Trish Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. Uh, no. Unequivocally. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Absolutely not. And I'd seriously reconsider where I worship if leadership is approving this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah C. Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 As a teen, I probably wouldn't have wanted to attend this event - I was one of the kids who didn't appreciate the more rough-and-tumble events (I disliked quite a few things about summer camps, too). No way would I allow a teenager I was in charge of to go to this event. It is common for cell phones to be forbidden at church events and summer camps, but I wouldn't be happy with that in this case, either. If I have the leader's phone number and know where they are going to be, I may be okay with my teen not having their cell phone. If I don't know those things, no way is my kid going anywhere without a cell phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No. My Church is very careful about anything 'youth' and they would never do anything like this. If they are planning on scaring the kids like in that news article, then I would really question the individuals who thought it up. I think adults who plan events to pyschologically torture and scare kids and to use religion as the justification to be creepy and sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 For an overnight? I'm absurdly free range about things like this, but even I wouldn't allow that, not even for a teenager. That's just bizarre. It's pretty crazy that there's now 150+ posts of people just going :blink: Can the OP use this as evidence to her church that they're being nuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't even think so. NO WAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No way, absolutely no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Our lone dissenter:001_smile: Yep. Just in my situation. Don't know the other situation. I would trust our youth minister as much as I would trust my dh. He is one of the most mature, devout Christ followers I know. But he does like silliness. :tongue_smilie: He welcomes volunteers of all ages from college to grandparents. I don't know of a parent in our church who has objected to the Mystery Trip and there are a sizeable number of parents who are very conservative with their kids. But that's because of his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't want to go back through all the posts to find it, but someone earlier asked about why a leader would do this sort of thing. I bet they think that they are making history come alive and are doing a "hands on" sort of activity. But what I think they (and the schools who do the mock shootings and slavery exercises etc.) don't understand is that these things can be terribly traumatic for those kids who truly do get into the spirit of the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No. Absolutely NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemMommy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 NO! And I'd be going up the chain at your church. Sometimes, young leaders do stupid things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Not in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Seems like gilding the lily to add one more Heck No to seventeen pages of it, but thought I'd contribute the suggestion that someone in the church leadership contact the office of the local Catholic diocesan offices and ask for a referral to the diocese's attorneys, and bounce this idea off them. See if they can pick themselves up off the floor long enough to respond. Seriously, if someone in a Catholic parish in this country pulled this kind of stunt, every church employee and volunteer involved would lose their job/position five minutes after the bishop found out, and the pastor would be reassigned to the diocese's most outlying parish with a congregation of three old ladies and a cow. Have other churches learned nothing from the Catholic disaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I don't want to go back through all the posts to find it, but someone earlier asked about why a leader would do this sort of thing. I bet they think that they are making history come alive and are doing a "hands on" sort of activity. But what I think they (and the schools who do the mock shootings and slavery exercises etc.) don't understand is that these things can be terribly traumatic for those kids who truly do get into the spirit of the thing. :iagree: I don't think they would even have to be particularly sensitive to be affected by it.. When I was in high school, SADD and others in our small town staged a mock disaster drill involving student actors. They had set up a car crash scene that had supposedly been caused by drunk driving. We knew what we were going to see. We knew ahead of time it was just an exercise and practice for local emergency responders. It was still very disturbing and upsetting to me, and quite a few people were in tears. It made a big impression, and I don't think it was inappropriate because of how it was handled. I think leading people to believe they are in a real crisis situation is a different matter--misguided and foolish at best and cruel at worst. I strongly object to keeping students in the dark about what is going to happen and intentionally misleading them for the sake of increasing the drama and effect. Edited January 14, 2012 by WordGirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 When pigs and monkeys fly in formation :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 :iagree: I don't think they would even have to be particularly sensitive to be affected by it.. When I was in high school, SADD and others in our small town staged a mock disaster drill involving student actors. They had set up a car crash scene that had supposedly been caused by drunk driving. We knew what we were going to see. We knew ahead of time it was just an exercise and practice for local emergency responders. It was still very disturbing and upsetting to me, and quite a few people were in tears. It made a big impression, and I don't think it was inappropriate because of how it was handled. I think leading people to believe they are in a real crisis situation is a different matter--misguided and foolish at best and cruel at worst. I strongly object to keeping students in the dark about what is going to happen and intentionally misleading them for the sake of increasing the drama and effect. We had those too, before prom, for the seniors. It was affectionately called 'The Senior Car Wreck' I actually didn't make it to mine (was away for something) but everyone always spoke very highly of them, and no one was scarred or anything. I do agree though, I'm baffled at what that article was saying that group did. That was crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ain't no way my children would be going anywhere if I didn't have the details of who they were with and where they would be. If they did share the details and the activity included anything remotely similar to those linked here, they definitely wold not be participating. I would also be loudly voicing my concerns about the judgement of the person in charge of planning such an event and the liability being placed on our church by hosting such an event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlbuchina Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kertie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 OP, you may want to bring this article to the ministry's attention. This is mentally & emotionally abusive/traumatic...it's wrong, imo. :iagree: Although I am curious as to why it's only one family complaining in the article. And another thing...I've been in a situation like this for REAL. As in police bursting through the door, guns drawn, taking my passport, hauling me off. While I will agree that it is an experience that teaches you what mettle you're made of, it is NOT something you force on people, particularly teens who just think they're going on a youth group trip. REAL people living in a REAL persecuted church situation KNOW what is at stake. It's almost a slap in the face to people that live it, you know? I think it would be far more useful to spend time in prayer for the persecuted church and in gratitude that we don't have to deal with that carp here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily of the Valley Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Absolutely not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMOm Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. No way, not in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 REAL people living in a REAL persecuted church situation KNOW what is at stake. It's almost a slap in the face to people that live it, you know? I think it would be far more useful to spend time in prayer for the persecuted church and in gratitude that we don't have to deal with that carp here. I agree. I used to work with the homeless and I remember how incensed they were when college students would come down to "live on the streets" for a college sponsored weekend so that they could "know what it was like to be homeless" and then go back to the dorms for warm food and a hot shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 We've left a church because of what a youth leader felt was appropriate and "cool," and it was much, much less provocative than what is being proposed here. Just because it is a church activity does not mean it is holy, or even good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kertie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I agree. I used to work with the homeless and I remember how incensed they were when college students would come down to "live on the streets" for a college sponsored weekend so that they could "know what it was like to be homeless" and then go back to the dorms for warm food and a hot shower. Yes! I look at it as good intentions gone horribly, awfully awry. The people coming up with ideas like this just are NOT thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Not a chance! Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I bet they think that they are making history come alive and are doing a "hands on" sort of activity. But what I think they (and the schools who do the mock shootings and slavery exercises etc.) don't understand is that these things can be terribly traumatic for those kids who truly do get into the spirit of the thing. I posted here several years back about the slavery simulation my dd's school did with its 6th-8th graders, which included "capturing" them in a dark gym, tying their wrists and ankles, and having them lie on the floor in the dark listening to tapes of people being whipped and screaming. I was appalled, horrified, and disgusted. I thought the exercise was sick, warped, and twisted. I was the only parent who complained. I had an hour-long meeting with the principal who, while he was polite to me, never really got where I was coming from. A lot of people think that emotional manipulation is a good way to handle kids. :ack2: Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. NO. In triplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy in Australia Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You know, as the daughter of a persecuted Christian man, who escaped communist Ukraine in a way that would make John Grisham sit up and take notice, and who was incapable of telling his own wife all the unpleasant details of his early life, I actually find this quite offensive. I get that they are trying to make it "real" for the kids. This is not the way to do it. I'd prefer my own kids had the chance to sit down and talk face to face to one who has actually lived it. I met Georgi Vins when I was 14. It was a pivotal moment in my Christian walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The thread is too big for me to read it right now and see what it evolved into, but based on the OP: ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. HELL NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No way! and they would be getting quite an earful.:glare: Agreed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoKat Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I posted here several years back about the slavery simulation my dd's school did with its 6th-8th graders, which included "capturing" them in a dark gym, tying their wrists and ankles, and having them lie on the floor in the dark listening to tapes of people being whipped and screaming. I was appalled, horrified, and disgusted. I thought the exercise was sick, warped, and twisted. I was the only parent who complained. I had an hour-long meeting with the principal who, while he was polite to me, never really got where I was coming from. A lot of people think that emotional manipulation is a good way to handle kids. :ack2: Tara I remember that. That was appalling also and would have had me calling my attorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 To the original question, Heck No!!! I don't allow my children to go anywhere really and as anyone who has read my posts before on the subject I care less about peer pressure. That being said I have always been confused about these types of exercises. I mean the college kids who where "homeless" for a weekend, they weren't. I just really don't see the point in any of it because unless you are there really there I am sorry you just don't understand. I think those college kids would have gained more by working with the homeless. I think this group of church kids would gain more by working with persecuted Christians and learning about the subject rather than role playing. They know at the end of the night they are going to go home so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This. We left a church for less than this but it was indeed over youth group practices. Dawn Absolutely not. And I'd seriously reconsider where I worship if leadership is approving this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't even buy into the planned 30 hour famine some churches do. The kids drink and sneak snacks, have a lock in slumber party with a big meal at the end. I don't see how that translates to people who really don't have enough to eat and have to try and work all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Sue Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Never. Not a chance. Uh, NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 To the original question, Heck No!!! I don't allow my children to go anywhere really and as anyone who has read my posts before on the subject I care less about peer pressure. That being said I have always been confused about these types of exercises. I mean the college kids who where "homeless" for a weekend, they weren't. I just really don't see the point in any of it because unless you are there really there I am sorry you just don't understand. I think those college kids would have gained more by working with the homeless. I think this group of church kids would gain more by working with persecuted Christians and learning about the subject rather than role playing. They know at the end of the night they are going to go home so to speak. :iagree: Our church does a lot of work with the local homeless population, and have several members of our church that live in the homeless camps. Our teens learn about the situation by developing relationships, by working alongside the adults of the church in bringing food, clothing, and tents to the camps, by seeing how we make extra trips with hot food and blankets during colder weather, and open the doors of our facilities and even homes to shelter during the most severe weather. Now I will say that two or three times the youth have spent the weekend of the 30 hour famine in a cardboard city in the parking lot of our church. My understanding has always been that this was just a tiny piece of what they were working in that weekend. Hum. Now I am going to have to contemplate that one for awhile. Of course we do have another year before we'll have a child in that group. Plenty of tme for me to mull it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No. No way. No how. Nada. Nyet. Non. Nein. Nay. Neyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I keep checking to see if there's been an update. Shari - are you going to allow your ds to attend? Did you express concern to the leadership at your church? How was it taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't even buy into the planned 30 hour famine some churches do. The kids drink and sneak snacks, have a lock in slumber party with a big meal at the end. I don't see how that translates to people who really don't have enough to eat and have to try and work all day. See I know they send our kids out to various church worksites. One year they were working on a house, one year they were helping with construction at the new food pantry, ect. But I completely get what you are saying. I've not ever been in on the planning end of this one, I've only heard about things from the teens. The ones I've talked to have seemed to have gained some perspective from the experience. I'll be interested to see how they present it in the parents' meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. No way!! I expect them to tell me the itenery for the weekend. I would want a schedule of event in my hand before I hand my child over. God gave me these kids to take care of and He trusts me to make sure I know where they are at all times. Call me a mother bear... That is the only reason my son was allowed to go to Teen Pact events the last 4 years including staying at the camp. They gave me and other parents a schedule of events. :) All was well and happy!! No you are not overreacting. It makes sense to make sure parents know these things. Why do they not want to tell you this information?? That is what is disturbing me. Holly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) are you going to allow your ds to attend? Did you express concern to the leadership at your church? How was it taken? This is a big case of closing the barn door after the horses have bolted. The event is already underway. We were given less than 48 hours notice about the content of the weekend (well, the theme at least; still don't know the actual content), and it was not until dh showed up to drop ds off that he realized we were not even going to be given the lodging information, or who was responsible for our kid, or who else would be in the group. Hence my fury and disbelief. If I had been the transport, ds would have come straight back home. These youth weekends are really hyped ("You gotta sign up! It's going to be great! Lives will be changed! Don't miss it!") and there was no indication of the more serious content of this one until two days ago. Thus, our leadership put dh & I into the position of either having to 1) go along with the program despite our reservations, or 2) be the "bad guys" and pull ds from the weekend. Normally I don't have any problem with being Bad Mom, but this one was especially tough and really blindsided me. Edited January 14, 2012 by Shari tmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ... the parents can know without "ruining" the effect they're going for. I'd be okay with the kids not knowing as long as the parents know everything. Then, as a parent, I can reassure my child and even share some information if that's what's best for my child. IMHO, leadership is wrong to not share everything with the parents. Honestly, I'd be afraid of over-the-top theatrics in this scenario (staged arrests or worse). Kind of along the lines of the slavery and shooter things that have happened at schools. :grouphug: to your ds...this really stinks. :iagree: (Disclaimer: I haven't read through the whole thread yet.) Our youth group does mystery nights once or twice a year where the kids don't know where they're going or what they'll be doing. (It hasn't been emotionally charged events, though. More along the lines of going to a new park for devotional time and then go bowling.) But we know the youth pastor would tell us if we asked. Our ds's, though, don't like these kinds of events. They want to know what the event really is; they don't like surprises of this sort. If they don't know what will be happening they don't even want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This is a big case of closing the barn door after the horses have bolted. The event is already underway. We were given less than 48 hours notice about the content of the weekend (well, the theme at least; still don't know the actual content), and it was not until dh showed up to drop ds off that he realized we were not even going to be given the lodging information, or who was responsible for our kid, or who else would be in the group. Hence my fury and disbelief. If I had been the transport, ds would have come straight back home. These youth weekends are really hyped ("You gotta sign up! It's going to be great! Lives will be changed! Don't miss it!") and there was no indication of the more serious content of this one until two days ago. Thus, our leadership put dh & I into the position of either having to 1) go along with the program despite our reservations, or 2) be the "bad guys" and pull ds from the weekend. Normally I don't have any problem with being Bad Mom, but this one was especially tough and really blindsided me. So, your son is there and you don't know where he is or what is going on? Yeah, the church would get an earful from me when this is over AND our membership would be rescinded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) So, your son is there and you don't know where he is or what is going on? Yeah, the church would get an earful from me when this is over AND our membership would be rescinded. :iagree: ((Shari)) Is this supposed to be simulated torture for the parents? :001_huh: If you need help composing a letter to your pastor(s), I know the hive would be glad to help. Edited January 14, 2012 by elegantlion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This is a big case of closing the barn door after the horses have bolted. The event is already underway. We were given less than 48 hours notice about the content of the weekend (well, the theme at least; still don't know the actual content), and it was not until dh showed up to drop ds off that he realized we were not even going to be given the lodging information, or who was responsible for our kid, or who else would be in the group. Hence my fury and disbelief. If I had been the transport, ds would have come straight back home. These youth weekends are really hyped ("You gotta sign up! It's going to be great! Lives will be changed! Don't miss it!") and there was no indication of the more serious content of this one until two days ago. Thus, our leadership put dh & I into the position of either having to 1) go along with the program despite our reservations, or 2) be the "bad guys" and pull ds from the weekend. Normally I don't have any problem with being Bad Mom, but this one was especially tough and really blindsided me. I understand the pressure and also the dynamic of dh dropping him off. :grouphug: That said, the weekend isn't over yet. Do you know where your child is? If not it may be time for a parental sit-in at the church office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_midori Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Um - I'd call the pastor right now and tell him that if I don't find out where my son is and what is going I'll have to call the cops to find him. Ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Um - I'd call the pastor right now and tell him that if I don't find out where my son is and what is going I'll have to call the cops to find him. Ridiculous! :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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