Myra Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is this actually a high school level Chemistry course? Some websites say definitely while others say "for the non-science" person meaning.... Thanks, Myra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My understanding is that Conceptual Chemistry by John Suchoki is equally used as: - college level: Intro to Chemistry, for liberal arts (i.e., non-science) majors - high school level: Chemistry (the first level -- not "advanced chemistry" course) If you have a high school student who will be going to college for a medical field or a chemistry-heavy science field, then you will most likely prefer a more rigorous Chemistry text, OR take an additional Advanced Chemistry course, OR, if using CC, also use a supplement or additional resources which go into more depth especially about chemical equations and practices balancing equations. For most other high school students, CC is a fine overall Chemistry course. Warmly, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Lori, Thanks for the quick reply! I checked the archives earlier and noticed that you used it with one of your kiddos - that's what got me checking into the text in the first place! I am looking ahead for the Fall 2012 for my to-be-then 11th grader. I wanted a solid intro chemistry text, but not a rigorous AP level one. I do plan to supplement the text with TC Chemistry videos and microchem labs. I do notice that the website supports the 4th edition with free videos and worksheets. Usually I get used textbooks so any ideas where I can get an inexpensive one? Thanks, Myra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Lori,Thanks for the quick reply! I checked the archives earlier and noticed that you used it with one of your kiddos - that's what got me checking into the text in the first place! I am looking ahead for the Fall 2012 for my to-be-then 11th grader. I wanted a solid intro chemistry text, but not a rigorous AP level one. I do plan to supplement the text with TC Chemistry videos and microchem labs. I do notice that the website supports the 4th edition with free videos and worksheets. Usually I get used textbooks so any ideas where I can get an inexpensive one? Thanks, Myra I wouldn't consider CC a "solid intro chemistry text". More like "Chemistry Lite". It's also quite expensive unless you buy an older edition used. Have you looked at the CK-12 chemistry material? It's solid, has workbooks and a teacher's edition, and is completely free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What is CK-12, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 From the Wikipedia article: "CK-12 is a non-profit organization based in California founded with the mission to produce free and open source K-12 materials aligned to state curriculum standards and customized to meet student and teacher needs." I'm surprised that so many homeschoolers aren't aware of CK-12. The materials are excellent, at least those I've looked at. They're available in many formats (including as ebooks), include teacher versions, workbooks, etc., and are completely free. You can even slice and dice them to suit yourself. They are also completely secular. http://www.ck12.org/flexbook/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks for sharing -- there's some good stuff here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I wouldn't consider CC a "solid intro chemistry text". More like "Chemistry Lite". It's also quite expensive unless you buy an older edition used. Have you looked at the CK-12 chemistry material? It's solid, has workbooks and a teacher's edition, and is completely free. Not familiar with the CK-12 chemistry, so it's good to know about of other chemistry options, especially more rigorous ones. And *especially* free ones! :) Thanks for sharing this. However, I still stand by my statement that, other than perhaps needing to add in more work with chemical equations, CC is a solid intro to chemistry for high school students, especially who will not be entering medical/science fields. I see two reasons for the the perceived differences in CC and some other chemistry texts. One difference comes from the different presentation style. CC is written in a style and manner that explains concepts with visual imagery and comparisons -- which resonate wells with students who think in liberal arts/literature terms. In contrast, many other high school chemistry texts are written from from a more abstract and math/equation perspective, which are much more likely to connect better with math/logic students. I also see the difference coming in what topics are covered by CC, vs. what topics are covered by other chemistry texts. For example: I did a quick search of the CK-12 of the table of contents and I see it goes much deeper into the topics of ions and formulas, bonds, equations, etc. It does not cover any topics of application of chemistry. So the purpose and perspective of CK-12 is to be more narrowly focused and go deep into the a specific chemistry topics of molecular structure and interactions. CK-12 is a non-integrated science text. In contrast, CC covers those similar topics of chemical structure, but in much less depth. However, CC also includes chapters on application: the chemistry within cells, the chemistry of drugs, chemistry within plants, use of chemistry in industry to create new materials, chemistry in the water cycle, chemistry and energy resources, etc. The purpose and perspective of CC is to give a more general exposure to not only molecular structure, but also how chemistry works in other fields of science. CC has more of an integrated science approach. Just my 2 cents worth! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think it is too recent an edition for there to be any other cheaper options. I think your choices are either pay a lot money-wise, OR, time-wise: 1. Rent the text for about half price; however you only get it for 1 semester. So you really push time-wise and get it done in half the time. 2. Consider it an investment, and resell as soon as you're finished; you would probably be able to get about 2/3 or a little more of original purchase price back. So you pay money-wise up front, and hopefully make back some of that money at the back end. 3. Consider using a much cheaper 2nd ed. (c. 2004) or 3rd ed. (c. 2006) (about $15 shipped from Amazon used books), and then you do a lot of work to match up the website videos and worksheets -- in a completely different order for the 4th ed. So you invest time-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Not familiar with the CK-12 chemistry, so it's good to know about of other chemistry options, especially more rigorous ones. And *especially* free ones! :) Thanks for sharing this. However, I still stand by my statement that, other than perhaps needing to add in more work with chemical equations, CC is a solid intro to chemistry for high school students, especially who will not be entering medical/science fields. I see two reasons for the the perceived differences in CC and some other chemistry texts. One difference comes from the different presentation style. CC is written in a style and manner that explains concepts with visual imagery and comparisons -- which resonate wells with students who think in liberal arts/literature terms. In contrast, many other high school chemistry texts are written from from a more abstract and math/equation perspective, which are much more likely to connect better with math/logic students. I also see the difference coming in what topics are covered by CC, vs. what topics are covered by other chemistry texts. For example: I did a quick search of the CK-12 of the table of contents and I see it goes much deeper into the topics of ions and formulas, bonds, equations, etc. It does not cover any topics of application of chemistry. So the purpose and perspective of CK-12 is to be more narrowly focused and go deep into the a specific chemistry topics of molecular structure and interactions. CK-12 is a non-integrated science text. In contrast, CC covers those similar topics of chemical structure, but in much less depth. However, CC also includes chapters on application: the chemistry within cells, the chemistry of drugs, chemistry within plants, use of chemistry in industry to create new materials, chemistry in the water cycle, chemistry and energy resources, etc. The purpose and perspective of CC is to give a more general exposure to not only molecular structure, but also how chemistry works in other fields of science. CC has more of an integrated science approach. Just my 2 cents worth! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Well, as I said, it's "chemistry lite". As you say, it might be suitable for students who will pursue non-STEM college majors, but I'm concerned that it really does ignore or skip much too lightly over a lot of really crucial stuff. I should add that I'm going from what I saw in a used copy of the edition immediately prior to the current one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Is this the same as K-12? I've never heard it called "CK"-12 before.... The programming originally developed by Bennett, et al? If so, we do know about it, but thanks for the clarification.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Oops, I've already answered my own question. I guess it's not the same. This info looks interesting and I haven't ever heard of it before. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilary in MI Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Here is John Suchocki's answer (the author of Conceptual Chemistry): http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253084&highlight=suchocki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thank you for posting the author's answer link. It was quite informative. Myra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajudy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 My daughter used Conceptual Chemistry when the first edition came out, and loved it! The author made chemistry so interesting that it quickly became her favorite subject. She went on to college as a pre Med major, got straight A's in her chemistry classes there, and subsequently went to medical school. She is now a physician. CC can be a good choice for science minded high schoolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolkitty Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Not familiar with the CK-12 chemistry, so it's good to know about of other chemistry options, especially more rigorous ones. And *especially* free ones! :) Thanks for sharing this. However, I still stand by my statement that, other than perhaps needing to add in more work with chemical equations, CC is a solid intro to chemistry for high school students, especially who will not be entering medical/science fields. I see two reasons for the the perceived differences in CC and some other chemistry texts. One difference comes from the different presentation style. CC is written in a style and manner that explains concepts with visual imagery and comparisons -- which resonate wells with students who think in liberal arts/literature terms. In contrast, many other high school chemistry texts are written from from a more abstract and math/equation perspective, which are much more likely to connect better with math/logic students. I also see the difference coming in what topics are covered by CC, vs. what topics are covered by other chemistry texts. For example: I did a quick search of the CK-12 of the table of contents and I see it goes much deeper into the topics of ions and formulas, bonds, equations, etc. It does not cover any topics of application of chemistry. So the purpose and perspective of CK-12 is to be more narrowly focused and go deep into the a specific chemistry topics of molecular structure and interactions. CK-12 is a non-integrated science text. In contrast, CC covers those similar topics of chemical structure, but in much less depth. However, CC also includes chapters on application: the chemistry within cells, the chemistry of drugs, chemistry within plants, use of chemistry in industry to create new materials, chemistry in the water cycle, chemistry and energy resources, etc. The purpose and perspective of CC is to give a more general exposure to not only molecular structure, but also how chemistry works in other fields of science. CC has more of an integrated science approach. Just my 2 cents worth! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Hi, I am teaching Chemistry to or CoOp and my spouce teaches Chemistry at the local PS. Conceptual Chemistry is a PS course. it is NOT Math Based. It is for students that are not going to go to college or majors will be non science. It makes math easy math examples. It covers all the subjects but it does not have the true meat of Chemistry. an jump from this class to an advance Chemistry would be really tough on the student, unless it is the only class. I suggest to take Algebra two and be done with it, or at least have finished logarithms and then start Chemistry. Chemistry is not hard, it is the Math that makes it difficult. You can, in my opinion jump from CC to Organic Chemistry basics. as you don't need math for the beginings of that topic. and it would be more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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