Jump to content

Menu

I need wisdom and input re parents separating


Recommended Posts

:grouphug:

 

First, it really isn't about you and how it will affect you and your family. Your parents are adults. This is their marriage.

And you actually may have family gatherings.

My parents had a very ugly and violent divorce when I was younger. Now, 30 years later, I am always amazed when we have family gatherings and they are friendly towards each other. My stepdad even went fishing with my dad a few years ago.

My in-laws got divorced ten years ago after 40 years of marriage. They did remain friendly, through the divorce and to present.

 

:iagree:

 

I just don't see the logic in: "this isn't about you and how it will affect you and your family". That's not ALL it's about but I can't imagine advocating that a parent can act however they deem fit without any thought or concern to their offspring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 140
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I have not BTDT from the adult child side. But, I would like to offer some feedback to the post.

 

You are going to hurt and grieve. Even if they reconcile, your world has been shaken. You will feel that, regardless of where the divorce lands on your scale of "valid." Those feelings, created by the situation of your parents, are yours; your parent (and especially Dad) are not responsible for them. They are valid, understandable, and deep feelings - but not his to deal with.

 

Yes, they are my feelings and in some ways nothing will ever be the same again. Unfortunately, as long as my Dad and I have a relationship we impact each other and have to be prepared to deal with the outcome. My feelings are not his responsibility but the fallout of his actions are his responsibility. I don't think anyone can simply act without considering how it will affect those that they love.

 

Your parents will each have their own complicated feelings. How much to share with you also be complicated, and difficult. Your Dad is likely to want you to at least "understand," but if he's even remotely emotionally healthy, he won't want to give you too much information so that you are put in an inappropriate role.

 

This is accurate. I can tell that he doesn't want to give me too much info but is looking for my understanding. I'm having a hard time understanding any of it.

 

Also, remember that even if he is the one who is initiating and driving this, he is also hurting. It may be hard to see or understand that, but he's hurting also.

 

I know he is hurting. It's my opinion that his hurt has more to do with losing his mother than anything else. I'm not following his logic to this conclusion. I don't think leaving the marriage will end the hurt, kwim?

 

You might want to practice or rehearse a boundaried, loving paragraph:

 

"Dad, there are a lot of big feelings involved here. Yours, Moms, the kids. The big feelings are going to go on for a while. If I withdraw a bit from you in order to take care of my feelings, please understand. I want you and Mom to be happy; preferably happily together. I am terribly sad that doesn't seem to be the case."

 

I really, really, really like that. I might have to have a cheat sheet tonight ;)

 

Now, speaking as a divorced woman, I would like to say you are talking as an adult to other adults - and your parents. I'd encourage you to consciously avoid as much as you can judgment about the divorce or the persons in it. It's very likely you'll never now the whole story.

 

I don't as much want to pass judgment as I want to question some things I guess. This is very out of character for him and is inconsistent with other things he has said and done over the years. I'd like to point that out.

 

I'm sorry you are hurting.

 

Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Over the Christmas holidays my parents informed me that they were in counseling. This week, my dad sent my brother and I an email stating that his intention is to separate from my mom. I'm feeling all kinds of confusion, anger, sorrow, anger, disillusionment, anger....

 

Dad is coming to my place tomorrow night to talk to me about this. So far both of my parents have told me that the issue is that my dad feels they have grown apart over the years, no longer have anything beyond their family in common and there is no reason to stay married. The old "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line. My mom is still hoping for reconciliation.

 

I would appreciate some btdt advice on how to handle this situation. I don't even really know what to say to him tomorrow. I don't want to get in the middle of things but I definitely have some thoughts and questions.

 

I will say that my family is pretty free of drama so I don't expect this to get ugly or anything but I don't want to look back with regret in 5 years about thing I did or didn't do or say.

 

If this does happen, the next bridge to cross will be telling my children, who are extremely close to their grandparents and really haven't yet been touched by divorce in any way.

 

This whole situation just seems unbelievable and has really wreaked havoc on me this week.

So...who IS she?

 

Sorry, brings back memories. At least he is talking to you, which is good.

 

I know how it hurts. Parents who delude themselves into thinking that since the kids are all grown up that it won't matter to them are ridiculous.

 

Oh, I should shut up now.

 

Anyway, if there is really no other woman and if it is out of character for him, it could be a response to something physiological going on...

Edited by TranquilMind
Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, I would say how sorry I am to hear this. It's a very tough situation to be in. You're an adult but you're still your parents children. Going forward, it's okay to be upset about the situation and should they divorce, mourn the end of the marriage.

 

Second, before your father speaks his piece, I would lay some ground rules. You are not his sounding board or his therapist. He will probably be tempted to tell you things about his marriage that you don't need to hear. Both my parents wanted to tattle on each other, but my siblings and I made it clear that this was unacceptable. This rule was a very firm, bright line (no mention, whatsoever) and for a period of time, we cut off contact from one parent because the rule wasn't respected. Just because you're an adult doesn't mean he gets to share adult thoughts with you.

 

Chances are, your father has thought about doing this for along time. You don't and can't know the entire history of your parents' marriage. I wouldn't expect a full account of his reasoning. Honestly, I wouldn't want to hear it. As pp said, he has probably met someone and just doesn't want to tell you. In my experience, when the men initiated the divorce, there was someone waiting in the wings.

 

If you want to share your feelings, I would be very general about them. Your father probably knows you're upset and disappointed. There isn't any need to list everything. I did tell my parents that I wished they could work things out and get back together. I also told them I thought it was a tragedy their long marriage was coming to an end. But I didn't tell them they could work it out, and I didn't threaten withholding of affection.

 

Finally, if your parents divorce and they find other partners, treat the new people cordially and with courtesy. Even though I haven't always liked the people my parents dated, I tried to be polite and welcoming. We still run into many odd situations. When my father's mother was declining, my mother was upset because she wasn't immediately called. I had to remind her she wasn't part of my father's family any more.

 

I was and forever will be grateful my parents didn't divorce when I was younger. Although not perfect, they were very loving and affectionate towards each other when I was growing up.

 

This sounds very reasonable. I truly don't think that Dad is looking to tattle on my mom but being explicit about my expectations in that regard is a good idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mom and dad have been divorced for about 25 years. Every Christmas and every summer they both come and stay at my house for a week - together. My sister and her dh and ds come, too. I am really thankful that we're able to enjoy time together. It's also great for my kids. When we get talking about when my sister and I were kids we have both of our parents contributing their memories.

 

That sounds too good to be true. Does that mean that they've never remarried?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Such thoughtful, balanced advice! :iagree: My parents separated after 20+ years....I remember my father calling me and telling me....it was right after I'd returned from my honeymoon. Yuck. Their relationship was always rocky so it wasn't a HUGE suprise but the timing was lousy. I hope your parents can maintain civility as it will make everything easier. My mother is a bitter, angry and hateful woman because she sees herself as a victim and my father is the devil incarnate. It makes any family event problematic as she won't come to even a wedding or graduation if he's in the same room. My only advice to add to Joann's great insight here is to try not to do anything that will further divide them and make for discomfort for them and the rest of the family in the years to come. This is no fun and I feel for you. BTDT. So sorry it's happening.

 

Wow. I thought Christmas was lousy timing. I can't imagine that after a honeymoon. Even though I've been happily married for 10 years this has caused me to feel afraid that this will one day be my story too.

 

So far they are maintaining civility. I pray that it stays that way but don't know what to trust anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:grouphug:

 

my parents divorced after 40 years of marriage.

 

its just hard, very hard. i wish i'd talked more about how it would impact everyone, not just them. it likely wouldn't have mattered, as it turned out that "grown apart" in his case was a euphemism for "met someone else at work". sigh.....

 

your poor mom :(

 

and poor you, too :grouphug:.

 

ann

 

Yeah.

 

99.99999999% of the time, this is the case, especially for men.

 

I'm sorry for everyone involved -and you too!

 

I understand, unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't read all the responses, so here goes. My parents divorced after 35 years. My mom was completely justified in divorcing dad, he had been unfaithful for probably 32 of those years.

 

Even feeling happy for my mom that she did not have to put up with dad anymore the divorce has been awful. Ruined holidays, makes the grandchildren and children unhappy, dad remarried the mistress who was the final straw and mom has married two losers since then.

 

If I were you I'd tell your dad to straighten his @$$ up.

 

Ha! That's exactly what I'd like to say :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also think about yourself and your family. You and your hubby may want to discuss how you feel about a new man or woman suddenly becoming "grandma or grandpa". My hubby has a huge problem with it and his parents can not give him the space or time before suddenly some person we've never seen before is hugging our kids, gushing over how they love their "new" grand kids. And while that can be perfectly fine in a lot of cases, it can be bad in others. We met his latest step dad over a mother's day a few years ago and we didn't even know she had been dating anyone. Exploring those possibilities before they come up and maybe working through some of it first could be helpful. ( far better than this:001_huh: in the heat of the moment. My hubby never does well in that moment :glare: and deeply resents his parents for springing new parents on him without telling him)

 

Second, I greatly encourage setting ground rules on meeting the new family your parents will bring to the table. When you are in your 40's, suddenly taking in complete strangers and loving them like your brother is hard and dealing with upset parents when you don't instantly throw open your arms and cry out "my long lost brother" is stressful. If you feel this may be a difficult issue for you, let your parents know how you feel about that and how you would like to handle that.

Lots of my hubby 's resentment could have been avoided if he and his parents had just agreed to some basic rules that would make both sides comfortable in these situations.

 

:grouphug: this is hard when it happens and I think particularly hard when everyone is older and it's not as easy to forge those relationships like when you are kids. But communicating is the key and being honest with each other will help iron out things.

 

I'm going to have to come back to this advice later. Much later. I cannot even go there in my own mind yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How are you feeling today, Melissa?

 

I know this is so hard on you, and I'm sure your nervous about what to say when you see your father, so feel free to rant and complain to us as much as you need to. We're here for you if you need us.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Thanks for checking in :grouphug: That really meant a lot to me.

 

I am nervous. I haven't been able to do anything today - I'm still in jammies, the kids have been listening to an audiobook and colouring as "school" and then playing outside. I can't think about anything else. I'm sure I'll be back to cry on your shoulders after the conversation tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot suggestions for your kids.

 

Be age appropriately honest:

 

"Adults sometimes get divorced. It's an adult issue, but it affects you. You might feel confused, scared, and wonder why there are so many conversations and hurt feelings. You may even wonder if us (your mom and dad) will get divorced. It's ok to feel confused, and scared. Mom, Dad, Grandma and Grandpa love you."

 

 

I know this is right but it feels so inadequate. That really won't answer their questions or do much for the way they're feeling. I hate this for my kids; they love their grandparents so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know that I have anything of use to offer other than a :grouphug:. My parents divorced after 30 years. It wasn't really a surprise as they had never seemed to have gotten along, but it still hurt. In the months that followed, my dad did some really awful things and I haven't talked to him in about three years.

 

You are free to be angry, hurt, disappointed, etc. But it's unlikely that you'll be able to say anything to change his mind. Good luck to you, I know how much you're hurting.

 

Yes, he already seems to have made his mind up which makes tonight feel somewhat pointless. And yet, I feel compelled to try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hear him out and just be kind. My parents divorced after 23 years of marriage and it was hard on my dad. He wanted things to stay the same but mom was miserable. If counseling hasn't given him hope of it getting better and no one is willing to change it up to make it better for both people then all you can do is be supportive. Listen, hug and let them figure it out. :grouphug:

 

I will do my best.

 

They have only had 3 counselling sessions and from my understanding they arrived at counseling saying that Dad wants to leave and Mom doesn't want a divorce. I'm not convinced he's giving counseling a chance. Mom is willing to try, Dad says it's too far gone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was in high school, my parents separated after 24 years of marriage. My dad hit a midlife thing and had formed what I was told was just an emotional attachment to a woman (no physical affair, just a relationship that made him ask, "What if? Is what I have what I want for the rest of my life?" etc.). He and my mom had also grown apart; they were not angry with each other, just not friends anymore. Dad left for most of my senior year.

 

In the end, he sucked it up and came back. I'm proud of him for that (although it wasn't a smooth transition back). I didn't know, and still don't, a lot of the details. I don't know if they were in counseling even. What I do know is that he weighed the options, tried living on his own for awhile, and he chose to stay true to his commitment after all. They just celebrated their 50th anniversary this past year, and they're happy together. They're not all ooshy-gooshy wah-wah, but then again they never were that type. They have a common appreciation for their marriage, for their kids (us) and their grandkids, and they have established a lifestyle they both like. I do see their birthday and anniversary cards to each other from time to time, and by what they write, they sincerely love each other again. Their anniversary parties were so joyful and fun.

 

I know each situation is different so telling stories may do no good. I happen to be of the opinion that you do have a voice, that you can say what you're thinking. If it was your neighbors or the parents of your friend, maybe not. But this is your parents and it does involve you to a degree (more than anyone else). I was only 17, but my mom came to me some for both a shoulder and some words of hope/advice. My hope if I were in your situation would be that my dad would maybe take some time on his own, but not seek divorce immediately. Live separately (but still married, and -- hopefully!! -- still faithful) and see what it's really like. To me, this would show some honor for all those years given previously.

 

I hope it turns out well.

 

I hope this is the end to my story as well. I hope that separation will not live up to his expectations.

 

I also feel that I do have a place to voice my opinion, to some degree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I would tell your dad the truth from your point of view. My mother left my father under similar circumstances and now deeply regrets it.

 

I would maybe ask him questions:

 

Why now after all these years?

 

Second, when there is not an egregious marriage and no precipitating event (from first question), my experience would lead me to ask whether your dad has found another woman. I have seen that over and over (whether it is the wife or husband deciding to lead. They have someone else waiting in the wings.) Ask the question directly: Is there another woman you have in your sights? (that disallows the wiggle room that people use if your question implied adultery, but they've only kissed, etc.) Listen to see if there is anything other than a direct no. "How could you accuse me of that?" is not a no. "I am not planning to jump right into another marriage" is again not a no, though both those answers sound like it. So instead, "I didn't accuse you of anything, but I am asking if this decision might have been affected at all by another woman." or "I didn't ask about another marriage; I'm asking if this decision might be precipitated by there being another woman in the picture, no matter how small the influence."

 

How does he know that there is no way to put it back together? (Lots of people do and find the feelings return)

 

If he mentions that the family will not be impacted now or that the impact will be small, I think he deserves to hear what your assessment is. The divorce will impact the family forever: holidays, weddings, photos, feelings. My parents were divorced when I was 16. The kids paid big time and there continue to be issues that impact us even this far out. My mother sees that and hates it because she left a marriage that had no major negatives because she had a fantasy of a soul-mate in mind. That's her reflection, not my interpretation. Your dad could be in the same boat. My mom always warns people that divorce will probably not give you what you're looking for in those circumstances.

 

You are not "taking your mom's side" in not automatically supporting a desire for divorce; you are taking the side of the marriage. Taking your mom's side would be saying she had nothing to change, that everything was his fault. Taking the side of the marriage is taking the side of the family as a whole. Social pressure to hang in there is unhealthy when there is abuse, serial infidelity, etc, but when it's just become "dull", social pressure to preserve the marriage serves a purpose. We all know of people ready to call it quits who hung in there because of some pressure from here or there, and then were so thankful that they did.

Edited by Laurie4b
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No advice, but I do agree with this:

 

This is your family of origin that is falling apart right now. In my opinion, it is your business, whether your parents like it or not.

 

Assuming abuse is not the problem, I'd encourage both to work on repairing their relationship. Your words may be the nudge your dad needs.

 

Abuse is not the problem. The problem is that they don't have things in common and didn't nurture their relationship for all the years that they were busy with work and children. I don't think my dad likes her anymore.

 

I want to encourage him to try and I hope that my words have some impact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...who IS she?

 

Sorry, brings back memories. At least he is talking to you, which is good.

 

I know how it hurts. Parents who delude themselves into thinking that since the kids are all grown up that it won't matter to them are ridiculous.

 

Oh, I should shut up now.

 

Anyway, if there is really no other woman and if it is out of character for him, it could be a response to something physiological going on...

 

Ugh. I hate that everyone is suspicious of there being another woman - because I am too but I really don't want that to be the case. Is is possible that the other woman is an idea right now as opposed to an actual person and relationship?

 

I do think depression is playing a part here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I would tell your dad the truth from your point of view. My mother left my father under similar circumstances and now deeply regrets it.

 

I would maybe ask him questions:

 

Why now after all these years?

 

Second, when there is not an egregious marriage and no precipitating event (from first question), my experience would lead me to ask whether your dad has found another woman. I have seen that over and over (whether it is the wife or husband deciding to lead. They have someone else waiting in the wings.) Ask the question directly: Is there another woman you have in your sights? (that disallows the wiggle room that people use if your question implied adultery, but they've only kissed, etc.) Listen to see if there is anything other than a direct no. "How could you accuse me of that?" is not a no. "I am not planning to jump right into another marriage" is again not a no, though both those answers sound like it. So instead, "I didn't accuse you of anything, but I am asking if this decision might have been affected at all by another woman." or "I didn't ask about another marriage; I'm asking if this decision might be precipitated by there being another woman in the picture, no matter how small the influence."

 

How does he know that there is no way to put it back together? (Lots of people do and find the feelings return)

 

If he mentions that the family will not be impacted now or that the impact will be small, I think he deserves to hear what your assessment is. The divorce will impact the family forever: holidays, weddings, photos, feelings. My parents were divorced when I was 16. The kids paid big time and there continue to be issues that impact us even this far out. My mother sees that and hates it because she left a marriage that had no major negatives because she had a fantasy of a soul-mate in mind. That's her reflection, not my interpretation. Your dad could be in the same boat. My mom always warns people that divorce will probably not give you what you're looking for in those circumstances.

 

You are not "taking your mom's side" in not automatically supporting a desire for divorce; you are taking the side of the marriage. Taking your mom's side would be saying she had nothing to change, that everything was his fault. Taking the side of the marriage is taking the side of the family as a whole. Social pressure to hang in there is unhealthy when there is abuse, serial infidelity, etc, but when it's just become "dull", social pressure to preserve the marriage serves a purpose. We all know of people ready to call it quits who hung in there because of some pressure from here or there, and then were so thankful that they did.

 

Thank you for this. I fear that he will regret it as well. At this point my mom is saying that she will continue to love him and be committed to their marriage even if he moves out (which he hasn't done yet - 4 months ago he told her he wanted a separation but they are still in the same house AND the same bed). She intends to hang in there as long as there is hope, whether it be months or years. I admire that.

 

I do want to ask him direct questions about how he pictures his future. Both in regards to the family and his future with other women.

 

I absolutely think he is minimizing the impact that this will have on the family. If he were being honest about the impact and still saying that he wanted to leave I think I would be more prepared to accept it. At this point though I don't think he is honestly facing the impact this will have.

 

I appreciate you pointing out that I am taking the side of "marriage" rather than the side of my mom. I'll have to remember that explanation for tonight's conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this is right but it feels so inadequate. That really won't answer their questions or do much for the way they're feeling. I hate this for my kids; they love their grandparents so much.

 

You can't really answer the questions or stop their feelings. They will have feelings, and the only healthy way is through them. As far as questions, the details of the divorce, the whys, the questions about marriage in general are not answer-able by you. It's not the time to get lecture-y, complicated, biblical, or theory-centered.

 

Everyone will be hurting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can't really answer the questions or stop their feelings. They will have feelings, and the only healthy way is through them. As far as questions, the details of the divorce, the whys, the questions about marriage in general are not answer-able by you. It's not the time to get lecture-y, complicated, biblical, or theory-centered.

 

Everyone will be hurting.

 

I agree that the questions are not answerable. That's part of why I'm struggling - my questions are not all answerable, without crossing the boundaries of being told things about their marriage that are not my business. This will be even more so for the kids. It sucks though to feel like you don't understand and can't be given an explanation.

 

I don't want to get biblical but I expect those questions from my oldest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ugh. I hate that everyone is suspicious of there being another woman - because I am too but I really don't want that to be the case. Is is possible that the other woman is an idea right now as opposed to an actual person and relationship?

 

I do think depression is playing a part here.

Your gut is always correct. I don't know if it would make any difference but if I could do it all again, I'd be much more direct and lay it all out on the table and encourage my Mom to do so. I'd get biblical. I'd get statistical. I'd encourage her to fight. We all tiptoed around hoping that if we ignored what we all knew, it would go away. That didn't work. He was dead within 5 years of leaving, by the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplain

No advice, but I do agree with this:

 

This is your family of origin that is falling apart right now. In my opinion, it is your business, whether your parents like it or not.

 

Assuming abuse is not the problem, I'd encourage both to work on repairing their relationship. Your words may be the nudge your dad needs.

 

 

Abuse is not the problem. The problem is that they don't have things in common and didn't nurture their relationship for all the years that they were busy with work and children. I don't think my dad likes her anymore.

 

I want to encourage him to try and I hope that my words have some impact.

 

That fact that it is her parents doesn't change healthy boundaries.

 

He is a grown man. He's been married a long time. He knows that he "should" work on it. It's 2012; he knows the options of working on it.

 

Everyone leaving/ending a marriage knows this. I would not be quick to assume that the surface "grown apart" sufficiently describes his decision to end the marriage. You can be hurt, scared, and furious but give him the dignity of thought that he doesn't need to be reminded of basics he likely considered years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That fact that it is her parents doesn't change healthy boundaries.

 

He is a grown man. He's been married a long time. He knows that he "should" work on it. It's 2012; he knows the options of working on it.

 

Everyone leaving/ending a marriage knows this. I would not be quick to assume that the surface "grown apart" sufficiently describes his decision to end the marriage. You can be hurt, scared, and furious but give him the dignity of thought that he doesn't need to be reminded of basics he likely considered years ago.

That's all true.

 

However, what he doesn't know is how it is going to affect everyone from here on out. There is a sort of deception that clouds thinking when there is another person involved (which I hope there isn't, but statistically, likely is) I'd have no qualms about laying that out in stark detail after my own experiences (where we didn't).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's all true.

 

However, what he doesn't know is how it is going to affect everyone from here on out. There is a sort of deception that clouds thinking when there is another person involved (which I hope there isn't, but statistically, likely is) I'd have no qualms about laying that out in stark detail after my own experiences (where we didn't).

 

Oh, I agree that it is very likely to be an outside love interest. I could write a book on how that will play out. A person leaving a marriage to due an affair operates under an addiction-like pattern and unreality.

 

I think engaging over it is useless, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ugh. I hate that everyone is suspicious of there being another woman - because I am too but I really don't want that to be the case. Is is possible that the other woman is an idea right now as opposed to an actual person and relationship?

 

I do think depression is playing a part here.

 

It is absolutely possible that there is no one else involved. I think many of us mentioned the idea because we wanted to be sure you were prepared for the worst, but I'm sure many men get divorced without another woman waiting in the wings.

 

Now that you mentioned his depression about his mom, that actually sort of supports the "no one else involved" theory. He may have simply reached a breaking point in the relationship with your mom, and there may not be another woman in the picture.

 

If you don't mind me asking this, how old is your father?

 

Also, about your mom -- how long has it been since she held a job outside the home? In long term marriages where the wife hasn't worked for many years, the husband is often held responsible for supporting her -- and if she has a good attorney, your mom could end up being able to continue living in your parents' house and your dad could have to pay for her living expenses. The laws vary from state to state, but be sure to investigate your mom's rights to be sure she is protected.

 

This could be a very expensive divorce for your father, as long as your mother is insistent that she be properly provided for.

 

I'm not taking anyone's side here, and I know that neither your mom nor your dad are 100% at fault here, but if your father wants to change the status quo and get the divorce, I don't think your mom should have to run out and get a job to start supporting herself, at least not for quite some time. (And again, the older she is, the less likely it is that a judge would require her to do that.)

 

Financially, divorce is a disaster for many couples, even those who have quite a lot of money and significant assets, because both partners are used to living a certain way, and everything changes when they split up and discover that half the money doesn't pay for all of the lifestyle to which they're accustomed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for checking in :grouphug: That really meant a lot to me.

 

I am nervous. I haven't been able to do anything today - I'm still in jammies, the kids have been listening to an audiobook and colouring as "school" and then playing outside. I can't think about anything else. I'm sure I'll be back to cry on your shoulders after the conversation tonight.

 

You're welcome! :001_smile: I have been worried about you.

 

Don't try to do anything important today. This is a huge shock for you, and you're nervous about meeting with your dad. Let yourself be upset; you deserve to feel angry and scared and worried.

 

I hope it goes well with your father tonight. He is probably as nervous as you are right now. He's probably afraid that he will lose his daughter as well as his wife. He's wondering if you will tell him you hate him for leaving your mom and that you'll never speak to him again. He's wondering how much he should tell you about what's going on inside his head.

 

The fact that he wants to meet with you and talk is a very good thing. He's not shutting you out, so don't shut him out, either.

 

But ask the questions you need to ask. (Make a little cheat sheet and hide it in the bathroom to refer back to, if you're afraid you'll forget something.) Come right out and ask if there's someone else, if that's something that's worrying you -- but be sure to try not to sound accusing about it, or he won't confide in you. I don't see anything wrong with asking him for his reasons for wanting the divorce, and since an affair is often a primary reason for it, I don't think he will be overly surprised at the question.

 

Above all, if he starts telling you the things that he doesn't like about your mom, don't defend her. He feels what he feels, and you can't change that, so the only thing that can happen if you defend your mom is that your father will think you're taking sides. Please remember that although it appears that your mom is the injured party here, her relationship with your father may have been far different than her relationship with you, and your father's complaints and reasons may be entirely valid.

 

Who knows, by the end of the conversation, you may start to understand what your father has been going through. You may never truly support the idea of your parents being divorced, but if you're open-minded and give your dad a chance to explain himself without being judgmental toward him, you might begin to comprehend why he needs this major change in his life.

 

I really wish this wasn't happening to you, though. I'll be sure to pray for you and your family.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the questions are not answerable. That's part of why I'm struggling - my questions are not all answerable, without crossing the boundaries of being told things about their marriage that are not my business. This will be even more so for the kids. It sucks though to feel like you don't understand and can't be given an explanation.

 

I don't want to get biblical but I expect those questions from my oldest.

 

For right now, don't worry about how the kids will react. They will adapt to the new situation far more readily than you will, and as long as they know that both of their grandparents still love them, they will be OK. Kids are often better than adults about the Big Stuff. Not everything is an episode of Dr Phil when you're a kid. If your mom and dad are OK, you're OK.

 

I think the biggest mistake you can make is to make a huge deal out of it with the kids. If you're matter-of-fact about how Grandma and Grandpa aren't going to be living together anymore (and don't provide a lot of additional details,) they'll be fine. If they hear you and your dh having long, drawn-out conversations filled with tears and wailing, they're going to be upset right along with you.

 

Obviously, your oldest child may be more aware of what's happening, but as long as you reassure her that you and your dh aren't getting divorced, and that she'll still be seeing both of her grandparents like she always did, I don't think this has to be a crisis situation for her.

 

The kids will deal with it if they see you dealing with it. If they see you falling apart every ten minutes, they will assume something horrible is happening and they will worry, too. If you're calm, positive, and matter-of-fact, while still supporting their emotions and being there to talk to them about it when they need to vent or ask questions, they'll be OK. (In fact, you may find yourself getting annoyed with them because they're handling it so well, and you'll wonder why they're not as upset as you are. ;))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That fact that it is her parents doesn't change healthy boundaries.

 

He is a grown man. He's been married a long time. He knows that he "should" work on it. It's 2012; he knows the options of working on it.

 

Everyone leaving/ending a marriage knows this. I would not be quick to assume that the surface "grown apart" sufficiently describes his decision to end the marriage. You can be hurt, scared, and furious but give him the dignity of thought that he doesn't need to be reminded of basics he likely considered years ago.

The OP has stated that the explanation she's been given is that they've grown apart. She may wonder if there are other issues involved, and she certainly can raise that question. You can disagree with me if you like, but I don't think asking the question violates healthy boundaries.

 

I personally believe in "for better or for worse," assuming the marriage is not physically or emotionally unhealthy beyond repair. If the worst it gets is that two people have "grown apart," in my opinion that's not enough. That's not the point at which you bail. That's when it is time to go focus on your relationship and make a good faith effort to reconnect and repair.

 

Maybe they've already tried. Maybe they haven't. We can't know. Again, feel free to disagree, but I don't think healthy boundaries mean that a daughter is not allowed to bring up the promises her parents made to each other.

 

Marriage isn't always, or even most of the time, a bed of roses.

Believe it or not, sometimes people DO need a reminder of that fact.

Yes, even in 2012.

Edited by jplain
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I agree that it is very likely to be an outside love interest. I could write a book on how that will play out. A person leaving a marriage to due an affair operates under an addiction-like pattern and unreality.

 

I think engaging over it is useless, though.

Possibly. But I have learned with age (over 50 now) that calling someone on something flat out and addressing an issue head on seems to be more effective than not talking about it or talking around it.

 

No guarantees, of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:grouphug:I have no advice, and I haven't read the other responses, but I wanted to say that I am so sorry and I can only imagine how difficult this is for you.

 

My dad passed away 20 years ago --

 

about 10 years ago, my mom began going to the movies and out to dinner with a very nice gentleman (he has since died). They had a nice friendship but I have to tell you, it was like my Freudian nightmare seeing my mom in the company of someone else.

 

I don't know what you should say to your dad, maybe just listen. As one of the boardies who is 'up there in years' (I'm 57), I would say to just listen.:grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Melissa,

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this :grouphug:. I haven't read the entire thread, but there is one possibility that I have not yet seen someone address. You mentioned how out of character this seems for your father, and also that he seems to be having a hard time since his mother passed away. Could he possibly be suffering from clinical depression? I ask because I have seen a scenario where a person who would normally abhor the idea of divorce is in the midst of a major depressive episode and comes to think that divorce is the only way out of their misery. And I have seen the same situation resolve when said person received effective treatment for depression. Obviously I can't say this is what is happening with your dad--but I can't say it isn't either. A person suffering from depression often feels like everything in their world is wrong, and they need to just get out of the situation. If your dad is showing any other signs of depression--lack of interest in regular activity, change in appetite, unusual irritability, etc. I would seriously consider the possibility.

 

Of course, even if this is the case there may be little you are anyone else can do--especially for someone of that generation the idea of seeking help for a mental illness can be very difficult to swallow. It might however change the way family members view the whole situation.

 

I will be praying for you and your dad this evening.

--Sarah

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, he already seems to have made his mind up which makes tonight feel somewhat pointless. And yet, I feel compelled to try.

I understand the difficulty, feeling like you need to get it right so he;'ll understand and worried it won't change anything or that he won't even care. That's how I felt anyway. I'm so sorry. It's a horrible thing to have happen. I just felt like shaking my father and yelling at him, "YOU'RE SO STUPID, YOU CAN BE HAPPY. JUST BE NICE!!" but I knew it was no use. Good luck again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My parents never separated. My father died when I was 13 and my mother when I was 23. They actually were married for a shorter time then my husband and I. But I am trying to think how I would feel- very unhappy, I think. Whether I would cast blame would depend on what happens to the innocent party (the one who doesn't want the divorce). If your mother ends up being well supported and your dad is not with another woman, I would be trying to keep contact with both. On the other hand, I couldn't be so magnanimous if either my dad was an adulterer or if his leaving left my mother in poverty. Then I would have to take sides and wouldn't be spending much time with my father.

Now what should you say= I would ask the questions others have recommended. I would recommend your mother get a strong attorney who will get her the most he can. Another question I would ask is has he treated his depression? If not, I would strongly suggest to him to first get depression treatment and then see how things are. Depression skews thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally believe in "for better or for worse," assuming the marriage is not physically or emotionally unhealthy beyond repair. If the worst it gets is that two people have "grown apart," in my opinion that's not enough. That's not the point at which you bail. That's when it is time to go focus on your relationship and make a good faith effort to reconnect and repair.

 

Maybe they've already tried. Maybe they haven't. We can't know. Again, feel free to disagree, but I don't think healthy boundaries mean that a daughter is not allowed to bring up the promises her parents made to each other.

 

Marriage isn't always, or even most of the time, a bed of roses.

Believe it or not, sometimes people DO need a reminder of that fact.

Yes, even in 2012.

 

I personally believed "divorce was not an option." It nearly killed everything good in life; but that's not my point. My point is that other people do not have a place in evaluating the legitimacy of divorce.

 

Trust me, from my own experience, and that of those I've observed. Not one of us didn't know that marriage can be hard, and it's worth trying or peservering. In *this* case, we are talking about grandparent aged people, with adult children; not a young couple with unrealistic, fairy tale expectations. Dad knows his promises.

 

I admit to reacting through my own filter. "Well meaning" feedback such as yours hurt; not helped me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally believed "divorce was not an option." It nearly killed everything good in life; but that's not my point. My point is that other people do not have a place in evaluating the legitimacy of divorce.

 

"Well meaning" feedback such as yours hurt; not helped me.

 

Totally agree with everything I've quoted from Joanne.

 

And, the part in red, I would have to include that my daughters spirit was nearly killed, and one of them is still battling the denoms of me having people bang me over the head with the 'divorce is not an option' that I foolishly and mistakenly believed for too long. My priest, finally, sat me down and told me it was not only an option, it was a necessity.

 

I am not saying that my statement has anything to do with the OP - it doesn't - but there is alot more 'grey' out there than some folks want to admit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree with everything I've quoted from Joanne.

 

And, the part in red, I would have to include that my daughters spirit was nearly killed, and one of them is still battling the denoms of me having people bang me over the head with the 'divorce is not an option' that I foolishly and mistakenly believed for too long. My priest, finally, sat me down and told me it was not only an option, it was a necessity.

 

I am not saying that my statement has anything to do with the OP - it doesn't - but there is alot more 'grey' out there than some folks want to admit.

There is. But sometimes, there is just selfishness and lack of commitment. BTDT. What the OP needs to hear is what the real story is from her father. Has there been previously undisclosed abuse, infidelity, or soul-sucking pain? This meeting is where it would be helpful if that kind of disclosure needs to come out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We teach our children that our words and actions affect other people. We teach them that it is important to value and respect other people.

 

The OP's dad stated that he wants things to continue to be normal (referencing family get-togethers). That indicates that he is currently looking at things in an unrealistic way. If he thinks the family can just carry on without a major emotional fall-out, I think it is perfectly reasonable for someone to tell him otherwise. His actions will affect his loved ones. Because he loves them, he wants to believe the only outcome of this action will be eventual happiness for all. The OP said that if her husband was expressing the same reasons for divorcing her, her father would have a problem with it.

 

Perhaps politely and calmly asking questions such as, "How should we explain this to the children?" Or, "I don't understand your actions because you taught me to live differently." might be helpful in opening his eyes. He is an adult and he must make his own decisions. You may not have any sway over those decisions, and you will continue to love him regardless. I agree that noone can know the inside of the marriage and in the end, you don't want to know the gritty details if they go beyond, "We've grown apart." That statement is the one I would focus upon. That and the effect the action will have on others. Strive to speak in love.

 

Staying in good times and in bad can mean many different things and there has been no indication of abuse from the OP's perspective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally believed "divorce was not an option." It nearly killed everything good in life....

Yet there's nothing in the OP that suggests anything so dramatic is going on with her parents. Nor did I ever say that divorce is never the right choice. Sometimes it is by far the best choice.

 

My point is that other people do not have a place in evaluating the legitimacy of divorce.
I believe that people have a right and even a responsibility to ask loved ones to carefully examine and even re-examine decisions of great import.

 

I admit to reacting through my own filter. "Well meaning" feedback such as yours hurt; not helped me.
I'm glad you recognize your bias. While such feedback harmed you, I can only assume that anyone who gave such advice to you didn't have your best interests at heart and/or didn't know your marriage very well.

 

Again, none of us can know for sure, but I don't hear anything resembling your previous marriage in the OP's description of her parents' situation.

Edited by jplain
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is. But sometimes, there is just selfishness and lack of commitment. BTDT. What the OP needs to hear is what the real story is from her father. Has there been previously undisclosed abuse, infidelity, or soul-sucking pain? This meeting is where it would be helpful if that kind of disclosure needs to come out.

 

 

 

hmmmmmm, good points, but as a parent, I don't think I'd want to share those kinds of details with my children -- even adult children. To this day, there are things that I will not ever share with my adult daughters. And if those kinds of things aren't shared, the words that are left, unfortunately, may sound selfish.

 

All of that aside, though, I meet so many women heartbroken, in their 50s and 60s, whose husbands have decided to look elsewhere for companionship. I think that, sadly, the spouse who decides to look elsewhere has mistaken 'pleasure' for 'happiness.'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does affect my opinion of him, and that's a big part of where I'm struggling. I already feel like I've lost some respect for him and I've always held him is such high esteem. I would like to express that in as kind a way as I can manage.

 

I understand this. It's tough to see how his behavior hurts your mom (and yourself and potentially your children) and then not feel a traumatized or alienated by his choices.

 

My parents divorced while I was in high school, and in a pretty different scenario (my mother had a midlife crisis and left the family). For many years my dad was my hero for simply being there. Then he started dating a woman who is my interpersonal nightmare - jealous, manipulative, driving. As an adult, I had to come to grips with the idea that my dad is capable of happily making choices that put me out, that potentially hurt me, and which he blithely expects me to put up with.

 

So I decided to take some polite steps back here and there. For a while I would have a nice superficial conversation on the phone with him, and then cry inconsolably in private about how I really felt. Occasionally, something bothers me enough that I tell him that I do not want to have a part of that or discuss it. And he is very good about listening to and respecting those boundaries. So that's my safety valve. It's become a dance of what I must address to keep the relationship going, and what many things I must stop participating in in my dad's life to keep my own sense of dignity and sanity.

 

It hurt a lot to realize that my dad was fine with this! Just like my mom didn't mind leaving me if it meant she could go live where she wanted alone, my dad doesn't seem to mind dating someone who's nasty to me if it means he's in a committed relationship. It's a disappointment and that doesn't do much to keep up the bond.

 

If you have the strength to be honest with your father from the outset, I think that's healthy. It's not the same as telling him what to do with his life and his choices. I wish I could tell my parents how I really feel, but instead I choose to limit my relationship with them. It's tough and confusing, and you really have my sympathy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand this. It's tough to see how his behavior hurts your mom (and yourself and potentially your children) and then not feel a traumatized or alienated by his choices.

 

My parents divorced while I was in high school, and in a pretty different scenario (my mother had a midlife crisis and left the family). For many years my dad was my hero for simply being there. Then he started dating a woman who is my interpersonal nightmare - jealous, manipulative, driving. As an adult, I had to come to grips with the idea that my dad is capable of happily making choices that put me out, that potentially hurt me, and which he blithely expects me to put up with.

 

So I decided to take some polite steps back here and there. For a while I would have a nice superficial conversation on the phone with him, and then cry inconsolably in private about how I really felt. Occasionally, something bothers me enough that I tell him that I do not want to have a part of that or discuss it. And he is very good about listening to and respecting those boundaries. So that's my safety valve. It's become a dance of what I must address to keep the relationship going, and what many things I must stop participating in in my dad's life to keep my own sense of dignity and sanity.

 

It hurt a lot to realize that my dad was fine with this! Just like my mom didn't mind leaving me if it meant she could go live where she wanted alone, my dad doesn't seem to mind dating someone who's nasty to me if it means he's in a committed relationship. It's a disappointment and that doesn't do much to keep up the bond.

 

If you have the strength to be honest with your father from the outset, I think that's healthy. It's not the same as telling him what to do with his life and his choices. I wish I could tell my parents how I really feel, but instead I choose to limit my relationship with them. It's tough and confusing, and you really have my sympathy.

 

Wow -- I admire how you articulated that. You shared much wisdom.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i'm wondering what your dh thinks you might do/say that would help you and/or help your dad.

 

some things you might consider:

you might ask your dad at the beginning what he is hoping the outcome of your time together will be? you could ask if he's there to tell you what he's already decided or to talk it through with you to help him see all sides of it or somewhere in the middle? maybe he's there to try to help you come to terms with what he's already decided?

 

sometimes, clear statements of continued relationship helps. ie. i'm your daughter and i love you. i am not going to cut you out of my life.

 

sometimes, clear "i" statements (which don't feel as accusing as "you" statments) help. eg. "i'm really devastated that this is what you are considering. and i really don't quite know what to do or what to say. i want to love and support you, but this is a decision i'm not feeling like i want to support."

 

and then it may help to decide how you want it to finish up tonight and what you will say..... it may sound a lot like the beginning. (eg. i love you and i'm so sad that you are going thru this right now. i'm pretty sad we're all going thru this right now. there will be a lot of grieving to go thru. thank you for coming to talk to me. i'm going to do my best to stay in relationship with both of you. would you like to meet me for coffee friday night? (continued relationship). ok.

 

and it may help you before tonight to sit down at the computer and journal to yourself.

 

1. what happened. (dad called and asked to talk to me tonight about him divorcing mom). try to say it in one sentence without any emotion attached to it. just a bald statement of what happened.

 

2. how you feel about it. (angry, sad, confused, etc, etc) keep going until you have everything written down that you can come up with.

 

3. why you think it happened. really why. if any emotions come up during this question, it means you're not quite done with question 2 yet. it helps get down thru the layers of emotion. (i think it happened because dad's mom died and he's realizing he's next and that he isn't happy being married to mom. then add in the things that are possible, like, maybe he met someone else, maybe he's clinically depressed, maybe....) remember no one is going to see this but you....

 

4. what you need.

in a clear statement. this is hard, but just trying to answer it helps a lot. (eg. i need..... for this not to be happening. but it is. i need..... for mom and dad to be happy. then comes the soul searching if you need them to be happy together, or if you just want them to be happy however that plays out. you may end up back at question 2 to add "confused" to the list of emotions. notice that all of these are things you need someone else to be doing. now try to come up with things thru your eyes. eg. i need to be able to see my mom and my dad. i need to be able to love them. i need my children to have a good healthy relationship with my mom and my dad. it may be that you also feel as if you need to understand, need your dad to justify his actions, etc, etc. if you can leave it at this point and then come back, read it thru, and decide which of these needs are healthy and real and possible.... if in question 3 you answered that you think it is happening because he is clinically depressed, you might decide you need to ask him if he would consider going to see a counselor not about the marriage but about his mom's death before making any final decisions.....

 

5. what you're going to do next....

this is where the previous questions may help you decide whether you're going to ask certain questions or make certain statements or not.... (eg. if in number 4 you come to realize that nothing he could say would justify it, then there is not so much point in asking for justification. if you need for your family to be able to see them both at holidays, then you can ask him how he pictures holidays playing out, and then offer other scenarios..... and if you need to know that you want continued contact, then you can brainstorm ways you can nourish each parent during this time, and start doing that.... (maybe starting a phone call at the same time each week, or skyping or having friday tea with mom or ???). in the end, the only folks we can change are ourselves.

 

doing this helps center people a lot, and makes it less likely for you to be blindsided repeatedly by some emotions that you didn't know were lurking there.....

 

:grouphug:

ann

Edited by elfgivas@yahoo.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally believed "divorce was not an option." It nearly killed everything good in life; but that's not my point. My point is that other people do not have a place in evaluating the legitimacy of divorce.

 

Trust me, from my own experience, and that of those I've observed. Not one of us didn't know that marriage can be hard, and it's worth trying or peservering. In *this* case, we are talking about grandparent aged people, with adult children; not a young couple with unrealistic, fairy tale expectations. Dad knows his promises.

 

I admit to reacting through my own filter. "Well meaning" feedback such as yours hurt; not helped me.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It hurt a lot to realize that my dad was fine with this! Just like my mom didn't mind leaving me if it meant she could go live where she wanted alone, my dad doesn't seem to mind dating someone who's nasty to me if it means he's in a committed relationship. It's a disappointment and that doesn't do much to keep up the bond.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry, Catherine. I wish things were different between you and your parents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just thought about food.

 

something else that might help is for you to have something to eat and drink together.... cookies and tea or ??? tonight. something that is comforting to you and to him. that also has an unspoken assurance of love and care, that what is happening is family getting together, not a question and answer meeting.

 

eating together helps calm us and bring us into communion together.

 

:grouphug:

ann

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hmmmmmm, good points, but as a parent, I don't think I'd want to share those kinds of details with my children -- even adult children. To this day, there are things that I will not ever share with my adult daughters. And if those kinds of things aren't shared, the words that are left, unfortunately, may sound selfish.

 

All of that aside, though, I meet so many women heartbroken, in their 50s and 60s, whose husbands have decided to look elsewhere for companionship. I think that, sadly, the spouse who decides to look elsewhere has mistaken 'pleasure' for 'happiness.'

 

 

The details need not be shared. But saying something like, "There have been things in the marriage/done by your mother/other that have made it impossible to continue in this marriage," without going into detail, can, and in my opinion, should, be shared. Even something like, "I need out. I can't give details, and I don't do this lightly, and am aware of the impact it will have, but I cannot function anymore within this marriage."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For a while I would have a nice superficial conversation on the phone with him, and then cry inconsolably in private about how I really felt. Occasionally, something bothers me enough that I tell him that I do not want to have a part of that or discuss it. And he is very good about listening to and respecting those boundaries.

It hurt a lot to realize that my dad was fine with this! Just like my mom didn't mind leaving me if it meant she could go live where she wanted alone, my dad doesn't seem to mind dating someone who's nasty to me if it means he's in a committed relationship. It's a disappointment and that doesn't do much to keep up the bond.

 

I wish I could tell my parents how I really feel, but instead I choose to limit my relationship with them. It's tough and confusing, and you really have my sympathy.

 

Catherine --:grouphug: I had to read your post over many times b4 I was able to cull from it what hit me like a ton of bricks.

 

My parents were somewhat happily married till my dad died 20 years ago.

 

My relationship with my mom was ALWAYS superficial - still is to this day. We never needed to discuss anything b/c everything had to be done her way. There was no need to be close - it was not about closeness, it was about doing things her way...b/c her way was what worked best for her.

 

THAT finally jumped out at me -- I was not to be a nuisance, cause embarassment, make work for her, be an inconvenience -- I was kept at arm's length. It explains so much to me now.

 

I mean it -- thank you.:grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...