Higher Levels of HOD

[bethanyjoy]

I've been pouring over posts about HOD (from this board, the HOD email group, and the HOD forums) and trying to decide if HOD is the way we want to go. I currently have a Kindergartener and are using FIAR. HOD is really appealing to me. I like the activities and projects that I have seen in the samples. I DO NOT like the "school at home" methods and run away from those! I've seen many opinions about how gentle HOD is. HOWEVER, then I read reviews about the higher levels of HOD (CTC and up) and start to really doubt switching to HOD. I've been reading how kids can't keep up with the workload and who get really frustrated. Many people have said how it feels like "school at home" in the upper levels and they feel disconnected from their children since they are doing a lot of independent work. I understand that kids in middle school and high school should be expected to do more independent work and be able to handle a heavier workload, but these are kids in the 5th and 6th grades. I would love to hear opinions of all of this! I keep going back and forth between curriculum. I know there isn't one perfect curriculum, but I'm trying to get all of the information I can before I purchase anything!

 

Thanks,

Bethany

[kandty]

:bigear:

 

I am considering HOD next year (Bigger and maybe CTC). I am wondering about the "school at home". I would like to hear more about what people mean by this.

[Dassah]

Bethany, I believe you will find that most mothers of 5th graders on up who have college in sight for their children are trying to find the balance of rigorous homeschool learning (and the heavier workload that must be accomplished with that) with a love for learning. My yearly academic goals for my children take on a very different flavor around 4th grade. Something like FIAR or SL is, in my opinion, fantastic for the young elementary grades. Of course, families who are more classically bent would use those younger years for strong memory work while it's easier for kids to memorize. Personally, I use that time to get them excited about books. Then, when they are 4th on up, my goal is to start having them read well chosen books specifically to make strong connections. You will find as many opinions about the elementary years as there are homeschoolers! :) BUT, from 5th on up...most moms get pretty serious and are more similar in the way they implement school. Blood, sweat, and tears. :) No matter what curriculum, kids must learn and that takes time and effort.

 

School at home means to me that there is a grammar book, math book, science text, history text, etc. That is not HOD. HOD does have some texts for math and grammar but other subjects like history have "living books" that should be more interesting than a text written by multiple authors. There are history projects, history read alouds, Bible reading - singing - studying. That doesn't feel school-y to me. However, if you envision your day to be full of reading historical fiction books and Usborne encyclopedias on the couch feeling that connectivity with your child... HOD is more schoolish than that (which is how I felt SL was...and I really enjoyed it!). We tweak HOD's suggestion from Independent work to Together work oftentimes when I feel like I'm not as involved as I want to be. Then again, on days when I need my student to be more independent, we use the guide as written. My goal is for my children to be very much independent by 7-8th grade, so this is fulfilling one of my goals. That said, I feel VERY much involved and in control of my involvement. Kudos to you for researching in advance. I can assure you that you will find your fit over time (and, sometimes, it just takes time to figure out what exactly you are looking for! :)

[Another Lynn]

There are many things about HOD I love! I go back and forth between wanting a guide to tell us what to do and not wanting to be told what to do. One thing I notice after we've tried a guide for a little while is that it *can* feel like too many pieces/parts. In the beginning I get excited that poetry, primary sources, copying quotes, picture study, drawing, notebooking, geography, timelining etc. are included.... but after awhile I start to wonder if we can drop 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there, 15 minutes for this and 10 minutes for that. I think I would feel this way no matter what curriculum we were using (WTM also recommends mapping, timelining, notebooking, outlining, writing summaries).

 

So, I don't have any answers for you. I get tired of what we're doing no matter what we use.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I have kids doing both the lower guides and higher guides. We are doing CTC which begins to have a lot more independent work. I like it and I haven't felt disconnected, but we school in one room and I am there even when they are working on their own.

I will say that I did try to do all of the HOD recommendations for math and english this year with CTC and found that overwhelming. Doing HOD's dictation, DITHOR, R&S English, Write With the Best, and reading the storytime selections was overkill. It was too much. We are going back to LLATL and it feels so much better because it is one book. All of language arts are there-copywork, dictation, writing, research, spelling, vocabulary, reading....but my child isn't juggling 3 or 4 different language arts books by 3 or 4 different publishers.

I don't think I could hack HOD at this point if we were to keep up all of the language arts recommendations. That was where I felt overwhelmed and trying to keep up with what the kids were doing was getting hairy.

I think that with anything you have to find what works for you and let the guide be there for you and drop what doesn't work.

It is a lot of varied instruction and your child learns a lot of skills. I would never consider it school at home in the way that Abeka or Calvert feels. It is a very busy day if you do all of HOD's recommendations. I have looked ahead in the catalog at the next 2 guides and it does keep getting busier and busier.

I haven't found anything else laid out with history and science that isn't textbook style so we are keeping moving ahead with it. I plan to do what feels comfortable and right for my children and drop what doesn't work or feels like overkill.

[MamaHappy]

I've been pouring over posts about HOD (from this board, the HOD email group, and the HOD forums) and trying to decide if HOD is the way we want to go. I currently have a Kindergartener and are using FIAR. HOD is really appealing to me. I like the activities and projects that I have seen in the samples. I DO NOT like the "school at home" methods and run away from those! I've seen many opinions about how gentle HOD is. HOWEVER, then I read reviews about the higher levels of HOD (CTC and up) and start to really doubt switching to HOD. I've been reading how kids can't keep up with the workload and who get really frustrated. Many people have said how it feels like "school at home" in the upper levels and they feel disconnected from their children since they are doing a lot of independent work. I understand that kids in middle school and high school should be expected to do more independent work and be able to handle a heavier workload, but these are kids in the 5th and 6th grades. I would love to hear opinions of all of this! I keep going back and forth between curriculum. I know there isn't one perfect curriculum, but I'm trying to get all of the information I can before I purchase anything!

 

Thanks,

Bethany

 

Gentle is NOT one of the words that come to mind when I think of HOD. :) Well, maybe the earlier guides are more gentle, but once you hit Bigger, things really ramp up. My ds has had some notebooking assignemnts in Bigger that took an hour, there was so much copywork. And the workload only increases from there as you move up in guides. I haven't used the upper guides, but I've used HOD for 3 years now and I've looked extensively at the uppper guides and I can see what people mean when they say the workload is intense. Just looking at the CTC and RTR guide makes me exhausted, lol. They look so overwhelming to me. But I have also seen many people using the upper guides who say they are wonderful so I guess it just depends.

 

HOD is not "textbooky" if that's what you mean by school-at-home. I'm pretty certain that HOD is vastly different from what public schools are using. :) But for me, it does sort of have a rigid feel in that there are all the boxes to be completed everyday and I didn't feel like I had flexibility to move things around. I did find DITHOR to have a "classroomy" feel to it and I quicky dropped it. Also, many of the discussion questions have a generic feel to them so maybe that is one thing people are referring to when they say HOD feels to "schooly", not really sure.

[birchbark]

HoD has a strong focus on skill-building and that is probably what people are referring to when they say is it schooly. Each reading has a follow-up assignment such as copywork, written narrations, mapwork, drawing, creating vocab cards, notebooking, filling in a timeline, and so on. If you have visions of hours of snuggling on the couch reading together with minimal pencil work, then HoD will be a disappointment. It is a program that has true "writing across the curriculum."

 

However it is not schooly in its book choices. Most are wonderful living books. One exception may be the R&S English; however you can sub your own choice for this if you wish.

 

HoD days definitely are full if you do them as written. I have come to the belief that it is best to hit the guides on the older side. Do keep in mind though that the upper levels are scheduled for only four days a week.

 

If you look at a sample page of an upper HoD guide, you'll see there are letters in the corner of each box. They stand for Independent, Semi-independent, and Teacher led. This gives you an idea of how much of the day is planned to be done with or without the parent. However this can be easily changed to do as you like. Sometimes I have DS do his T boxes without me and sometimes we do the I boxes together.

 

It's a great idea to do curriculum research, however don't worry about planning things too far down the road. Just make decisions for each year as it comes. You never know what might change! :)

[Michelle My Bell]

I have a daughter who is at the higher end of the age range for HOD and it is a perfect fit for her. She is 14 and is currently in their newest guide. She has been using the program for 3 years now and she loves it. I'll be honest, I am pretty hands off with her. I mostly check in every now and then and I ask her to come to me with her narrations occasionally.

 

This is a child who struggled with everything academic for years. She didn't really learn to read until she was 9 years old. Since starting this program she has bloomed. She is incredibly motivated now. She is often up and doing school before I have even had breakfast. I am not even kidding.

 

I think HOD expects a lot and those at the lower end of the age range just are not ready for what HOD is asking of them. If you can hold off on the upper levels of HOD until your child is at the upper age range, I think that would make all the difference in the world.

 

I want to add that my daughter does not only do 4 days a week. She just keeps going day by day, ignoring the 4 day schedule. This is a bonus for her as she may finish a guide early and get a break. She will start the next one soon after. This year she started RTR in October since she finished the previous program and she is moving along at a brisk pace.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Michelle My Bell

[abrightmom]

birchbark and Michelle,

 

Based on your experiences with HOD and your view that being on the upper age range makes a difference, do you think this makes it difficult to combine children in HOD?

 

We ran into this issue in the earlier guides. The skill integration is so thorough that it became a noose when it didn't match up with my boys' differing skill sets. Running 3 guides proved ridiculous in our home when we can easily study the same Bible, history, and science topics. As I looked ahead at CTC on up, I realized that there is NO WAY my younger son could (or should) handle them even though he'd meet the age requirement on the low end. This has been deeply disappointing for us and that ended our love affair with HOD for this season! I am still considering it for my kids when they hit logic stage.

Edited January 9, 2012 by abrightmom

[birchbark]

birchbark and Michelle,

 

Based on your experiences with HOD and your view that being on the upper age range makes a difference, do you think this makes it difficult to combine children in HOD?

 

 

 

I think it's totally going to depend on the particular children you're trying to combine. The best scenario is going to be when the older is a little slower for their age and the younger is advanced.

 

I'm hoping to combine my two youngers some day but I'll prob wait until the older is in extension range before attempting it. AND I won't be using the younger guides.

[abrightmom]

birchbark,

 

Thanks for sharing that! Our scenario is an advanced older child and a slower younger.... :lol:

 

If you aren't using the younger guides, when do you begin with HOD?

[bethanyjoy]

I really appreciate all of your replies. You all have given me a lot to think about. If we switch to HOD we would begin LHFHG for1st grade with a 6-year-old. So...she would be in the middle of the age range. For those who suggest using the guides at the upper end of the age range, would this still be too young? If we wait another year then we won't be able to finish all of the high school guides that are planned, right? From my understanding, if we start in 1st grade then my daughter will be able to complete the last guide that is planned during her senior year (assuming everything goes as planned!). If this is correct, what would you do if you find that you started too late to finish all of the guides?

 

Thanks,

Bethany

[Dassah]

We used the early guides at the lowest end of the range (LHTH - Pre-K, LHfHG - K, Beyond - 1). Starting Bigger is when you need to use the mid to upper end of the age range in my humble opinion. :001_smile:

[bethanyjoy]

We used the early guides at the lowest end of the range (LHTH - Pre-K, LHfHG - K, Beyond - 1). Starting Bigger is when you need to use the mid to upper end of the age range in my humble opinion. :001_smile:

 

 

Then what would you do to fill in the gap between the Beyond and the Bigger guides?

[AngelBee]

Then what would you do to fill in the gap between the Beyond and the Bigger guides?

 

You could do a transition period where u move at a slower pace instead of a week per unit.

[abrightmom]

Then what would you do to fill in the gap between the Beyond and the Bigger guides?

 

Some Moms run LHFHG, Beyond, and Bigger at four days a week instead of five. This adds 9 weeks to each guide which almost uses up a school year.

 

I wouldn't think twice about high school at this point ;). Just go with what works for you today.

[Hadassah]

I've never used HOD, but some members of my homeschooling co-op do. Their general consensus is that it is PERFECT... if you are looking for a school-at-home type of setup. True, there's not an overabundance of textbooks, but there are other aspects that do make HOD quite school-at-home. The families in my co-op who used HOD who didn't want sah overwhelmingly did not like HOD. So it depends on your preference: sah or non-sah?

[twoxcell]

Some Moms run LHFHG, Beyond, and Bigger at four days a week instead of five. This adds 9 weeks to each guide which almost uses up a school year.

 

 

:iagree:

This is what I'm am doing with my dd since she started LHFHG before she turned 5.

 

HOD is not School-At-Home IMHO. Although I have no idea what is meant by that other to insult people.;) What we are doing with our school is really nothing at all like public school(believe me I have experience as a teachers aid there). Is it structured to a certain degree absolutly! Is it rigorous in the upper guides most definitely! If that is not what you are looking for then it may not be for you. Contrary to popular belief a CM education isn't at all mellow and laid back. In the younger years Miss Mason advocated for a semi-gentle approach and HOD's early guides meet that criteria. She also advocated for a rich learning experience that was liberal in its topics(as in covered a broad range of subjects). HTH

[jewel7123]

It's a great idea to do curriculum research, however don't worry about planning things too far down the road. Just make decisions for each year as it comes. You never know what might change! :)

 

Amen to that, sista! :tongue_smilie: I can't tell you how many times I've changed my mind about what curriculum to use......HOD, no....MFW, no....TOG, no.....HOD again, or maybe MFW??????!!!!! :D

 

My advice is to take each year as it comes and decide what works best for your family at that particular moment. Also, just because something is working now doesn't mean it always will, so don't feel like you've got to make a choice between HOD, MFW, SL, or whatever at the very beginning of your homeschooling journey at stick with it, because you don't. I know it feels that way sometimes, but I promise you, it will be OK if you pick something now and next year decide you want to use something else. It's a learning experience, but eventually you will "find your groove" and what works for you and your particular children.

 

But, I also know how fun it is to research, so have fun! :001_smile:

[jewel7123]

We used the early guides at the lowest end of the range (LHTH - Pre-K, LHfHG - K, Beyond - 1). Starting Bigger is when you need to use the mid to upper end of the age range in my humble opinion. :001_smile:

 

:iagree: LHTH is NOT for a K'er, at least in my family. I tried it with my 4.5 year old and it was way too easy. I would say it's more for a 3 or JUST turned 4 year old, OR any child who does not already know their letters, numbers, etc.

[birchbark]

If you aren't using the younger guides, when do you begin with HOD?

 

Preparing Hearts. That's the plan anyway. I've got some time before I get there. :)

[bethanyjoy]

Thank you all again for your advice...there is so much to think about! I know that I shouldn't think too much about high school, but I tend to be a little obsessive about some things and I can't make myself stop! :blushing:

 

Bethany

[jewel7123]

Then what would you do to fill in the gap between the Beyond and the Bigger guides?

 

You could do a year of Geography.....Galloping the Globe, Expedition Earth, etc. Just a thought. I agree, I wouldn't wait until 2nd to use Beyond if you decide to use that particular guide. Jut my opinion of course. :001_smile: You could also do a combo of MFW Adventures and HOD Beyond and stretch it out over 2 years and THEN do Bigger in 3rd grade. :D

[jewel7123]

Do a search for Beyond Bigger Adventures and you'll see that many people combine Beyond with Adventures, or Bigger with Adventures, or both! :tongue_smilie:

[hmschooling]

I didn't get to read all the other replies but the upper levels do not leave you out of the loop. You'll find this thread VERY helpful:

Independence in upper guides doesn't equal less interaction

ETA: Here is another great post about how the independent work doesn't leave you out.

 

The early years are more gentle, and using the HOD guides from the start means your kids will be much better prepared for the upper guides than kids newer to HOD. The guides build one on another. It isn't "school" at home...it's just that that level does get harder b/c the kids are older and in higher grade levels. School at home is very much more like WTM recs (lots of workbooks and texts), A Beka, AOP, etc. HOD is rich and amazing. And you can always slow down to half speed if your child needs some time to mature into a guide. I think the kids on the older end of the age range also have a better time with the workload that increases little by little each year. We have easily completed PHFHG in way less time than Carrie allotted for the level on a regular basis...same for all the guides before that, and my child in this guide is very easily distracted and is a dawdler. We will start CTC this fall with my will-be 11yo DD. I can see that it definitely moves into the next learning stage, similar to the Trivium of classical ed., but mostly b/c middle school kids should be moving to a higher level of critical thinking and HOD has met that need very well. We've been super pleased with every level of HOD from LHTH to PHFHG and even when we ran three guides at once! I don't combine mine at all. :) We were still done about lunch time even with a newborn in tow! (and a fussy needy newborn was he...and his toddler brother was very needy and jealous, so it amazes me and blesses me that we could have smooth days in the midst of chaos b/c of HOD).

Edited January 26, 2012 by hmschooling

[hmschooling]

You could do a year of Geography.....Galloping the Globe, Expedition Earth, etc. Just a thought. I agree, I wouldn't wait until 2nd to use Beyond if you decide to use that particular guide. Jut my opinion of course. :001_smile: You could also do a combo of MFW Adventures and HOD Beyond and stretch it out over 2 years and THEN do Bigger in 3rd grade. :D

 

YOu could do this, or do all the lower level guides 4 days a week, picking up in the fall where you left off the school year before. Then you'd reach the guides with your kids being a little older. I perfer NOT to take 2 years on Beyond, but 2 years on Bigger. Beyond would be too much of the same topics for too long if it was over 2 years, IMHO. I think Beyond is great for 2nd grade and Bigger is perfect for 3rd or 4th. Preparing has been great for my 5th grader this year and she's gifted. But it won't be too much for my next child if he hits Preparing in 4th and he's not gifted. It's so easy to tailor the guides and they really are just wonderful. :)

[Tidbits of Learning]

birchbark,

 

Thanks for sharing that! Our scenario is an advanced older child and a slower younger.... :lol:

 

 

 

This does not work out well in our household for self-confidence and feeling proud of their work. It made my younger child feel like he could never answer quick enough, couldn't write fast enough, and his art/projects looked babyish beside his siblings.