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singapore math questions


kathymuggle
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I am looking at buying 3A for my youngest (which is where she places on the placement test). We have never used Singapore before, but I have read good stuff, and frankly (for various reasons) we could use a curriculum.

 

Specific questions:

 

Do I need to get both the textbook and workbook at this stage? (I am on the frugal side). I am pretty confident in my ability to explain the math at this age.... What is in each book?

 

What is the difference between Standard and US edition?

 

I might get word problems - anyone get these and what did you think?

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At the bare minimum, you need the text and either workbook or IP book. The text itself generally doesn't provide quite enough problems, and if you are new to the Singapore method, it may be a little too early to start making up your own problems yet; they use a pretty specific pattern.

 

My son is pretty good at math, and prefers the IP book to the workbook; the workbook bores him fast.

 

You do need the text, as that is where their method is explained, and they do do things a bit differently; it is worthwhile to see their thought process and use it. I have read through the home instructor's guides, but don't use them much. I am in a minority in that opinion.

 

IMHO there is not much difference between Standards and US given that I don't need the HIG (many people complain about the US HIG). There are a few topics that are either later or absent from US such as negative numbers, but I teach that on my own with no problem, so not an issue for me. The Standards edition was created to conform to Californa state standards.

 

I think there is more color in the Standards edition after level 3?

 

They are both goid and will get your child where he or she needs to go.

 

Hope that helps.

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We use the standards edition. I would suggest that you get the Home Instructor's Guide, the textbook and the workbook at the very least. We also use the Intensive Practice Books (one semester behind) and the challenging word problems book (one year behind).

 

If you are wanting to be more frugal, you could look at math mammoth instead which is much more economical and does cover the same subjects and methods as Singapore Math.

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Yes, you need the tb and wb and to get the true depth of the program at least the CWP. We also add in the IP because I love the rigor. But I skip the HIG because I've read enough about the method to explain the approach myself and also am frugal. Oh, and we have the US editions.

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We use the standards edition. I would suggest that you get the Home Instructor's Guide, the textbook and the workbook at the very least. We also use the Intensive Practice Books (one semester behind) and the challenging word problems book (one year behind).

 

If you are wanting to be more frugal, you could look at math mammoth instead which is much more economical and does cover the same subjects and methods as Singapore Math.

 

:iagree:

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I find Singapore a bit confusing with all the various books/guides. So if you don't use the Teacher's Guides or the Home Guides do you simply teach from the student's text itself?

 

Thanks,

 

Yep. Plus this book is geared towards teaching teachers how to teach the SM textbooks, so purchasing this once instead of alllllll of the HIGs is a lot cheaper.

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I find Singapore a bit confusing with all the various books/guides. So if you don't use the Teacher's Guides or the Home Guides do you simply teach from the student's text itself?

 

Thanks,

Some kids just get it and don't need the instruction and scaffolding activities provided in the HIG. These kids won't need much in the way of instruction period. However, (at least in the US edition) the HIGs also contain some mental math techniques and divisibility trips not found in the text. I presume the book zoo_keeper linked does the same.
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We just use the textbook and workbook. My kids don't like the IP book (because it's not in color and maybe because it's not organized in the same way as the workbook -- so there's not a clear stopping point). We use Fan-Math (I-excel) word problem books on level instead of CWP... but only when I feel like it. 90% of the time it's just textbook and workbook.

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If your child has never done Singapore, I recommend you spend a little time reviewing and working on mental math strategies (making tens, estimating answers). After using Everyday Math in ps, ds started in 2B and it took time for him to adjust his thinking. We worked over the summer and now he's fine. However, he was very frustrated at the beginning because he'd never used mental math before.

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Frankly, I find the way Singapore teaches multi-digit multiplication and long division in 3A to be *HORRIBLE*. Even with the HIG, I struggled with trying to explain it to my DD. I can't imagine trying to teach it without the HIG.

 

If money is really tight, I would suggest MM instead of Singapore. You can download the single-topic "blue" worktexts very inexpensively and they have MUCH better explanations than even the Singapore HIG's.

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Frankly, I find the way Singapore teaches multi-digit multiplication and long division in 3A to be *HORRIBLE*. Even with the HIG, I struggled with trying to explain it to my DD. I can't imagine trying to teach it without the HIG.

 

If money is really tight, I would suggest MM instead of Singapore. You can download the single-topic "blue" worktexts very inexpensively and they have MUCH better explanations than even the Singapore HIG's.

 

Would you consider MM as rigorous scholastically as Singapore in preparing kids for challenging secondary math programs such as AoPS? Does it teach problem solving skills well in addition to the mechanics? Do you suppliment with word problems also? That is my concern with our current curriculum (MUS) for our kiddos.

 

Thanks,

Edited by dereksurfs
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Would you consider MM as rigorous scholastically as Singapore in preparing kids for challenging secondary math programs such as AoPS? Does it teach problem solving skills well in addition to the mechanics? Do you suppliment with word problems also? That is my concern with our current curriculum (MUS) for our kiddos.

 

Thanks,

 

The MM "blue" worktexts seem to be similar in challenge level to the Singapore text/wb combo, though more incremental. Singapore has a tendency to skip straight from A->D while MM walks the student through A->B->C->D. A child who is intuitively "mathy" might find this kind of "baby-stepping" unnecessary and boring, but my DD gets frustrated with some of the leaps in Singapore. That's why I supplement in certain places with MM "blue".

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The MM "blue" worktexts seem to be similar in challenge level to the Singapore text/wb combo, though more incremental. Singapore has a tendency to skip straight from A->D while MM walks the student through A->B->C->D. A child who is intuitively "mathy" might find this kind of "baby-stepping" unnecessary and boring, but my DD gets frustrated with some of the leaps in Singapore. That's why I supplement in certain places with MM "blue".

 

But the SM wb/tb are the easiest parts of the program. So if that's the case, then no - MM wouldn't yield the same level of rigor.

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But the SM wb/tb are the easiest parts of the program. So if that's the case, then no - MM wouldn't yield the same level of rigor.

While I understand your point, Crimson Wife's comparison is still very helpful for me. From what I've read not everyone who does SM adds in the IP & CWP. While on the other hand folks who use other programs such as MM may add supplimetals such as IP & CWP to increase rigor and practice. I actually just purchased these to add to our current spine - MuS. Although the core of MuS I don't think is at the same level as these others, which is also why I'm exploring the other programs.

Edited by dereksurfs
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But the SM wb/tb are the easiest parts of the program. So if that's the case, then no - MM wouldn't yield the same level of rigor.

 

You can easily use MM with IP and CWP. I did when I was using MM (and it was a great way to go for my accelerated son, because buying 4 years of Singapore for one calendar year would have been financially painful ;) ).

 

We just hopped into Singapore 4A from MM4A (and a bit of 4B to cover long division real quick, since that's in Singapore 3A), and my son has found it easy so far. Of course, he's been doing IP and CWP all along. The MM problems are similar to the *regular* IP and CWP problems, but the "Take the Challenge" problems in those books are more than you'll see in MM.

 

But yes, I believe MM can absolutely take you to AoPS if your child is AoPS material.

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Would you consider MM as rigorous scholastically as Singapore in preparing kids for challenging secondary math programs such as AoPS? Does it teach problem solving skills well in addition to the mechanics? Do you suppliment with word problems also? That is my concern with our current curriculum (MUS) for our kiddos.

 

Thanks,

 

FWIW, my dd10 started AoPS Prealgebra after finishing MM 5B, and has been doing ok and I feel she was well prepared as far as math goes. Her age is another matter - AoPS is very intense - she is in ch 5, though if she can get through this, the next few chapters appear to be more familiar topics. I may decide to downshift to MM 6, finish that up first, and then pick up Prealgebra again in a few months, for a number of reasons (there is additional material covered in MM 6 that I'd like her to have under her belt in the event that she attends a school next year, but it wasn't necessary to start AoPS; the decision is complicated by the fact that there is a math placement test for the school in May - long story).

 

MM has loads of word problems. I haven't seen CWP and IP, but it makes sense that they would be more challenging. Also, my recollection - someone please correct me if I am mistaken - is that there are levels of word problems within the CWP, "regular" problems and the super-extra-challenging problems, the latter obviously being more challenging than MM but I'm not sure about comparing the "regular" CWP problems to MM word problems (see, e.g., this post). You might be interested in this thread, Math Mammoth : Is it as rigorous as Singapore? There's level of challenge, and there are also slight scope and sequence differences around grades 4-5 to consider.

 

ETA, and here comes boscopup, after I took pains to find her old post :lol:

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Goodness, I wasn't asserting that MM wasn't a solid program and that its students wouldn't be prepared for AoPS. I was responding to the first part of the question below...

 

Would you consider MM as rigorous scholastically as Singapore in preparing kids for challenging secondary math programs such as AoPS?

 

regarding the rigor of SM compared to MM. If, as CrimsonWife suggests, that MM is on par with SM's wb/tb (which I think is the bare bones of the curriculum) then I don't think that MM (by itself, supplementing MM with SM wasn't part of the question) offers the same rigor.

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You can easily use MM with IP and CWP. I did when I was using MM (and it was a great way to go for my accelerated son, because buying 4 years of Singapore for one calendar year would have been financially painful ;) ).

 

We just hopped into Singapore 4A from MM4A (and a bit of 4B to cover long division real quick, since that's in Singapore 3A), and my son has found it easy so far. Of course, he's been doing IP and CWP all along. The MM problems are similar to the *regular* IP and CWP problems, but the "Take the Challenge" problems in those books are more than you'll see in MM.

 

But yes, I believe MM can absolutely take you to AoPS if your child is AoPS material.

 

Boscopup, thank you for sharing your experience which is one of the reasons I love reading this forum. Would you mind sharing with me why you are switching form MM to Singapore since its sounds like MM + IP and CWP has worked well for your family thus far? Just curious.

 

Thanks again,

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FWIW, my dd10 started AoPS Prealgebra after finishing MM 5B, and has been doing ok and I feel she was well prepared as far as math goes. Her age is another matter - AoPS is very intense - she is in ch 5, though if she can get through this, the next few chapters appear to be more familiar topics. I may decide to downshift to MM 6, finish that up first, and then pick up Prealgebra again in a few months, for a number of reasons (there is additional material covered in MM 6 that I'd like her to have under her belt in the event that she attends a school next year, but it wasn't necessary to start AoPS; the decision is complicated by the fact that there is a math placement test for the school in May - long story).

 

MM has loads of word problems. I haven't seen CWP and IP, but it makes sense that they would be more challenging. Also, my recollection - someone please correct me if I am mistaken - is that there are levels of word problems within the CWP, "regular" problems and the super-extra-challenging problems, the latter obviously being more challenging than MM but I'm not sure about comparing the "regular" CWP problems to MM word problems (see, e.g., this post). You might be interested in this thread, Math Mammoth : Is it as rigorous as Singapore? There's level of challenge, and there are also slight scope and sequence differences around grades 4-5 to consider.

 

ETA, and here comes boscopup, after I took pains to find her old post :lol:

 

All very helpful information! Thank you wapiti. :D Your experience with AoPS gives me food for thought regarding ds10. I'm targeting AoPS Pre-Algebra for his 6th grade year. But we'll see. I hear its not for everyone. Every child learns differently. If AoPS doesn't work out we may try Derek Owens, Lial, etc.. But in the meantime I want to give him adequate time to prepare and firm up his math fundamentals.

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All very helpful information! Thank you wapiti. :D Your experience with AoPS gives me food for thought regarding ds10. I'm targeting AoPS Pre-Algebra for his 6th grade year. But we'll see. I hear its not for everyone. Every child learns differently. If AoPS doesn't work out we may try Derek Owens, Lial, etc.. But in the meantime I want to give him adequate time to prepare and firm up his math fundamentals.

 

Absolutely, every child learns differently. I can't wait for my ds to try AoPS Prealgebra, because I think he'll be much better matched with it than dd. It would have been easier on my dd to wait until 6th, just based on her...learning personality, or level of talent, or something. She started it as a brain-stretching experiment and it has not disappointed :lol:. It has been good for her, but tough, and I don't want to burn her out. Interestingly, she says she likes it, which is not what one would expect if they saw her working, LOL.

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