Why I Hate Religion But Love Jesus

[Lovedtodeath]

The Lutheran church was mentioned as the one with the largest charity organisation in the US ;) Two different declarations :)

OH! Thank you! I shouldn't have said that at all, but am glad to be corrected.

[Lovedtodeath]

Nakia' date=' I also loved the video. Thanks for sharing it!

 

I also read the rebuttal at bad Catholic, and think he (or she, I don't know who the author of that blog is) makes a few assumptions of his/her own.

For one, bad Catholic assumes that the man in the video is referring to

Catholicism when he says religion. Hmmm...I never thought that as I watched the video. Why does bad Catholic make that assumption?

Did I miss something?

 

Bad Catholic assumes that video man is talking about

Catholics that build big churches and don't give to the poor. I've heard there are some pretty big Protestant churches, and that's what went through my mind when he said that. but bad

Catholic assumed that and felt the need to defend the RC

Church by saying that they give more than any organization in the world.

 

Furthermore, he (bad Catholic) refers to Christ-followers in a sarcastic way, in my opinion. I classify myself as a Christ-follower, because that is what I am. I not the follower of a specific denomination. I do go to a denominational church, but I don't like to be classified that way. One of the problems with modern Christianity, in my opinion, is that we get too tied up in denominational boundaries, and forget that it is all about Jesus, for all of us.

 

I had a few more issues with some of his points, but typing on an iPad is getting laborious. :001_smile:

 

BTW, one of my very best friends is a devoted Catholic. I don't think of her as religious. Maybe she would consider herself such, however. I have the greatest admiration and respect for her and consider her spiritual input as some of the best I get.

 

When I hear religion, I associate it with exactly what the video guy does.

 

PS Please excuse any typos. This new fangled piece of technological equipment won't let me go back up to the top of this post to edit.:confused:[/quote']Wow. I agree. I agree. :iagree:!!!!!!!!!

 

I think a lot of the 'I hate religion' movement, if you will, really stems from different definitions of the word religion.

 

I do not support the modern American christianity version of 'religion' as it is taught in many church buildings today. I believe it to be very far from true Christianinty.

 

The bible says:

 

Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. - James 1:27, NKJV

 

THAT is true religion. Those are the things we should concentrate on. Not all the other trappings one can so readily find in mondern American 'churches'.

I am going to PM you, or you PM me... I would like to know specifically what trappings you are referring to. I will just listen. I promise not to argue. (Did you know that is my automatic form of communication? No kidding. :P )

 

It's people...there are the good, the bad, and the ugly amoungst us.

Yes. I have even met self-righteous agnostics. You can find Pharisees in many churches. You can also find good people who are led by Jesus Christ.

[mytwomonkeys]

well, he isn't a theologian, so i didn't listen with the intent of anything more than what his underlying point was. i thought it was very good. he spoke from his own experience. it sounds like he attempted to go through the motions of christianity with an inward disconnect, and from his POV that was "religion". when he had a heart change, he stopped being merely "religious" and transformed into something that took place from the inside-out. although his mantra may not stand up against a theologian, i personally thought his underlying story was very heart-felt.

[Cassy]

I liked it, a lot.

 

I no longer claim to be 'Christian', but I found in profoundly moving.

 

Best wishes

 

Cassy

[Lovedtodeath]

 

well, he isn't a theologian, so i didn't listen with the intent of anything more than what his underlying point was. i thought it was very good. he spoke from his own experience. it sounds like he attempted to go through the motions of christianity with an inward disconnect, and from his POV that was "religion". when he had a heart change, he stopped being merely "religious" and transformed into something that took place from the inside-out. although his mantra may not stand up against a theologian, i personally thought his underlying story was very heart-felt.

Perspective. Thank you.

[Nakia]

well, he isn't a theologian, so i didn't listen with the intent of anything more than what his underlying point was. i thought it was very good. he spoke from his own experience. it sounds like he attempted to go through the motions of christianity with an inward disconnect, and from his POV that was "religion". when he had a heart change, he stopped being merely "religious" and transformed into something that took place from the inside-out. although his mantra may not stand up against a theologian, i personally thought his underlying story was very heart-felt.

 

Exactly.

 

I don't care how bad his poetry is lacking either. I find a lot of famous poetry lacking. Again, just my opinion.

[Lovedtodeath]

At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, --Titus 3:3-5

 

Something I learned is that changes don't really start with us. It starts with God. You don't get cleaned up and find God, you find God and then get cleaned up. I also learned a lot of things about faith but most importantly "when worrying is always replaced by worship, you know you are taking God at his word." -- sermon notes from a friend of mine

 

I think I like the description better than the video and I can really agree with what he is saying:

 

A poem I wrote to highlight the difference between Jesus and false religion. In the scriptures Jesus received the most opposition from the most religious people of his day. At it's core Jesus' gospel and the good news of the Cross is in pure opposition to self-righteousness/self-justification. Religion is man centered, Jesus is God-centered. This poem highlights my journey to discover this truth. Religion either ends in pride or despair. Pride because you make a list and can do it and act better than everyone, or despair because you can't do your own list of rules and feel "not good enough" for God. With Jesus though you have humble confident joy because He represents you, you don't represent yourself and His sacrifice is perfect putting us in perfect standing with God!

[Nakia]

I wanted to share these verses from Ephesians chapter 2. The girls and I are reading the book of Ephesians, and we read these this morning.

 

11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

[milovany]

well, he isn't a theologian...

 

Except that he is trying to pass himself off as one. If you visit his website and FB page, you'll see that he's not just a kid singing about his experience, he's a professional speaker on the Christian circuit, hunting for gigs. His stated purpose is to "make [Jesus] famous" (as if the Lord Jesus Christ needs help :D) -- so to be a professional speaker touring the land talking about God and Christianity, he does need to have some solid theology and understanding of church history.

 

Which he doesn't.

[mytwomonkeys]

Except that he is trying to pass himself off as one. If you visit his website and FB page, you'll see that he's not just a kid singing about his experience, he's a professional speaker on the Christian circuit, hunting for gigs. His stated purpose is to "make [Jesus] famous" (as if the Lord Jesus Christ needs help :D) -- so to be a professional speaker touring the land talking about God and Christianity, he does need to have some solid theology and understanding of church history.

 

Which he doesn't.

 

well, i certainly didn't research this guy; i just looked at what was linked. imho it was spoken from his own experience in life and that's what shaped this poem/rap - whatever it is, lol. to have an opinion on his teachings beyond this i'd have to sit and listen. on a personal note though, i'm happy he has had a change in his life big enough to write about and share. he seems very young, and i'm sure with maturity and time, god will refine & shape him. i imagine what he has to share can still make a worthy contribution, and as people challenge him, he will develop more sound theology.

[justamouse]

The fault is Man. Some people show Grace and put themselves out there to "love their neighbour" and some do not. This happens amoungst peoples of all faiths and even amoungst Atheists. I've known some wonderful Atheists and some very self centered, judgemental Atheists. It's people...there are the good, the bad, and the ugly amoungst us.

:iagree:

In every field there is wheat and tares, they both grow alongside each other. That's everywhere, you're not going to find any establishment that is all wheat. At least this side of heaven.

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree:

In every field there is wheat and tares, they both grow alongside each other. That's everywhere, you're not going to find any establishment that is all wheat. At least this side of heaven.

YES!!!

 

Here is what I found on his facebook page:

If you are using my video to bash "the church" be careful. I was in no way intending to do that. My heart came from trying to highlight and expose legalism and hypocrisy. The Church is Jesus' bride so be careful how you speak of His wife. If a normal dude has right to get pissed when you bash His wife, it makes me tremble to think how great the weight is when we do it to Jesus' wife. The church is His vehicle to reach a lost word. A hospital for sinners. Saying you love Jesus but hate the Church, is like a fiancé saying he loves his future bride, but hates her kids. We are all under grace. Look to Him.

[Caitilin]

Except that he is trying to pass himself off as one. If you visit his website and FB page, you'll see that he's not just a kid singing about his experience, he's a professional speaker on the Christian circuit, hunting for gigs. His stated purpose is to "make [Jesus] famous" (as if the Lord Jesus Christ needs help :D) -- so to be a professional speaker touring the land talking about God and Christianity, he does need to have some solid theology and understanding of church history.

 

Which he doesn't.

 

:iagree::D

[simka2]

YES!!!

 

Here is what I found on his facebook page:

If you are using my video to bash "the church" be careful. I was in no way intending to do that. My heart came from trying to highlight and expose legalism and hypocrisy. The Church is Jesus' bride so be careful how you speak of His wife. If a normal dude has right to get pissed when you bash His wife, it makes me tremble to think how great the weight is when we do it to Jesus' wife. The church is His vehicle to reach a lost word. A hospital for sinners. Saying you love Jesus but hate the Church, is like a fiancé saying he loves his future bride, but hates her kids. We are all under grace. Look to Him.

 

What he has written there is almost a direct quote from John Bevere's, Fear of God, book (although I think I have seen others use it as well).

 

I am really shocked this is on his FB. It is the very type of dangerous controlling "religion" that I thought he was speaking against. The "church" as he is using it is not infallible and God will not squish anyone for pointing out it's faults.

 

LTD, I know you were not saying this. I just have a long history with that particular phrase. To my shame I even used it to stop legitimate criticism of churches I was on staff with. It is what I would refer to a a shame based statement.

[mytwomonkeys]

okay. i looked at his FB page. he seems to really love jesus. i imagine his "speaking" engagements are more testimony based than teaching based, simply wanting to share what god has done in and through him. i agree that doesn't make him qualified whatsoever, but if he isn't claiming to be something he isn't, than it's not deceitful either. he's very young still, and i imagine he will grow up in his theology. i'm sure we all can share experiences from our own journeys, ykwim?

[mommaduck]

Why do people post things by people that they haven't research or know nothing of?

[susankenny]

Why do people post things by people that they haven't research or know nothing of?

 

Does this video really require research? Either you like it or think it's lame, no?

 

 

Susan

[PeacefulChaos]

I didn't watch because the title sets up a false dichotomy and the "pure and undefiled religion" verse kept springing to mind whenever I saw the video pop up in my news feed today. I got the gist of it from the rebuttals and liked reading them. It's impressive he's had millions of hits on YouTube in any case.

 

ETA: I especially liked Jared Wilson's post Jesus Was Religious. He suggests "self-righteousness" as a more accurate term than "religion" to describe what Bethke is condemning in the video.

"So, again: Jefferson Bethke is on to something good and right. But we are on to something good and right to make the right distinctions, lest we put ourselves in the Pharisaical place of saying 'I thank you God I'm not like those religious people.'"

I love that. I wish I could say something to that effect on my FB (I've had, oh, maybe, 10 friends share that video in the last day. I would like to rebut it a little but I'm choosing not to, so as not to stir up the pot. :) )

:leaving:

Am I the only one who dislikes it as much for the lacking poetry as for the floppy theology?

:leaving:

I thought it was a little lame, yes.

YES!!!

 

Here is what I found on his facebook page:

If you are using my video to bash "the church" be careful. I was in no way intending to do that. My heart came from trying to highlight and expose legalism and hypocrisy. The Church is Jesus' bride so be careful how you speak of His wife. If a normal dude has right to get pissed when you bash His wife, it makes me tremble to think how great the weight is when we do it to Jesus' wife. The church is His vehicle to reach a lost word. A hospital for sinners. Saying you love Jesus but hate the Church, is like a fiancé saying he loves his future bride, but hates her kids. We are all under grace. Look to Him.

 

Interesting. Because that really seems like what he is doing in the video. I mean, I get it, but it still just seems like someone could watch the video and think that he's doing exactly what the above statement says he isn't... its just strange.

[mommaduck]

Does this video really require research? Either you like it or think it's lame, no?

 

 

Susan

Yes, it does. Background on a person can help clarify context. There are some people where what they say at first sounds good, until you understand their background and how they are using what they said. I neither liked it nor thought it was entirely lame.

[simka2]

I wanted to share these verses from Ephesians chapter 2. The girls and I are reading the book of Ephesians, and we read these this morning.

 

11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

 

Nakia, instead of answering it myself, I decided to go ahead and ask the author of the first the rebuttal (my favorite can you tell ;)) his thoughts. Here is what he had to say:

 

 

"Paul’s point is that the Old Covenant has now been replaced by the New Covenant, not that we are now doing away with covenants entirely. The New one, as Christ said, is not an abolition of the Old, but is its fulfillment. So, for instance, baptism now takes the place of circumcision as the entry into Israel (the New Israel).

Paul is also specifically address a theological debate of his time: Do Gentiles have to become Jews before they can become Christians? The answer he and all of the Apostles gave (though it took Peter some time to come around to this) was “no.”"

 

Bolding was mine.

[susankenny]

Yes, it does. Background on a person can help clarify context. There are some people where what they say at first sounds good, until you understand their background and how they are using what they said. I neither liked it nor thought it was entirely lame.

 

I thought it was lame. I didn't need to research to know that. For those who enjoyed it, I assume they felt the same way. Just on the opposite end of the spectrum. It's a viral youtube video, nothing more to me.

 

 

Susan

 

ETA - to elaborate though, I do agree with you. For example, if someone had asked about, "Love Wins" by Rob Bell - that would have been something to be very familiar with before posting. I guess I just didn't see this video as something needing more knowledge than what was shared (the issue at hand seems to be semantics over the word "religion"). Obviously Nakia was moved by it & wanted to see what others thought. I didn't feel her posting it before researching it was negligent. That's all.

Edited January 13, 2012 by susankenny

[Lovedtodeath]

What he has written there is almost a direct quote from John Bevere's, Fear of God, book (although I think I have seen others use it as well).

 

I am really shocked this is on his FB. It is the very type of dangerous controlling "religion" that I thought he was speaking against. The "church" as he is using it is not infallible and God will not squish anyone for pointing out it's faults.

 

LTD, I know you were not saying this. I just have a long history with that particular phrase. To my shame I even used it to stop legitimate criticism of churches I was on staff with. It is what I would refer to a a shame based statement.

Simka, do you know how good you are for me? Well, you are! You are a gift.

 

That was the unworded thought that nagged at me about these words. I think, again, that the problem is definition. Define "church" and I am good. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

Interesting. Because that really seems like what he is doing in the video. I mean, I get it, but it still just seems like someone could watch the video and think that he's doing exactly what the above statement says he isn't... its just strange.

:iagree:yes. I thought, weird. He is happy about his video going viral and then writes something that sounds like an apology for it?

 

I won't comment on my feelings about him trying to make this a career... is that really his intent? Or is he just wanting to share his testimony?

 

I didn't need to research to know that. For those who enjoyed it, I assume they felt the same way.

Yep! Edited January 13, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[Lovedtodeath]

I think that if you insert false in front of religion it all makes sense. I do agree with his message, because that is where I was... that is where a lot of people are. They think that being a Christian is about what you do. They think that without Christ's ransom sacrifice they are doomed no matter what they do... He died to give them a chance... now we have a chance to do these things in order to be good enough for God.

 

NO

 

Christ within you, dwelling inside of you, that is what changes a person.

 

One of the things that brought me to Christ was knowing that I wasn't going to find the wheat all in one place and I needed to decide what God was telling me, not listen to the doctrine of a denomination... any denomination. My DH and I both started out with just us and Christ, believing that all religion was false religion. Once you are at that place, then He can work on you and teach you. It has worked well for us. DH has attended church several times now, when he started out saying he never would. And that is good, because we have learned not to rely on a church or denomination, but rely only on Him.

 

I have friends and family that are very motivated by messages such as this one because it helps them separate Christ from false Christians. It is a message that some people need.

 

ramble ramble ramble.

 

Thank you and good night.;)

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Nakia, you have a kind heart and I'm glad that this video spoke to you.

 

 

However, the guy who created it sounds conflicted. He "hates religion", but loves Jesus. Religion created Jesus. (People who lived many years AFTER Jesus writing down stories, etc.) "Jesus" is a part of religion. I can see how he seems to mean that he hates legalism, etc, etc., but whatever, to most it really IS one and the same (religion/Jesus following).

 

I had a woman in my home one time tell me that she doens't consider herself a Christian, instead she calls herself a "follower of Jesus". oooookay. Whatever. Would it not sound ridiculous for someone to say, "I don't call myself a Jew or Jewish. I am rather a follower of Judaism". It seems like an unnecessary way to try to irritate those around you, honestly. Like when homeschoolers suddenly decide, "No, I'm not a homeschooler. We are home educators". ooookay. Again, whatever. To the casual observer does it not seem very very similar?! :lol:

 

I get it that people feel like, "Well, MY relationship with God, Jesus, etc. is different, it is a PERSONAL relationship, not just a religion", but, truly, many religious people feel the same way about THEIR relationship with THEIR deity.

[Nakia]

Why do people post things by people that they haven't research or know nothing of?

 

I seldom see a post here that has extensive research behind it. I posted the video because I spent 32 years in extremely legalistic churches and never really knew the real Jesus. Many people I love want nothing to do with God because of extreme man-made "religion." Truly salvation through Jesus Christ is easy to understand but Christians have spent a lot of time and effort making it hard. The video makes sense to me. I didn't post it expecting everyone to love it; I've been here long to know better than that. And I do happen to know quite a bit about this young man, and I like him anyway. And I still love his video.

[Nakia]

Nakia, you have a kind heart and I'm glad that this video spoke to you.

 

 

However, the guy who created it sounds conflicted. He "hates religion", but loves Jesus. Religion created Jesus. (People who lived many years AFTER Jesus writing down stories, etc.) "Jesus" is a part of religion. I can see how he seems to mean that he hates legalism, etc, etc., but whatever, to most it really IS one and the same (religion/Jesus following).

 

I had a woman in my home one time tell me that she doens't consider herself a Christian, instead she calls herself a "follower of Jesus". oooookay. Whatever. Would it not sound ridiculous for someone to say, "I don't call myself a Jew or Jewish. I am rather a follower of Judaism". It seems like an unnecessary way to try to irritate those around you, honestly. Like when homeschoolers suddenly decide, "No, I'm not a homeschooler. We are home educators". ooookay. Again, whatever. To the casual observer does it not seem very very similar?! :lol:

 

I get it that people feel like, "Well, MY relationship with God, Jesus, etc. is different, it is a PERSONAL relationship, not just a religion", but, truly, many religious people feel the same way about THEIR relationship with THEIR deity.

 

The only part of your post I'm going to comment on is your statement that "religion created Jesus." That's not true. God created Jesus to be a sacrifice for a lost and dying world. It was His plan from the beginning.

 

God does not equal religion.

[Nakia]

Nakia, instead of answering it myself, I decided to go ahead and ask the author of the first the rebuttal (my favorite can you tell ;)) his thoughts. Here is what he had to say:

 

 

"Paul’s point is that the Old Covenant has now been replaced by the New Covenant, not that we are now doing away with covenants entirely. The New one, as Christ said, is not an abolition of the Old, but is its fulfillment. So, for instance, baptism now takes the place of circumcision as the entry into Israel (the New Israel).

Paul is also specifically address a theological debate of his time: Do Gentiles have to become Jews before they can become Christians? The answer he and all of the Apostles gave (though it took Peter some time to come around to this) was “no.â€"

 

Bolding was mine.

 

Thank you for sharing his thoughts. I do not believe we have to be baptized to go to heaven (the new Israel), and I'm not sure if you do, but that's not important in this conversation. It seems like perhaps our theology (and I did say I'm no theologian, as in I don't have a degree, but I have studied the bible a lot) is just very different. We can agree to disagree and I'm good with that. I love the book of Ephesians because I think it paints a beautiful picture of who we are in Christ.

[Nakia]

I thought it was lame. I didn't need to research to know that. For those who enjoyed it, I assume they felt the same way. Just on the opposite end of the spectrum. It's a viral youtube video, nothing more to me.

 

 

Susan

 

ETA - to elaborate though, I do agree with you. For example, if someone had asked about, "Love Wins" by Rob Bell - that would have been something to be very familiar with before posting. I guess I just didn't see this video as something needing more knowledge than what was shared (the issue at hand seems to be semantics over the word "religion"). Obviously Nakia was moved by it & wanted to see what others thought. I didn't feel her posting it before researching it was negligent. That's all.

 

Thank you.

[Cassy]

I seldom see a post here that has extensive research behind it. I posted the video because I spent 32 years in extremely legalistic churches and never really knew the real Jesus. Many people I love want nothing to do with God because of extreme man-made "religion." Truly salvation through Jesus Christ is easy to understand but Christians have spent a lot of time and effort making it hard. The video makes sense to me. I didn't post it expecting everyone to love it; I've been here long to know better than that. And I do happen to know quite a bit about this young man, and I like him anyway. And I still love his video.

 

Nakia, I think you're wonderful.

 

Cassy

[MIch elle]

I find that Youtube video disturbing. It's sad that he feels that way.

[Nakia]

Nakia, I think you're wonderful.

 

Cassy

 

Awww, thank you, Cassy. I really appreciate it!

[twoxcell]

My BIL shared this article about it on Facebook and I really like what it said.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2012/01/13/does-jesus-hate-religion-kinda-sorta-not-really/

 

To the OP I think it was perfectly acceptable for you to post the video even without any research.;)

[Caitilin]

Nakia, I hope you know that you are loved and valued, and that any complaints I have about the video I reserve to the author, and not to you. :grouphug:

[sewingmama]

Just a rehash of the same old/same old. Making a defense as to why you don't need to get out of your sins because Jesus has already saved you by grace.

 

I think a lot of what he says is based on false premises. When Jesus said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" he wasn't talking to the general population -but specifically to the Roman soldiers who had been ordered to kill him. Those who commanded his death knew exactly what they were doing.

 

And yes Jesus was persecuted the most by religious people. He was telling them that their way was wrong - and that is very hard to take for anyone with firm beliefs in place. Those who had no religion would be more likely to follow Jesus and accept his teachings because they didn't already have conflicting beliefs. It must have been very hard for the religious leaders to accept this man who came along and told them he was some sort of God.

 

How blasphamous, how crazy - how could this man of flesh be a God? What if that happened today - we all have our own beliefs, our own religions - what if a man appeared and started professing that he was the Son of God? -would we believe him? - I highly doubt it.

 

I don't think that video has a shred of truth in it - but I do understand his disatisfaction with people proffessing to be Christian and then not acting like it.

[mommaduck]

Nakia, I hope you know that you are loved and valued, and that any complaints I have about the video I reserve to the author, and not to you. :grouphug:

Ditto :D :iagree:

[mommaduck]

I thought it was lame. I didn't need to research to know that. For those who enjoyed it, I assume they felt the same way. Just on the opposite end of the spectrum. It's a viral youtube video, nothing more to me.

 

 

Susan

 

ETA - to elaborate though, I do agree with you. For example, if someone had asked about, "Love Wins" by Rob Bell - that would have been something to be very familiar with before posting. I guess I just didn't see this video as something needing more knowledge than what was shared (the issue at hand seems to be semantics over the word "religion"). Obviously Nakia was moved by it & wanted to see what others thought. I didn't feel her posting it before researching it was negligent. That's all.

I didn't mean to make anyone feel negligent about it. I'm sorry :( I think I'm just a bit of a hard nose when it comes to certain things. And I seem to be on a roll lately...I think I need to go back to my corner for a bit.

[LG Gone Wild]

YES!!!

 

Here is what I found on his facebook page:

If you are using my video to bash "the church" be careful. I was in no way intending to do that. My heart came from trying to highlight and expose legalism and hypocrisy. The Church is Jesus' bride so be careful how you speak of His wife. If a normal dude has right to get pissed when you bash His wife, it makes me tremble to think how great the weight is when we do it to Jesus' wife. The church is His vehicle to reach a lost word. A hospital for sinners. Saying you love Jesus but hate the Church, is like a fiancé saying he loves his future bride, but hates her kids. We are all under grace. Look to Him.

 

So now his video makes even less sense.

 

ETA: ... to me, anyway. Does it not sound like he is contradicting himself?

Edited January 14, 2012 by LG Gone Wild

[Nakia]

Nakia, I hope you know that you are loved and valued, and that any complaints I have about the video I reserve to the author, and not to you. :grouphug:

 

 

Thank you Caitilin. I am really enjoying the discussion. And anyway, I've got a pretty thick skin. ;)

[Nakia]

I don't think he is contradicting himself at all. The church does not equal religion. The "church" refers to Christians, the bride of Christ, not a building or a denomination or a set of rules.

[Caribbean Queen]

So now his video makes even less sense.

 

ETA: ... to me, anyway. Does it not sound like he is contradicting himself?

 

I don't understand how someone can love the church, but hate the religion.

[Nakia]

Has anybody heard the song "My Jesus" by Todd Agnew?

 

Just a rehash of the same old/same old. Making a defense as to why you don't need to get out of your sins because Jesus has already saved you by grace.

 

I think a lot of what he says is based on false premises. When Jesus said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" he wasn't talking to the general population -but specifically to the Roman soldiers who had been ordered to kill him. Those who commanded his death knew exactly what they were doing.

 

And yes Jesus was persecuted the most by religious people. He was telling them that their way was wrong - and that is very hard to take for anyone with firm beliefs in place. Those who had no religion would be more likely to follow Jesus and accept his teachings because they didn't already have conflicting beliefs. It must have been very hard for the religious leaders to accept this man who came along and told them he was some sort of God.

 

How blasphamous, how crazy - how could this man of flesh be a God? What if that happened today - we all have our own beliefs, our own religions - what if a man appeared and started professing that he was the Son of God? -would we believe him? - I highly doubt it.

 

I don't think that video has a shred of truth in it - but I do understand his disatisfaction with people proffessing to be Christian and then not acting like it.

 

Regarding the first bolded statement above, the guy in the video (I have suddenly forgotten his name) speaks of his own sin. I can't see how that can be interpreted as trying to get out of sins.

 

With regards to the second bolded statement, he said basically the same thing in his video towards the end.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Many people I love want nothing to do with God because of extreme man-made "religion." Truly salvation through Jesus Christ is easy to understand but Christians have spent a lot of time and effort making it hard.

Amen!

Just a rehash of the same old/same old. Making a defense as to why you don't need to get out of your sins because Jesus has already saved you by grace.

I completely disagree. What he said was that when he had religion but didn't really have Jesus he was sinning, but that changed.

[Soror]

I don't think he is contradicting himself at all. The church does not equal religion. The "church" refers to Christians, the bride of Christ, not a building or a denomination or a set of rules.

 

Catholics for one do not believe/agree with this interpretation. We believe "The Church" is real on this earth.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I don't think he is contradicting himself at all. The church does not equal religion. The "church" refers to Christians, the bride of Christ, not a building or a denomination or a set of rules.

Nakia, you rock! I started to respond to all of this and by the time I got back, you had already done so. :001_wub: Love to you my sister.

[Lovedtodeath]

Catholics for one do not believe/agree with this interpretation. We believe "The Church" is real on this earth.

Real, yes. In one organized institution? No. Matthew 13

[PeacefulChaos]

Nakia, I hope you know that you are loved and valued, and that any complaints I have about the video I reserve to the author, and not to you. :grouphug:

:iagree::grouphug:

 

So now his video makes even less sense.

 

ETA: ... to me, anyway. Does it not sound like he is contradicting himself?

 

I agree with you. :)

 

Overall, I'm neither here nor there on it. Some of what he says is fine, but not all of it. It's just 'meh' for me. :) Some of my fb friends love it, though, and have posted it saying it's incredible/gave them goosebumps/made them want to jump up and down and shout amen/etc. I don't see it. I posted the link that one of the PPs posted on my fb. :D (The one with the quote about becoming pharasaical - totally mangled that, I know - by saying 'God, thank you that I am not like those religious people'.)

[LG Gone Wild]

I don't think he is contradicting himself at all. The church does not equal religion. The "church" refers to Christians, the bride of Christ, not a building or a denomination or a set of rules.

 

I don't think that is what *he* is saying. If it is, then his FB statement still doesn't make sense.

[elizabeth]

That was truly amazing. Had I ever heard that from a priest or minister I might not believe christianity is no longer about Christ but about institutions built on his name. You rock Nakia. You are challenging and complicated and I never, ever know where you are going with a post. No little niche for you...and that is a very good thing. :001_smile:

[susankenny]

I didn't mean to make anyone feel negligent about it. I'm sorry :( I think I'm just a bit of a hard nose when it comes to certain things. And I seem to be on a roll lately...I think I need to go back to my corner for a bit.

 

:grouphug: I didn't mean to make you feel bad.

 

Susan