S/O thread about which types of hs'ing families in your neighbourhood . . .

[Sweetpeach]

I did an outloud cheer when I read this from the thread about which sort of hs'ing families are near you:

 

"Only one other more rigorous hsing family here, and she put her older children into middle school and high school here. The others are either "relationships over academics" Christians or hippie-esque unschoolers, with a few boxed ABeka fans. We're too busy with college classes and orchestra to do much in the way of hsing groups any more. It's rather sad, actually. I miss those lovely days of trips to the lake..."

I didn't know my style of hs'ing had a title and I'm thrilled to know there are others out there like me! :) My goal is to build a solid relationship with all three of my children *and* give them a great education . . . for me, that doesn't mean translating Homer by 12th grade ;) but I would certainly consider us a "going to university unless you have a much better idea" family. My hub tells the kids he'll only pay for a math or engineering degree and I'm pretty sure he's not joking.

 

I wonder if the "relationship before academics" crowd would care to weigh in with their strategies to keep healthy relationship in tandem with careful academics? I refuse to make academics our family idol but I'm also of the mind that a solid academic foundation opens many doors.

 

I'm interested!

Warmly, Tricia

[JennW in SoCal]

The family relationship was always first and foremost in my homeschooling philosophy. To borrow your phrase, academics was never the family idol -- I was never the "rigorous academics" kind of mom who ran a 6 hour structured school day. But we weren't slackers either. Learning, exploring and engaging in the world around us is simply how we live life around here. We read aloud for years and now trade books with one another. We go to museums and plays for fun, go on guided tours and ask questions when we travel and if we don't know something, we look it up. During the active homeschool years we carved out daily time for formal academics, but my boys had the time to pursue their interests in depth.

 

Both boys are now fine young men who are gainfully employed, adored by their supervisors and who are excelling in college. The oldest will complete his college degree next year, the youngest is an A student at the community college where he is finishing his high school course work. He has been accepted so far to 2 competitive private liberal arts colleges for next fall (waiting for a decision from a 3rd), with very nice merit scholarships.

 

Best of all, though, is our family bond. We enjoy each others company and keep in close contact with the son who is living on the other side of the continent.

 

So yes you can put family before academics while still building that solid academic foundation. I have no regrets and only fond memories of our homeschooling years.

[angela in ohio]

I didn't know my style of hs'ing had a title and I'm thrilled to know there are others out there like me! :) My goal is to build a solid relationship with all three of my children *and* give them a great education . . .

 

This is where you differ from the group the OP was describing, imho. It's not realtionship AND academics (that describes many here, in fact, myself included,) it's relationship and fear of academics for many.

[Jane in NC]

 

I wonder if the "relationship before academics" crowd would care to weigh in with their strategies to keep healthy relationship in tandem with careful academics? I refuse to make academics our family idol but I'm also of the mind that a solid academic foundation opens many doors.

 

I'm interested!

Warmly, Tricia

 

If you were to take a survey of people who know me either IRL or virtually, I suspect that you would learn that I am Draconian by some standards, overly lenient by others. Such an indulgent mother--or is that too austere? Strict in terms of academics--but why didn't he take more AP exams?

 

I think what is lost in these labels is that I tried my best to do what was right for my son. Now some people assume that what I did for my son is my standard for their children. On the contrary. Most of us who homeschool, I would like to hope, are constantly balancing what is best for each of our children and our families with the reality (and limitations) of our lives.

 

There are people who would accuse me of making academics my "family idol" (although I really am not sure what that means) because I did insist that my son take AP Calculus. He does not particularly like math. Parents in my real life circles would have their students take College Algebra at the CC and be done with it. But I knew my sons goals. He attends a Liberal Arts College that does not accept CC credits. But they would accept a sufficient AP score. We battled our way through Calculus but now he thanks me that he has fulfilled his math credit. It was, unfortunately for this Math Mom, a means to an end.

 

Did I explain my motivation to the casual observer? No. Frankly it was none of their business. Yet I might have been accused by some of being overly zealous with academics. Oh well.

 

So my recommendation to you is to determine what is right for each individual within your family and proceed from there. For all you know, one of your children may ask to translate Homer.

 

Back to those family relationships: for some that means that children do not leave the nest. Not for us! Our son is becoming a fine young adult with his own interests. As much as I enjoy his company, it would hinder his spirit if he were to live at home while attending college. The key to healthy relationships with teens and young adults is to listen, talk, and listen some more. Respect ideas. Neither party should make unreasonable demands--except for Calculus. ;)

[Carrie12345]

Oh, I think there's a very big difference.

 

I have approximately 5 top reasons for homeschooling, along with a bunch of secondaries. I needn't pick just one.

It's kind of like... how I have 5 kids, and can love all of them without taking away from any of them.

[Sweetpeach]

Yes, it's a false dichotomy: that you can't have relationships AND academics. When you have a mom that tells you that (for the third year) that they "just couldn't get to math because they're building a new church building", something is out of whack.

 

Certainly!

If you consider your teaching philosophy to be wildly academic and your mothering-style to be fabulously relational, how do you respectfully draw your child forward so that the relationship stays intact when the going gets tough with school? It reminds me of another thread awhile ago about boys being mostly under the tutelage of mom and how that effects their growing up years, into middle school and beyond.

Is it possible to help your children soar academically without relying on draconian tactics to get them there. These are the strategies I want to know about!

Warmly, Tricia

Edited January 9, 2012 by Sweetpeach
typs

[Sweetpeach]

If you were to take a survey of people who know me either IRL or virtually, I suspect that you would learn that I am Draconian by some standards, overly lenient by others. Such an indulgent mother--or is that too austere? Strict in terms of academics--but why didn't he take more AP exams?

 

I think what is lost in these labels is that I tried my best to do what was right for my son. Now some people assume that what I did for my son is my standard for their children. On the contrary. Most of us who homeschool, I would like to hope, are constantly balancing what is best for each of our children and our families with the reality (and limitations) of our lives.

 

There are people who would accuse me of making academics my "family idol" (although I really am not sure what that means) because I did insist that my son take AP Calculus. He does not particularly like math. Parents in my real life circles would have their students take College Algebra at the CC and be done with it. But I knew my sons goals. He attends a Liberal Arts College that does not accept CC credits. But they would accept a sufficient AP score. We battled our way through Calculus but now he thanks me that he has fulfilled his math credit. It was, unfortunately for this Math Mom, a means to an end.

 

Did I explain my motivation to the casual observer? No. Frankly it was none of their business. Yet I might have been accused by some of being overly zealous with academics. Oh well.

 

So my recommendation to you is to determine what is right for each individual within your family and proceed from there. For all you know, one of your children may ask to translate Homer.

 

Back to those family relationships: for some that means that children do not leave the nest. Not for us! Our son is becoming a fine young adult with his own interests. As much as I enjoy his company, it would hinder his spirit if he were to live at home while attending college. The key to healthy relationships with teens and young adults is to listen, talk, and listen some more. Respect ideas. Neither party should make unreasonable demands--except for Calculus. ;)

 

Yes, this in blue is what I'm looking for to encourage my own journey. I want all of my kids to soar with whatever talent they have in them, but at some point, it becomes hard work. I want to listen, talk, listen some more and also, get the work done. (I thinking specifically of the AofPS challenge sets that my son has to complete; loves math but he can totally get his knickers in a knot when he bumps up against a concept he doesn't get right away!)

I wonder how mothers help their young men keep their momentum moving in a forward motion without being overbearing, reactionary etc etc. Or, does the end justify the means, as you state above with calculus. It's just so hard to know the next few steps, how hard to push, if I should push at all as we find ourselves in the middle school years.

Warmly, Tricia

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I have found that focusing on academics and working on getting my children prepared to lead their own lives someday, our relationships have naturally improved. I know so much more about their strengths and weaknesses, their likes and dislikes than before when they were in school all day. I see it as a continuum, working on relationships and academics (and social skills, and household management skills, etc.) simultaneously. It's not an either/or situation for me.

[DawnM]

I agree with most of you in most ways. We don't have the stipulation of only getting a math or science degree as we truly wish each boy to pursue his passion rather than our dictates.

 

We also have one son with some learning disabilities. He has stretched us and helped us to see that not all people are cut from the same mold and maybe, just maybe, an Art degree WILL allow one to get a job.

 

We are not overly strong on academics. We don't' expect each boy to be 3 grade levels ahead of his peers and spend hours a day reading Homer in the original Greek by age 14. :lol:

 

We expect each boy to do his best and to pursue the talents that God has enabled him to do.

 

Dawn

[momsuz123]

I have found that focusing on academics and working on getting my children prepared to lead their own lives someday, our relationships have naturally improved. I know so much more about their strengths and weaknesses, their likes and dislikes than before when they were in school all day. I see it as a continuum, working on relationships and academics (and social skills, and household management skills, etc.) simultaneously. It's not an either/or situation for me.

 

 

:iagree:I am new to hsing this year and loving it (for the most part). I am still finding my way. I really want to nurture my relationships with my kids and really help guide them to reach their full potential. We do a lot of academics even on the weekends - but it is all in the name of fun (they are really young still). It is becoming a way of our life and they don't complain about doing science experiments every weekend (yet).

[Sweetpeach]

Hi MomSuz123 -- yes, when my children were younger, academics was just regular life around here. Enjoy these years -- it seems they slip away super quickly.

 

As the boys get older, the work load progresses and it has become harder for me to keep school fresh. Sometimes, it feels like a slog and they both moan and groan.

 

I'm trying to navigate my way along that and wonder how other families with teenage men have managed to keep academics at the forefront without banging compliance into them.

 

What sort of key phrases do you use? For ie, we used "First Things First" for the longest time. University is a long ways off, so I can't really say: do this so you can get into university? That wouldn't have motivated me as a 7th grader.

 

Warmly, Tricia

[Jane in NC]

Certainly!

If you consider your teaching philosophy to be wildly academic and your mothering-style to be fabulously relational, how do you respectfully draw your child forward so that the relationship stays intact when the going gets tough with school? It reminds me of another thread awhile ago about boys being mostly under the tutelage of mom and how that effects their growing up years, into middle school and beyond.

Is it possible to help your children soar academically without relying on draconian tactics to get them there. These are the strategies I want to know about!

 

Perhaps some of us lead lives that are academic by nature so this dichotomy that you see is not apparent to us?

 

Admittedly my son is a reader so I never related to posters whose children argue over assigned reading. That was never an issue in our home. In fact, if I asked my son at age 14 would you prefer to read Herodotus or Thucydides, he would have said both.

 

Writing was another story. Nan and I have written repeatedly on how our boys would argue over writing assignments. If they just sat down to tackle them, they would have been finished long before their argument against the assignment wound up! So the question becomes is the young man manipulating his parent/teacher to avoid the work or does he have a legitimate complaint? I found that by listening, he often did have reasonable issues. This might lead to a change in the assignment--or not. By the time my son was in 11th grade, I knew that someone else had to be involved. Thus he was registered in a Basic Composition course at the community college. Worries that I had over my son's writing proved to be without merit.

 

A study was released last week that indicates teens who argue with their parents are actually better off in the long run. When placed in challenging peer settings, kids who have argued with parents have learned to take a stand for themselves and not just follow peers.

 

I am not suggesting that school should be a battleground, but some discussion as the students take charge of their academics may be expected for some personalities.

 

Yes, this in blue is what I'm looking for to encourage my own journey. I want all of my kids to soar with whatever talent they have in them, but at some point, it becomes hard work. I want to listen, talk, listen some more and also, get the work done. (I thinking specifically of the AofPS challenge sets that my son has to complete; loves math but he can totally get his knickers in a knot when he bumps up against a concept he doesn't get right away!)

I wonder how mothers help their young men keep their momentum moving in a forward motion without being overbearing, reactionary etc etc. Or, does the end justify the means, as you state above with calculus. It's just so hard to know the next few steps, how hard to push, if I should push at all as we find ourselves in the middle school years.

Warmly, Tricia

 

Getting the work done may require setting consequences, particularly for your 8th or 9th grader who is not accustomed to the growing work load of high school. When my son was given a weekly list of assignments, he would do all of his reading, history, and science during the earlier part of the week, leaving writing assignments until Friday which meant they would not get done. So I did some hand holding. I gave him daily assignments for Math, set up appointments during the week for writing, etc. So perhaps on Monday or Tuesday he would present me with a general outline or a topic sentence or some aspect of written work that served as a foundation. The next day he would build on previous work. This sort of hand holding did not last for all of high school. Your thirteen year old is not your sixteen year old. But habits that are established at thirteen can remain. And weekends do not bring automatic breaks. If the work was not done, well Sunday afternoon was a fine time to finish it.

 

Knickers in a knot? This can be a good thing for some personalities as it inspires them to move forward. If he is just in a rut and digging himself deeper, then he needs to switch gears. At age 13 or 14, I would toss my son outside and suggest that he go off with a cast net to catch dinner for the birds at the rehab center or go rollerblading or bike riding. Do something physical! It is the rare boy at this age who does not need to blow some steam. And I did not supervise this--I just sent him off.

 

Essentially your son needs to be the one pushing himself. I think our role as parents is to help our kids find their passions. This does not mean that they necessarily embrace our passions or live the lives we want them to live.

[elegantlion]

 

What sort of key phrases do you use? For ie, we used "First Things First" for the longest time. University is a long ways off, so I can't really say: do this so you can get into university? That wouldn't have motivated me as a 7th grader.

 

Warmly, Tricia

 

My son is 8th and we're beginning the journey of increased academic work. I don't think there are key phrases for us. We've spent years building a atmosphere of open communication in our schooling/relationship.

 

Our family is not naturally academically inclined, so there has been some meeting of the minds along the way. The bottom line is: it is my job to educate him, it is his job to embrace that and make it his own.

 

We started having discussion in 7th about college, about high school, about work load. This semester were upping the expectations again, but it's not unexpected. We've been discussing it along the way, it's a natural next step by now.

 

Ds has a current passion/hobby that takes a lot of time. I'm still working on the balance of time for himself to explore that passion, and maintain the academic expectations.

 

A lot of what we do now is simply the next step up because we've had those gradual increases along the way.

[Sweetpeach]

Jane in NC . . . I've been reading over my posts from the past few years and I think you've thrown your pearls my way before about the same issue . . . keeping academics and relationship in the sandbox.

 

Yes to appointment making . . . with a big assignment due on Friday, I'll make an appointment to check his progress.

 

Yes to hand-holding . . . my middle disappears without the nudge and encouragement and I forget that he's 11 and not 14. Thank you for reminding me that my expectations have to line up with his ability.

 

Both of my boys get lots of exercise via their paddle training. Perhaps I need to teach them to take a quick jaunt around the neighbourhood, have a shower and a hot cuppa tea etc etc . . . some strategies that will help when the slogging gets tough.

 

Thanks for chiming in. I'm always so appreciative of your kind words.

 

Warmly, Tricia

[Nan in Mass]

It isn't an either-or situation, nor will what works for one child and family be right for another. I think there are some general things that you can keep in mind. Jane's listen-listen-talk-listen is the biggest. And she is right about listening carefully enough to decide how much of the complaining is just not wanting to do something and how much is not being able to do something or not knowing how to do something. This is where your relationship stands you in good stead. Basically, the child has to "buy in", as my father would say - he has to agree to do the work. By high school, a child that really doesn't want to do something is perfectly capable of really not doing it, no matter what sorts of consequences you impose. That doesn't mean that you can't help bolster the child's not yet mature self-discipline and planning skills. It doesn't mean the child is going to love everything he does or try his hardest at everything. One of the things you can do to help teenagers is acknowledge which subjects are just chores, things they are doing because they trust you when you say they need to do them. They are more likely to cooperate if you agree to let them put more time and effort into the subjects that are interesting to them or important to their own current goals, and less time and effort into things they dislike or don't see as important. One of the nice things about homeschooling is that you can choose how you want to cover the basics. Plugging through an intro-level textbook is a pretty efficient way of covering something something fast.

 

Be wary of putting lots of time and effort into custom-designing a course. It is likely to lead to hurt feelings on your part if it involves teenagers. If it is something the teenager wants to learn, he is likely to have strong ideas about how he wants to learn it, and if it is something he doesn't want to learn, then he isn't going to put enough effort into following your plan and you will wind up feeling unhappy. There is nothing wrong with saying, "We are going to study this because I want to learn it. I work hard redoing high school all over again so you can homeschool. Studying this with me is a way you can say thank-you." It is, however, not a very good idea to expect your children to be spontaniously grateful to you for all the hard work you do homeschooling them, especially if they have mixed feelings about homeschooling in the first place (something fairly common). They didn't ask you to sacrifice years of your life to homeschool them. They don't want to think that they are a burden.

 

If you don't want to homeschool them, if you aren't enjoying at least some of it, it probably would be better for both of you if you found some way to outsource their education, somehow. That doesn't necessarily mean sending them to the public high school, but it might very well mean finding some sort of online or correspondence school, if they aren't mature enough to educate themselves. Even just outsourcing one class can be beneficial to the relationship. If your family is like my family, one or two classes account for most of the friction. If you can outsource those, you may find that the student has a few he can do independently and that leaves you with only a few courses to teach. We have found that ours needed to learn to learn from a textbook and learn to learn in a classroom situation. That meant using outsourcing as a transition between home and college. (We used community college classes.)

 

A major source of friction between teenagers and parents is teenagers not being able to do things. That might seem laughably obvious, but when you apply it to homeschooling, it isn't so. When you know how to do something and are good at it, it becomes easy to do. When you don't know how to do something or are bad at it, it is hard to do. If you make sure your middle schooler has strong basic academic skills, it will make homeschooling high school more amicable. I'm not talking about knowledge, but about skills. A good part of that busy-work that public schools do is meant to build basic skills like remembering to put a header on one's paper and being able to write down and follow directions and being able to pick out the main point of a paragraph or chapter. These take practice. They are boring. This is where being Draconian is important. This is where being Draconian when your children are little is important. If you wait until high school to teach these skills, it will cause much more friction than if you do it gradually beforehand. People are much more likely to like things that they can do easily than things that they can't do easily. Obviously, high school is an important time for advancing academic skills, but if the student has basic academic skills, it is easier to improve them AND discuss history and literature, cover math through calculus, become proficient in a foreign language or two, and absorb the masses of information and skills involved in science and technology, all at the same time, AND let the child work on his own enough to satisfy his (perfectly appropriate) teenage need for growing independence. A teenager who has basic academic skills is able to do his schoolwork more independently and with less time and effort than one who does not.

 

Jane brings up another good point - going away. We found that our relationship with our teenagers was much better if we let them spend plenty of time away from us. For our family, that meant letting our children go live elsewhere for several weeks or months of the year. That made them happy to hop onto a 30 foot boat and be trapped literally within arm's reach of us for 5 weeks every summer. We also encouraged ours to go away to college. They will probably live with us afterwards, but even if they picked a near-by college, we would encourage them to live in the dorms. When the student knows his parents are working with him to make him independent and adult, that helps the student to feel less misunderstood.

 

Feeling misunderstood, feeling incompetent, and feeling overwhelmed are all things that can contribute to friction over homeschooling high school. Make sure your teenagers feel that they can talk to you about those feelings and that you are willing to do something to change things. That doesn't mean you do their work for them, but it does mean that you work with them to adjust their work-load until they have learned whatever it is that will make the their work-load easier.

 

Most teenagers feel better about themselves if they are contributing to their family and to the world somehow. That helps decrease friction and gives them confidence to tackle their schoolwork. It also helps them to see why they are working hard at the academics.

 

I agree with Jane about academics being easier to accomplish if one's family is fairly academic. If all the adults never do anything academic and never use their own academic education, it is hard to convince the soon-to-be adults to go to waste all that time and effort on something so useless-seeming.

 

This is a good time to find things that you both like to do together, too. My family, including my father, recently took up cribbage because it is something we can do with our oldest (24) that he enjoys. We take the middle one (21) out for sushi and do crossword puzzles while we wait. We play Traders of Carthage with the youngest (17). They all say all they want for Christmas is the annual family ski trip. Find something that builds good memories, fun memories.

 

Just some ideas... As I said, it is a tricky balance. In general, I feel successful if my children were alive and still talking to me at the end of the day. Sigh.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

...As the boys get older, the work load progresses and it has become harder for me to keep school fresh. Sometimes, it feels like a slog and they both moan and groan.

 

I'm trying to navigate my way along that and wonder how other families with teenage men have managed to keep academics at the forefront without banging compliance into them.

 

What sort of key phrases do you use? For ie, we used "First Things First" for the longest time. University is a long ways off, so I can't really say: do this so you can get into university? That wouldn't have motivated me as a 7th grader.

 

Warmly, Tricia

 

We make a clear distinction between "school" and "nonschool". With different children, I might not have needed to do this, but with fairly non-academic boys, this has been necessary. School = Work. Everyone has to work, either by doing school or by working. "So you can go to college" had more of a negative effect until ours were past 9th or 10th grade. We had better luck with "because adults have to know how to do this". We have school hours, after which they are free. As they got older, that changed to having school hours and then having assignments that they had to do to prepare for school the next day (homework). I never had much luck getting mine to work independently on more than one or two assignments at a time. Other people have. That was something I was unable to accomplish without it causing more family strife than I considered it worth. I had nothing to do with their community college classes, other than help them choose them and show them how to do things at college. I let them learn to manage their assignments independently through those classes. Having school hours cut down on a major amount of friction in my house. So did acknowledging that all of us would rather be working on our own projects.

 

Nan

[sassenach]

I did an outloud cheer when I read this from the thread about which sort of hs'ing families are near you:

 

"Only one other more rigorous hsing family here, and she put her older children into middle school and high school here. The others are either "relationships over academics" Christians or hippie-esque unschoolers, with a few boxed ABeka fans. We're too busy with college classes and orchestra to do much in the way of hsing groups any more. It's rather sad, actually. I miss those lovely days of trips to the lake..."

I didn't know my style of hs'ing had a title and I'm thrilled to know there are others out there like me! :) My goal is to build a solid relationship with all three of my children *and* give them a great education . . . for me, that doesn't mean translating Homer by 12th grade ;) but I would certainly consider us a "going to university unless you have a much better idea" family. My hub tells the kids he'll only pay for a math or engineering degree and I'm pretty sure he's not joking.

 

I wonder if the "relationship before academics" crowd would care to weigh in with their strategies to keep healthy relationship in tandem with careful academics? I refuse to make academics our family idol but I'm also of the mind that a solid academic foundation opens many doors.

 

I'm interested!

Warmly, Tricia

 

I think she meant that phrase as "relationships with others over academics," which is different than "relationship with my child over academics." Because I want my kids to have a good education, I have to set limits on how much of my (our) time can be spent serving and connecting with others. As a pastoral family, that's an extra hard line to draw.

 

As for the child/parent relationship, that became an issue in the middle school years, which frankly sucked. Each family is unique, so I don't think there is a magic pill for those years. Our solution was to no longer homeschool, and it is a decision that I have zero regrets about.

[Colleen in NS]

I wonder how mothers help their young men keep their momentum moving in a forward motion without being overbearing, reactionary etc etc.

 

Many days, it is one minute/one lesson, one day at a time. There are many days when I sit there on the couch while going through a grammar or Latin lesson with ds, secretly looking at the clock, and trying not to panic about the list I have yet to go through with dd next (or the laundry I forgot to put in the dryer, or the bread I need to make this afternoon, or the receipts that need to get entered into the budget, or....). And then I step back and see that ds is concentrating hard on puzzling through the grammar exercise or Latin translation, and I have to just wait. If I start to get impatient, he starts to get antsy and frustrated. I have perfected the art of deep-breathing quietly, lol!

 

I also have learned how to make him laugh. If I can make him laugh, it relaxes him for the moment so that he can move forward or realize that it's not all that bad. Lately I've been saying, "Oh, stop giving me your 'thirteen-er-isms!" He thinks that's hilarious.

 

I also remind him periodically about the specific benefits of the lessons to his future adulthood. "Remember, ds, when I explained to you that grammar will help you to think more clearly, understand communication better, and express yourself better? It's still true - that fact hasn't changed." Or, "Yes, ds, I hear that you think these writing lessons can't possibly have anything to do with your hoped-for future in math. But, how are you going to explain math concepts to anyone else, unless you know how to express yourself? Writing skills are thinking skills, and they will help you with math."

 

What sort of key phrases do you use?

 

"I know, ds, that you'd rather do algebra all day and never do Latin again, but remember how you liked figuring out all those Latin grammar forms a few months ago? And remember when you explained to me how it related to English grammar? Wasn't that neat?" (he tells me it was actually boring and he doesn't care anymore; but he's now distracted from his original complaint, and he knows I was listening)

 

"I know, ds, that you are tired. It's because you're almost 14 and growing like a weed. Would you like to sleep instead of read after lunch today? No? Alright, that's fine, it's your decision." (smile)

 

"I know, ds, that you'd rather read programming books all the time now, and I'm glad you have a computer to practice programming on. Now, which of these three new literature stories from the library would you like to read for the next half hour? Here, let me read the first paragraph to you....Just half hour, and then you can read programming books to your heart's content." (an hour later, he has forgotten the programming books temporarily)

 

"You want to tell me about the latest program you've created? Alright, go for it - but I might need you to explain some things along the way." (this really makes him light up, and then he knows that I am interested in what he is passionate about)

 

Both of my boys get lots of exercise via their paddle training. Perhaps I need to teach them to take a quick jaunt around the neighbourhood, have a shower and a hot cuppa tea etc etc . . . some strategies that will help when the slogging gets tough.

 

My kids know what snacks they can go get for themselves in the mornings and afternoons (usually fruit and muffins). But sometimes, for the especially difficult days when they are tired/sick of school/frustrated about a lesson/whatever, I say, "Alright, I've had it. WHO WANTS COOKIES????? (or whatever "treat" happens to be in the house) Bring some for me, too!!" (kids run to the kitchen, deep scowls having changed to relieved smiles)

[Sweetpeach]

Jane in NC and Nan in Mass . . . thank you for your kind, encouraging words. I'm in the middle of a math crazy stretch today, so I don't have time at this exact moment to process all of the advice your offered. Thank you for taking time to help me in my moment of need. I'll will print out your posts and carefully match up our day-to-day realities with the advice you've offered and get back to you with some of solutions.

Warmly, Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

Many days, it is one minute/one lesson, one day at a time. There are many days when I sit there on the couch while going through a grammar or Latin lesson with ds, secretly looking at the clock, and trying not to panic about the list I have yet to go through with dd next (or the laundry I forgot to put in the dryer, or the bread I need to make this afternoon, or the receipts that need to get entered into the budget, or....). And then I step back and see that ds is concentrating hard on puzzling through the grammar exercise or Latin translation, and I have to just wait. If I start to get impatient, he starts to get antsy and frustrated. I have perfected the art of deep-breathing quietly, lol!

 

I also have learned how to make him laugh. If I can make him laugh, it relaxes him for the moment so that he can move forward or realize that it's not all that bad. Lately I've been saying, "Oh, stop giving me your 'thirteen-er-isms!" He thinks that's hilarious.

 

I also remind him periodically about the specific benefits of the lessons to his future adulthood. "Remember, ds, when I explained to you that grammar will help you to think more clearly, understand communication better, and express yourself better? It's still true - that fact hasn't changed." Or, "Yes, ds, I hear that you think these writing lessons can't possibly have anything to do with your hoped-for future in math. But, how are you going to explain math concepts to anyone else, unless you know how to express yourself? Writing skills are thinking skills, and they will help you with math."

 

 

 

"I know, ds, that you'd rather do algebra all day and never do Latin again, but remember how you liked figuring out all those Latin grammar forms a few months ago? And remember when you explained to me how it related to English grammar? Wasn't that neat?" (he tells me it was actually boring and he doesn't care anymore; but he's now distracted from his original complaint, and he knows I was listening)

 

"I know, ds, that you are tired. It's because you're almost 14 and growing like a weed. Would you like to sleep instead of read after lunch today? No? Alright, that's fine, it's your decision." (smile)

 

"I know, ds, that you'd rather read programming books all the time now, and I'm glad you have a computer to practice programming on. Now, which of these three new literature stories from the library would you like to read for the next half hour? Here, let me read the first paragraph to you....Just half hour, and then you can read programming books to your heart's content." (an hour later, he has forgotten the programming books temporarily)

 

"You want to tell me about the latest program you've created? Alright, go for it - but I might need you to explain some things along the way." (this really makes him light up, and then he knows that I am interested in what he is passionate about)

 

 

 

My kids know what snacks they can go get for themselves in the mornings and afternoons (usually fruit and muffins). But sometimes, for the especially difficult days when they are tired/sick of school/frustrated about a lesson/whatever, I say, "Alright, I've had it. WHO WANTS COOKIES????? (or whatever "treat" happens to be in the house) Bring some for me, too!!" (kids run to the kitchen, deep scowls having changed to relieved smiles)

 

 

Colleen in NS, thank you for taking time to respond to my thread. Your kind tone delivered via this public thread is appreciated.

Warmly, Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

Perhaps some of us lead lives that are academic by nature so this dichotomy that you see is not apparent to us?

 

Admittedly my son is a reader so I never related to posters whose children argue over assigned reading. That was never an issue in our home. In fact, if I asked my son at age 14 would you prefer to read Herodotus or Thucydides, he would have said both.

 

Writing was another story. Nan and I have written repeatedly on how our boys would argue over writing assignments. If they just sat down to tackle them, they would have been finished long before their argument against the assignment wound up! So the question becomes is the young man manipulating his parent/teacher to avoid the work or does he have a legitimate complaint? I found that by listening, he often did have reasonable issues. This might lead to a change in the assignment--or not. By the time my son was in 11th grade, I knew that someone else had to be involved. Thus he was registered in a Basic Composition course at the community college. Worries that I had over my son's writing proved to be without merit.

 

A study was released last week that indicates teens who argue with their parents are actually better off in the long run. When placed in challenging peer settings, kids who have argued with parents have learned to take a stand for themselves and not just follow peers.

 

I am not suggesting that school should be a battleground, but some discussion as the students take charge of their academics may be expected for some personalities.

 

 

 

Getting the work done may require setting consequences, particularly for your 8th or 9th grader who is not accustomed to the growing work load of high school. When my son was given a weekly list of assignments, he would do all of his reading, history, and science during the earlier part of the week, leaving writing assignments until Friday which meant they would not get done. So I did some hand holding. I gave him daily assignments for Math, set up appointments during the week for writing, etc. So perhaps on Monday or Tuesday he would present me with a general outline or a topic sentence or some aspect of written work that served as a foundation. The next day he would build on previous work. This sort of hand holding did not last for all of high school. Your thirteen year old is not your sixteen year old. But habits that are established at thirteen can remain. And weekends do not bring automatic breaks. If the work was not done, well Sunday afternoon was a fine time to finish it.

 

Knickers in a knot? This can be a good thing for some personalities as it inspires them to move forward. If he is just in a rut and digging himself deeper, then he needs to switch gears. At age 13 or 14, I would toss my son outside and suggest that he go off with a cast net to catch dinner for the birds at the rehab center or go rollerblading or bike riding. Do something physical! It is the rare boy at this age who does not need to blow some steam. And I did not supervise this--I just sent him off.

 

Essentially your son needs to be the one pushing himself. I think our role as parents is to help our kids find their passions. This does not mean that they necessarily embrace our passions or live the lives we want them to live.

 

Dear Jane in NC . . . I'm usually super quick to fire off a response, but I've sat on this thread for more than a week now . . . watching myself and watching our family do our days together. My oldest Mr is very capable of pushing himself and he does. He gets the crazy math finished, he sat for hours this week playing with electronic stuff and figuring out how capacitors and resistors (and all that stuff that I could care less about anytime ever) and I backed off and let him have at it. I want to read books, read poetry, learn languages; neither of my boys sail that boat.

 

A big level of my "stress" is they aren't doing what I think they should be doing. When I stepped back from myself and watched what was happening, the boys were getting math done, they were reading history and talking about what they were reading, mapping, playing guitar, getting lots of exercise and fresh air.

 

I'm realizing that school is so much more than what happens when I'm "teaching" something . . . do I trust that they are absorbing what they need in the moment. Something must be working because my oldest said to me a few days ago that he'd like to be a math student for a long time. He's looking fwd to the next AofPS course, enjoys Khan Academy, loves coming alongside his younger brother as we're working in Pre-Alg.

 

Neither of them love writing but both will do it -- what I realized from your post is "hand-holding" is not a bad thing. I've done lots of hand-holding so that this math Challenge Set gets done without a family melt-down and we're all happier.

 

I guess I always need to be looking at my expectations and what is motivating me in our homeschool. If they are bucking my wishes, my first obstacle is to listen listen listen and see what it is that is pushing them to frustration. In a non-emotional way, assess whether the boys are pushing back due to human deficiencies of laziness/procrastination or if they really are climbing a wall that feels difficult and then, how can I creatively come alongside?

 

I took 10 deep breaths many times this past week, re-read your comments (along with Nan in Mass') and I think I've got enough in me to carry on for a stretch.

 

Thank you.

With gratitude,

Tricia

[Crimson Wife]

I get annoyed when I hear Christian HSers say in a smug, self-righteous tone: "I'd rather my children get into Heaven than into Harvard". I feel like smacking them because the two destinations are not mutually exclusive. :tongue_smilie:

[Sweetpeach]

It doesn't mean the child is going to love everything he does or try his hardest at everything. One of the things you can do to help teenagers is acknowledge which subjects are just chores, things they are doing because they trust you when you say they need to do them. They are more likely to cooperate if you agree to let them put more time and effort into the subjects that are interesting to them or important to their own current goals, and less time and effort into things they dislike or don't see as important. One of the nice things about homeschooling is that you can choose how you want to cover the basics. Plugging through an intro-level textbook is a pretty efficient way of covering something something fast.

 

Be wary of putting lots of time and effort into custom-designing a course. It is likely to lead to hurt feelings on your part if it involves teenagers. If it is something the teenager wants to learn, he is likely to have strong ideas about how he wants to learn it, and if it is something he doesn't want to learn, then he isn't going to put enough effort into following your plan and you will wind up feeling unhappy. There is nothing wrong with saying, "We are going to study this because I want to learn it. I work hard redoing high school all over again so you can homeschool. Studying this with me is a way you can say thank-you." It is, however, not a very good idea to expect your children to be spontaniously grateful to you for all the hard work you do homeschooling them, especially if they have mixed feelings about homeschooling in the first place (something fairly common). They didn't ask you to sacrifice years of your life to homeschool them. They don't want to think that they are a burden.

 

If you don't want to homeschool them, if you aren't enjoying at least some of it, it probably would be better for both of you if you found some way to outsource their education, somehow. That doesn't necessarily mean sending them to the public high school, but it might very well mean finding some sort of online or correspondence school, if they aren't mature enough to educate themselves. Even just outsourcing one class can be beneficial to the relationship. If your family is like my family, one or two classes account for most of the friction. If you can outsource those, you may find that the student has a few he can do independently and that leaves you with only a few courses to teach. We have found that ours needed to learn to learn from a textbook and learn to learn in a classroom situation. That meant using outsourcing as a transition between home and college. (We used community college classes.)

 

A major source of friction between teenagers and parents is teenagers not being able to do things. That might seem laughably obvious, but when you apply it to homeschooling, it isn't so. When you know how to do something and are good at it, it becomes easy to do. When you don't know how to do something or are bad at it, it is hard to do. If you make sure your middle schooler has strong basic academic skills, it will make homeschooling high school more amicable. I'm not talking about knowledge, but about skills. A good part of that busy-work that public schools do is meant to build basic skills like remembering to put a header on one's paper and being able to write down and follow directions and being able to pick out the main point of a paragraph or chapter. These take practice. They are boring. This is where being Draconian is important. This is where being Draconian when your children are little is important. If you wait until high school to teach these skills, it will cause much more friction than if you do it gradually beforehand. People are much more likely to like things that they can do easily than things that they can't do easily. Obviously, high school is an important time for advancing academic skills, but if the student has basic academic skills, it is easier to improve them AND discuss history and literature, cover math through calculus, become proficient in a foreign language or two, and absorb the masses of information and skills involved in science and technology, all at the same time, AND let the child work on his own enough to satisfy his (perfectly appropriate) teenage need for growing independence. A teenager who has basic academic skills is able to do his schoolwork more independently and with less time and effort than one who does not.

 

Jane brings up another good point - going away. We found that our relationship with our teenagers was much better if we let them spend plenty of time away from us. For our family, that meant letting our children go live elsewhere for several weeks or months of the year. That made them happy to hop onto a 30 foot boat and be trapped literally within arm's reach of us for 5 weeks every summer. We also encouraged ours to go away to college. They will probably live with us afterwards, but even if they picked a near-by college, we would encourage them to live in the dorms. When the student knows his parents are working with him to make him independent and adult, that helps the student to feel less misunderstood.

 

Feeling misunderstood, feeling incompetent, and feeling overwhelmed are all things that can contribute to friction over homeschooling high school. Make sure your teenagers feel that they can talk to you about those feelings and that you are willing to do something to change things. That doesn't mean you do their work for them, but it does mean that you work with them to adjust their work-load until they have learned whatever it is that will make the their work-load easier.

 

Most teenagers feel better about themselves if they are contributing to their family and to the world somehow. That helps decrease friction and gives them confidence to tackle their schoolwork. It also helps them to see why they are working hard at the academics.

 

I agree with Jane about academics being easier to accomplish if one's family is fairly academic. If all the adults never do anything academic and never use their own academic education, it is hard to convince the soon-to-be adults to go to waste all that time and effort on something so useless-seeming.

 

This is a good time to find things that you both like to do together, too. My family, including my father, recently took up cribbage because it is something we can do with our oldest (24) that he enjoys. We take the middle one (21) out for sushi and do crossword puzzles while we wait. We play Traders of Carthage with the youngest (17). They all say all they want for Christmas is the annual family ski trip. Find something that builds good memories, fun memories.

 

Just some ideas... As I said, it is a tricky balance. In general, I feel successful if my children were alive and still talking to me at the end of the day. Sigh.

 

Nan

 

Hi Nan, I humbly thank you for taking time to write out this post. I have never figured out the beauty of multi-quoting in a post . . . in any case, I've used your wise words and applied to my situation.

 

Blue: Math is a huge chore to me. Writing is a huge chore to my boys. Funny that I didn't realize this until reading your post about 10 times. If I never had to look at a math textbook again, wouldn't I be a happy camper? My boys feel the same way about the endless reading that I do . . . they enjoy reading (certainly nothing I pick out for them) and don't enjoy writing (though they will do the WWS and history outlining - some days it's a grumble-fest). I react to their grumbling, but now, I can tell myself that the work they're bickering over feels like a chore that they don't want to do but know they need to do it. Your post helped me not take it all so seriously or personally. All of us understand that writing, reading, processing are important skills but there are going to be moments when they just don't want to do it. I have to be alright with that. If I had to go back in time and do math everyday, I'd complain to anyone that would listen.

 

Purple: Again, this is another epiphany that I only got after reading your post many times. I have poured my life into my children and we do life so our kids can have a great foundation with which to carry on into adult life. I admit, I do want them to be thankful, grateful to us and I didn't truly realize that expecting them to spontaneously break out in song and dance because of what we're putting on the table for them is an unrealistic expectation. Thank you -- this is a huge growing edge in my life.

 

Green: Yes, we outsourced Math this year. He's doing online math, we hired a tutor and my contribution is to correct the end-of-chapter problem sets. I can manage some correcting but I have no desire to try to teach math. I'm still teaching my youngers and their math grumbling triggers me everywhere because there are many days (even in AofPS Pre-Alg) that I just don't always get the whole thing. I feel like I'm squeezing my brain into a whole that doesn't fit so well, so they could at least "try" to stick with me. Again, way too emotional and expecting way too much from my boys.

 

Orange: Our boys spend lots and lots of time away from us. They paddle, they play, they do youth groups, they go snowboarding . . . we aren't a family that thinks everything has to happen inside our four walls. The truth is, I'd be batty.

[Sweetpeach]

and my final thoughts:

 

I really like your comments about doing hard things and it can be hard for young teens to find the strength to press into the hard stuff. I've done alot more hand-holding this week, let them enjoy what they enjoy and plod along with what feels harder or less enjoyable -- the key change this week has been with me. Change always begins with me. By backing off, not taking everything so darn personally, understanding that I have no right to expect anything from them by way of gratitude, that I'm doing what I'm doing as a homeschooler because I still think it's the right path - these tidbits have helped my headspace.

 

My boys don't want to go to public school. Believe me, I've asked them many times, even encouraged them to give it a try. They like their life at home, which I guess means they like me. :001_smile: I need to grow into this new chapter of what it means to be in relationship with my young teen man, my tweener man and keep things rolling in a positive way while maintaining academics that will keep the doors open in the future.

 

Thank you, Nan, for posting. The knotty, churning feeling in my stomach has decreased substantially.

 

With deep gratitude,

Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

I get annoyed when I hear Christian HSers say in a smug, self-righteous tone: "I'd rather my children get into Heaven than into Harvard". I feel like smacking them because the two destinations are not mutually exclusive. :tongue_smilie:

 

Self-righteous anything makes me crazy. I agree with you, Harvard and Heaven are both doable . . . can we do Harvard, Heaven and also be in good relationship with them for a lifetime?

 

The kids have to make their own choices about faith, and they have to decide how hard they want to push themselves academically . . . I can drive an agenda and make us all crazy or I can try to see where they are going, what is inside them that needs to surface so they can live a life that feels right for them.

 

As a mother, that's what a really want for our children.

 

Warmly, Tricia