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I am mostly just curious, I guess. There's been a lot of talk about borderlines in one of my social circles lately, but I am having a hard time visualizing how the traits play out specifically. So, want to vent? Tell a juicy tale? I would love your anecdotes, tales, experiences of specific incidents and examples of behavior. What did your borderline do?

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My grandmother would go faint if contradicted. She once faked a heart attack-type thing because I told her to stop telling my son he couldn't do this or that (school wise). Got in bed and wouldn't speak to me, she was visiting from out of town. Didn't straighten up til I threatened to call my dad, who is a doctor, because she knew he would let her have it.

 

She ignored my brothers and sisters and was mean to my mom. She announced she didn't want anymore grandchildren after I was born, and she acted like she didn't have any when the others came along. She never let my mom address her as anything but Mrs. Last Name.

 

I wish my parents had cut her off. As I was her favorite it's a wonder to me my siblings didn't hate me. She was unbelievable. As I grew older I saw her for what she was and resented the way she treated everyone but me.

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Here, read this. harpyschild blog link was posted to a previous thread.

 

My grandmother fit all but one of these to a faretheewell!

 

the wife of a pscyhologist said the biggest difference between borderline personality and narcisstic personality disorders is BPD has a fear of abandonment. for NPD - the idea of anyone abandoning anyone as "wonderful" as them is simply inconcievable.

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There are people on the board who have BPD, so try to keep it somewhat kind. The doctors used to think I had it- and I might have, and recovered- but my last doc said I didn't have BPD, but I did have OCD.

 

Anyway, just try to keep that in mind when you're swapping "horror" stories.

Edited by Mergath
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Here, read this. harpyschild blog link was posted to a previous thread.

 

My grandmother fit all but one of these.

 

So was your grandmother borderline? I am specifically curious about that. Manipulation is manipulation, but NPD seems like a different can of worms. NPD people don't care about anyone but themselves, but BPD care overly much, right?

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So was your grandmother borderline? I am specifically curious about that. Manipulation is manipulation, but NPD seems like a different can of worms. NPD people don't care about anyone but themselves, but BPD care overly much, right?

 

BPD usually arises as the result of abuse. The problem is that people with BPD have very black and white thinking, and they'll either love you or hate you. You can say something completely innocent, but in their mind, you've crossed over to the "bad" side, and they now hate you, whereas they had probably idolized you before. That's how it works- when they don't hate every fiber of your being, they love you more than anyone else in the world. There's no grey area.

 

That gets tied in to a horrible fear of abandonment, so you end up with a lot of scenarios like, "I hate you! I hope you die! Wait, don't go, please, I was kidding, please stay!!" But then when you agree to stay, they flip back to hating you.

 

I'm pretty sure I did have it for a long time, but it is possible to "heal" from something like that, because it's something that is done to you, not something that is wrong with your brain physically. My thought processes were just like I described, and it wasn't something I could really control, not until I read about BPD and understood what's going on. The emotions you feel are so overwhelming you're pretty much just at their mercy, and do what you have to in order to keep people from leaving you, which is terrifying to an extent I can't really describe when you have BPD.

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oh, my brother - while not nearly as destructive (to me at least) as my grandmother, has been a bit more "flamboyant" in his behavior. dh is executor of my mothers estate. the wording in the trust is quite specific as to how it is to be divided up, so that each of her children receives an equal share. now, it is not uncommon for siblings to get greedy (which he is -and thinks my sister would be on his side. really? apparently he never noticed she hates him), or to be rude and stressful, but when after talking to lawyers, and threatening to sue dh for improper handing of the estate to get control:

 

which had dh :lol: becasue

a) his background is audit, and he has impecable paper trails - we found evidence that db got onto dh's computer and deleted some files pertaining to mother's estate. dh has hard copies of EVERYTHING. so while he was fuming, the damage wasn't as great as dufuss thought.

b) he's dealt with actual competent sob's (as in SVP's, and CEO's of banks) in his employment - and db is NOT nearly as sophisticated as he thinks (*especially* regarding finances/investment), and

c) the trust has the "super nasty clause" that anyone causing unjustified trouble will be treated as deceased and having no heirs. re: he'll get cut off, AND have to pay back anything he's already recieved from the estate)

d) did I mention dh quit law school because he realized he'd be very good at it, and it was bringing the worst out in him?

 

anyway, what had me going :001_huh:, was that after all of that, brother-dear thought he could STILL come and see me and play with dudeling. :confused: My kids were rejoicing because it meant he was no longer welcome in our home. (up until this point, i'd been "tolerating" him for my mother's sake.

 

 

oh, and I'm sure it's in her medical records that when he last took her to the ER, the attending physician personally witnessed what he described to me as a degree of such manipulation (in an attempt to gain control of her finances/estate) that had him put hospital secruity on alert to throw him off the campus if I said so. (I told them to tell him they'd keep her, and he'd leave on his own. Now I wish I *had* had them throw him out. *right* after he left - the dr told me later - my mother called attempting to convince me she knew who she was, who I was, and that I was the one she wanted in control of things. she was so vulnerable, he was reprehensible in the way he treated her.)

Edited by gardenmom5
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BPD people view the world from only their side.

They cannot see another person's viewpoint.

 

People are either on their side or not.

 

People are either useful or not.---This has different meaning depending on what makes the BPD happy at the moment. --For instance if my mother wants to feel useful-- a needy person is gonna get EVERYTHING, time money, advise, goodwill---until they start to push for their own things--then WHAMMO off the good list, on the bad.--Or until the BPD person no longer needs to be needed, then the person they created is tooo needy and is simply left in the cold.

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Well, my MIL has been gone for 4 years now, but the repercussions of her still linger. It's really lovely.

 

I have WAAAY too many examples to give so I will choose one specific and then a sort of general observation.

 

Ok, so we got married after having our two kids (long story, also involving my MIL) and so as a "honeymoon" we went to Italy for 3 weeks with a 1 1/2 year old, a 6 month old and my MIL. We were going to stay in the same hotel rooms, etc. for the first and last week. The middle week we were going to go do some things on our own while she stayed with her sister. 30 min. after we went back to our hotel for the night before we left to go to Florence, we get a frantic phonecall from her sister. My MIL ended up needing to go to the hospital, stayed there for 4 days and then be monitored the whole rest of the time. We had to hire a family friend to take care of her, and other things but I wasn't expecting to spend what amounted to over 4 days almost completely alone in a country where I barely spoke the language (no one spoke English in the town we were in when this first happened) with 2 very small kids (both in diapers) and initially he left me to go to the hospital w/o $$ or food (he forgot, it was a bit crazy). ANyway, the verdict was that she ODed on her blood pressure medicine ON PURPOSE, as we were going to "leave her there" for a few days. She was "afraid" we were going to leave her with her family and then go back to the states w/o her. Lovely.

 

Anyway, she had a million horrid things that she would do constantly, and so so wrapped up in herself that she never once thought about what she was doing to her son. It was just awful. I also came to the realization that she was fully committed to keeping him and everyone fully in her thrall...and she didn't care what the attention was that she got. Negative attention was equal to every other sort. She was not above or afraid to use her body to keep it all focused on her. Purposefully falling down stairs, ODing, faking various attacks, inducing them through a lot of effort, wow, it was amazing.

 

My point in rambling, is that if one is compelled to be the center of attention- and don't care how they get there, faking an illness, inflicting bad things upon themselves, are not a big deal to them. They get what they want, so their effort was successful in their mind. It is sad, sick and inevitable.

 

I endured living with this toxic mess of a person for 9 years.

 

4 years after she has died, and I watch my husband still react to weird little time bombs that she lovingly laid out for him over his whole life. I am sure she never once really thought about him, though I am sure she thinks she did. She groomed him to be her caretaker and went out of her way to make sure he never got married or had kids as SHE didn't want him to. Nice. Unfortunately for her, I was particularly stubborn, don't like other people to tell me what to do, and come from a family that takes care of their elderly family members (and friends) and never sends them to a nursing home. The whole 9 years she still thought every. single. day. that we were going to dump her in a home. EVERY DAY.

 

Now, don't get me started about my dad!!! A different breed of narcissist, but classic in his complete and utter love for himself. :)

Edited by radiobrain
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Well, my MIL is absolutely NPD.

 

There are loads of stories to tell, but I'll just share one now...

 

Apparently, MIL has asthma. Supposedly quite bad.

 

I say 'apparently' and 'supposedly' b/c in the 9 yrs I've been w/Wolf, I've never witnessed her having any symptoms, except...

 

When we were first married, and I said anything she didn't like (aka disagreed w/her in any way, shape, or form) she'd suddenly have an asthma attack.

 

Wheezing, gargling, phlemy choking noises. Made me feel like someone had just gobbed in my ear.

 

I finally got to the point where I started saying, "Oh my! You sound unwell, I'd best get off the phone and let you go lay down."

 

She hasn't had an 'asthma attack' in 8 yrs or so. :glare: At least, not in my presence.

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My MIL has Paranoid Personality Disorder. One time DH and I went out for late coffee and dessert. We accidentally knocked the phone off the hook at some point before we left (pre cell phone). We got home around 11pm. About 10 minutes after we got home, MIL is pounding at the door. Totally alarmed, we let her in. She starts screaming at us and telling us that she knows what we're saying about her. At some point we are able to piece together that because the phone was busy for 2 hours, she convinced herself that we were on the line saying bad things about her to dh's dad (her ex). She was so convinced, that she got in the car and drove 40 minutes to confront us in person. When we showed her that the phone was off the hook, she cursed at us and called us liars. Dh had to physically remove her from our condo and lock her out to end the confrontation.

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So was your grandmother borderline? I am specifically curious about that. Manipulation is manipulation, but NPD seems like a different can of worms. NPD people don't care about anyone but themselves, but BPD care overly much, right?

 

I'm not sure. harpyschild NPD descriptions fits her *very* well, but she did want people around her and would be very mellow dramatic even when we left to go home. (she always stood in the door until our car was out of sight, and we *always* had to call as soon as we got home. if we didn't, she'd call when she thought we should be there. heaven forbid if we ran errands on the way home.) There is suggestion that there was abuse (possible s*x abuse) in her natal family. (10 girls, on a very rural farm in the early 1900's. Most had "issues".) that does NOT negate the fact she did tremendous damage to her child and grandchildren.

 

I was her "scapegoat" (reportedly the ones who see most clearly because they aren't sucked in), my sister was her "victim" (and perversely, her most preferred. received the most gifts, picutres of her children in prime locations, etc. - though sister didn't comprehend it because she was too busy bending over backwards trying to get approbation from a woman incapable of approving of anything that didn't concern her own "wisdom"), and my brother her "prince" (she heaped the most approval on him, but my sister got the cash gifts - all with ropes and chains attached.)

 

she would nurture hurts. she could hold a grudge so long, she didn't know why she was angry, just that she was. I once had my great-aunt, who was generally beloved by the many neices and nephews, come up to me and asked why my grandmother (her younger sister) hated her. (umm, to be honest, you have a nicer house with prettier things.)

 

one week, ONE WEEK, after my marriage, she tried to convince me dh was sleepping around - 'cause everybody does it. I laughed in her face. (I commited many mortal sins like that with her. she never forgave me for them either.) She could not get over that I was happy in my marriage and with my own family. she honestly felt anything good that happend to me, was taking it from my sister. I really felt sorry for my sister for how grandmother set her up. but my sister did participate in it. after grandmother died, she started looking at some teachings of buddha, and they helped her.

 

eta: she stopped driving the day my grandfather retired - so I'm sure that saved us from some things.

Edited by gardenmom5
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There are people on the board who have BPD, so try to keep it somewhat kind. The doctors used to think I had it- and I might have, and recovered- but my last doc said I didn't have BPD, but I did have OCD.

 

Anyway, just try to keep that in mind when you're swapping "horror" stories.

 

I wonder if you're confusing Bipolar Disorder with Borderline Personality Disorder. I have read of posters here with the former, but not the latter, and they're quite different.

 

Best wishes

 

Cassy

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There are people on the board who have BPD, so try to keep it somewhat kind.

 

:iagree:

 

My mother, who is diagnosed with bipolar, has done some pretty difficult things (some of the things in this thread and the cancer thing, too). I understand why it's helpful to those who have experienced it to need to vent: we feel like we must be crazy -- like maybe we are the only ones experiencing this stuff. But I won't share more b/c I know that I would get carried away and some of the people on this forum who deal with mental illness would be upset.

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My MIL has Paranoid Personality Disorder. One time DH and I went out for late coffee and dessert. We accidentally knocked the phone off the hook at some point before we left (pre cell phone). We got home around 11pm. About 10 minutes after we got home, MIL is pounding at the door. Totally alarmed, we let her in. She starts screaming at us and telling us that she knows what we're saying about her. At some point we are able to piece together that because the phone was busy for 2 hours, she convinced herself that we were on the line saying bad things about her to dh's dad (her ex). She was so convinced, that she got in the car and drove 40 minutes to confront us in person. When we showed her that the phone was off the hook, she cursed at us and called us liars. Dh had to physically remove her from our condo and lock her out to end the confrontation.

 

How is PPD different from Schizophrenia? I had a close family member diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia who did things like this, but (even though family were sometimes angry with her) we tried very hard to understand that it was out of her control and she *really believed* this stuff. (Thankfully, time-released medication usually managed her most difficult crises very well.) When she was not having an episode, she was very loving.

 

I cannot imagine how hard it must be to live like that.

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My MIL is most probably NPD (there is one other diagnosis that is similar, and comes close as well). Oh, the horror story from this Christmas. If you really want a juicy one, I can give details. To summarize - she pulled one of her little tantrums and was, for the first time in her life, called on it. The result was to send her off the deep end with hatred for me. She then harrassed me with text messages and emails saying vile, horrible things until we had the police tell her to stop or she would be arrested. Suffice it to say, I cannot forsee a future in which she will ever see myself or my children again.

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I wonder if you're confusing Bipolar Disorder with Borderline Personality Disorder. I have read of posters here with the former, but not the latter, and they're quite different.

 

Best wishes

 

Cassy

 

Ah, no. Believe me, I know the difference, having probably suffered from the latter and having a husband with the former. The people who have BPD have pm'd me about it, and aren't generally open about it because they fear the stigma.

 

I have to say, threads like this don't exactly encourage one to be open about having something like BPD.

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Ah, no. Believe me, I know the difference.

 

It seems to me (from my experience with my mother) that there is some overlap of symptoms, so it may not be easy for everyone to know the difference. Also, in my family's experience, a diagnosis can change, and sometimes change a lot. I believe that our understanding of these disorders has evolved over time.

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If you really want a juicy one, I can give details. To summarize - she pulled one of her little tantrums and was, for the first time in her life, called on it. The result was to send her off the deep end with hatred for me. She then harrassed me with text messages and emails saying vile, horrible things until we had the police tell her to stop or she would be arrested.

 

What do you meant temper tantrum, and what did calling her on it look like?

 

I really can use lots of specific stories.

 

What about someone whose partner stays inside the house all the time because asking to go out results in sarcastic, biting comments about priorities, or very long emails that, if not answered in detail quickly, result in suicidality in the writer?

 

How do you differentiate between depressed/needy and borderline?

 

Do all borderlines say unkind, angry, hurtful things designed to pierce a person's most tender spot?

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It seems to me (from my experience with my mother) that there is some overlap of symptoms, so it may not be easy for everyone to know the difference. Also, in my family's experience, a diagnosis can change, and sometimes change a lot. I believe that our understanding of these disorders has evolved over time.

 

True. I just meant I wasn't confusing the terms in regard to who has what around here. As for correct diagnosis or not, well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

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Here's one more for the alphabet soup - HPD - histrionic personality disorder - which can be equally difficult to walk through with a family member. The constant attention seeking can generate highly ridiculous public actions, and like NPD, a lot of theatricality is involved. Not so much lying as outlandish behavior and manipulation.

 

I am also a scapegoat. But others might just be convinced I'm just plain mean. So be it. :tongue_smilie:

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What about someone whose partner stays inside the house all the time because asking to go out results in sarcastic, biting comments about priorities, or very long emails that, if not answered in detail quickly, result in suicidality in the writer?

 

 

If someone is suicidal, for whatever reason, they need help (whether or not they want it) immediately! (S)he can be involuntarily committed if (s)he is a danger to him/herself or others. Being suicidal is a danger to oneself, so it qualifies.

 

ETA: If this is a real situation, please tell the person to get help for the writer immediately. When I was younger (a kid) I thought I could prevent an intended suicide. (Another kettle of fish: I was told I could prevent it/cause it/my actions would determine what happened, basically.) This IS NOT TRUE. It is no one else's fault. No one causes the person to want to kill themselves. No one deserves the blame or the responsibility to prevent it. The desire to kill oneself comes from within that person. It is not from an external source. This person needs help and the person who feels the need to stay home to prevent a suicide also needs help.

Edited by zaichiki
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If someone is suicidal, for whatever reason, they need help (whether or not they want it) immediately! (S)he can be involuntarily committed if (s)he is a danger to him/herself or others. Being suicidal is a danger to oneself, so it qualifies.

Problem is, w/NPD/HPD, they act completely and totally rational around others.

 

You call an ambulance or any emergency services, and the person acts completely fine, denies ever having uttered a word about self harm, and even twists things so that you're just causing trouble, etc.

 

It's a very difficult place to be.

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If someone is suicidal, for whatever reason, they need help (whether or not they want it) immediately! (S)he can be involuntarily committed if (s)he is a danger to him/herself or others. Being suicidal is a danger to oneself, so it qualifies.

 

:iagree: People with BPD have a scary high rate of successful suicide attempts. No matter what the person's mental health diagnosis, though, suicide isn't something to fool around with. Better safe than sorry.

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This book is very helpful for those who have loved ones (or not-so-loved-ones) with BPD http://www.amazon.com/Hate-You-Dont-Leave-Understanding/dp/0380713055

 

My husband's sister had it (I use past tense because, unfortunately, she took her own life). It is a very challenging disorder because the person doesn't see the problem as him/herself, IMHO.

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Problem is, w/NPD/HPD, they act completely and totally rational around others.

 

You call an ambulance or any emergency services, and the person acts completely fine, denies ever having uttered a word about self harm, and even twists things so that you're just causing trouble, etc.

 

It's a very difficult place to be.

 

 

:iagree: Then not only do you look foolish and overreactive, you lose all credibility in the future. BTDT.

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Ah, no. Believe me, I know the difference, having probably suffered from the latter and having a husband with the former. The people who have BPD have pm'd me about it, and aren't generally open about it because they fear the stigma.

 

I have to say, threads like this don't exactly encourage one to be open about having something like BPD.

 

Ah, OK, maybe I was getting a bit confused.

 

:grouphug: It sounds as though you've had quite a tough time of it. I admire your courage and your honesty.

 

Cassy

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If someone is suicidal, for whatever reason, they need help (whether or not they want it) immediately! (S)he can be involuntarily committed if (s)he is a danger to him/herself or others. Being suicidal is a danger to oneself, so it qualifies.

 

ETA: If this is a real situation, please tell the person to get help for the writer immediately.

 

She's not that far gone. She has been sad on a wishing for death level but isn't planning to do anything because she has a very young child.

 

She isn't exactly saying its his fault. She is saying "it is my issue but I wish you cared about me enough to change how you behave to be more accommodating to my issue."

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What do you meant temper tantrum, and what did calling her on it look like?

 

I really can use lots of specific stories.

 

HPD is the other possible diagnosis. She is so close to fitting either bill that even professional opinions vary.

 

OK. The longer shortened version. MIL has a pattern. If something does not go EXACTLY the way she wants she flips out. In the 13 years we have been married, she has disowned her own daughter three times. The last time was because her grandson didn't do exactly what she wanted when she wanted. She and FIL have been divorced for 25 years. She lives 14 hours away, and has for as long as I have known them. Out of the last five Christmases, we have all done lunch together four times. On to the story...

My MIL was supposed to come to our city and stay with my SIL over Christmas. They were all to come to our house on the 26th for lunch and presents (Christmas day is just for us). I didn't feel right about FIL having to miss seeing all of the grandkids (a once every few years experience), so husband called MIL to ask if she would be comfortable if we invited him. She flipped, canceled her entire trip, and hung up on him.

Just in case you didn’t catch that, she canceled a week-long trip over a three hour time frame. We sent her an email that told her, as politely as possible, that we found her respone to that simple question to be manipulative and unnecessary (based on history, she expected both her children to call, beg her forgiveness, and plead for her to come). Said that she was free to choose where to spend her Christmas and that we hoped it was relaxing for her. That in the future we expect an apology for her behavior.

Thus ensued six days of torment. Highlights of what she sent me: that it is all my fault. I have to apologize to her. Just wait until husband finds out how I spoke to her. I made her cancel Christmas. God will make me pay for my cruelty to her. Eat ____ and die, evil one. Told me I’m a spoiled brat. I’m lazy. I’m a fat ___. I’m an idiot. I’m a b****. Called me a home wrecker. She hopes I choke on Christmas dinner. She will laugh if I die. Husband will divorce me and then she will get to raise our youngest daughter. A lot more eat _____ and die. I stole her retirement. I’m manipulative and selfish. God will avenge her. She hopes we’re miserable all of our days.

Two of my favorite quotes: “leave me alone in my aloneness†and “I will not tolerate your ridiculous ignoring of me.†Oh, and in true NPD fashion, I made her say all those things. (absolutely zero accountability).

That is just a small sample of what she spent six days sending us. At one point she spent two hours texting me something every minute. After we sent that email we did not respond to her at all, not even once. That’s what truly drove her batty. An NPD person cannot stand to be ignored.

The worst part is that while it has been quiet since the police contacted her, we know it is not over. Based on the past several times she has had a meltdown like this, she will contact us sometime around October and pretend nothing happened. Then it will start all over again when she is held accountable for all the stuff she said.

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Suffice it to say, I cannot forsee a future in which she will ever see myself or my children again.

 

congratulations. I know it is disappointing, because we are programmed to want civil and positive relationships with family, but sometimes that's not possible and now due to your MIL's behavior, you don't have to try. Your stress hormones should go down.

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I have to say, threads like this don't exactly encourage one to be open about having something like BPD.

 

(this is a sincere question) Am I understanding correctly that one of the differences is that BPD are capable of seeing something is wrong (though not necessarily do), and NPD are incapable of seeing it in themselves?

 

I can have a great deal of compassion for someone who is trying to overcome what is a great challenge.

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And I find it more than a little disturbing that so much bashing goes on of people who have BPD, NPD and other personality disorders. I realize that dealing with these kinds of disorders among family can be incredibly stressful, but it is almost as if BPD and NPD are treated like second class citizens of the mental disorder world. It's okay to have a free-for-all and totally trash on someone who has it, but we'd all recoil in horror if people were ripping apart someone with OCD, Bipolar, or Clinical depression, e.g.

 

I hope you don't see my story as bashing people with this problem. It is simply what played out for us this Christmas. I hope that by sharing this story someone else can learn something that will help them in their life. :grouphug:

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(this is a sincere question) Am I understanding correctly that one of the differences is that BPD are capable of seeing something is wrong (though not necessarily do), and NPD are incapable of seeing it in themselves?

 

I can have a great deal of compassion for someone who is trying to overcome what is a great challenge.

 

I'm not sure. I don't really know all that much about NPD, tbh. I know that *I* was capable of seeing these things in myself and worked hard to change it. The last mental health practitioner I saw (the one that diagnosed the OCD) said that, based on his sessions with me, he was pretty sure I don't have BPD. However, there's no way for him to tell if I never really had it to begin with and was misdiagnosed, or had it and somehow worked through it. From what I've read, some people just grow out of it once they're away from the abuse, though I have no idea how common that is. The behaviors I had before I learned about BPD did match up pretty well with the diagnostic criteria, though.

 

I'm sure others can explain more about NPD.

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I hope you don't see my story as bashing people with this problem. It is simply what played out for us this Christmas. I hope that by sharing this story someone else can learn something that will help them in their life. :grouphug:

 

I think the attitude toward the people in general is the problem. People with things like depression or OCD are seen as good people that have problems they need help with, and deserve our sympathy. People with personality disorders seem to be viewed around here as these annoying and horrible creatures worthy of mocking and contempt, and there's this subtle undertone that they are responsible for their own behaviors.

 

It probably doesn't help that every other story about BPD seems to be about someone's mother-in-law, a somewhat despised class of person if ever there was one. :rolleyes:

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:iagree: And I find it more than a little disturbing that so much bashing goes on of people who have BPD, NPD and other personality disorders. I realize that dealing with these kinds of disorders among family can be incredibly stressful, but it is almost as if BPD and NPD are treated like second class citizens of the mental disorder world. It's okay to have a free-for-all and totally trash on someone who has it, but we'd all recoil in horror if people were ripping apart someone with OCD, Bipolar, or Clinical depression, e.g.

I'll have to reread the thread, but I don't see sharing experiences as 'bashing'.

 

The one huge difference w/someone that has NPD is they believe themselves to be *perfect*. They don't seek help, they don't ever modify their behaviour, b/c it's everyone else that has the problem, never, ever themselves.

 

Ppl with other illnesses/disorders can and do seek help. NPDs won't.

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It probably doesn't help that every other story about BPD seems to be about someone's mother-in-law, a somewhat despised class of person if ever there was one. :rolleyes:

 

Probably not. I really wish my MIL would get the help she needs so that husband could have some semblance of a relationship with her. His response to everything that happened was relief that he no longer "has" to speak to her, as he was tired of walking on eggshells.

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:iagree: And I find it more than a little disturbing that so much bashing goes on of people who have BPD, NPD and other personality disorders. I realize that dealing with these kinds of disorders among family can be incredibly stressful, but it is almost as if BPD and NPD are treated like second class citizens of the mental disorder world. It's okay to have a free-for-all and totally trash on someone who has it, but we'd all recoil in horror if people were ripping apart someone with OCD, Bipolar, or Clinical depression, e.g.

 

It's not bashing, it's sharing experiences of people who've been tremendously manipulative and destructive to ourselves and our family members for years and years. And for the most part, we "scapegoats" have been told time and time again we're supposed to sit there and take it because it's the "right" thing to do. Meanwhile it's tearing families apart, stressing us out (my hormones are out of whack because of the stress) and like one other poster said, we're the ones that look like we're crazy because around others, those with personality disorders choose to become "normal."

 

If it'd make you feel better, I have a family member that has a combination of personality disorder, bipolar, anxiety disorder and OCD. If you'd like me to share one of a thousand stories about her, I'd be more than willing to share the "bashing" among other mental illnesses that have torn our family up. Meanwhile WE'RE the ones that aren't looked upon well because WE FINALLY put our foot down to the manipulation and craziness. And we're left to pick up the pieces of the many, many storms. You think I like explaining to our children why they can't see their grandma anymore?

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It's okay to have a free-for-all and totally trash on someone who has it, but we'd all recoil in horror if people were ripping apart someone with OCD, Bipolar, or Clinical depression, e.g.

 

 

:iagree: But I think some of the "bashing" comes from fear and misunderstanding. To be honest, someone with OCD, Bi-polar, ADHD, etc. is considered mild and generally "stable." Meds work pretty well, the people tend to function pretty normally most of the time, etc.

 

When you get into the territory of Personality disorders - Multiple, borderline, schizophrenia, etc. it gets "scary" to some. These disorders don't seem to affect as many of the population - they aren't as widespread and well known...and generally, what people don't understand...they fear. Education may be the key in dealing with these things. It is true, also, that meds and techniques don't seem to work as well in these disorders...or maybe they just take more tweeking.

 

At any rate, I am living proof that a person with something as "simple" as OCD can also create a horror story. Ask my family what it was like dealing with me when I was a full blown hypochondriac and wouldn't stay on my meds. There were times that I honestly slept because my body couldn't take any more of what my mind was doing to it. All of these mental disorders can have the potential to destroy your life and the lives of those around you.

 

My heart goes out to anyone suffering from or dealing with the disorders mentioned here.:grouphug:

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I think the attitude toward the people in general is the problem. People with things like depression or OCD are seen as good people that have problems they need help with, and deserve our sympathy. People with personality disorders seem to be viewed around here as these annoying and horrible creatures worthy of mocking and contempt, and there's this subtle undertone that they are responsible for their own behaviors.

 

It probably doesn't help that every other story about BPD seems to be about someone's mother-in-law, a somewhat despised class of person if ever there was one. :rolleyes:

 

I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that most understand that it is difficult to live with someone struggling with unregulated bipolar disorder or OCD (or BE someone struggling with bipolar disorder or OCD).

 

(Speaking only to NPD because I don't have experience with BPD) NPD family members victimize people. Us. They victimize us. And when we protest, they launch a campaign of wrath so thorough that - once we've gotten beyond the gaslighting - it's absurd.

 

I understand sociopaths/psychopaths lack the mechanism for empathy. I still have no sympathy for them when surveying the swath of destruction they leave in their wake, either. I realize some people find that unfair, uncharitable, etc.

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...and there's this subtle undertone that they are responsible for their own behaviors.

 

 

The reason why there is a subtle undertone that they are responsible for their own behaviour is that they are.

 

Why is it that they act crazy around their family and normal when they conveniently need to? This is why it's called "borderline."

 

As one person on this board put it to me (she works with mentally ill people):

 

Behavior begets behavior. If you learn to cope with your inner workings in one way, you tend to continue that path. I work with a Russian psychiatrist. He says there are very few borderlines in Russia. Many narcissistics, but few cutters etc. Why? Because very little time and effort is put on giving these people attention. No attention, no behavior.

 

 

There is a reason that meds can't help someone with BPD...because it's a behavioural issue. This is why psychiatrists work on behavioural techniques with them.

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I find these responses very interesting. It seems obvious who has been on the receiving end of a NPD. It's certainly not that I don't understand disorders. I have lived with people with depression and OCD, and dealt with others with a variety of issues. I have received help myself. As far as NPD, I can only speak to my experiences with my MIL, and I have no sympathy for her. My sympathy is reserved for her victims - her son, daughter and grandchildren. What she did to them while they were growing up is ... well, there are no words. As a result, they both have diagnosed conditions. When I first started dealing with her I had sympathy, and hope. Now, no, because I have realized that I can do one of two things - be sympathetic to her, hope she will get help and continue to allow her to hurt those I love, or be done with the crazy. After the viciousness of Christmas, guess what I choose...

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The reason why there is a subtle undertone that they are responsible for their own behaviour is that they are.

 

Why is it that they act crazy around their family and normal when they conveniently need to? This is why it's called "borderline."

 

As one person on this board put it to me (she works with mentally ill people):

 

Behavior begets behavior. If you learn to cope with your inner workings in one way, you tend to continue that path. I work with a Russian psychiatrist. He says there are very few borderlines in Russia. Many narcissistics, but few cutters etc. Why? Because very little time and effort is put on giving these people attention. No attention, no behavior.

 

 

 

There is a reason that meds can't help someone with BPD...because it's a behavioural issue. This is why psychiatrists work on behavioural techniques with them.

 

Oh my gosh, thank you. You have just clarified some things for me (and my husband). As being relatively new to dealing with this, it is so good to hear this perspective!

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family members victimize people. Us. They victimize us. And when we protest, they launch a campaign of wrath so thorough that - once we've gotten beyond the gaslighting - it's absurd.

 

I understand sociopaths/psychopaths lack the mechanism for empathy. I still have no sympathy for them when surveying the swath of destruction they leave in their wake, either. I realize some people find that unfair, uncharitable, etc.

 

These people can and do destroy lives (several generations). They steal holidays, and memories and use up good emotions. They generally get off without any repercussions. Criminal really.

I am sorry if you find discussing experiences and getting support to be bashing. I am a child of a BPD mother. I FEAR FEAR FEAR that I will treat my children like she treated me. I watch myself channeling her sometimes and I stop myself. I love listening to these stories. I see it as another way to create an early warning system. (when I feel like doing this--wait--- here is where it could lead).

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:iagree: And I find it more than a little disturbing that so much bashing goes on of people who have BPD, NPD and other personality disorders.

 

I hope I didn't make anyone's day harder.

 

I figure all people have a right to a basic level of respect and to be treated with dignity, including people with NPD, HPD and borderline personality disorder. I've never really believed that people choose to hurt their loved ones out of the joy of it, you know? They're hurt and need help and aren't succeeding in dealing with the world in a functional, helpful way.

 

I do see people throwing around these diagnoses as insults, too, and that disturbs me deeply. That's why I came here to ask. There is a hurt and angry person in my life who is throwing around the diagnosis like a weapon, and I needed to get some perspective on just what a real borderline looks like. I'm very grateful for everyone who gave me a story, a comparison, a real life scenario.

 

I'm surprised. I recognize someone I know in these stories and in the sites you've pointed me to, and it had never occurred to me that he might have this issue.

 

So thank you and I'm sorry to anyone with BPD who came here and felt their basic worth as a human being was being considered invalid or irrelevant or erased by their diagnosis.

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