Haiku Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (I posted this at the end of a thread I started a while ago, but I was afraid people wouldn't see it so I started a new thread.) I'm so frustrated with my son. I feel like I can't teach him anything. He can't/won't/doesn't follow the simplest written instructions. He wants me right at his elbow to interpret everything he encounters. If the answer is not immediately obvious to him, he gives up and won't put any thought into it. He wants me to do all the thinking for him. When I try to explain things to him, he talks right over me. If I ask him a question, he won't just give me an answer. He wants to give me some big long explanation. I am constantly telling him, "Just answer the question I asked you." If I tell him I'm not going to give him the answer, that he is has to think about it and work it out for himself, he cries. It took him 20 minutes today to add 7 2-digit numbers in a column because he looked at it, decided it looked "too hard," and wouldn't put ANY thought into how to do it. After multiple attempts on his part to get me to tell him how to do it, he said, "Fine, I give up on it!" and slammed his book shut. I heartlessly replied, "Well, you're going to sit there until you do it." After he cried and fussed and fumed, he did it, and he got the right answer. I'm tired of the daily battle. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 :grouphug: Sorry it's so hard for both of you! It sounds like you did the right thing--tell him what to do, make sure he understands, then refuse to engage until he does it. But IDK. I'm not the greatest parent around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Have you thought about setting a timer? He works for say 30 minutes, and anything he doesnt finish from what you assign, he completes after school, or after dinner while the rest of the family watches a movie or makes ice cream sundaes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Have you thought about setting a timer? He works for say 30 minutes, and anything he doesnt finish from what you assign, he completes after school, or after dinner while the rest of the family watches a movie or makes ice cream sundaes? I do set a timer. Currently, the kids do 39 minutes of math. Trying to predetermine how much the kids "should" accomplish has been an exercise in frustration for me. I assign what I think is a reasonable amount, and they rarely complete it. I suppose I could try giving him homework, but my guess would be that there would be numbers filled in (in math) but they wouldn't be right. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Have you thought about setting a timer? He works for say 30 minutes, and anything he doesnt finish from what you assign, he completes after school, or after dinner while the rest of the family watches a movie or makes ice cream sundaes? This! I have introduced the concept of "homework". Anything that we don't finish during lesson time because of noncooperation or a lack of trying will be completed during the usual evening free time and it's called "homework". If he's trying and it's difficult and we need extra time or just a wiggle break, that's OK. However, refusing to listen, giving up, or losing time due to having to practice following instructions by pulling weeds outside or scrubbing the bathroom, is a sure path to "homework" during the usual free/fun time. Of course that could mean a loss of free time for you as well, but I figure if he were in school, we'd have homework most nights during that time anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Another thing that REALLY works with him every single time without fail is positive rewards such as money or candy. I don't use this often for obvious reasons, but if I said he would get 25c for doing a sheet of math, he'd have it done in a flash, no doubt! I don't do that because I know that it can't be sustained, but even small things like stickers still work for my guy (not sure how long that will last). But I've also thought of something like a marble jar where for each lesson that he cooperates and does his best, he puts a marble in the jar and once the jar is full, he gets X (whatever best motivates your child, going to a movie?, a pack of pokemon cards? his favorite meal for dinner?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This! I have introduced the concept of "homework". Anything that we don't finish during lesson time because of noncooperation or a lack of trying will be completed during the usual evening free time and it's called "homework". If he's trying and it's difficult and we need extra time or just a wiggle break, that's OK. However, refusing to listen, giving up, or losing time due to having to practice following instructions by pulling weeds outside or scrubbing the bathroom, is a sure path to "homework" during the usual free/fun time. Of course that could mean a loss of free time for you as well, but I figure if he were in school, we'd have homework most nights during that time anyway. We do this. Same reasoning -- if they were in school (and they have been) there would be homework. If they didn't have homework, we would be after-schooling, so either way, there would be stuff to do. I agree with whomever said, don't engage. Be as emotion-less as you can. I know it is difficult. I am the boardie who when my twins were doing first grade at home, right at this time of year, I became so frustrated and angry with them, that on a thursday morning I brought DS into the office at the public school and registered him. I registered his twin sister the next day. I MADE them stick it out till June and finish first grade there -- ds hated it. You might parse his work into smaller amounts -- when I taught 2nd grade in the classroom I did that with my class. We did new material in the morning and reinforcement and 'homework' in the afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 well my 4th grader just took 2 days to do his 'test' every 10 lessons in math. He chose to make this hard. He did fine but purposely took days to drag it out. He did 2 hours on Wed and only got 6 problems done. I too am so frustrated with the lack of trying. No answers for you but it's normal for my kid to do this delayed thing in math. He cries and pouts and pushes the time limits. This week I just let him work however long it took. It's almost 4pm and he still has hours left b/c math took forever yet again. I am at the point we will start missing things if he can't make the effort to at least do some work....instead of just sitting there whining about it :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I do set a timer. Currently, the kids do 39 minutes of math. Trying to predetermine how much the kids "should" accomplish has been an exercise in frustration for me. I assign what I think is a reasonable amount, and they rarely complete it. I suppose I could try giving him homework, but my guess would be that there would be numbers filled in (in math) but they wouldn't be right. Tara Well, you could ask here what people consider to be on the low end of reasonable. Then assign whatever he doesn't finish as homework. Then, anything he gets wrong needs to be completed the next night (make sure you plan something REALLY fun with the rest of the family, which he will not get to participate in). To me, if it's true that he would fill in wrong answers purposefully, it sounds like he's being really disrespectful of you, your time and your effort. If he didn't understand the math, or if he didn't understand the instructions, that's different. But if he's purposefully not getting the right answer to sort of "get back at you" for making him do them at night, I would address it quickly. It won't get better as he gets older. And I really hope this doesn't come across as too harsh--I absolutely don't intend to sound that way. I just think at a certain point (and only you know if you've reached that point yet) your child needs to listen to you and get his work done. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Another thing that REALLY works with him every single time without fail is positive rewards such as money or candy. I don't use this often for obvious reasons, but if I said he would get 25c for doing a sheet of math, he'd have it done in a flash, no doubt! I don't do that because I know that it can't be sustained, but even small things like stickers still work for my guy (not sure how long that will last). But I've also thought of something like a marble jar where for each lesson that he cooperates and does his best, he puts a marble in the jar and once the jar is full, he gets X (whatever best motivates your child, going to a movie?, a pack of pokemon cards? his favorite meal for dinner?). I like this but would recommend, instead, using "time with mom alone" as the reward. You do whatever he wants for a given amt of time (lego, rent a movie ,go for a walk) and it's just the two of you. You could make coupons that he would help you on, and put them in a jar, and he'd get to pick one out at the end of the week if he did his work to your satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athena1277 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I also have a 3rd grader. I think it's a 3rd grade thing. At least that's what I'm telling myself. Surely 4th grade is better!:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I like this but would recommend, instead, using "time with mom alone" as the reward. You do whatever he wants for a given amt of time (lego, rent a movie ,go for a walk) and it's just the two of you. You could make coupons that he would help you on, and put them in a jar, and he'd get to pick one out at the end of the week if he did his work to your satisfaction. Well my guy gets this every day so it wouldn't be enough to motivate him. lol! Believe me I've played my fair share of pokemon games in the past two or three days. We watch movies together as a family several times per week, we walk through our 2 acres of woods each day with the dogs, we read together for extended periods almost every day, we play board games and ipad games, and legos are daddy's domain. I guess that's one of the perks of being an only child of self employed parents. :) In fact, I sometimes feel that because we spend so much time with him doing all of these things that he begins to feel like an equal, like playmates and it's hard to transition back to mom/parent role sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think there is some great advice on this thread. What works for me is to also not engage, keep emotions out of it, and scheme like crazy. I'm mean, because if I catch a kid procrastinating (a lot, not an ordinary amount) I do give a yucky chore and ride the kid until it is done, and if any schoolwork is not done at the end of the day then that person has no electronics or screen time or fun time in the evening plus they get to sit at the table with their 'homework'. I'm also not above baking cookies and NOT giving them to the procrastinator. If you stick with the timer and the rules and the consequences, one day even the most stubborn kid is going to give in and do his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 To me, if it's true that he would fill in wrong answers purposefully, it sounds like he's being really disrespectful of you, your time and your effort. No, he wouldn't get it wrong on purpose. But whenever I am not standing right there, helping him step by step through the problems, he gets them wrong because he makes a stupid mistake or he forgets what he's doing and gets lost in the problem. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you stick with the timer and the rules and the consequences, one day even the most stubborn kid is going to give in and do his work. I don't know if it's stubbornness of just lack of ability on his part to read and follow directions and stay focused. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't know if it's stubbornness of just lack of ability on his part to read and follow directions and stay focused. Tara Well that's a different animal altogether. It sounds like you might be saying he CAN'T do it, rather than WON'T do it. If it's the former, perhaps some sort of behavioural therapy to help with attention? Completely out of my element there, though, so I am sorry. If he WON'T do it, I do think my and other's suggestions will help, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 There is a point at which your ds thinks some math is super easy. If you put a page of simple addition/subtraction/division/multiplication in front of him, he'd probably be able to complete the work with very little effort. If you're asking him to spend most of his math time on work that is above his ability level- nothing feeling easy - this is probably more of a cognitive load than he's able to carry. It's difficult to exercise that muscle so that they're (collect they're) more and more capable of working on more complex work, but you need to find the sweet spot. The place where most of the work is easy-peasy with just a bit of new information to practice. I'd think about whether your expectations with regards to his abilities are realistic. If he engages in the same behavior (crying and giving up) with super easy work, than I would say it's a behavior issue and not a work level issue. No, he wouldn't get it wrong on purpose. But whenever I am not standing right there, helping him step by step through the problems, he gets them wrong because he makes a stupid mistake or he forgets what he's doing and gets lost in the problem. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Aw. :grouphug: Put your feet up and have a Mike's. You've earned it. :cheers2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) I don't know if this will help you, but here's what I do with my 8yo 3rd grader daughter. She is...easily overwhelmed when she sees a whole page of math problems. We go through and do about half of them orally--anything she can do without writing it down to figure out, she just tells me the answer and I make a little check mark. (I don't help or give hints, I either ask the question out loud or point to it.) It only takes a few minutes to go through and do all the easy bits out loud, and after that she can see that she's already half done and it's not so bad any more. She still moans and groans her way through the rest of them half the time, but she pretty much does it, instead of freezing up or freaking out. I should add that I try to have a pretty impervious attitude about the whole thing--I am cheerfully heartless and try not to engage, though a little sternness comes in handy every once in a while. Edited January 15, 2012 by dangermom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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