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Something is bothering me and I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm happy for him and his success, but this 3:16 hysteria feels wrong somehow. :confused:

Someone posted on friends FB that God was honoring Tebow, because of his devotion. This doesn't sit right with me.

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

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I think it's one of those providential serendipity things (my friend came up with that term). Do I believe that God really made the numbers work out that way for that reason? No. Do I think it's kind of cool? Yes. It wouldn't be such a big deal if everyone else didn't make a big deal about it. He's a Christian, and the real deal. He actually lives out what he believes. I can respect that.

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We love Tebow here and really admire his faith. That being said it really ticks my pastor off when people act like God made the Broncos/Gators win because of Tim Tebow. I think he is a very talented young athlete and I appreciate the way he stands up for what he believes in. He prays that he will do his best in every game. He's not a sore loser either. He's very encouraging and upbeat. There's a verse in the Bible that says whatever you do do it for the glory of God. I think that's his thing.

He does share his faith because it's important to him. It's a real part of who he is. I've met his mother at some homeschool conventions and that same love of God just kind of radiates from her.

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We love Tebow here and really admire his faith. That being said it really ticks my pastor off when people act like God made the Broncos/Gators win because of Tim Tebow. I think he is a very talented young athlete and I appreciate the way he stands up for what he believes in. He prays that he will do his best in every game. He's not a sore loser either. He's very encouraging and upbeat. There's a verse in the Bible that says whatever you do do it for the glory of God. I think that's his thing.

He does share his faith because it's important to him. It's a real part of who he is. I've met his mother at some homeschool conventions and that same love of God just kind of radiates from her.

 

I've read that stuff like the bolded doesn't come from Tim Tebow himself. (Which makes me glad)

Edited by happi duck
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I think it's important to remember that a lot of what we see and hear is from other people not Tebow himself. I downloaded a Podcast from Steve Viars that I thought gave a good perspective on the Tebow situation. Basically it's not a bad thing to be known for praying when you have struggles or successes. The rest of what we see and hear has a lot to do with people being overly excited and hindsight. I believe God is way more concerned about how we behave when we win or lose that the actual outcome.

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I think it's important to remember that a lot of what we see and hear is from other people not Tebow himself. I downloaded a Podcast from Steve Viars that I thought gave a good perspective on the Tebow situation. Basically it's not a bad thing to be known for praying when you have struggles or successes. The rest of what we see and hear has a lot to do with people being overly excited and hindsight. I believe God is way more concerned about how we behave when we win or lose that the actual outcome.

 

:iagree:

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In my opinion, I think that the most important thing is that millions of people are being exposed to the Gospel. Googles tracking a few years ago with his name and John 3:16 being searched together after a game had something like 4 million hits (sorry for the not totally accurate data). I think it is really inspiring and special.

 

I guess I feel like who cares how people analyze it or what people think is or is not happening because of his faith on the field. All the glory goes to God and the more that get the opportunity to potentially be exposed to His saving grace and love through Tebow than Amen!

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My question is, what has God got against the Christians on the other teams? Tebow doesn't bother me but it is not proof that God exists each time he is successful or even indicative of God's love for him no matter what his fans or his detractors claim. Just a stupid game!

 

:iagree: I don't think God cares much about football, really, except to want people to play fairly....

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In my opinion, I think that the most important thing is that millions of people are being exposed to the Gospel. Googles tracking a few years ago with his name and John 3:16 being searched together after a game had something like 4 million hits (sorry for the not totally accurate data). I think it is really inspiring and special.

 

I guess I feel like who cares how people analyze it or what people think is or is not happening because of his faith on the field. All the glory goes to God and the more that get the opportunity to potentially be exposed to His saving grace and love through Tebow than Amen!

 

Actually, this is the crux of my struggle. The non-christians I know are not amused by. A God who rewards public fawning with worldly wealth and fame. Seems very egocentric of God. Why reward a football player and not a relief worker?

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Actually, this is the crux of my struggle. The non-christians I know are not amused by. A God who rewards public fawning with worldly wealth and fame. Seems very egocentric of God. Why reward a football player and not a relief worker?

 

Thanks for putting a finger on what bugs me about the whole thing. I'm a Christian, but I'm not a fan of public displays like Tebow's. Surely God cares more about humanitarian works or the millions of people on this planet in truly desperate situations. Football just doesn't rank highly on the list of Important Things to Ask God.

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Thanks for putting a finger on what bugs me about the whole thing. I'm a Christian, but I'm not a fan of public displays like Tebow's. Surely God cares more about humanitarian works or the millions of people on this planet in truly desperate situations. Football just doesn't rank highly on the list of Important Things to Ask God.

 

I've read a lot of articles that talk about some of the humanitarian things Tim Tebow has done. I think he is a very stand up guy who just happens to be a good football player. :)

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Actually, this is the crux of my struggle. The non-christians I know are not amused by. A God who rewards public fawning with worldly wealth and fame. Seems very egocentric of God. Why reward a football player and not a relief worker?

 

Yeah, it really seems to give fuel to those who espouse the -- what is it called? -- prosperity gospel. At least those inclined to use Tebow and his public display of faith during a game as some sort of "proof".

 

Thanks for putting a finger on what bugs me about the whole thing. I'm a Christian, but I'm not a fan of public displays like Tebow's. Surely God cares more about humanitarian works or the millions of people on this planet in truly desperate situations. Football just doesn't rank highly on the list of Important Things to Ask God.

 

:iagree: I've failed to find any verse which gives any clue to which sports team God follows.

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I've read a lot of articles that talk about some of the humanitarian things Tim Tebow has done. I think he is a very stand up guy who just happens to be a good football player. :)

 

But why the focus on praying to win a football game rather than praying to help needy people? That's what is just off for me....

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My question is, what has God got against the Christians on the other teams? Tebow doesn't bother me but it is not proof that God exists each time he is successful or even indicative of God's love for him no matter what his fans or his detractors claim. Just a stupid game!

 

Very good point...:iagree:

:iagree: I don't think God cares much about football, really, except to want people to play fairly....

 

:iagree:

 

Actually, this is the crux of my struggle. The non-christians I know are not amused by. A God who rewards public fawning with worldly wealth and fame. Seems very egocentric of God. Why reward a football player and not a relief worker?

 

All things work out for the good of those who love God is what the Bible says...God can and does reward them both...Money and fame is not necessarily a reward...Peace throughout life's struggles is the greatest reward during your lifetime...Money and fame has never brought anyone peace...

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But why the focus on praying to win a football game rather than praying to help needy people? That's what is just off for me....

 

It's the "God as Magic Genie" thinking - it bothers me a lot too (but as an agnostic maybe I don't really have a dog in this fight?). But yeah. You pray for something and God just gives it to you, right?? That's what supposed to happen. And if you rub this lamp, all your dishes will be done. Poof!

 

This idea that prayer leads to a winning sports team means that either one team prayed less? Or is it just that the other team prayed REALLY HARD and REALLY FAITHFULLY too, but the answer to their prayers was, "no."

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But why the focus on praying to win a football game rather than praying to help needy people? That's what is just off for me....

 

Maybe he prays for the game while at the game, and prays for people in need when he is home or elsewhere...Football is his job, so he is praying to be his best at work :001_smile:

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I'm a Christian, but I'm not a fan of public displays like Tebow's.

 

Jesus warned about the Pharisees who went around publicly praying and letting everyone know about their tithing and fasting in order to look good. He said they already had their reward in full. He told people not to be like them, but to close the door and pray in secret.

 

I don't follow football, but if he's being overly public about all this, then maybe the above is why it bugs you.

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It's the "God as Magic Genie" thinking - it bothers me a lot too (but as an agnostic maybe I don't really have a dog in this fight?). But yeah. You pray for something and God just gives it to you, right?? That's what supposed to happen. And if you rub this lamp, all your dishes will be done. Poof!

 

This idea that prayer leads to a winning sports team means that either one team prayed less? Or is it just that the other team prayed REALLY HARD and REALLY FAITHFULLY too, but the answer to their prayers was, "no."

 

I understand what you are saying, and I am a Christian...I find it difficult to pray for the outcome of things...I still do it sometimes, but I try and focus my prayers on myself and my behavior...God is not a genie...You can be praying for something and someone else is praying against what you want, ie. two people praying for the same job...I tend to pray that I will be able to correctly handle whatever situation comes my way...It is hard for me to believe that football games, or anything like that, is won by prayer...I would pray that I do my best, and whatever happens is what happens...

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Actually, this is the crux of my struggle. The non-christians I know are not amused by. A God who rewards public fawning with worldly wealth and fame. Seems very egocentric of God. Why reward a football player and not a relief worker?

 

But how here in our earthly life do we know that he is being rewarded for his football playing? That is why I think we should not sit back and place judgement or criticism. It is not about winning football but winning Christ followers!

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Actually, this is the crux of my struggle. The non-christians I know are not amused by. A God who rewards public fawning with worldly wealth and fame. Seems very egocentric of God. Why reward a football player and not a relief worker?

 

 

Yes. Not amused or impressed in the slightest. There is nothing in it to make me or any non-Christian I know give even a remote consideration to the gospel. It's football, not anything of any importance to humanity, spirituality or universality. The public displays and fanatical fawning are not inspiring. They're scoff-worthy, at best.

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Yes. Not amused or impressed in the slightest. There is nothing in it to make me or any non-Christian I know give even a remote consideration to the gospel. It's football, not anything of any importance to humanity, spirituality or universality. It's not inspiring. It's scoff-worthy, at best.

 

:iagree:

 

It puts me in mind of the Tim Minchin song "Thank You God" (which I can no longer find on YouTube).

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Yes. Not amused or impressed in the slightest. There is nothing in it to make me or any non-Christian I know give even a remote consideration to the gospel. It's football, not anything of any importance to humanity, spirituality or universality. The public displays and fanatical fawning are not inspiring. They're scoff-worthy, at best.

 

I totally agree. It was one of the factors that kept me from exploring Christianity. I wanted no part of it if those were the beliefs and if that's how you had to behave. As a Christian whose religion would never worship or belittle God that way, it makes me pretty sick and upset actually.

 

And as far as the 3:16 thing, what is the significance in sports? Are they saying that the certain person IS Gods begotten son? It's always confused me. I remember when they would put up the 3:16 signs for Steve Austin in WWF when my brother used to watch.

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I think it's one of those providential serendipity things (my friend came up with that term). Do I believe that God really made the numbers work out that way for that reason? No. Do I think it's kind of cool? Yes. It wouldn't be such a big deal if everyone else didn't make a big deal about it. He's a Christian, and the real deal. He actually lives out what he believes. I can respect that.

 

:iagree:

 

But why the focus on praying to win a football game rather than praying to help needy people? That's what is just off for me....

 

Just because he prays about the football game doesn't mean he never prays for other things too. I pray for things sometimes that would seem insignificant to others, that doesn't mean I never pray for the needs of others.

 

Very good point...:iagree:

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

All things work out for the good of those who love God is what the Bible says...God can and does reward them both...Money and fame is not necessarily a reward...Peace throughout life's struggles is the greatest reward during your lifetime...Money and fame has never brought anyone peace...

 

Amen! :)

 

Jesus warned about the Pharisees who went around publicly praying and letting everyone know about their tithing and fasting in order to look good. He said they already had their reward in full. He told people not to be like them, but to close the door and pray in secret.

 

I don't follow football, but if he's being overly public about all this, then maybe the above is why it bugs you.

 

I'm not really sure I think HE is being overly public about it. I think it's the media, fans, etc., that are making it a big deal. Bowing your head in public doesn't make you a Pharisee. Drawing attention to yourself for attention's sake while you do DOES. I don't get that impression at all from Tebow.

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I blame the media for stirring up the issue. Tebow has done what he does for a long time. When he's a "winner," the media makes issue of his religion. When he's a "loser," the media makes issue of his religion. The media wants stories, so they look for something to make people laugh, scoff, debate, argue, etc. They want to sell stories.

 

I like Tebow. I think he's an honorable young man who is sometimes a good football player. He's young, and he's learning. I think it's silly to say God is rewarding his faith by letting the Broncos win. They are playing a game. I don't think God cares who wins, but I do think he cares about the hearts of the players.

 

(As for teams, I don't think God likes the Giants or the Lions, from some OT stories.):D

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I am not a big fan of any overly demonstrative displays of faith ... I tend to be much more private in my own faith (except at Mass ... I have no problem joining in with everyone else). That said, I really appreciated Fr. James Martin's take on the Tebow issue. Though from what I read, it seems Tim Tebow is very sincere in his faith, to me it seems as "in your face" as any other public display by athletes/rockstars/etc. They feel insincere given the venue and audience.

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I just regard it as funny.

He seems like a decent, upstanding young man. How many people his age would handle celebrity perfectly? I think that he is doing pretty well at that, and that that makes him a good role model.

 

I know that there are some things about him that are being bandied about--homeschooled, Christian, praying in public (great action shot, LOL), and recently someone told me that his mom considered abortion for some reason. But that all just strikes me as typical celebrity culture kind of stuff, and I am very good at ignoring that. It's so profoundly and deeply unimportant to me!

 

But I hope that he keeps his head and saves his money (since football careers are notoriously short) and doesn't go the debauched way of so many celebs, especially sportsmen. I hope that he doesn't, IOW, get spoiled by his success as seems more the rule than the exception these days. I hope that he can be a consistently good example to kids who respect him at this point. (Trying hard not to mention some obvious counterexamples. Succeeded. Whew, that was close.)

 

I'm glad he's Christian, in the sense that I'm glad when anybody is. That's all.

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I think the kneeling in prayer is generally occurring after something good happens and it is a prayer of thankfulness. I don't seeing anything wrong with praying for success on the football field. I pray for my husband and i to have success in our business. I think God expects us to glorify Him whether or not that prayer is answered in a way that we would have chosen or not. I'm sure Tebow does that but it's not really the focus of the whole "tebowing" thing the media picked up on. I believe that's what he does during the celebration of a successful play.

 

I also think that there is a segment of the non-believing poplulation that is going to dislike most everything the guy does because he talks openly about his faith in the media. There is a difference between a person who is watching who is still figuring out what they believe and a person who has already made a decision not to believe. I think there is a chance the first group could be positively influenced by his example.

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But how here in our earthly life do we know that he is being rewarded for his football playing? That is why I think we should not sit back and place judgement or criticism. It is not about winning football but winning Christ followers!

 

No, this was something someone told me on FB. I questioned something along the lines of, "What about the other Christian atheletes?" and their response was, "God is cheering those that honor him and Tebow played his best game in his NFL career today."

 

I will be honest I have never payed any attention to TT, but what is fans are saying concerns and confuses me. :confused:

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Actually, this is the crux of my struggle. The non-christians I know are not amused by. A God who rewards public fawning with worldly wealth and fame. Seems very egocentric of God. Why reward a football player and not a relief worker?

 

As a non Christian myself, I just find it amusing that people are getting all worked up about the 316 thing. I find that numbers come in funny way lots of times but that's just people making connections between 2 totally different things. That's just human nature...like seeing faces in abstract places.

 

As for being exposed to the Gospel, it goes in one ear and right out the other. I simply admire Tebow for his athletic skill and for the fact that he's a good role model for young boys. So far he's demonstrating that you can be in the spotlight without doing drugs, hanging out in strip bars, texting women pics of private parts, or terrorizing dogs. That makes him A-OK in my book.

Edited by slr1765
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As a non Christian myself, I just find it amusing that people are getting all worked up about the 316 thing. I find that numbers come in funny way lots of times but that's just people making connections between 2 totally different things. That's just human nature...like seeing faces in abstract places.

 

 

 

Is there a specific "316" thing people are referring to, other than the scripture?

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Troy Polamalu is also a Christian - they clearly showed him praying during the game last night. Except he was on the losing team. :tongue_smilie: Maybe he doesn't pray right.

 

Actually, this was exactly what I brought up on fb. Then the person responded with the whole "God honoroning Tebow" thing.:glare: He was being very specific that God was honoring TT over Palamalu. It just turned my stomach.

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Actually, this was exactly what I brought up on fb. Then the person responded with the whole "God honoroning Tebow" thing.:glare: He was being very specific that God was honoring TT over Palamalu. It just turned my stomach.

 

Yeah, I don't think God is "honoring" TT over Palamalu...I don't think God picks a person to win or lose based on your "performance"...It is a game, not a testament of anyone's faith or lack thereof...If you play better, you will win, and in this case, there is an entire team of people playing, not man against man...I like Tim Tebow and Troy Palamalu :D...And God loves them both, along with everyone else...

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If you have followed TT, then you know that he is not an "in your face" type of player. We followed him through high school, college, and now the pros. He has a sense of humility about his skills and life in general. I think that the sad thing in all of this is that he never fueled it. This is by commentators, media, etc. that want to sensationalize it. It's been disappointing listening to the negative comments made about him in the media as of late. Maybe he needs to go out, assault somebody, fire a gun in a crowded place, or some other noteworthy nefarious act and then he'll be accepted as an appropriate role model by the media. :glare:

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The thing that is irritating with Tebow is that he is making a scene out of his praying. He isn't praying in private he is doing this:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzioQrFg2xxvPI5W4zqfvcpsc_2NUO-AzR5_p_JgBOmtTy1q9m04GicNqxeA

 

Really - is this how you pray all the time? Is this how he prays all the time? It seems like he is saying "Hey everybody, look at me, look how great of a Christian I am" He is making a spectacle of himself.

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If you have followed TT, then you know that he is not an "in your face" type of player. We followed him through high school, college, and now the pros. He has a sense of humility about his skills and life in general. I think that the sad thing in all of this is that he never fueled it. This is by commentators, media, etc. that want to sensationalize it. It's been disappointing listening to the negative comments made about him in the media as of late. Maybe he needs to go out, assault somebody, fire a gun in a crowded place, or some other noteworthy nefarious act and then he'll be accepted as an appropriate role model by the media. :glare:

 

:iagree:

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The thing that is irritating with Tebow is that he is making a scene out of his praying. He isn't praying in private he is doing this:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzioQrFg2xxvPI5W4zqfvcpsc_2NUO-AzR5_p_JgBOmtTy1q9m04GicNqxeA

 

Really - is this how you pray all the time? Is this how he prays all the time? It seems like he is saying "Hey everybody, look at me, look how great of a Christian I am" He is making a spectacle of himself.

 

I don't know, but I would take that over being afraid to pray in public...I know Christians who won't even thank God for their food in public because people are watching them...

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I don't know, but I would take that over being afraid to pray in public...I know Christians who won't even thank God for their food in public because people are watching them...

 

You can pray in your head/heart though. It's not like praying while standing (or sitting) makes a prayer invalid.

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The thing that is irritating with Tebow is that he is making a scene out of his praying. He isn't praying in private he is doing this:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzioQrFg2xxvPI5W4zqfvcpsc_2NUO-AzR5_p_JgBOmtTy1q9m04GicNqxeA

 

Really - is this how you pray all the time? Is this how he prays all the time? It seems like he is saying "Hey everybody, look at me, look how great of a Christian I am" He is making a spectacle of himself.

 

Is this how you feel about all athletes who take a knee during or after an event? I've seen many do the same thing but the media is all over Tebow every time. I do think the media and some fans have gone too far with the religious aspect but I don't fault any player for taking a knee and praying in public.

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