I need wisdom and input re parents separating

[Perogi]

That fact that it is her parents doesn't change healthy boundaries.

 

He is a grown man. He's been married a long time. He knows that he "should" work on it. It's 2012; he knows the options of working on it.

 

Everyone leaving/ending a marriage knows this. I would not be quick to assume that the surface "grown apart" sufficiently describes his decision to end the marriage. You can be hurt, scared, and furious but give him the dignity of thought that he doesn't need to be reminded of basics he likely considered years ago.

 

That's all true.

 

However, what he doesn't know is how it is going to affect everyone from here on out. There is a sort of deception that clouds thinking when there is another person involved (which I hope there isn't, but statistically, likely is) I'd have no qualms about laying that out in stark detail after my own experiences (where we didn't).

 

Oh, I agree that it is very likely to be an outside love interest. I could write a book on how that will play out. A person leaving a marriage to due an affair operates under an addiction-like pattern and unreality.

 

I think engaging over it is useless, though.

 

I agree that there are boundaries but I don't think we would share our definition of healthy boundaries. And I realize that you speak from your perspective and I from mine - neither of us knowing enough about each other to be able to be conclusive about each other's lives. I do feel that we have enough of a relationship to allow for some discussion that might not work in other families.

 

I am concerned that engaging over it is useless but hope that we still have enough mutual respect that he will at least stop and think about what I have to say, whether or not it ultimately changes his mind.

[Perogi]

It is absolutely possible that there is no one else involved. I think many of us mentioned the idea because we wanted to be sure you were prepared for the worst, but I'm sure many men get divorced without another woman waiting in the wings.

 

I can readily admit that I am not prepared for this to be the reason. I can't help but suspect it because I'm not sure why else he would so suddenly and definitely make this decision.

 

Now that you mentioned his depression about his mom, that actually sort of supports the "no one else involved" theory. He may have simply reached a breaking point in the relationship with your mom, and there may not be another woman in the picture.

 

Imo, depression is almost certainly a factor. I think when his mother died he figured he only had 20 years left and suddenly doesn't want to bother with anything that doesn't make him "happy".

 

If you don't mind me asking this, how old is your father?

 

He is 58. My mom is 62. She retired 2 years ago (forced retirement, company closed) after working for 45 years. This is another factor. Mom is enjoying "doing nothing" for retirement, Dad thought that she would suddenly garden and cook amazing dinners, volunteer somewhere, etc. He doesn't have much respect for her choices in retirement.

 

Also, about your mom -- how long has it been since she held a job outside the home? In long term marriages where the wife hasn't worked for many years, the husband is often held responsible for supporting her -- and if she has a good attorney, your mom could end up being able to continue living in your parents' house and your dad could have to pay for her living expenses. The laws vary from state to state, but be sure to investigate your mom's rights to be sure she is protected.

 

This could be a very expensive divorce for your father, as long as your mother is insistent that she be properly provided for.

 

I'm not taking anyone's side here, and I know that neither your mom nor your dad are 100% at fault here, but if your father wants to change the status quo and get the divorce, I don't think your mom should have to run out and get a job to start supporting herself, at least not for quite some time. (And again, the older she is, the less likely it is that a judge would require her to do that.)

 

Financially, divorce is a disaster for many couples, even those who have quite a lot of money and significant assets, because both partners are used to living a certain way, and everything changes when they split up and discover that half the money doesn't pay for all of the lifestyle to which they're accustomed.

 

We're in Ontario - I have no idea what the laws are but will certainly be looking into it if I need to. At this point Mom has said that she's not leaving the house - I think Dad expected her to be okay moving to an apt. She has said that if they do permanently separate they will sell the house - apparantly Dad is having a hard time with the fact that his divorce will eat up his children's inheritance. At this point, Mom has suggested Dad move into the basement (his office is down there, there is a kitchen, full bathroom, family room and bedroom as well as a completely separate entrance) to try out a separation without financial stress.

[Perogi]

You're welcome! :001_smile: I have been worried about you.

 

Don't try to do anything important today. This is a huge shock for you, and you're nervous about meeting with your dad. Let yourself be upset; you deserve to feel angry and scared and worried.

 

I hope it goes well with your father tonight. He is probably as nervous as you are right now. He's probably afraid that he will lose his daughter as well as his wife. He's wondering if you will tell him you hate him for leaving your mom and that you'll never speak to him again. He's wondering how much he should tell you about what's going on inside his head.

 

The fact that he wants to meet with you and talk is a very good thing. He's not shutting you out, so don't shut him out, either.

 

But ask the questions you need to ask. (Make a little cheat sheet and hide it in the bathroom to refer back to, if you're afraid you'll forget something.) Come right out and ask if there's someone else, if that's something that's worrying you -- but be sure to try not to sound accusing about it, or he won't confide in you. I don't see anything wrong with asking him for his reasons for wanting the divorce, and since an affair is often a primary reason for it, I don't think he will be overly surprised at the question.

 

Above all, if he starts telling you the things that he doesn't like about your mom, don't defend her. He feels what he feels, and you can't change that, so the only thing that can happen if you defend your mom is that your father will think you're taking sides. Please remember that although it appears that your mom is the injured party here, her relationship with your father may have been far different than her relationship with you, and your father's complaints and reasons may be entirely valid.

 

Who knows, by the end of the conversation, you may start to understand what your father has been going through. You may never truly support the idea of your parents being divorced, but if you're open-minded and give your dad a chance to explain himself without being judgmental toward him, you might begin to comprehend why he needs this major change in his life.

 

I really wish this wasn't happening to you, though. I'll be sure to pray for you and your family.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Thank you for your kind words and thoughts. I hope that tonight turns out to be positive, one way or another. At the very least, a step in the right direction.

[Perogi]

For right now, don't worry about how the kids will react. They will adapt to the new situation far more readily than you will, and as long as they know that both of their grandparents still love them, they will be OK. Kids are often better than adults about the Big Stuff. Not everything is an episode of Dr Phil when you're a kid. If your mom and dad are OK, you're OK.

 

I think the biggest mistake you can make is to make a huge deal out of it with the kids. If you're matter-of-fact about how Grandma and Grandpa aren't going to be living together anymore (and don't provide a lot of additional details,) they'll be fine. If they hear you and your dh having long, drawn-out conversations filled with tears and wailing, they're going to be upset right along with you.

 

Obviously, your oldest child may be more aware of what's happening, but as long as you reassure her that you and your dh aren't getting divorced, and that she'll still be seeing both of her grandparents like she always did, I don't think this has to be a crisis situation for her.

 

The kids will deal with it if they see you dealing with it. If they see you falling apart every ten minutes, they will assume something horrible is happening and they will worry, too. If you're calm, positive, and matter-of-fact, while still supporting their emotions and being there to talk to them about it when they need to vent or ask questions, they'll be OK. (In fact, you may find yourself getting annoyed with them because they're handling it so well, and you'll wonder why they're not as upset as you are. ;))

 

I pray that you are right about the kids. I'm sure you probably are but the initial hurt that they will feel is heartbreaking to me. It's just a hard thing, imo, and I had hoped that they wouldn't feel the impact of divorce in their little lives in such a close and personal way. I will certainly maintain my compusure for their sakes.

[Perogi]

The OP has stated that the explanation she's been given is that they've grown apart. She may wonder if there are other issues involved, and she certainly can raise that question. You can disagree with me if you like, but I don't think asking the question violates healthy boundaries.

 

I agree - the simple act of asking questions is not a problem, imo. Being accusatory or asking for too much information, being a go-between, punishing, arguing, etc may be but I think I can ask questions.

I personally believe in "for better or for worse," assuming the marriage is not physically or emotionally unhealthy beyond repair. If the worst it gets is that two people have "grown apart," in my opinion that's not enough. That's not the point at which you bail. That's when it is time to go focus on your relationship and make a good faith effort to reconnect and repair.

 

I agree.

 

Maybe they've already tried. Maybe they haven't. We can't know. Again, feel free to disagree, but I don't think healthy boundaries mean that a daughter is not allowed to bring up the promises her parents made to each other.

 

Marriage isn't always, or even most of the time, a bed of roses.

Believe it or not, sometimes people DO need a reminder of that fact.

Yes, even in 2012.

 

This is my intention - to remind him of some things, gently and respectfully.

[Perogi]

Possibly. But I have learned with age (over 50 now) that calling someone on something flat out and addressing an issue head on seems to be more effective than not talking about it or talking around it.

 

No guarantees, of course.

 

No guarantees, but I'd like to feel that the "air is clear" between us.

[Perogi]

:grouphug:I have no advice, and I haven't read the other responses, but I wanted to say that I am so sorry and I can only imagine how difficult this is for you.

 

My dad passed away 20 years ago --

 

about 10 years ago, my mom began going to the movies and out to dinner with a very nice gentleman (he has since died). They had a nice friendship but I have to tell you, it was like my Freudian nightmare seeing my mom in the company of someone else.

 

I don't know what you should say to your dad, maybe just listen. As one of the boardies who is 'up there in years' (I'm 57), I would say to just listen.:grouphug:

 

I want to do lots of listening and hopefully clear up some of my confusion and know whether or not he has thought this through. I do also have some things I need to get out in the open though.

[Perogi]

Hi Melissa,

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this :grouphug:. I haven't read the entire thread, but there is one possibility that I have not yet seen someone address. You mentioned how out of character this seems for your father, and also that he seems to be having a hard time since his mother passed away. Could he possibly be suffering from clinical depression? I ask because I have seen a scenario where a person who would normally abhor the idea of divorce is in the midst of a major depressive episode and comes to think that divorce is the only way out of their misery. And I have seen the same situation resolve when said person received effective treatment for depression. Obviously I can't say this is what is happening with your dad--but I can't say it isn't either. A person suffering from depression often feels like everything in their world is wrong, and they need to just get out of the situation. If your dad is showing any other signs of depression--lack of interest in regular activity, change in appetite, unusual irritability, etc. I would seriously consider the possibility.

 

Of course, even if this is the case there may be little you are anyone else can do--especially for someone of that generation the idea of seeking help for a mental illness can be very difficult to swallow. It might however change the way family members view the whole situation.

 

I will be praying for you and your dad this evening.

--Sarah

 

Thank you for your prayers. I absolutely believe there is depression at play. We all knew that he was still grieving and struggling - particularly because he doesn't talk about his emotions, doens't give value to emotions and won't ask for help - and were trying to be supportive and give him time. I think this desire to leave the marriage has made us aware of the depth of his struggles.

 

I don't think he will seek help for it or recognize it, unfortunately. The "good news" is that it is helping Mom not to take this so personally.

[Perogi]

I understand the difficulty, feeling like you need to get it right so he;'ll understand and worried it won't change anything or that he won't even care. That's how I felt anyway. I'm so sorry. It's a horrible thing to have happen. I just felt like shaking my father and yelling at him, "YOU'RE SO STUPID, YOU CAN BE HAPPY. JUST BE NICE!!" but I knew it was no use. Good luck again

 

E.x.a.c.t.l.y.

[Perogi]

There is. But sometimes, there is just selfishness and lack of commitment. BTDT. What the OP needs to hear is what the real story is from her father. Has there been previously undisclosed abuse, infidelity, or soul-sucking pain? This meeting is where it would be helpful if that kind of disclosure needs to come out.

 

Right now from my perspective it is selfishness and lack of commitment triggered by grief, depression and a sense of his own mortality. I do hope tonight will shed light.

[Perogi]

We teach our children that our words and actions affect other people. We teach them that it is important to value and respect other people.

 

The OP's dad stated that he wants things to continue to be normal (referencing family get-togethers). That indicates that he is currently looking at things in an unrealistic way. If he thinks the family can just carry on without a major emotional fall-out, I think it is perfectly reasonable for someone to tell him otherwise. His actions will affect his loved ones. Because he loves them, he wants to believe the only outcome of this action will be eventual happiness for all. The OP said that if her husband was expressing the same reasons for divorcing her, her father would have a problem with it.

 

Perhaps politely and calmly asking questions such as, "How should we explain this to the children?" Or, "I don't understand your actions because you taught me to live differently." might be helpful in opening his eyes. He is an adult and he must make his own decisions. You may not have any sway over those decisions, and you will continue to love him regardless. I agree that noone can know the inside of the marriage and in the end, you don't want to know the gritty details if they go beyond, "We've grown apart." That statement is the one I would focus upon. That and the effect the action will have on others. Strive to speak in love.

 

Staying in good times and in bad can mean many different things and there has been no indication of abuse from the OP's perspective.

 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You have heard me loud and clear.

[Perogi]

Yet there's nothing in the OP that suggests anything so dramatic is going on with her parents. Nor did I ever say that divorce is never the right choice. Sometimes it is by far the best choice.

 

I believe that people have a right and even a responsibility to ask loved ones to carefully examine and even re-examine decisions of great import.

 

I'm glad you recognize your bias. While such feedback harmed you, I can only assume that anyone who gave such advice to you didn't have your best interests at heart and/or didn't know your marriage very well.

 

Again, none of us can know for sure, but I don't hear anything resembling your previous marriage in the OP's description of her parents' situation.

 

The bolded above is exactly how I feel. It concerns me that my father has openly admitted that he hasn't talked to anyone about this. No one. That is not good.

[Perogi]

hmmmmmm, good points, but as a parent, I don't think I'd want to share those kinds of details with my children -- even adult children. To this day, there are things that I will not ever share with my adult daughters. And if those kinds of things aren't shared, the words that are left, unfortunately, may sound selfish.

 

All of that aside, though, I meet so many women heartbroken, in their 50s and 60s, whose husbands have decided to look elsewhere for companionship. I think that, sadly, the spouse who decides to look elsewhere has mistaken 'pleasure' for 'happiness.'

 

I really, really, really don't want all the yucky details. Really. Which is why I'm not sure what to ask tonight. I do want to be assured that he is not making a knee-jerk decision that he will live to regret. I want him to understand the way the rest of us perceive this.

[Perogi]

I understand this. It's tough to see how his behavior hurts your mom (and yourself and potentially your children) and then not feel a traumatized or alienated by his choices.

 

My parents divorced while I was in high school, and in a pretty different scenario (my mother had a midlife crisis and left the family). For many years my dad was my hero for simply being there. Then he started dating a woman who is my interpersonal nightmare - jealous, manipulative, driving. As an adult, I had to come to grips with the idea that my dad is capable of happily making choices that put me out, that potentially hurt me, and which he blithely expects me to put up with.

 

So I decided to take some polite steps back here and there. For a while I would have a nice superficial conversation on the phone with him, and then cry inconsolably in private about how I really felt. Occasionally, something bothers me enough that I tell him that I do not want to have a part of that or discuss it. And he is very good about listening to and respecting those boundaries. So that's my safety valve. It's become a dance of what I must address to keep the relationship going, and what many things I must stop participating in in my dad's life to keep my own sense of dignity and sanity.

 

It hurt a lot to realize that my dad was fine with this! Just like my mom didn't mind leaving me if it meant she could go live where she wanted alone, my dad doesn't seem to mind dating someone who's nasty to me if it means he's in a committed relationship. It's a disappointment and that doesn't do much to keep up the bond.

 

If you have the strength to be honest with your father from the outset, I think that's healthy. It's not the same as telling him what to do with his life and his choices. I wish I could tell my parents how I really feel, but instead I choose to limit my relationship with them. It's tough and confusing, and you really have my sympathy.

 

Thank you. We have always had a very honest relationship and I'm not good at pretending with my parents, which is a big reason that I feel I need to get things all out on the table. I think there is more of a chance for hurt here by NOT having the conversation than there is by having the conversation. I don't want him to have to assume what I'm thinking or what my motivations are.

[Perogi]

i'm wondering what your dh thinks you might do/say that would help you and/or help your dad.

 

some things you might consider:

you might ask your dad at the beginning what he is hoping the outcome of your time together will be? you could ask if he's there to tell you what he's already decided or to talk it through with you to help him see all sides of it or somewhere in the middle? maybe he's there to try to help you come to terms with what he's already decided?

 

sometimes, clear statements of continued relationship helps. ie. i'm your daughter and i love you. i am not going to cut you out of my life.

 

sometimes, clear "i" statements (which don't feel as accusing as "you" statments) help. eg. "i'm really devastated that this is what you are considering. and i really don't quite know what to do or what to say. i want to love and support you, but this is a decision i'm not feeling like i want to support."

 

and then it may help to decide how you want it to finish up tonight and what you will say..... it may sound a lot like the beginning. (eg. i love you and i'm so sad that you are going thru this right now. i'm pretty sad we're all going thru this right now. there will be a lot of grieving to go thru. thank you for coming to talk to me. i'm going to do my best to stay in relationship with both of you. would you like to meet me for coffee friday night? (continued relationship). ok.

 

and it may help you before tonight to sit down at the computer and journal to yourself.

 

1. what happened. (dad called and asked to talk to me tonight about him divorcing mom). try to say it in one sentence without any emotion attached to it. just a bald statement of what happened.

 

2. how you feel about it. (angry, sad, confused, etc, etc) keep going until you have everything written down that you can come up with.

 

3. why you think it happened. really why. if any emotions come up during this question, it means you're not quite done with question 2 yet. it helps get down thru the layers of emotion. (i think it happened because dad's mom died and he's realizing he's next and that he isn't happy being married to mom. then add in the things that are possible, like, maybe he met someone else, maybe he's clinically depressed, maybe....) remember no one is going to see this but you....

 

4. what you need.

in a clear statement. this is hard, but just trying to answer it helps a lot. (eg. i need..... for this not to be happening. but it is. i need..... for mom and dad to be happy. then comes the soul searching if you need them to be happy together, or if you just want them to be happy however that plays out. you may end up back at question 2 to add "confused" to the list of emotions. notice that all of these are things you need someone else to be doing. now try to come up with things thru your eyes. eg. i need to be able to see my mom and my dad. i need to be able to love them. i need my children to have a good healthy relationship with my mom and my dad. it may be that you also feel as if you need to understand, need your dad to justify his actions, etc, etc. if you can leave it at this point and then come back, read it thru, and decide which of these needs are healthy and real and possible.... if in question 3 you answered that you think it is happening because he is clinically depressed, you might decide you need to ask him if he would consider going to see a counselor not about the marriage but about his mom's death before making any final decisions.....

 

5. what you're going to do next....

this is where the previous questions may help you decide whether you're going to ask certain questions or make certain statements or not.... (eg. if in number 4 you come to realize that nothing he could say would justify it, then there is not so much point in asking for justification. if you need for your family to be able to see them both at holidays, then you can ask him how he pictures holidays playing out, and then offer other scenarios..... and if you need to know that you want continued contact, then you can brainstorm ways you can nourish each parent during this time, and start doing that.... (maybe starting a phone call at the same time each week, or skyping or having friday tea with mom or ???). in the end, the only folks we can change are ourselves.

 

doing this helps center people a lot, and makes it less likely for you to be blindsided repeatedly by some emotions that you didn't know were lurking there.....

 

:grouphug:

ann

 

That sounds like a great process. I don't have time to work it through in detail right now because he'll be here in an hour and I've got to do dinner and kids' bedtime between now and then. But I'm coming back to this.

[Perogi]

just thought about food.

 

something else that might help is for you to have something to eat and drink together.... cookies and tea or ??? tonight. something that is comforting to you and to him. that also has an unspoken assurance of love and care, that what is happening is family getting together, not a question and answer meeting.

 

eating together helps calm us and bring us into communion together.

 

:grouphug:

ann

 

That's also very wise. Thank you.

[Perogi]

The details need not be shared. But saying something like, "There have been things in the marriage/done by your mother/other that have made it impossible to continue in this marriage," without going into detail, can, and in my opinion, should, be shared. Even something like, "I need out. I can't give details, and I don't do this lightly, and am aware of the impact it will have, but I cannot function anymore within this marriage."

 

I think that would say it all. I would listen to someone who said those words to me.

 

Even that would be helpful.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug: lighting a candle and praying for you now and for the next few hours.

 

ann

[tex-mex]

Right now from my perspective it is selfishness and lack of commitment triggered by grief, depression and a sense of his own mortality. I do hope tonight will shed light.

:grouphug: That is tough.

 

My only thought is that perhaps he is of the generation where talking about it is not easy or comfortable for him, kwim? To be looking for help or counseling for the grief or depression is like saying he is weak. That was our parent's generation -- pull yourself by the bootstraps mentality.

 

Try to hear him out. You will not solve anything in one meeting. See if he needs or is interested in counseling. Marriage takes 2 people wanting to WORK on major issues like this... perhaps he is done trying or your mom is not able to work on this for various reasons? Hang in there.

[Supertechmom]

I'm going to have to come back to this advice later. Much later. I cannot even go there in my own mind yet.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Hubby's had divorced parents and various steps at various times for most of his life and he still can't go there. It's not easy and I hope tonight's talk goes well for you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[hana]

Thinking of you. :grouphug:

[Mandowife]

I don't have time to read all the responses (got about page 5) but wanted to first offer hugs and second to share my experience.

 

My father asked my mother for a divorce 16 years ago. (they had been married 35 years at the time) Mom was devastated. We suspect there was another woman but didn't focus on that. Instead, my sister, brother and I went to meet with our dad.

We told him that we loved him and always would. But we made it clear that things would be different. He wouldn't get every holiday with his grand kids or vacations now spent with them would have to be divided etc. We just made it clear what life would look like regarding his children and grandchildren. No malice, just facts. We also told him that we were disappointed in how he was treating our mother. And while we recognized that she could be difficult, she was still our mother and we felt she deserved a husband that was willing to fight for their marriage.

 

Long story short.... After a lot of work, their marriage is better now than it has ever been. I know that isn't how most end up, but dad said us talking to him was what made him decide to fight for his marriage (and give up the other woman, we found out later).

 

We said what we did in love and were not afraid and it made a difference.

 

 

I'll be praying for you and your parents(((hugs)))

[Catwoman]

OK, I'm starting to understand your father's "grass is greener" mentality. For some reason, I was thinking that he was a lot older than 58, but knowing that your parents have been married for 37 years, your father married when he was only 21, and he may just be having a belated mid-life crisis, where he feels he has missed out on a lot of things by having been married for pretty much all of his adult life.

 

It's just a shame that he doesn't realize your mom missed out on all the same things, because they are at the point where they could be doing a lot of things together, instead of splitting up. (Or maybe he has tried, and your mom just doesn't want to get out and do more.)

 

You mentioned that your dad doesn't approve of the way your mom is choosing to spend her time now that she is retired. Was he, perhaps, hoping that they would travel together, or that they would get out of the house and do more fun things? If that's the case and she's "doing nothing," he might feel like she's acting too old while he wants to feel younger. He might be bored sick, just sitting around the house with her, and maybe he feels that if he's going to have to go out and do things by himself, there's no point in being married to your mom any more. Maybe he wants to meet someone else who shares his interests and he doesn't feel that your mom is willing to meet him halfway.

 

I know you said that your mom is against the divorce, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's willing to change her ways to make your father happy. (I'm also not saying that she needs to do that, but I'm trying to look at this from your dad's side for a minute.)

 

All I know is that my dh is older than 58 (and I would like to also point out that there is a BIG age difference between us :tongue_smilie:) and if he thought I was going to sit around the house and act like an old retired lady, he'd be bored out of his wits. At 58, your father has a lot of good years left in him, and your mom may be acting a lot older than 62, so maybe he's worried that she's going to drag him into feeling older than he is.

 

Good luck tonight -- I'll be praying for you! :grouphug:

[Perogi]

:grouphug: lighting a candle and praying for you now and for the next few hours.

 

ann

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Hubby's had divorced parents and various steps at various times for most of his life and he still can't go there. It's not easy and I hope tonight's talk goes well for you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Thank you both. I can't talk to anyone irl becuase we just moved here in the summer and really don't feel comfortable discussing this with new friends. Also, so far Mom and Dad are keeping it private so I have to be careful.

[Perogi]

:grouphug: That is tough.

 

My only thought is that perhaps he is of the generation where talking about it is not easy or comfortable for him, kwim? To be looking for help or counseling for the grief or depression is like saying he is weak. That was our parent's generation -- pull yourself by the bootstraps mentality.

 

Try to hear him out. You will not solve anything in one meeting. See if he needs or is interested in counseling. Marriage takes 2 people wanting to WORK on major issues like this... perhaps he is done trying or your mom is not able to work on this for various reasons? Hang in there.

 

You're right - he would be very uncomfortable asking for help. As I've recently been reflecting on his life I realized that he has always (as far as I can remember) put himself in friendships and relationships where he is the mentor. He doesn't ask for help. He views himself as strong, capable, confident, etc. and has been very successful at most everything he's ever done.

 

They are in counseling but my understanding is that he approached counseling at my mom's request and basically said they needed help making the transition - big difference to seeking counseling to work on the marriage, kwim? Mom has offerred to do whatever to make things better but he says that it's no use, it's too far gone already. I will admit that they seem rather mismatched (different interests, energy levels, etc) so I get that it would be difficult - but something drew them together in the first place, right?!

[Perogi]

Thinking of you. :grouphug:

 

Thank you.

[Perogi]

I don't have time to read all the responses (got about page 5) but wanted to first offer hugs and second to share my experience.

 

My father asked my mother for a divorce 16 years ago. (they had been married 35 years at the time) Mom was devastated. We suspect there was another woman but didn't focus on that. Instead, my sister, brother and I went to meet with our dad.

We told him that we loved him and always would. But we made it clear that things would be different. He wouldn't get every holiday with his grand kids or vacations now spent with them would have to be divided etc. We just made it clear what life would look like regarding his children and grandchildren. No malice, just facts. We also told him that we were disappointed in how he was treating our mother. And while we recognized that she could be difficult, she was still our mother and we felt she deserved a husband that was willing to fight for their marriage.

 

Long story short.... After a lot of work, their marriage is better now than it has ever been. I know that isn't how most end up, but dad said us talking to him was what made him decide to fight for his marriage (and give up the other woman, we found out later).

 

We said what we did in love and were not afraid and it made a difference.

 

 

I'll be praying for you and your parents(((hugs)))

 

That is my hope. I'm so glad that it worked out for your family. We do have a good relationship so I'm hoping that he gives my words some weight.

[Catwoman]

I will admit that they seem rather mismatched (different interests, energy levels, etc) so I get that it would be difficult - but something drew them together in the first place, right?!

 

But people can change a lot in 37 years, so the qualities that originally attracted them to each other may no longer exist, or may no longer be viewed as positive things. :(

[Perogi]

OK, I'm starting to understand your father's "grass is greener" mentality. For some reason, I was thinking that he was a lot older than 58, but knowing that your parents have been married for 37 years, your father married when he was only 21, and he may just be having a belated mid-life crisis, where he feels he has missed out on a lot of things by having been married for pretty much all of his adult life.

 

I know that he has been "unhappy" or "unfulfilled" for many years, but they've been silent years - he's never voiced this to my mom before. I don't know if it's that he missed out on things by being married, but by being married TO HER.

 

It's just a shame that he doesn't realize your mom missed out on all the same things, because they are at the point where they could be doing a lot of things together, instead of splitting up. (Or maybe he has tried, and your mom just doesn't want to get out and do more.)

 

They do have different ideas of "fun"...But I believe that Mom would try if she understood how badly he wanted it.

 

You mentioned that your dad doesn't approve of the way your mom is choosing to spend her time now that she is retired. Was he, perhaps, hoping that they would travel together, or that they would get out of the house and do more fun things? If that's the case and she's "doing nothing," he might feel like she's acting too old while he wants to feel younger. He might be bored sick, just sitting around the house with her, and maybe he feels that if he's going to have to go out and do things by himself, there's no point in being married to your mom any more. Maybe he wants to meet someone else who shares his interests and he doesn't feel that your mom is willing to meet him halfway.

 

He does, and always has done, a lot of things by himself. He works and travels a lot and has a hobby that draws him away from home a lot as well (show birds). He's not sitting around the house being bored but he's not finding fulfillment in the little bit of time they do spend together.

 

I know you said that your mom is against the divorce, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's willing to change her ways to make your father happy. (I'm also not saying that she needs to do that, but I'm trying to look at this from your dad's side for a minute.)

 

I know she would try - I don't know how if it would be enough. I don't know what he would expect or what he's willing to compromise on. She is who she is, he is who he is, you know?

 

All I know is that my dh is older than 58 (and I would like to also point out that there is a BIG age difference between us :tongue_smilie:) and if he thought I was going to sit around the house and act like an old retired lady, he'd be bored out of his wits. At 58, your father has a lot of good years left in him, and your mom may be acting a lot older than 62, so maybe he's worried that she's going to drag him into feeling older than he is.

 

Good luck tonight -- I'll be praying for you! :grouphug:

 

You are very perceptive!! Dad doesn't want to face aging at all and would be quite happy to continue to act like he's in his 40's! She isn't a very active person so she's happy to sit around, watch TV, do some shopping, go out for dinner, etc. On the other hand, when she comes and stays with us she is a workhorse helping me out around the house. They have a strange dynamic that I think has caused some apathy between them. He is very busy, never comes home when he says he will, goes away often, doesn't pick up after himself or contribute to the housework if Mom asks him to, etc. Thus, she is unmotivated to cook a nice dinner because he might not show up until an hour after he said he would, she can't do all the yardwork herself and since he won't help she doesn't even bother, she's tired of picking up after him so she doesn't bother doing a whole lot of housekeeping. When I really stop and think about it I feel overwhelmed by all that would have to be addressed. But I would hope/think that a good counselor would help.

 

Thank you for your prayers.

[Catwoman]

Just checking in on you, Melissa, and hoping things went well with your father. :grouphug:

[elfgivas]

came by just before bed to see how you were doing. :grouphug:

 

ann

[Perogi]

Just climbed into bed myself. My head is pounding. I don't know how to say it went...he confirmed that he is certain he wants to separate and doesn't see any hope for things to improve to a point where he would feel fulfilled. He feels like he has tried. He says there isn't anyone else in any way. When I pressed he said that he may date again in the future but he hasn't spent a lot of time thinking about it and it isn't the reason.

 

Dh says I expressed myself well. At some point I kind of gave up because it became clear that he isn't willing to try - he came right out and said that he has no desire to try any longer. He is very confident that they will both be happier this way.

 

He and I both cried. I expressed my disappointment and hurt and he became emotional. He seems to be struggling most with disappointing my brother and I and not knowing how to "best" do this so he causes my mom the least amount of pain.

 

I'm sure I'll spend the next couple of days trying to process it all.

 

I called Mom to let her know that he was on his way home and she asked how I was feeling. When I said that I still felt hurt but know it was a conversation we needed to have she sounded disappointed. I think she was hoping talking to me might change his mind.

 

This sucks.

[Starr]

A family member of ours came up with this divorce idea at about the same age as your parents. The wife went to be for several days and refused to discuss it. That ended that idea. I guess for me changing your spouse because they are who they've always been just doesn't make sense. I agree with letting him know that things will change and it won't be all of you together for family events. It might not bother him but it might well bother your mom to be around him. Once he's divorced he doesn't get to call the shots. People seem to think they can have it all. I'm really sorry.

[Lawana]

Just climbed into bed myself. My head is pounding. I don't know how to say it went...he confirmed that he is certain he wants to separate and doesn't see any hope for things to improve to a point where he would feel fulfilled. He feels like he has tried. He says there isn't anyone else in any way. When I pressed he said that he may date again in the future but he hasn't spent a lot of time thinking about it and it isn't the reason.

 

Dh says I expressed myself well. At some point I kind of gave up because it became clear that he isn't willing to try - he came right out and said that he has no desire to try any longer. He is very confident that they will both be happier this way.

 

He and I both cried. I expressed my disappointment and hurt and he became emotional. He seems to be struggling most with disappointing my brother and I and not knowing how to "best" do this so he causes my mom the least amount of pain.

 

I'm sure I'll spend the next couple of days trying to process it all.

 

I called Mom to let her know that he was on his way home and she asked how I was feeling. When I said that I still felt hurt but know it was a conversation we needed to have she sounded disappointed. I think she was hoping talking to me might change his mind.

 

This sucks.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Were you able to discuss his ideas about how family holidays and gatherings would be if they were, in fact, to divorce?

ETA. Was he able to shed any light on the why, other than he wasn't happy?

Edited January 14, 2012 by Lawana

[Denisemomof4]

Just climbed into bed myself. My head is pounding. I don't know how to say it went...he confirmed that he is certain he wants to separate and doesn't see any hope for things to improve to a point where he would feel fulfilled. He feels like he has tried. He says there isn't anyone else in any way. When I pressed he said that he may date again in the future but he hasn't spent a lot of time thinking about it and it isn't the reason.

 

Dh says I expressed myself well. At some point I kind of gave up because it became clear that he isn't willing to try - he came right out and said that he has no desire to try any longer. He is very confident that they will both be happier this way.

 

He and I both cried. I expressed my disappointment and hurt and he became emotional. He seems to be struggling most with disappointing my brother and I and not knowing how to "best" do this so he causes my mom the least amount of pain.

 

I'm sure I'll spend the next couple of days trying to process it all.

 

I called Mom to let her know that he was on his way home and she asked how I was feeling. When I said that I still felt hurt but know it was a conversation we needed to have she sounded disappointed. I think she was hoping talking to me might change his mind.

 

This sucks.

 

Wow. What a tough situation. I'm so sorry for all of you, but especially your poor mother.

 

I hope you can find peace. I'm sorry I have nothing more to say.

[Perogi]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Were you able to discuss his ideas about how family holidays and gatherings would be if they were, in fact, to divorce?

ETA. Was he able to shed any light on the why, other than he wasn't happy?

 

We talked a bit about it and he expressed hope that we can handle this in such a way that we preserve our family relationships. He admitted that he can't predict exactly how it's all going to shake down.

 

He really feels they have nothing in common and no companionship. He said he feels stressed when she's around and enjoys when she's gone for extended periods of time visiting me or my brother. He described them as sharing a house but living two separate lives. I think from what he said that he feels guilty for not feeling in love with her and not wanting to treat her in special ways that a husband should. He said he just cant muster up any kind of intimate or romantic feelings for her.

[LibraryLover]

[quote name='Perogi;3499933

I get the feeling that he has some unrealistic ideas about what it would actually look like. For example' date=' he thinks we'll still all get together at Christmas rather than having separate gatherings[/b'] :confused:[/QUOTE]

 

Why not? I have hosted such gatherings for over 20 years. It's not been a big deal. The first year was a little worrisome for me, but my parents are very loving, very mature.

Edited January 14, 2012 by LibraryLover

[luvnlattes]

I'm sorry you're going through this. :grouphug:

[Canadianmumof5]

I'm sorry I don't have anything but :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: for you.

[Catwoman]

We talked a bit about it and he expressed hope that we can handle this in such a way that we preserve our family relationships. He admitted that he can't predict exactly how it's all going to shake down.

 

He really feels they have nothing in common and no companionship. He said he feels stressed when she's around and enjoys when she's gone for extended periods of time visiting me or my brother. He described them as sharing a house but living two separate lives. I think from what he said that he feels guilty for not feeling in love with her and not wanting to treat her in special ways that a husband should. He said he just cant muster up any kind of intimate or romantic feelings for her.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

As awful as this is going to sound, I can see the positive aspects of this.

 

Your father isn't just some jerk who's leaving your mom without a second thought. He's concerned about her feelings and about how you and your brother will deal with everything. He did his best to explain what's going on in his head, and in all honesty, it sounds like his reasons are valid. You may not like them, and your mom may be hurt, but sometimes people change too much over the years, and grow too far apart to ever really love each other as a husband and wife should.

 

He sounds like a good man in a bad situation. It appears that this isn't some random quickie decision on his part, and that he has thought it through carefully.

 

My best advice to you is to keep the door open and try to help both of your parents through this. Just because your father is the one who decided he wants a divorce, doesn't make him the "bad guy" here; both he and your mom had a part in the marriage not working, and ultimately, he may be doing them both a favor by ending it. Let's face it, would you really want to see your mother live the rest of her life in an unhappy relationship where she doesn't feel loved and cherished?

 

I'm glad you spoke with your father about the "other woman" thing and that you're satisfied that he's being truthful. It will make the whole process much easier for everyone.

[Joanne]

Just climbed into bed myself. My head is pounding. I don't know how to say it went...he confirmed that he is certain he wants to separate and doesn't see any hope for things to improve to a point where he would feel fulfilled. He feels like he has tried. He says there isn't anyone else in any way. When I pressed he said that he may date again in the future but he hasn't spent a lot of time thinking about it and it isn't the reason.

 

Dh says I expressed myself well. At some point I kind of gave up because it became clear that he isn't willing to try - he came right out and said that he has no desire to try any longer. He is very confident that they will both be happier this way.

 

He and I both cried. I expressed my disappointment and hurt and he became emotional. He seems to be struggling most with disappointing my brother and I and not knowing how to "best" do this so he causes my mom the least amount of pain.

 

I'm sure I'll spend the next couple of days trying to process it all.

 

I called Mom to let her know that he was on his way home and she asked how I was feeling. When I said that I still felt hurt but know it was a conversation we needed to have she sounded disappointed. I think she was hoping talking to me might change his mind.

 

This sucks.

 

{{{many hugs}}}

 

Your Dad sounds like a good, thoughtful, guy. I know you are hurting, and will be for some time. It sounds like he's been "trying" and thinking about this for a long, long time.