Nakia Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Saw this on Facebook today and wanted to share. Very intense and pretty amazing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 :iagree: I shared this on my FB last night - got it from my sis in law! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yeah, this is going viral. And he's from my neck of the woods, so way to represent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I have been in a few heavy discussions about this video today. I admire this young man's talent and his obvious heart for God and people. Even though I think there is much that is "good" in his poem/rap, I am very bothered by his use of the word "Religion." I found these to rebuttals to be very well reasoned. Please note. They do not disagree with him on every point. Just quite a few of them ;) http://roadsfromemmaus.org/2012/01/12/why-i-love-true-religion-because-i-love-jesus/ http://nearemmaus.com/2012/01/11/remember-jesus-practiced-religion-too/ I will say this. If he had used the word "hypocrisy" or "legalism" I would have a much better feeling. On the other hand, I do think this is an important revelation...just an incorrect application of the word religion. "What’s worst about this, though, is that religion is actually a rather great word, once you look inside it. It’s from Latin, and it means “reconnection” (re + ligio)." -quote is from the first linked article. Edited January 13, 2012 by simka2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I will say this. If he had used the word "hypocrisy" or "legalism" I would have a much better feeling. On the other hand, I do think this is an important revelation...just an incorrect application of the word religion. "What’s worst about this, though, is that religion is actually a rather great word, once you look inside it. It’s from Latin, and it means “reconnection†(re + ligio)." -quote is from the first linked article. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 :iagree: Agreeing also. I turned it off after a minute or so because it wasn't making sense to me, but he lost me at the start, "What if I told you Jesus came to abolish religion?" I guess he needs to define religion, but if he means what is typically thought of as "organized religion" (which is my assumption; I'm open to being corrected), his theology and understanding of the Bible and church history is pretty off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 He didn't say anything that hasn't been hashed out many times before. I have a problem with the whole "I hate religion" thing as well, although I can't always pinpoint why. The articles listed help put words to my thoughts. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Because people throw around the word "religion" when they have absolutely no faith, no "reconnection" (as someone posted above), and use it to say they are a Christian...when in fact, they are "just religious"...going through the motions and most religions have rituals and such. I think it's a great point...I'm not religious...I dont' have rituals and I don't just say I'm a christian. I AM a Christian, and I AM His. I think the heart of it is totally right. Religion is out...relationship is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I finally got around to watching it and I was like Meh... I wasn't all that impressed. The school of thinking that 'It isn't religion, it's a relationship' (and things along those lines) has just become another religion, honestly. People being so adamant about not being religious become religious in their non religiousness. It gets to where it just is like ok, that's nice... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yeah, I guess it's one of those things that really speaks to some and not to others, and that's okay. I think it's pretty obvious that he is talking about laws, legalism, rules, "man-made religion" etc. I just did a quick search and found that the word "religion" comes from the Latin word "religare" which means "to bind up" or to "place an obligation on." I'm sure that the author of the first site linked above is more versed in Latin words than I am, but still, I'd like to know his source. Good discussion! I hope more people chime in. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I guess it's one of those things that really speaks to some and not to others, and that's okay. I think it's pretty obvious that he is talking about laws, legalism, rules, "man-made religion" etc. I just did a quick search and found that the word "religion" comes from the Latin word "religare" which means "to bind up" or to "place an obligation on." I'm sure that the author of the first site linked above is more versed in Latin words than I am, but still, I'd like to know his source. Good discussion! I hope more people chime in. :001_smile: Paste I found this " Etymology From religiōn-, the stem of the Latin religiō (“scrupulousness”, “pious misgivings”, “superstition”, “conscientiousness”, “sanctity”, “an object of veneration”, “cult-observance”, “reverence”), from religō (“I bind back or behind”), from re + ligō (“I tie, bind, or bandage”)." http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/religion#Etymology That was just the first thing that came up in my google search. I think I could find quite a few others, but the point is to bandage something is to reconnect tissue. Hope that helps! ;) Oooh, I like this one! "The most common interpretation of religion is “ to join again”, “ to reconnect.” Latin roots of the word re - meaning “ again” and lig – meaning “join” or “ connect”." (Micheal Malloy, Experiencing the Worlds Religions) Edited January 13, 2012 by simka2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIS0320 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Catholic rebuttal here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/01/why-i-hate-religion-but-love-jesus-the-smackdow.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ok, my take, before reading any of the rebuttals or whatever, is that he's got a very specific and completely negative idea of what religion is and the video comes off like a rather harsh rant than a reasoned argument. Besides, didn't Jesus say he came to fulfill the law, not abolish it? Sure, he had some serious problems with the way the religious leaders of the day were running things but that doesn't mean he hated religion indiscriminately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Paste I found this "Etymology From religiōn-, the stem of the Latin religiō (“scrupulousness”, “pious misgivings”, “superstition”, “conscientiousness”, “sanctity”, “an object of veneration”, “cult-observance”, “reverence”), from religō (“I bind back or behind”), from re + ligō (“I tie, bind, or bandage”)." http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/religion#Etymology That was just the first thing that came up in my google search. I think I could find quite a few others, but the point is to bandage something is to reconnect tissue. Hope that helps! ;) Oooh, I like this one! "The most common interpretation of religion is “ to join again”, “ to reconnect.” Latin roots of the word re - meaning “ again” and lig – meaning “join” or “ connect”." (Micheal Malloy, Experiencing the Worlds Religions) I do get what you are saying, but to me there is a huge difference in "to join" and "to bind." Join implies something mutual. Being bound to something is not the same thing, or at least it doesn't sound the same to me. It sounds very negative. And to be obligated, as the definition I posted stated, goes along with that. That's just how I'm seeing it, but I'm no bible scholar. Jesus didn't have anything to do with being obligated. Maybe that's the angle this guy is coming from. I guess this is the reason there are so many religions, huh? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCrazyMama Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I finally got around to watching it and I was like Meh...I wasn't all that impressed. The school of thinking that 'It isn't religion, it's a relationship' (and things along those lines) has just become another religion, honestly. People being so adamant about not being religious become religious in their non religiousness. It gets to where it just is like ok, that's nice... :) :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I finally got around to watching it and I was like Meh...I wasn't all that impressed. The school of thinking that 'It isn't religion, it's a relationship' (and things along those lines) has just become another religion, honestly. People being so adamant about not being religious become religious in their non religiousness. It gets to where it just is like ok, that's nice... :) I totally agree with the bolded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I liked the video because we moved 8 years ago and still haven't found a new church. Our experiences have not been good and we've tried almost every denomination I can think of (except Catholic) and several non-denominational ones. We're trying a new one this Sunday. It's been depressing but I didn't want my kids in most of them and we were just very uncomfortable in the others. I grew up in a Baptist church but the ones here are nothing like it. I don't hate organized religion but it's not what it once was -at least here, now, and for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I do get what you are saying, but to me there is a huge difference in "to join" and "to bind." Join implies something mutual. Being bound to something is not the same thing, or at least it doesn't sound the same to me. It sounds very negative. And to be obligated, as the definition I posted stated, goes along with that. That's just how I'm seeing it, but I'm no bible scholar. Jesus didn't have anything to do with being obligated. Maybe that's the angle this guy is coming from. I guess this is the reason there are so many religions, huh? ;) When I first read your definition it sounded a bit like what I would call "modern latin." I realize latin is dead language, but when we apply current word bias to latin roots it can slightly distort the meaning...either negatively or positively. I think the key is that it breaks down to "reBind" or "Bind again." This speaks to me of healing something that was torn, not putting someone under bondage...although unhealthy religious systems can do that. Here is another article on the Etymology of the word Relgion that does a pretty good job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Etymology Like I said originally, I think there is much to find that is admirable in heart and artistic presentation. I just realize you have "to join or to bind" up there. That is a bit different than "re-bind." Edited January 13, 2012 by simka2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I saw the title of the video and didn't bother watching. The title reminds me of when my kids read some history. I go through the narration questions. If they get the first question wrong. We stop. They immediately have to reread. No need to go further. The very title of the video indicated to me he didn't past the comprehension assessment. No need to go further. Jesus was himself religious. He was an *obedient* Jew. He then established a new religion. He is Christianity, a religion. It doesn't make sense to claim to hate religion and love Jesus. If you hate religion then you must also hate Jesus. You can hate hypocrites, but that's different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This was my response on FB when I saw the video. James 1:27 "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." Religion isn't bad; it's legalism or like people have said... lack of relationship. But religion isn't a word I think that Christians should give up. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I saw the title of the video and didn't bother watching. The title reminds me of when my kids read some history. I go through the narration questions. If they get the first question wrong. We stop. They immediately have to reread. No need to go further. The very title of the video indicated to me he didn't past the comprehension assessment. No need to go further. Jesus was himself religious. He was an *obedient* Jew. He then established a new religion. He is Christianity, a religion. It doesn't make sense to claim to hate religion and love Jesus. If you hate religion then you must also hate Jesus. You can hate hypocrites, but that's different. Reminds me of people who say they love Jesus but don't care about studying Theology. Hmmmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I guess he needs to define religion, but if he means what is typically thought of as "organized religion" (which is my assumption; I'm open to being corrected), his theology and understanding of the Bible and church history is pretty off. Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have seen this video all over facebook the last couple of days, and while I kinda get what he is trying to say and I could agree with some of it. Something about the video really bothers me. In fact I actually found myself agreeing more with what one of the Catholic rebuttal blogs said, and I'm not even Catholic.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I rarely use the word "hate" because, obviously, it is a strong word. I reserve it for things like murder and abortion. So that's one thing that bugged me about the video. Otherwise, I think he was mostly spot on. That's just my opinion. And by saying that I agree with him, I'm assuming that he means "legalism" and man-made religion. When I first read your definition it sounded a bit like what I would call "modern latin." I realize latin is dead language, but when we apply current word bias to latin roots it can slightly distort the meaning...either negatively or positively. I think the key is that it breaks down to "reBind" or "Bind again." This speaks to me of healing something that was torn, not putting someone under bondage...although unhealthy religious systems can do that. Here is another article on the Etymology of the word Relgion that does a pretty good job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Etymology Like I said originally, I think there is much to find that is admirable in heart and artistic presentation. I just realize you have "to join or to bind" up there. That is a bit different than "re-bind." Thank you for posting that. It makes sense. I do not have a problem with the word religion, but I do have a problem with a lot of "religious" people and organizations. I think the word is one that has such negative connotations, and it's not hard to see why. It never entered my mind that the guy in the video means to give up your connection to the church. In fact, he specifically says he loves the church. I can't believe God intended for the church to look like it does today. :( This was my response on FB when I saw the video. James 1:27 "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." Religion isn't bad; it's legalism or like people have said... lack of relationship. But religion isn't a word I think that Christians should give up. :( I agree. What I think Christians should give up is trying to be so darn "religious" that they forget what Jesus called them to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Catholic rebuttal here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/01/why-i-hate-religion-but-love-jesus-the-smackdow.html I loved that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yeah...He's talented, but it's not original thought and, in fact, some of it is quotation. lol I disagree, too, with the latter part of "religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man". Uh, God doesn't have to search for man at all. " Reaching down to man" is another way I've heard it and is more accurate, IMO. But I'm a stickler that way. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'm not a fan of the video either, for reasons pretty much already discussed by others and in the articles linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 http://raggedband.com/?p=1204 Eliot Rausch is a figure I ran across with his film about Oden. He's filmed some other very powerful moments and published them. The Kingdom, in particular I love. If you are a curious clicker type, I'd recommend you wait until day hours to view his short films. If you are anything like me, it's just too much...and I don't want to have this as the last images and words of the day. --- I bring up Eliot because he is real; and in comparison to the viral video being discussed...well..the viral video becomes... Hollywood and clinical. I appreciate what he's trying to say and share in the video, I do. The viral video and Eliot share some common ground; but the delivery is night and day different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I loved that one. Bad Catholic is so awesome. You've been Kris Kringled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIS0320 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bad Catholic is so awesome. You've been Kris Kringled! And isn't he only 19 or something? The next Jimmy Akin in the making. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Saw this on Facebook today and wanted to share. Very intense and pretty amazing!! wow!! thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I loved the video and understand all of those feelings. I thought it was beautiful. I also really enjoyed learning from the "rebuttals". Yes... I think that the "relationship not religion" thing can go too far. It seems I can't get baptized or take communion without people judging me for that. Well I have a relationship with God first, and then He told me to do those things... Edited January 13, 2012 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celia Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Interesting. I didn't really like it. I don't like when people use a perfectly good Biblical word (religion) as if it's something to be abhorred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) LOL one thing I learned from the rebuttals posted by my friends? The Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church are both the most charitable organization in the world. Sorry all... I have been discussing this on facebook and you are not seeing the full spectrum of the conversation. Forgive my error (Lutheran is US, Catholic is world) and the possible discouragement caused by it. Edited January 13, 2012 by Lovedtodeath I should not have said that, but will leave it so others know why things are later in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I didn't watch because the title sets up a false dichotomy and the "pure and undefiled religion" verse kept springing to mind whenever I saw the video pop up in my news feed today. I got the gist of it from the rebuttals and liked reading them. It's impressive he's had millions of hits on YouTube in any case. ETA: I especially liked Jared Wilson's post Jesus Was Religious. He suggests "self-righteousness" as a more accurate term than "religion" to describe what Bethke is condemning in the video. "So, again: Jefferson Bethke is on to something good and right. But we are on to something good and right to make the right distinctions, lest we put ourselves in the Pharisaical place of saying 'I thank you God I'm not like those religious people.'" Edited January 13, 2012 by WordGirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldjoy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I very much liked the video. I guess I found myself thinking not about me and fellow Christians, but of others, of those that are not Christian and have been hurt or confused or judged wrongly...I was awed with the impact it could have on those who have a completely different knowledge of this Jesus that many of us know. At the beginning I was worried that it would be too...mmm??what word am I looking for...."fluffy" maybe...too watery, too benign...however, it was none of those in my opinion. What he spoke of and described when he used the term "religion" is something that I am eerily familiar with because of my upbring. I believe this is also why the video had such an impact on me. I think that each one of us views the word or concept of "religion" according to the experiences that are attached to it, which is why I undesrtand the many negative comments about the title of the film or the way he uses the word relgion....however, from a different point of view, a view where this idea of religion was exactly as he described.....it is goosebumping good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I very much liked the video. I guess I found myself thinking not about me and fellow Christians, but of others, of those that are not Christian and have been hurt or confused or judged wrongly...I was awed with the impact it could have on those who have a completely different knowledge of this Jesus that many of us know. At the beginning I was worried that it would be too...mmm??what word am I looking for...."fluffy" maybe...too watery, too benign...however, it was none of those in my opinion. What he spoke of and described when he used the term "religion" is something that I am eerily familiar with because of my upbring. I believe this is also why the video had such an impact on me. I think that each one of us views the word or concept of "religion" according to the experiences that are attached to it, which is why I undesrtand the many negative comments about the title of the film or the way he uses the word relgion....however, from a different point of view, a view where this idea of religion was exactly as he described.....it is goosebumping good. Exactly. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 LOL guess what I learned from the rebuttals posted by my friends? The Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church are both the most charitable organization in the world. The Lutheran church was mentioned as the one with the largest charity organisation in the US ;) Two different declarations :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think a lot of the 'I hate religion' movement, if you will, really stems from different definitions of the word religion. I do not support the modern American christianity version of 'religion' as it is taught in many church buildings today. I believe it to be very far from true Christianinty. The bible says: Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. - James 1:27, NKJV THAT is true religion. Those are the things we should concentrate on. Not all the other trappings one can so readily find in mondern American 'churches'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nakia, I also loved the video. Thanks for sharing it! I also read the rebuttal at bad Catholic, and think he (or she, I don't know who the author of that blog is) makes a few assumptions of his/her own. For one, bad Catholic assumes that the man in the video is referring to Catholicism when he says religion. Hmmm...I never thought that as I watched the video. Why does bad Catholic make that assumption? Did I miss something? Bad Catholic assumes that video man is talking about Catholics that build big churches and don't give to the poor. I've heard there are some pretty big Protestant churches, and that's what went through my mind when he said that. but bad Catholic assumed that and felt the need to defend the RC Church by saying that they give more than any organization in the world. Furthermore, he (bad Catholic) refers to Christ-followers in a sarcastic way, in my opinion. I classify myself as a Christ-follower, because that is what I am. I not the follower of a specific denomination. I do go to a denominational church, but I don't like to be classified that way. One of the problems with modern Christianity, in my opinion, is that we get too tied up in denominational boundaries, and forget that it is all about Jesus, for all of us. I had a few more issues with some of his points, but typing on an iPad is getting laborious. :001_smile: BTW, one of my very best friends is a devoted Catholic. I don't think of her as religious. Maybe she would consider herself such, however. I have the greatest admiration and respect for her and consider her spiritual input as some of the best I get. When I hear religion, I associate it with exactly what the video guy does. PS Please excuse any typos. This new fangled piece of technological equipment won't let me go back up to the top of this post to edit.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitilin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 :leaving: Am I the only one who dislikes it as much for the lacking poetry as for the floppy theology? :leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldjoy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 :leaving:Am I the only one who dislikes it as much for the lacking poetry as for the floppy theology? :leaving: I know what you mean about the lacking poetry, I found myself thinking exactly that at different points throughout...but then, for me anyway, he would say something else is such a way that I loved. But yes, if I were to have a complaint it would be the the flow, or the poetry of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The Lutheran church was mentioned as the one with the largest charity organisation in the US ;) Two different declarations :) The Catholic rebuttal that Mouse posted (or a different Catholic post-er? Sorry!) says the Catholic church is. I think that's why LTD said both names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The Catholic rebuttal that Mouse posted (or a different Catholic post-er? Sorry!) says the Catholic church is. I think that's why LTD said both names. What I meant is that one is listed as largest in US and the other is listed as largest in the world :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitilin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I know what you mean about the lacking poetry, I found myself thinking exactly that at different points throughout...but then, for me anyway, he would say something else is such a way that I loved. But yes, if I were to have a complaint it would be the the flow, or the poetry of it. Hmm. Well, I feel that the lack of thought putinto the poetry does not bode well for the level of thought put into the theology. What could be more important to write well about than God? If you cannot be bothered to write well about Him, are you likely to be bothered to think well about Him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldjoy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hmm. Well, I feel that the lack of thought putinto the poetry does not bode well for the level of thought put into the theology. What could be more important to write well about than God? If you cannot be bothered to write well about Him, are you likely to be bothered to think well about Him? very, very interesting food for thought Caitlililn. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) The bible says: Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. - James 1:27, NKJV THAT is true religion. Those are the things we should concentrate on. Not all the other trappings one can so readily find in mondern American 'churches'. I think this, too, can be a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both, and is in many churches. Visiting the orphans and widows in their trouble is "religion" to be sure, but that doesn't mean religion isn't also found in church and what some might see as "trappings." For some, they're not separate things. Religion is serving God (by serving people) through the church that Christ established. Jesus did come to start a visible church (one that had sacraments, services and prayers, and hierarchy, etc. from the start), one that the gates of hell couldn't prevail against, and it's a place where people can be united to Him ("bound" to him, as the Latin says). How that is playing out may have changed over time, but this poetic artist can't at all say (truthfully) that Jesus hates religion, meaning these kinds of things (which is how I interpreted some of his words). Edited January 13, 2012 by milovaný Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 What I meant is that one is listed as largest in US and the other is listed as largest in the world :) Oh! Got it. Sorry. <blush> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I never attend churches where the entire action is on SUnday. All the churches I have ever attend emphasized that all have sinned and that no one can boast. All the churches I have attended do a lot of charity work. When I visited those cathedrals in Europe, I saw in the anteroom brochures for helping refugees, helping the sick, helping the starving people in the Sudan, etc. What would he have them do? Sell the church and tear it down and build a supermarket? Turn the church over to Disney Corp. and make a cathedral amusement park?? Those cathedrals were mostly constructed hundreds of years ago. I don't see the connection with how the churches function today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I never attend churches where the entire action is on SUnday. All the churches I have ever attend emphasized that all have sinned and that no one can boast. All the churches I have attended do a lot of charity work. When I visited those cathedrals in Europe, I saw in the anteroom brochures for helping refugees, helping the sick, helping the starving people in the Sudan, etc. What would he have them do? Sell the church and tear it down and build a supermarket? Turn the church over to Disney Corp. and make a cathedral amusement park?? Those cathedrals were mostly constructed hundreds of years ago. I don't see the connection with how the churches function today. Building those churches and cathedrals also help put whole communities to work, bring in food and resources, fed and sheltered families, etc. They did take care of the poor, they were centers of education, they provided people to heal the sick, etc. Yes, there were abuses. There are still abuses nowadays...and some happen by those that claim "Jesus, not religion!" Trust me...from having lived in the land of some of the "name it and claim it" people and having helped feed and shelter the homeless. Sorry, but people aren't homeless because "they don't have enough faith". I've seen greater faith amoungst those that have had the least. I do get where the young man in the video is coming from...I just think he has broadbrushed and thrown the baby out with the bathwater. My husband's mother was treated like she had the plague in church because she was divorced (don't you know that divorcee's are after everyone's husband?). Recently, a friend told me of another friend that was refused communion for being divorced...the husband had run off with another woman...yet SHE is denied communion. Yes, we need to actively show Christ. However, people have tried to point at those with the most liturgical traditions and claim that people are "hiding behind" those traditions. No. Wrong. It's not Religion, it's not Traditions...because it happens in churches where there are no Traditions as well. The fault is Man. Some people show Grace and put themselves out there to "love their neighbour" and some do not. This happens amoungst peoples of all faiths and even amoungst Atheists. I've known some wonderful Atheists and some very self centered, judgemental Atheists. It's people...there are the good, the bad, and the ugly amoungst us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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