roanna Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This year was kind of experimental for us, so I've been just trying things out but I wanted to be more intentional next year. My son is 5 1/2 and working above at everything but math. He can memorize vast amounts of info but not math facts so I am NOT looking for something advanced but I just wanted to know is there a reason not to use MUS? I like that it has a video, it's clean in presentation (he gets distracted by pictures) and its more tactile. I should say that I did attempt Miquon with him and we did up to around page 20 of orange. He did like the c-rods but I am not sure why it didnt really feel like it was working...maybe he's just not ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) This year was kind of experimental for us, so I've been just trying things out but I wanted to be more intentional next year. My son is 5 1/2 and working above at everything but math. He can memorize vast amounts of info but not math facts so I am NOT looking for something advanced but I just wanted to know is there a reason not to use MUS? I like that it has a video, it's clean in presentation (he gets distracted by pictures) and its more tactile. I should say that I did attempt Miquon with him and we did up to around page 20 of orange. He did like the c-rods but I am not sure why it didnt really feel like it was working...maybe he's just not ready? We have three in MUS now and they are all different in their natural skills and ways they learn best. But all seem to be doing pretty well with MUS. The one who is having the hardest time is our middle dd7. She is simply at a stage where she doesn't feel like doing any math period which includes memorization. So I have been adding in things to make it fun also such as DreamBox. The two younger ones really like that. The only reason I could see choosing something else would be if you are looking for a more rigorous program. But many suppliment MUS with more difficult word problems such as those from Singapore (CWP). That is something I just ordered for my oldest ds10 to go along with Zeta. One last thing to be aware of is that MUS does things out of sequence from more traditional programs. So if you ever want to switch mid stream it could be more difficult finding the right level, like right in the middle of 2nd or 3rd grade. Though others have done it for various reasons. No program fits every family bottom line. You'll have to try it and see how it goes. If you buy it used selling it will be close to break even if you don't like it for whatever reason. Edited January 13, 2012 by dereksurfs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I use mus and it works well for us. My dd is very accelerated in everything including math....but she hates it. MUS makes it tolerable for her. My impression is that when we get past the learning of basic arithmetic she is going to like it more but right now it's pretty painful. I love mus because of the video, because it's easy to accelerate and because it teaches the concepts in a way that makes sure children learn to understand why they are doing a particular problem not just how. The manipulatives are also great. The program is also great for remediation. Basically, I think it works well for range of learning styles and mathematic ability. You might find that once you switch to MUS your son starts moving a little more quickly. We spent a year on Horizon math and dd was still adding on her fingers and struggling to memorize her math facts. Between the video and the manipulatives she pretty much had them down a few weeks after starting alpha. Don't be surprised if you end up moving through more than one level per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanna Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks both of you, very helpful! I still find it so interesting how much stuff he can memorize but still after months cannot remember what 2+3 is. I am tempted to bundle up all my Miquon stuff and sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I know for us it is one hundred percent a desire issue. My daughter can remember everything she wants to but she just doesn't like math. She couldn't help but learn the facts with mus because she got caught up playing with the manipulatives. She kept coming do me saying she found another way to make 10. Alpha and beta went very smoothly untll we got to multi digit subtraction. The she decided she didn't want to do it anymore so we had a few character building months. We breezed through the beginning of Gamma...then she decidedp multi-digit multiplication just took too long. More character building time. :D We did the first 20 lessons in Delta in about three weeks (simple division). Now we're doing long division and back to major character building. If I don't sit there with her she stares off in to space day dreaming and acts as she has no idea what to do. Just today I asked her if it was to hard and she said no I just don't like it. Then she proceeded to work 93,871 divided by 357 by herself while I watched her. As I'm sure you know sometimes gifted kids don't like to do things that take work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanna Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 So since you're being so helpful , let me ask... My son is still young and I am not a pushy parent so I have thought maybe I should just wait on math until he is 6 or later when he might show he is more mentally capable of putting it together. K math is definitely boring to him and is way beyond those types but I'm just confused on what to do. Everything else he is just soaking up and enjoys. He does randomly say , you know mom that 3+3 is 6? And I say yes how did you know? He looks at artwork on walls and counts patterns or objects in restaurants but if he sees numbers asking him the same problem 80% of the time he can't answer. So should I "push" forward with math and attempt at a real program or wait ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can share some thoughts and what we've decided to do for today but I don't honk I have all the answers. I'm torn between justbletbher be a kid and pushing her to do her best. I probably fluctuate between both in practice. Dh and I actually had a discussion about this very thing today. I was leaning towards slowing down or even stopping the long division because I was getting tired and frustrated with how long it takes her to do problems. After we talked we decided that we need to keep going. The thing is she can do it...she just doesn't want to. Because EVERYTHING else comes so easy for her (she can read anything, she remembers everything she reads, knows every answer in class at church, never needs help in any other subject, easily picks up her Latin & Greek lessons, etc) math is the only area she has to work in. We feel that letting her off the hook might lead to a lifelong habit of quitting when things get tough. When we got to multi-digit multiplication for the first time we had a horrible first day. We watched the video but she said she just didn't get it. It was too hard, etc. There were tears, I felt like I was pushing her too hard...I basically did every problem for her because she needed "help". I went to dh and told him we needed to slow down and that I was pushing her too hard. The next day right when we started math a friend came to then office with her son. Dd wanted to play and I told her she could when she finished math. She then proceeded to do the same length worksheet we had the day before....in 10 minutes...in her head without writing the steps down and got every problem right. So...as long as I think she can do it but doesn't want to I feel we have to keep working. Because I'm not as mean and pushy as this post makes me sound I have done some things to make math a little more pleasant for her. We sat down and discussed a reward system. Basically if she does her best I won't make her do so many worksheets every week and she can spend half her math time reading math books like Life of Fred instead. This resulted in us drastically accelerating Delta and we'll probably do the same with Epsilon. If she demonstrates mastery after a few problems I let her test and we move on to the next chapter. I tried to find a previous thread where this was discussed but sisn't have any luck. Also, math bingo on the iPad is great for working on facts. She does this and the Singapore math app for fun. Because it's on the iPad it is apparently not real math in her mind. Off topic but I see you have an iPad app listed in your curriculum. What is it called and what subject is it? I'm trying to move more subjects to the iPad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Also...then alpha level is pretty gentle. I doubt you'll get to much that feels too difficult for your son. It probably won't seem like work for him until you get to the last 10 lessons or so in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanna Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I am not sure which ones you'd be interested in. Right now most of the apps he's outgrowing. He loves geography so he plays with the Montessori-like geography apps. My favorite I actually use is the Word Wizard app. The tiles are set up just like AAS so I just imput his words for the day into it and hand it to him. I usually put in 3 tests at a time. I also use the ESV Bible for Bible time, i love that it leaves off right where you left it. The Smithsonian has had a few interesting things about volcanoes and earthquakes on iTunes. Rocket Math is good too but he gets carried away trying to set off his rocket instead of doing math. I realized I am really turning my school more over to the iPad today( what we bought it for) when at breakfast I was holding up the iPad reading Berenstein Bears to my kids showing them the pictures. It was a weird moment. So, I forgot to respond to your help...he does avoid things he's not good at or can't do perfectly, even brushing his teeth for fear the toothpaste may get on him. So I guess we may just try chugging away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) My daughter is in a really honest phase where she confesses everything and shentoldnme Rocket Math wasn't good for practicing math because the rocket is too tempting to play with.:lol: I guess that's a universal experience! Apparently math bingo requires you to do math problems to earn bingo bugs to sling at some coins or something...she says it's better for practicing math. Edited January 13, 2012 by acurtis75@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Math-U-See, which we have loved and currently use, becomes just horrid for mental math. Learning multi-digit addition ruined Button for mental multi-digit, and they don't ever teach that skill. It is our main math program because it is systematic, thorough, clean in presentation, and I can easily (more or less) teach around the difficult bits. I just wish I'd had Button maintain his mental math skills. We are adding MEP math to the mix. We are so so happy to have found it. Working up to plenty of mental math, it seems. and it's free. RE online programs: I have found no online drill without negative effects. TimezAttack caused him to lie in order to get more computer time (not for that game, just generally ... he was getting addicted). Using it for drilling math facts was sort of like bribing him with crack. Short-sighted, for him at least ;). Xtra Math: too boring; Reflex: too frustrating, and also leaves him cranky, but he loves it so we're trying it for longer. hope info is good, am too tired here to be more erudite. ETA: Button is showing eye strain after online math drills, so we're dropping the computer time. Edited January 16, 2012 by serendipitous journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This year was kind of experimental for us, so I've been just trying things out but I wanted to be more intentional next year. My son is 5 1/2 and working above at everything but math. He can memorize vast amounts of info but not math facts so I am NOT looking for something advanced but I just wanted to know is there a reason not to use MUS? I like that it has a video, it's clean in presentation (he gets distracted by pictures) and its more tactile. I should say that I did attempt Miquon with him and we did up to around page 20 of orange. He did like the c-rods but I am not sure why it didnt really feel like it was working...maybe he's just not ready? My middle one did MUS from Alpha through Zeta minus Delta (because she'd already done that topic) along with Singapore Math. What finally solidified the linguistic aspects of math (she tended to do it in her head) as well as certain parts of fractions was Russian Math which she did after SM 6. Miquon didn't work for my ds, either. However, he did use C Rods with SM so he wouldn't count on his fingers. He did some MUS as well, but in the end it wasn't the best fit for him. I do love some things about MUS or dd wouldn't have done so much of it, but sometimes it was confusing to my dc, too. MEP is a great program, and combining that with MUS could also be very good. We discovered it after SM, and ds loves it, but I have no desire to print out all the sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanna Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Thank you responding. I guess one of my main questions now is to keep going with math or wait until he is older, like 6..or 6.5 A part of me after spending time thinking about it is what some people say, just keep with the same program and keep going. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohannaM Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I've been pondering some of the same things with my daughter (stay the course or pause for a while)! Can you try changing course, maybe skip to the chapter on time or money with the curriculum you already have? This might help you get a feel for if he isn't ready or is just getting bored! I've also been considering using some Montessori materials like the number cards and play around with place value a little. I made some number cards printing on cardstock and bead bars stringing plastic beads on pipe-cleaners, so this doesn't have to be a pricy alternative! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanna Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I am tending to CM ideas and have been preparing by reading her works. Which she recommends not using formal math for a bit. My son does CM methods/interests in his learning anyhow, so it's a good fit for us. Someone recommending to me Kitchen Table Math so I was thinking about stopping and doing some of that for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I am tending to CM ideas and have been preparing by reading her works. Which she recommends not using formal math for a bit. My son does CM methods/interests in his learning anyhow, so it's a good fit for us. Someone recommending to me Kitchen Table Math so I was thinking about stopping and doing some of that for a bit. Though Charlotte Mason has helped our education enormously in many ways, CM is not a reliable source for a rigorous math education. IMHO. :leaving: The goal with math in the early years should be the same as the goal with language: to develop fluency and joy. If the child is good with concepts but not so much with the facts, PLEASE look at the MEP materials. They are very clean: Button also prefers clean pages. Also there are only 5 problems per lesson which is CM-ish; you could always do only a part of a lesson at a time. If printing out so many sheets isn't feasible, you can sketch the problems yourself on paper, white board or chalk board. Also livingmath.net, esp. consonant with CM methods, and the Family Math Book. I am not dissing the Kitchen Table Math, but haven't used it myself. Mainly, I would suggest hanging in there with some sort of regular, funnish program that you enjoy (or at least don't mind) teaching until you have been working with CM for a year or so and have a good feel for how it applies to your situation. I will say that I've found MUS easy to adapt to CM methods such as short lessons, and it is very ordered and progressive so the child is always taught explicitly what they need to know to do the work, another CM-friendly aspect. For some MUS presentations I've needed to teach the topic a different way but it's always worked out. I could be wrong, though. A year off math at this age won't hurt anybody (though it does pain me to say it). The original Classical students didn't start formal schooling 'till seven, and several of them turned out okay ;). ... why is all my computer time at 1AM? I could be so much more useful during Thinking Hours :tongue_smilie: Edited January 16, 2012 by serendipitous journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanna Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have seen MEPbeore but didn't really look into, I did after you mentioned it. It does look good and I know many people use it. I have not decided either way yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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