end (though she could just go back to the status quo of the last couple of months too).

[kalanamak]

 

So. . . what do I do?

 

I'd keep it outside.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'd keep it outside.

 

It's been outside ever since I caught ND cutting dd10's underwear into thong underwear. Outside does not curb the verbal abuse.

[Harriet Vane]

Dd and I had a talk. Dd wants to jump right back into the friendship because ND said "sorry" while at the park. They've already made plans to make a snowman tomorrow. I told dd "No." and these are the reasons I gave her:

 

1. This relationship was not a healthy one long before their blow up at the end. ND is a Queen Bee and was constantly bad mouthing dd10. Dd10 was telling us in Sunday school just this morning about how badly ND treated her (this was prompted by a lesson on selfishness).

 

2. The relationship led dd10 to behave in non-healthy and non-virtuous ways. Dd10 was starting to be a Queen Bee around younger more vulnerable children than herself. And dd10's natural desire for the more shallow things in life (not bad in themselves but not top priorities for us) were being magnified because they are top priorities for ND and her mom.

 

3. I understand having a tiff and then saying sorry and making up. But I know that ND was home numerous times in the last couple of months. Not once did she say sorry. It wasn't convenient or in her "interest" before because she'd rather stay inside and play video games. It is in her best interest now because snow is exciting and it is more fun to have dd10 to play with in the snow than to play out there by herself. I think she's using dd10.

 

I don't normally like to interfere in kid's friendships but I think that I need to do that this time once and for all. And I think I need to do it before dd10 gets sucked into the unhealthy dynamic that she had before where she was at ND's beck and call.

 

So - I know that ND will be coming over tomorrow since they had made plans to play. I plan to tell ND that "Dd10 is not available anymore to play". Is that ok? If her parents come over to ask why (a definite possibility) then I was thinking of saying that the friendship was not a healthy one for dd and I felt it better if they didn't have one-on-one play times. But I can't see how anyone would like to hear that, even if it is true. Any advice on this part? If I just say that dd isn't available tomorrow I could see having to say this over and over again for days on end (though she could just go back to the status quo of the last couple of months too).

 

I would advise against being so very, very open about the unhealthy nature of the friendship with ND or her mother. Cheerful obliviousness is the way to go here. Repeatedly not being available is fine, and more importantly, will keep the drama at bay. Just keep saying, "Sorry, dd isn't available to play." Leave it at that.

[Cindyz]

I would allow them to play if you are available to directly supervise their interactions. During that time, I would freely jump in when teachable moments presented themselves.

[Teachin'Mine]

It's been outside ever since I caught ND cutting dd10's underwear into thong underwear. Outside does not curb the verbal abuse.

 

:svengo: I'd definitely help your daughter to see how this isn't a healthy "friendship" and put an end to it. Then I'd quickly come up with other ways for her to make friendships with others.

[Remudamom]

I remember this too. I'd nip it.

[Catwoman]

So - I know that ND will be coming over tomorrow since they had made plans to play. I plan to tell ND that "Dd10 is not available anymore to play". Is that ok? If her parents come over to ask why (a definite possibility) then I was thinking of saying that the friendship was not a healthy one for dd and I felt it better if they didn't have one-on-one play times. But I can't see how anyone would like to hear that, even if it is true. Any advice on this part? If I just say that dd isn't available tomorrow I could see having to say this over and over again for days on end (though she could just go back to the status quo of the last couple of months too).

 

I think it's fine to tell ND that your dd won't be playing with her any more. If her mom has a problem with it, just be upfront with her about your reasons -- you don't see it as a healthy relationship, and you don't see it being a good friendship for either of them. You also have an advantage in that you can point out the age difference and say you feel your dd is too old to be playing with her little girl.

 

Be polite, but stick to your guns. This can be handled civilly. I have been there and done that with the kid in my neighborhood, and have been very open with the other mom about why my ds and hers will not be friends. She wasn't excited about it, but she dealt with it.

[Kirch]

Dd10 is a sweet girl who is desperate for friendships even if she knows that she's being used or verbally abused. (I do provide lots of social opportunities for her but a friend next door is more available, you know?) She came in bubbling about getting to play with ND, even though just this morning she was sharing that she thought that ND had not been a good friend. Part of the past bad dynamic was the effect that the verbal abuse was having on my daughter, including her turning around and using it on others even weaker than herself.

 

This is why I'd intervene in this case. Your dd needs to be learning to have enough confidence in herself to expect respect, not learning to pay court to someone else in hopes that they'll be nice to her. She already knows ND is bad news, but she is either too nice or not strong enough to do what needs to be done on her own--she needs you to step in. It might be a stretch, but I would worry that letting it continue might make your dd more vulnerable to an abusive relationship on down the line. It's the same pattern--putting up with so much that you can't think straight about what's ok and what's not and then getting back into a relationship that has clearly been unhealthy, clinging to the hope that an apology is sincere.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is why I'd intervene in this case. Your dd needs to be learning to have enough confidence in herself to expect respect, not learning to pay court to someone else in hopes that they'll be nice to her. She already knows ND is bad news, but she is either too nice or not strong enough to do what needs to be done on her own--she needs you to step in. It might be a stretch, but I would worry that letting it continue might make your dd more vulnerable to an abusive relationship on down the line. It's the same pattern--putting up with so much that you can't think straight about what's ok and what's not and then getting back into a relationship that has clearly been unhealthy, clinging to the hope that an apology is sincere.

 

Believe me. I see the pattern. I was in that pattern many many years ago and it kills me to see that same vulnerability in my dd.

[Catwoman]

It might be a stretch, but I would worry that letting it continue might make your dd more vulnerable to an abusive relationship on down the line. It's the same pattern--putting up with so much that you can't think straight about what's ok and what's not and then getting back into a relationship that has clearly been unhealthy, clinging to the hope that an apology is sincere.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't think it's a stretch at all. :001_smile:

[Catwoman]

Believe me. I see the pattern. I was in that pattern many many years ago and it kills me to see that same vulnerability in my dd.

 

But your dd has you to help her recognize and deal with that vulnerability. That is a HUGE factor in her favor.

[Kirch]

Believe me. I see the pattern. I was in that pattern many many years ago and it kills me to see that same vulnerability in my dd.

 

:grouphug: That's got to be tough as a momma. Praying for wisdom for you as you guide her through the years to come.

[Anne in CA]

I am glad you are on top of the situation. My oldest dd had many friends like this and my dh would never let me interfere. She did grow out of all these friendships by the time she was 20 except for one, but a lot of her childhood was wasted with this sort of drama. It would have been much better to work on this when she was younger, but dh felt we had moved a good deal and dd must be able to make friends at any cost.

 

My oldest is 23 and still does not see why we do not allow her friend who stole $50 from her grandmother to come over. She feels her friend has grown and changed. I feel she has not changed enough to apologize and repay the money, so no, she is not ever welcome in our home until she does. I would not hold a baby shower for her at my house this year and dd was very very angry with me.

 

I worked with my 12yo on these issues since she was very young and she has no friends who treat her poorly, or that she dominates. My 12yo is naturally the Queen Bee, but I have repeatedly explained to her about how to treat other girls and she mostly understands. I am glad we dealt with this at 6, 8, 9, and now at 12 we have had no problems this year at all.

[Lisbeth]

.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Lisbeth
double post

[Lisbeth]

I agree that the friendship shouldn't be a go. Good for you! Thong underwear? Yikes!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thanks. Today has been better. I took my kids to a more distant park for sledding and told this girl that we were not available. But now dd10 is going out into the neighborhood to play. There is a chance that they will see each other at the park and I told dd that if they did that she is to be kind to this girl and they can play in a group but that they are not going back to bff status. (Which is kind of hard to enforce but I can't keep my dd from going outside at all and I don't want to encourage shunning or other mean behavior either.)

[QuirkyKapers]

:grouphug: These friend situations can be difficult. I think keeping dd busy elsewhere with activities or other friendships will help limit the opportunities for playing with the neighbor. I ended up telling my son with our neighbor situations the same thing as you did with your dd. If you see him, be friendly and say hi. You can talk for a little bit. However, you are too busy to play.

[AuntieM]

I would definitely help dd find other activities.

 

I would intercept every ring of the doorbell.

 

If mom comes over, I would smile and nod and just tell the neighbor mom how much busier home schooling gets when the kids get to the grades they are in this year. If her daughter is a QB, she's either already noticed it or is one herself (yeah, I personally think it's genetic...:tongue_smilie:!!!). Anyway, you will only be wasting your mental energy if you try to craft a perfect response. Better to just smile and nod and keep Imp's sig line quote in mind.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:grouphug: These friend situations can be difficult. I think keeping dd busy elsewhere with activities or other friendships will help limit the opportunities for playing with the neighbor. I ended up telling my son with our neighbor situations the same thing as you did with your dd. If you see him, be friendly and say hi. You can talk for a little bit. However, you are too busy to play.

 

Dd just called me on the cell phone. As I thought would happen, a group of neighborhood kids are playing in the snow, including ND and my dd. I can, and have, blocked some interaction but I can't or at least don't want to, block all access to the neighborhood. I know that by not encouraging the relationship that I can limit some of the damage but with dd not being fully on board with limiting the relationship on her end, then I'm a bit stumped. Hopefully the snow will melt, school will start up again (of course today wasn't a school day anyway because of the holiday) and we'll pursue other social interactions.

[Abeth78]

It's been outside ever since I caught ND cutting dd10's underwear into thong underwear. Outside does not curb the verbal abuse.

 

Ok and I thought I had heard it all... nope.

 

I would be honest with your DD and the ND. Teaching your daughter how very rare a truly good friend is...and teaching ND that she can't just act like this!

 

Your daughter is learning right now, how worthy she is as a person/woman/friend... someday it will be boys, bosses, and others. She needs you to help her see the proper type of friendship.

[*Lulu*]

If the other mom asks why ND cannot play, I would tell her that you feel there is too large of an age gap. Thier ages are facts and not a judgement so it may go over better then saying, our daughter is too much of a diva for my liking.