Annie Laurie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Next year I'll have a 5th and 6th grader. We are currently using WWE and CLE LA. But when I look at the WTM recs for logic stage and think of all we "should" be doing, I don't see how to fit it in. I have avoided CW because it seemed so convoluted to me, but am rethinking it because it looks like it combines vocab, grammar, writing, spelling, and other LA skills all in one program. Is that right? I could skip Vocab from Classical Roots and programs like that if we're using CW? So, my question is, after the learning curve with CW, will it simplify things for us? Or not really? If we don't use CW we will probably use R&S English, WWE, VFCR, something for spelling, etc, etc, and it just seems like so many different programs to juggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Next year I'll have a 5th and 6th grader. We are currently using WWE and CLE LA. But when I look at the WTM recs for logic stage and think of all we "should" be doing, I don't see how to fit it in. I have avoided CW because it seemed so convoluted to me, but am rethinking it because it looks like it combines vocab, grammar, writing, spelling, and other LA skills all in one program. Is that right? I could skip Vocab from Classical Roots and programs like that if we're using CW? So, my question is, after the learning curve with CW, will it simplify things for us? Or not really? If we don't use CW we will probably use R&S English, WWE, VFCR, something for spelling, etc, etc, and it just seems like so many different programs to juggle. Why are you switching from CLE LA to R&S? I think of CLE LA as R&S English in a workbook format. I like CLE LA because it is efficient and covers spelling as well. Juggling CLE LA, WWS, and vocab hasn't been too much for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Next year I'll have a 5th and 6th grader. We are currently using WWE and CLE LA. But when I look at the WTM recs for logic stage and think of all we "should" be doing, I don't see how to fit it in. I have avoided CW because it seemed so convoluted to me, but am rethinking it because it looks like it combines vocab, grammar, writing, spelling, and other LA skills all in one program. Is that right? I could skip Vocab from Classical Roots and programs like that if we're using CW? So, my question is, after the learning curve with CW, will it simplify things for us? Or not really? If we don't use CW we will probably use R&S English, WWE, VFCR, something for spelling, etc, etc, and it just seems like so many different programs to juggle. Would your kids be together in CW? That would probably color my answer. I have 2 kids doing CW; eldest is working through Aesop B and second child just started working on Aesop A. I've never used any of the programs you're currently using (or possiby will use); so, I can't give a 1:1 comparison. My kids work on CW 4 days/week (including the final re-write); but, it's generally only 10-30 minutes (depending on the kid and the prevailing attitude ;) ) per day. We don't use any other LA program, but will add a spelling program for my son because spelling is just not sticking with him. <sigh> If you end up choosing CW I recommend trying to keep your kids together. I think there is an "Older Beginner" level which might work well for you. The CW boards/web site would have more info on that. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Next year I'll have a 5th and 6th grader. We are currently using WWE and CLE LA. But when I look at the WTM recs for logic stage and think of all we "should" be doing, I don't see how to fit it in. I have avoided CW because it seemed so convoluted to me, but am rethinking it because it looks like it combines vocab, grammar, writing, spelling, and other LA skills all in one program. Is that right? I could skip Vocab from Classical Roots and programs like that if we're using CW? So, my question is, after the learning curve with CW, will it simplify things for us? Or not really? If we don't use CW we will probably use R&S English, WWE, VFCR, something for spelling, etc, etc, and it just seems like so many different programs to juggle. I copied this from a post over on the high school board since it is something I am considering. It looks to me like you can take the tutorial at your own pace. That would help lighten your load as far as teaching CW. I have no experience with them, but I thought I'd throw it out there for you to consider, if you think you want to go with CW. "Also CW just reduced the price on their recorded online group tutorials for Aesop and Homer accelerated to $50 for 6 month access." http://www.classicalwritingtutorials...ccelerated.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My answer would depend of a couple of things: 1. How much time is it taking you get through your LA programs now? and 2. What level of CW would you start with, Aesop or Homer? Either option is good as far as academics go ......... I'm partial to CW because I believe it goes more in depth but WWE/WWS are great programs too. What I love about CW is that the way it is set up, it allows flexibility. You can skip lessons, add more practice, etc. with relative ease depending on the understanding of your child; I don't think WWE is presented in a way where lessons can be skipped ...... you could double up, but you're still doing the work which means you still put in the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why are you switching from CLE LA to R&S? I think of CLE LA as R&S English in a workbook format. I like CLE LA because it is efficient and covers spelling as well. Juggling CLE LA, WWS, and vocab hasn't been too much for us... The spiral format drives my kids nuts and the retention is not great. They also expect them to remember a term or grammar rule from several light units ago, without reviewing what it is. R&S would work okay for us because I plan to combine them, teach them the lesson on the whiteboard, and then let them do the assignment on their own. Juggling those things wouldn't be too much for us either if I only had the two kids I'm speaking of in this thread. But I'm homeschooling two other kids, plus have a very high-needs toddler so it's too much for me right now. Would your kids be together in CW? That would probably color my answer. I have 2 kids doing CW; eldest is working through Aesop B and second child just started working on Aesop A. Yes, they'd be together. Thanks for your input! I copied this from a post over on the high school board since it is something I am considering. It looks to me like you can take the tutorial at your own pace. That would help lighten your load as far as teaching CW. I have no experience with them, but I thought I'd throw it out there for you to consider, if you think you want to go with CW. "Also CW just reduced the price on their recorded online group tutorials for Aesop and Homer accelerated to $50 for 6 month access." http://www.classicalwritingtutorials...ccelerated.htm Thank you! I'm definitely considering that. My answer would depend of a couple of things: 1. How much time is it taking you get through your LA programs now? and 2. What level of CW would you start with, Aesop or Homer? Either option is good as far as academics go ......... I'm partial to CW because I believe it goes more in depth but WWE/WWS are great programs too. What I love about CW is that the way it is set up, it allows flexibility. You can skip lessons, add more practice, etc. with relative ease depending on the understanding of your child; I don't think WWE is presented in a way where lessons can be skipped ...... you could double up, but you're still doing the work which means you still put in the time. That's a very good point about the flexibility. We spend an hour on LA now. I know CW can take that long too, but if it accomplishes more in that time than I feel okay about it. Right now, we haven't even tried to work in vocab and aren't doing spelling. I'm considering Homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My kids aren't natural spellers, so I will continue doing a spelling program with them when we move to CW Homer next year. I also plan on having them do a grammar program. However, the grammar & spelling programs will be sharing a block in the schedule. So, grammar twice per week & spelling three times per week. We wouldn't do both grammar and spelling in the same day. ... I do think you can skip lessons in WWE. I think it is set up very much like Homer in that you can continue practicing something that the kid doesn't have yet or you can skip lessons to move onto the next 'skill.' (This becomes clear in the WWE text vs. workbook only.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If you think you hate CW, you're probably going to. Or at least the things that bug you about it aren't going away. Personally, I wouldn't go from WWE + CLE to that huge list of things you said. That's nuts. You need to be more streamlined. It's more important to get things done than it is to have some perfectionist, unrealistic list. WTM never intended that. Like vocab, you don't start vocab till you FINISH SPELLING. It's one or the other. Is CLE working for your kids? I wouldn't change something that is working, just me. If you're dissatisfied with the writing, just add that in. Personally, I like WT (Writing Tales) *way* better than CW. You could do WT and just adding a touch of grammar and spelling. Have you ever thought of a light year from grammar, maybe something like Easy Grammar? Just a light touch is all you need with WT. Did you say your kids need repetition? Shurley is another that you could do with both of them. It has tons of repetition. I'd do the gr. 6 with both of them. If you did Shurley 6 or Easy Grammar and WT2, you'd have a hum-dinger of a grammar/writing combo. And WT is so happy, pleasant, and easy to implement compared to CW. It's CW for idiots. It's mom-friendly. AND it has these marvelous co-op lessons (meant for one day a week) that you can use with your kids. So you work with them for a session once a week and they do all the rest independently, as homework. Can't beat that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name=RootAnn;3498501 However' date=' the grammar & spelling programs will be sharing a block in the schedule. So, grammar twice per week & spelling three times per week. We wouldn't do both grammar and spelling in the same day. ... I do think you can skip lessons in WWE. I think it is set up very much like Homer in that you can continue practicing something that the kid doesn't have yet or you can skip lessons to move onto the next 'skill.' (This becomes clear in the WWE text vs. workbook only.) You really hit on something here. First, I'm terrible about trying to do everything at once, I don't know why, but I can never seem to do one thing a few times a week and another thing on the other days of the week. So, thank you for the reminder that I need to alternate things. And you're right about WWE. My dd is completely bored and I think I need to move her up a level actually. I'm just always afraid of missing something. I will reread the text because we do mostly stick to the workbook now and I think I am forgetting the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you think you hate CW, you're probably going to. Or at least the things that bug you about it aren't going away. Personally, I wouldn't go from WWE + CLE to that huge list of things you said. That's nuts. You need to be more streamlined. It's more important to get things done than it is to have some perfectionist, unrealistic list. WTM never intended that. Like vocab, you don't start vocab till you FINISH SPELLING. It's one or the other. Is CLE working for your kids? I wouldn't change something that is working, just me. If you're dissatisfied with the writing, just add that in. Personally, I like WT (Writing Tales) *way* better than CW. You could do WT and just adding a touch of grammar and spelling. Have you ever thought of a light year from grammar, maybe something like Easy Grammar? Just a light touch is all you need with WT. Did you say your kids need repetition? Shurley is another that you could do with both of them. It has tons of repetition. I'd do the gr. 6 with both of them. If you did Shurley 6 or Easy Grammar and WT2, you'd have a hum-dinger of a grammar/writing combo. And WT is so happy, pleasant, and easy to implement compared to CW. It's CW for idiots. It's mom-friendly. AND it has these marvelous co-op lessons (meant for one day a week) that you can use with your kids. So you work with them for a session once a week and they do all the rest independently, as homework. Can't beat that! Thanks for the reality check. Ironically, I've been so dissatisfied with how our homeschool is going that I've been thinking about trying a more relaxed approach. So I really don't want to do all of that. I guess I was hoping that if I could look at my list and it just said classical writing for all of LA, it would somehow feel more relaxed. I started off unschooling and have moved more and more toward classical, but the joy is gone and I'd like to find a happy medium. I don't know if CLE is working. On the one hand, they have learned grammar rules. On the other hand, a term or rule would come up after several light units, and they wouldn't remember what the term or rule was and the light unit wouldn't remind them. So we'd have to get out old light units to find out. And a lot of it felt like busy work. We've been using it for severel years, because I didn't want to jump around, but I don't know if it's been worth the time for us. My dd is bored with the dictation and narration in WWE. She has specifically asked me for writing assignments, "like creative writing and book reports" and then she wants due dates. So I'm not sure where we will go from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ooo, WT would be great for you then! It's very joyful, has contextualized grammar, and will bring out the creative side in your dd! And if you use it the way I suggested, with the co-op lessons and a once weekly meeting time, she'll have the due dates she wants. Also look up the Mrs. Renz books reports. They're terrific and she's at the perfect age for them. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ooo, WT would be great for you then! It's very joyful, has contextualized grammar, and will bring out the creative side in your dd! And if you use it the way I suggested, with the co-op lessons and a once weekly meeting time, she'll have the due dates she wants. Also look up the Mrs. Renz books reports. They're terrific and she's at the perfect age for them. :) Thanks! Will check those out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 That's a very good point about the flexibility. We spend an hour on LA now. I know CW can take that long too, but if it accomplishes more in that time than I feel okay about it. Right now, we haven't even tried to work in vocab and aren't doing spelling. I'm considering Homer. Given that you're already frustrated, you have other children you're teaching and a toddler, I'm not sure adding CW at this point would make it easier for you. As you know, there is a learning curve with CW and, for a period of time at least, it's teacher intensive. Don't get me wrong, as a program I think CW is one of the best, but the last thing you sound like you need right now is to make yourself feel more overwhelmed. WWE is scripted, to the point, and it gets the job done. It might be best to just stick with it. In regards to the rest of LA, if you don't mind, I can give you a few examples of how we have cut down on the time it takes for the rest. Spelling: I don't use a spelling program. My dd is a good speller; I just choose words that she spells incorrectly in her writing and use that as a list. Grammar: We uses R&S. We do it verbally. If there is a skill that I think she is not getting, I get her to write out every second question in the written exercises, and then she checks her own work after she's finished. Vocabulary: At the beginning of the year, I choose a list of words. Then each week we have Words of the Week. I usually have her do three words per week. Day 1: She copies out first word, looks up & writes the definition and then writes a sentence with that word in it. Day 2 & 3: She does the same for the remaining two words, Day 4: I have her verbally give one sentence each for each of the words, Day 5: Same as day 4. She then has to incorporate 3 words from her vocabulary book into any writing project for the week. I know that three words sound like not much compared to the 10+ words you often see in the vocabulary books, but I make sure the words are high level words and with the intense focus on less words, they really stick; I find my dd now has an excellent vocabulary. Other: Perhaps three times per year we study a book in depth (literary analysis). If I'm under time constraints I will choose a Teaching the Classics teacher guide and we'll study one of their recommended books. Well, have I helped a little? :D In any case, I hope you can finally find a fit for you and your dc! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well, have I helped a little? :D In any case, I hope you can finally find a fit for you and your dc! :001_smile: Thank you! Yes, it was helpful, it helped me come back down to reality about what is reasonable and how to simplify. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggermom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I also agree, you should do Writing Tales before considering Classical Writing. It is fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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