Soror Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 But see, I think that is an abuse of power, even if it was done with the best of intentions. It was just part and parcel of the preaching. Hellfire and brimstone sermons during service, nice videos about Christians getting their heads chopped off for the kids(teenagers). It is just a continuation of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I wonder if this is the same simulation that the OPs church is doing? http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-16-13.0.html I am nearly in a true rage after reading that. What animals. What filthy beasts they were, to do that to minor children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJCMom Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No. There is no reason to NOT tell the adults what will be happening. When I was a teenager I was part of a youth group that would occasionally plan "kidnap" activities -- kidnap breakfasts, kidnap slumber parties, etc. -- where they would show up at your house and "kidnap" you, complete with a blindfold, to the event. The parents were always called a couple of weeks before hand to be given all of the details of the event, to find out if the girl was available and whether or not they thought she would be interested in attending. It was fun. But, again, the parents knew everything ahead of time and knew exactly where we would be and how to get in contact with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I wonder if this is the same simulation that the OPs church is doing? http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-16-13.0.html :blink: Are these mainstream churches that do this kind of thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It was just part and parcel of the preaching. Hellfire and brimstone sermons during service, nice videos about Christians getting their heads chopped off for the kids(teenagers). It is just a continuation of that. I was forced to watch a horror level movie at a tent meeting when I was four or five years old...all about the anti-Christ, zombie like people with the mark of the beast on their foreheads, and people, including children, getting their heads chopped off. Yeah, that stuck with me for years. People relied on scare tactics to get you to buy spiritual life insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I just read that article, Wow. Coincidentally or not my church growing up was Baptist as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I was forced to watch a horror level movie at a tent meeting when I was four or five years old...all about the anti-Christ, zombie like people with the mark of the beast on their foreheads, and people, including children, getting their heads chopped off. Yeah, that stuck with me for years. People relied on scare tactics to get you to buy spiritual life insurance. Yes, I remember the children the most. Maybe we seen the same one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJCMom Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I wonder if this is the same simulation that the OPs church is doing? http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-16-13.0.html This is psychological torture, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 :blink:Are these mainstream churches that do this kind of thing? I don't think so...right? :001_huh: I was forced to watch a horror level movie at a tent meeting when I was four or five years old...all about the anti-Christ, zombie like people with the mark of the beast on their foreheads, and people, including children, getting their heads chopped off. Yeah, that stuck with me for years. People relied on scare tactics to get you to buy spiritual life insurance. I'm just amazed at this. I can't even imagine it. :001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I wonder if this is the same simulation that the OPs church is doing? http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-16-13.0.html My kids would have freaked. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmommy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. Absolutely not! As a parent it is my job to know where my minor children are and who is responsible for them when they are not in mine or DHs care. Edited January 14, 2012 by akmommy Auto correct strikes again. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No Shari, you.are.not.over-reacting. I would not allow my dd to partake of such an event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I was forced to watch a horror level movie at a tent meeting when I was four or five years old...all about the anti-Christ, zombie like people with the mark of the beast on their foreheads, and people, including children, getting their heads chopped off. Yeah, that stuck with me for years. People relied on scare tactics to get you to buy spiritual life insurance. A thief in the night? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdDJLvmaIeI Ooops! Edited January 14, 2012 by simka2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 A thief in the night? :D Wrong link (that's the one with the tearing down and rebuilding of the Russian church ;) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ... the leadership (pastors & adult helpers) would not tell you: 1) where your child will be, 2) who they will be with (other students or parent/leader), or 3) where they will be staying. I am very, very frustrated and angry. Someone please tell me I am not overreacting. I have never had issue with our youth leadership before, but I'm spitting nails. In a word, NO. The expectation that I acquiesce to that would also seriously cause me to consider leaving the church. That is waaaaaaaaaaay inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You know, I'm usually out on the liberal fringes with these kinds of things. But this would be a no even for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Wrong link (that's the one with the tearing down and rebuilding of the Russian church ;) ). Fixed it! I have obviously spent to much time on youtube tonight!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 A thief in the night? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdDJLvmaIeI Ooops! No, it was Image of the Beast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9DIW0r8gqA&feature=related Let's just say that when you see that at a young age, you NEVER forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I still do not understand them not informing parents. If they want to keep it a surprise for the youth, that's fine. Give the details to the parents and allow the parents to determine whether or not the activity is suitable for their child. Someone is not thinking this through. Telling the parents more information isn't going to ruin the experience. Hopefully, someone in leadership will be the voice of reason. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No, it was Image of the Beast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9DIW0r8gqA&feature=related Let's just say that when you see that at a young age, you NEVER forget it. I am scared to click it!!!! :D .....but so tempted! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I am scared to click it!!!! :D .....but so tempted! :lol: I linked it to the part where Patty loses her head on a stormy night...guillotine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmgirl70 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Wow! I just checked out that link on the Underground Church and all I can say is....Wow. Unbelievable. When I was a teen at camp, we did a persecuted church simulation that I really enjoyed. However, it was different in a couple of key ways: 1. We were at camp, and our parents knew we were there. 2. When the "KGB" broke into our chapel service, they were easily recognized as camp staff in costume, not to mention the fact that the Russian KGB would not show up in rural Minnesota! 3. So, we all chose to play along at the game, but everyone knew it was a game. 4. There was no physical contact as part of the game! Yep, I'd want to know where mine were and who they were with and what was going to be happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhschool Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I would NOT send them. It's my child, not theirs! It is not unreasonable to want to know where your child will be. I'm with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I wonder if this is the same simulation that the OPs church is doing? http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-16-13.0.html I cannot say thoroughly enough how truly offensive this simulation is. I have worked for too many years with traumatized children to ever find this kind of simulation acceptable. Idiots playing with fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No. And I would hope that other parents would not allow their children to attend either, no drama. I would also question whether this is a person who should be presented to my children as an authority/leader figure. It shows very poor judgment and an usurping of parental authority on the pastor's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkett Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I wonder if this is the same simulation that the OPs church is doing? http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-16-13.0.html This is absolutely awful! I would want criminal charges (if possible) brought against these people. Definitely psychological torture. I can't see any positive outcome of a simulation like this. The denying Christ or you'll be shot thing reminds me of the Columbine shootings. Didn't one girl get shot because she wouldn't deny Christ? Ugh! Gives me cold chills those kids had to go through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No. I wouldn't. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Whether the activities planned are as extreme as in that article (and you have no way of knowing at this point), my child would definitely not be attending. At best, this sort of thing sounds an awful lot like the hazing that is currently causing such a problem on university campuses (and those students are legally adults). The schools face losing funding over these sorts of activities. Doing it for "religious reasons" doesn't make it okay in my book. Any of these churches the same ones that do "Hell Houses" at Halloween, by chance? While also likely roundly condemning violent video games and violence in TV and movies (that aren't religiously related a la Mel Gibson's recent works)? Having had an actual gunman walk into a children's play at a church in our denomination in 2008 and start shooting for real, killing and wounding several people, I cannot fathom that *anyone* still thinks this kind of thing is worthwhile. Many of the people attending the play thought the initial gunshots were part of the play as well. http://www.knoxnews.com/news/news/local/knoxville-unitarian-church-shooting/ Let's also hope that no one in attendance at any of these "simulations" who isn't "in on the plan" has a concealed weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Holy geez and wow that article is scary :crying: I finally got hold of a friend who is working the sign-in for the event and she was able to track down a rooming list for me. Another friend is one of the host homes and will be actually involved in the action (she doesn't know what is happening either). So they are not even telling parent volunteers what this 'game' is! To answer one of the questions that have come up: the deadline for sign up for the event (including liability waivers) was due weeks and weeks ago. No information was shared about the content or that it might be anything other than a fun weekend of service projects, worship, and hanging out with friends. This has come out of the blue and is like what others have said, a violation of trust and abuse of power on the part of the leadership I never would have expected. I am still kind of in disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Holy geez and wow that article is scary :crying: I finally got hold of a friend who is working the sign-in for the event and she was able to track down a rooming list for me. Another friend is one of the host homes and will be actually involved in the action (she doesn't know what is happening either). So they are not even telling parent volunteers what this 'game' is! To answer one of the questions that have come up: the deadline for sign up for the event (including liability waivers) was due weeks and weeks ago. No information was shared about the content or that it might be anything other than a fun weekend of service projects, worship, and hanging out with friends. This has come out of the blue and is like what others have said, a violation of trust and abuse of power on the part of the leadership I never would have expected. I am still kind of in disbelief. They want people to sign liability waivers without having a clue what is happening? I do not think so! If from no other standpoint than this is a bad thing legally. Red flags that they know there could be negative reactions and accidents can happen, but they want to cover their rear ends and it's on the parents. Run! Far and Fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well I certainly would be retracting my liability waver!!!! I'm getting anxious just reading all of this. That article was nuts, they said no one else complained? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajudy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I would NOT send them. It's my child, not theirs! It is not unreasonable to want to know where your child will be. I'm with you... :iagree: I am sick and tired of these church youth groups doing so many activities of questionable spiritual value just to have fun or to attract unchurched teens in order to "evangelize them". What usually happens is our own kids are exposed to things we may not want them exposed to. And when we make our objections known to the leadership, we are accused of not trusting God for the safety of our kids or some such nonsense. WE are the ones who are responsible for our children! Not some 20 or 30 something youth leader! There is NO WAY my kid would attend such an event! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 That is about the wackiest thing I have ever heard of. My kids would not be participating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myeightkiddies Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I finally got hold of a friend who is working the sign-in for the event and she was able to track down a rooming list for me. Another friend is one of the host homes and will be actually involved in the action (she doesn't know what is happening either). So they are not even telling parent volunteers what this 'game' is! Wow. Seriously, this is unbelievable. Someone is thinking all this secrecy is cute, but they have no idea what the legal ramifications could be. To answer one of the questions that have come up: the deadline for sign up for the event (including liability waivers) was due weeks and weeks ago. No information was shared about the content or that it might be anything other than a fun weekend of service projects, worship, and hanging out with friends. No one should sign a liability waiver without knowing what is going to happen or what the possible issues could arise. This has come out of the blue and is like what others have said, a violation of trust and abuse of power on the part of the leadership I never would have expected. I am still kind of in disbelief. Even if one trusts their leadership, this is beyond the normal scope of trust. This is abuse of trust on their part. Have fun, but tell the parents. It can still be fun, just smart, sensible fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I wouldn't even consider it. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotAVampireLvr Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I can't believe you are the only one complaining... I bet many have similar reservations but are too nervous to speak up. I'm all about doing the persecuted church, but in an appropriate setting and I think its too risky to bring a group of kids ANYWHERE without having parental knowledge/consent first. I can't believe your church would even put themselves in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oh, yeah, right. Listen, if adults want to do some kind of retreat that way, go for it. Minor children, without parents present...not happening in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Absolutely not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I just read the article. Wow! I've never heard of such a thing and can't imagine why adults would find that acceptable. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 They want people to sign liability waivers without having a clue what is happening? I do not think so! If from no other standpoint than this is a bad thing legally. Red flags that they know there could be negative reactions and accidents can happen, but they want to cover their rear ends and it's on the parents. Run! Far and Fast! I can't imagine those waivers holding up in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Let me just scream NO,NO and NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I just read the article. Wow! I've never heard of such a thing and can't imagine why adults would find that acceptable. :glare: I could not believe that only one family had a problem with that *ahem* spiritual exercise. :glare: First of all, neither DH or I would ever in a million years give permission for our kids to be involved in an activity like the one in the article. And if that was done with/to our children without consent........They had better hope the police arrive before I do, because I would put the momma bear hurt on them so bad they'd be examining themselves for unrighteousness from the backside looking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everHis Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Not now, not ever. Not if my child were the only one with a mother mean enough to keep them from the cool, *mysterious* destination of spiritual enlightenment. Not if every other idiot adult in the church told me I was overreacting. To quote my 4 year old, "Heck to the no!" TOTALLY quoting a 4 year old. "HECK TO THE NO!" When pigs fly with monkeys!:001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 :iagree: I am sick and tired of these church youth groups doing so many activities of questionable spiritual value just to have fun or to attract unchurched teens in order to "evangelize them". What usually happens is our own kids are exposed to things we may not want them exposed to. And when we make our objections known to the leadership, we are accused of not trusting God for the safety of our kids or some such nonsense. WE are the ones who are responsible for our children! Not some 20 or 30 something youth leader! There is NO WAY my kid would attend such an event! Though there are plenty of responsible 20 or 30 something youth leaders. :) (totally lighthearted, here. :D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 One more vote for NO! There is no spiritual lesson to be achieved through deceit and secretiveness. Assuming the lesson is in fact this persecuted church thing, there is no spiritual lesson to be achieved through terror. This is abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ludicrous! Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose in BC Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Uh, absolutely NEVER!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Though there are plenty of responsible 20 or 30 something youth leaders. :) (totally lighthearted, here. :D ) I am a preacher's wife. Dh and I take kids places all the time. Something like this is wrong on so many levels. We would not be attending the congregation any more and would probably be documenting everything to show to the cops. These people have no right to be in charge of anything. - and this comes from a 20 something... some of us do have brains:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No. In situations such as this, I always ask myself how I would feel sitting across from Larry King or Oprah and having them ask me: 'Did you think thus and such was okay and reasonable?' Usually my answer to them tells me what to do in case I don't know already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltop Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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