cindergretta Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well, I read every post on all 26 pages! No, my dc would NOT be allowed to attend. If dh had returned without our child and informed me that he had no idea where they were going, what they were doing, etc., he would have been promptly sent back out to immediately retrieve our child, at all costs or live with ME for the weekend. (not recommended!!) In the case of the OP, the fact that your dc is in town and has been "spotted" at at a fast food restaurant makes me a) relieved he is Ok, and b) outraged that they felt the need to keep the whole event so secretive when there is clearly no need! (And there is *never* a need to keep it secret from parents!) What a ridiculous situation! :glare: I would definitely been doing some hard core thinking and praying about my next move with this church. (Our church took our youth to a Halloween event that I thought was going to be on the fun/innocent side and was utterly gobsmacked to discover was horrifying, morbid, and totally beyond the pale for a church event. Yeah, I let the powers-that-be know in no uncertain terms how I felt about the lack of complete information!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 No way would I have dropped my child off in that circumstance. But then, I don't allow my kids to do overnights with groups like that anyway. I definitely want to know exactly where my kids are and who they are with. There are only 1 or 2 of their friends who I allow them to do sleepovers with (I can count on 1 hand the number of times they have slept away from home) and then it is only if they are headed somewhere together early the next morning. Usually, I have their friends come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ok, what I don't understand is, when the DH came home and reported that DS was off to parts unknown, why didn't the OP or her husband call the church IMMEDIATELY and demand to know the details of the trip? I can kinda understand DH not realizing until DS was gone that no one knew where he was going, but to worry all weekend about him but not actually call the church and demand the relevant information? I would have called, asked to know where DS was, and, if they didn't want to tell me, informed them that I would be picking DS up immediately and that if the church wouldn't tell me, I'd ask the police to find him. Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ok, what I don't understand is, when the DH came home and reported that DS was off to parts unknown, why didn't the OP or her husband call the church IMMEDIATELY and demand to know the details of the trip? I can kinda understand DH not realizing until DS was gone that no one knew where he was going, but to worry all weekend about him but not actually call the church and demand the relevant information? I would have called, asked to know where DS was, and, if they didn't want to tell me, informed them that I would be picking DS up immediately and that if the church wouldn't tell me, I'd ask the police to find him. Tara :iagree: :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in MI Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Absolutely not, and I tend to be on the more laid back side on this kind of thing. :iagree: Never, that is crazy! I posted here several years back about the slavery simulation my dd's school did with its 6th-8th graders, which included "capturing" them in a dark gym, tying their wrists and ankles, and having them lie on the floor in the dark listening to tapes of people being whipped and screaming. I was appalled, horrified, and disgusted. I thought the exercise was sick, warped, and twisted. I was the only parent who complained. I had an hour-long meeting with the principal who, while he was polite to me, never really got where I was coming from. A lot of people think that emotional manipulation is a good way to handle kids. :ack2: Tara When my dd went to 6th grade camp (she was in ps) they did something similar. I was horrified. I was also they only one who complained about it, and the principal didn't seem to get where I was coming from. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMe Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Not only no, but HECK NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ok, what I don't understand is, when the DH came home and reported that DS was off to parts unknown, why didn't the OP or her husband call the church IMMEDIATELY and demand to know the details of the trip? I can kinda understand DH not realizing until DS was gone that no one knew where he was going, but to worry all weekend about him but not actually call the church and demand the relevant information? I would have called, asked to know where DS was, and, if they didn't want to tell me, informed them that I would be picking DS up immediately and that if the church wouldn't tell me, I'd ask the police to find him. Tara :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Mom Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 What's blowing my mind is how many parents--those who sent their kids and those who are in the dark even though they are part of the activity--are apparently okay with this. They signed consent forms without knowing exactly what they were consenting to. I have only a couple of friends or relatives who I trust enough to give blanket permission for any activity they do with my dc. I'd be the one calling the powers that be of the church until I had answers or the location of my child so I could pick him up. From a church youth group leader's perspective, I can't imagine a circumstance when I would think I was justified in withholding from parents information on a youth group activity. How insanely presumptuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ok, what I don't understand is, when the DH came home and reported that DS was off to parts unknown, why didn't the OP or her husband call the church IMMEDIATELY and demand to know the details of the trip? I can kinda understand DH not realizing until DS was gone that no one knew where he was going, but to worry all weekend about him but not actually call the church and demand the relevant information? I would have called, asked to know where DS was, and, if they didn't want to tell me, informed them that I would be picking DS up immediately and that if the church wouldn't tell me, I'd ask the police to find him. Tara I can understand it. To do this would, in many ways, burn bridges at that church or at least with the youth group. If you've been blindsided by something and haven't had time to think it all through, I can see not wanting to rock the boat to that degree. And if everyone around you with kids in the same situation are of the "no big deal" mindset, then you start to really doubt your own feelings (thus the OP starting this thread). And then if you start to get reports that the kids are fine and are eating at a mundane fast food joint, then your fears start to look ridiculous because "see, it wasn't so bad". I think this happens at schools, gyms and all sorts of venues in these kinds of situations and are part of the reason why only one family will speak up. Now - to me, the issues are still there and still need addressing even if the kids all come home fine and untraumatized. I think that the youth group leaders showed poor judgment in setting up the event without parental notification of important details. I think that the parents showed poor judgment in signing anything without knowing important details way before the drop off night. I think that the youth group leaders showed poor judgment in their choice of event because as discussed earlier, this sort of thing really isn't best studied in this sort of a simulation. Right there, that would make me reevaluate and leave the youth group. I would then want to reevaluate how involved/notified the rest of the church leadership was in all of this and what they thought of it all. Their answers to those questions would go a long way in whether I even stayed at the church. But this is predicated on my desires and expectations for what the function of a youth group would be. I would want such a group to be a place for my teens to be mentored and encouraged in Christian growth. And a place that did not honor and respect my role as a parent would not be a good mentor. And a place that put my child in any risk of emotional trauma would not be a good mentor. And a place that trivialized an important issue like church persecution (and often these scenarios inadvertently do trivialize things unless they were to go so far as to traumatize the teens), then it would not be a good spiritual mentor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Jean :iagree: This would be an issue I would need to deal with quickly. What example are they giving these kids about parental authority??? Edited January 15, 2012 by Lacie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I can understand it. To do this would, in many ways, burn bridges at that church or at least with the youth group. If you've been blindsided by something and haven't had time to think it all through, I can see not wanting to rock the boat to that degree. And if everyone around you with kids in the same situation are of the "no big deal" mindset, then you start to really doubt your own feelings (thus the OP starting this thread). And then if you start to get reports that the kids are fine and are eating at a mundane fast food joint, then your fears start to look ridiculous because "see, it wasn't so bad". I think this happens at schools, gyms and all sorts of venues in these kinds of situations and are part of the reason why only one family will speak up. Now - to me, the issues are still there and still need addressing even if the kids all come home fine and untraumatized. I think that the youth group leaders showed poor judgment in setting up the event without parental notification of important details. I think that the parents showed poor judgment in signing anything without knowing important details way before the drop off night. I think that the youth group leaders showed poor judgment in their choice of event because as discussed earlier, this sort of thing really isn't best studied in this sort of a simulation. Right there, that would make me reevaluate and leave the youth group. I would then want to reevaluate how involved/notified the rest of the church leadership was in all of this and what they thought of it all. Their answers to those questions would go a long way in whether I even stayed at the church. But this is predicated on my desires and expectations for what the function of a youth group would be. I would want such a group to be a place for my teens to be mentored and encouraged in Christian growth. And a place that did not honor and respect my role as a parent would not be a good mentor. And a place that put my child in any risk of emotional trauma would not be a good mentor. And a place that trivialized an important issue like church persecution (and often these scenarios inadvertently do trivialize things unless they were to go so far as to traumatize the teens), then it would not be a good spiritual mentor. All this. :iagree: We had issues with notification in a group The Kid joined last school year. I blogged about it here: Mama Bear - Present! The cavalier attitude drove me nuts and I started making sure I was up their butt on everything until leadership changed. The new leader is young, but seems to be more in step with his committee. Sometimes you have to rock the boat. A lot of times, people think it's just them that have misgivings until someone speaks up. Right now, you need to speak up, OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I can understand it. To do this would, in many ways, burn bridges at that church or at least with the youth group. If you've been blindsided by something and haven't had time to think it all through, I can see not wanting to rock the boat to that degree. And if everyone around you with kids in the same situation are of the "no big deal" mindset, then you start to really doubt your own feelings (thus the OP starting this thread). And then if you start to get reports that the kids are fine and are eating at a mundane fast food joint, then your fears start to look ridiculous because "see, it wasn't so bad". I think this happens at schools, gyms and all sorts of venues in these kinds of situations and are part of the reason why only one family will speak up. Now - to me, the issues are still there and still need addressing even if the kids all come home fine and untraumatized. I think that the youth group leaders showed poor judgment in setting up the event without parental notification of important details. I think that the parents showed poor judgment in signing anything without knowing important details way before the drop off night. I think that the youth group leaders showed poor judgment in their choice of event because as discussed earlier, this sort of thing really isn't best studied in this sort of a simulation. Right there, that would make me reevaluate and leave the youth group. I would then want to reevaluate how involved/notified the rest of the church leadership was in all of this and what they thought of it all. Their answers to those questions would go a long way in whether I even stayed at the church. But this is predicated on my desires and expectations for what the function of a youth group would be. I would want such a group to be a place for my teens to be mentored and encouraged in Christian growth. And a place that did not honor and respect my role as a parent would not be a good mentor. And a place that put my child in any risk of emotional trauma would not be a good mentor. And a place that trivialized an important issue like church persecution (and often these scenarios inadvertently do trivialize things unless they were to go so far as to traumatize the teens), then it would not be a good spiritual mentor. Really well said, Jean. Truly a reasonable perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just wondering how the event went? Was the event as bad as people thought it would be? What did they end up doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 :lurk5: I'm nosy, too! I hope your son had a great time, and that you and your dh had a serious talk with the youth pastor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katiebug_1976 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I find it VERY strange that the parents would not be informed of where there children will be on a youth trip. Ok, so keep it a mystery from the kids, but the parents absolutely must know in my opinion! Hoping your ds made it home safe... Edited January 16, 2012 by Katiebug_1976 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just wondering how the event went? Was the event as bad as people thought it would be? What did they end up doing? Me too. Is he home yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Well, ok. I was going to let this one die, but since it keeps getting bumped ... FINAL UPDATE: Ds got home safe and sound. It was one of the simulation things with people being blindfolded and 'kidnapped' and having to hide in the attic of a 'safe house' when they got raided by cops. (edited) It sounds like everything was well planned and under control; no one went too crazy or too far. Ds does not seem to be any worse for wear and was kind of ho-hum about the whole thing. When dh asked ds if he thought he'd ever want to be a missionary, ds said "No way!" :svengo: Big sigh. If that was the point of the exercise, well ... they blew it. All of my thoughts have been posted already, and Jean summed it up pretty well. This was not about what the church had planned for the weekend, it was about not giving enough information to parents for informed consent. Anyone in authority over under-18's should realize that saying "Just trust me!" isn't enough in this day and age. And the way everyone else involved just went along with it, No Big Deal, making me feel like I was ridiculous for even being upset, still flabbergasts me. :glare: I don't know where we'll go from here. No matter what we decide, it won't be a big dramatic Swan Song; that's just not me or my family. :grouphug: Thank you to everyone for listening to me this weekend. I love the Hive. Edited January 16, 2012 by Shari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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