Tarreymere Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 There is a co-op near my area that is soliciting for more participants. They listed this requirement: "Parents whose oldest participating child is not yet 8 are required to teach a class. If your oldest participating child is 8 or older, you are not required to teach a class. " I have kids older than eight but they are not interested. I read this as either an attempt to coerce parents into enrolling the older siblings of kids who are interested in a class or more likely as a not-very-subtle attempt to discourage parents whose oldest child is not yet eight (meaning that this is likely their first encounter with a co-op and that the thought of being required to teach a class would therefore be rather intimidating) from attempting to participate in this co-op. Clearly if it is their co-op they can require whatever they like, but the only rationales they have offered for this requirement is "We don't want a co-op where parents drop their kids at the door and leave" and that age eight is the 'preferred' age. They do offer classes for three and four year olds, presumably the younger siblings of the 'preferred' age kids. I am getting a bad vibe here. We will not be participating in this group now or in the future. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 That is really strange. My guess is it was started by a group of families with 9 year olds and those parents don't want to teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Two thoughts.... 1) There is a history of something there.... and if there is a history, there is drama, and if there is drama.... there will be more drama. 2) I would think that having parents with children older than 8 as teachers would be a good thing because they *might* be more experienced? Why would you want to encourage it the other way around? I think steering clear is a decision you won't regret, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would understand it more along the lines of: If you have younger kids, you will be required to remain on site teaching so you are present. Older kids, not so much a problem, they should be fine without a parent present, you can drop these off. Makes sense to me. Or, they may have many volunteers who want to teach older children, but are struggling to find somebody to teach the little ones. I can definitely sympathize with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah, I'm thinking there is a much easier way to get parents to not drop their kids at the door and leave. Maybe by stating something like "parents have to be onsite during classes and are expected to volunteer to help in various areas"............ I seriously got a strong sense that they were trying to exclude a certain group of potential families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Or, they may have many volunteers who want to teach older children, but are struggling to find somebody to teach the little ones. I can definitely sympathize with this. :iagree:....the younger ages tend to be the hardest to find teachers for....either parents with just older children don't want to mess with the younger ones anymore, been there done that, or the parents of the younger children 1. don't feel comfortable/ready to teach a bunch of children that age, or 2. They view this as more of a drop-n-ditch so won't volunteer to help. This policy prevents that from happening. If it's not for you, it's not for you. On the other hand, if you are interested, why not just ask the co-op board what the deal is what that policy. Everyone can't teach....there won't be enough kids to put into every class. Likely they just want people walking in the door knowing they HAVE to help in some function....thus the "co-op" and not just paid classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I can see a point . . . + Having very young kids around in the co-op requires more hands-on mom supervision. If a mom dropped of 3 kids ages 4, 6, 7, that sounds a lot like babysitting. + Younger kids require more teachers. One mom can handle a class of 10 10 year olds, but not 10 4 year olds. + The moms who run the coop probably have older kids, and they probably WANT other students of those older ages for co-learners for their own kids. + The co-op organizers likely views littler kid classes as enrichment but mostly babysitting/playgroup for younger siblings. (That's how I'd view *any* group activity for under 7-9 yrs old . . .) + It's probably hard to recruit moms to teach the little kids. I know it'd be hard to recruit me at this point in my life, lol. Can you try it out for a few weeks to see if it's worth it to you to teach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't read it as drama per se. We started our homeschool friendships with a group that was preschool homeschoolers. Well, eventually, we were the oldest kids left there. The group was known for little kids and people kept moving on. When we started an elementary age version, we were all younger elementary age kids and it was hard because there were all these parents of younger kids (4 and 5 yo) who were joining, but no older kids. The whole thing we wanted was for our kids to be in a diverse age group. Anyway, all I'm really saying is, it could be as simple as a need to encourage more age diversity by giving an incentive to older kid parents (hey, you don't have to teach!). Or it could be the opposite and there haven't been enough people who have wanted to teach the younger kids because there are too many new parents coming in who are nervous and unsure. I would just ask them why it's that way. It could so easily not be drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 See, I read it as not wanting those who are "homeschooling" preschool or kindergarten to join when their intention is to enroll in ps at traditional school age and leave. Several co-ops around here have an age requirement and it is mostly because they want you to be committed to homeschooling as a choice for the long haul. I would think this co-op had previously had an exodus of younger kids once they hit school age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Two thoughts....1) There is a history of something there.... and if there is a history, there is drama, and if there is drama.... there will be more drama. This was my first thought too. We have looked into joining co-ops over the years, but they always seem to have too much drama for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If it's like our co-op, the younger kids are the ones where you can do short, a few week classes at a time on a person's interest, so have more parents teach, while the parents of older kids generally want an actual class that will run a semester and have set goals, which requires having the same person or group of people teach every week. The 3-5 class at our co-op, for example, takes a different book every week and reads it out loud, does a craft, and a snack and then plays outside. A different person can lead that easily. The 'tweens, though, are working on a yearbook, which has a couple of adults facilitating, and at least one of them really needs to be there every week-which means that there are a lot of parents in the 'tween group who never teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Maybe find some homeschoolers in your area around your 'younger' age kids and get together with them for activities (sled riding-- maybe if you have snow!), field trips, ect. I personally never cared much for the 'larger' co-ops. Our older dc had so much more fun with a 'few' families when they were that age, and it was easy to put some 'educational' plans together, too. :) Just a thought! Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'm a scout leader. I always go after the parents ofr new and younger scouts to get involved in some way. Frankly, they don't know any better and might feel they should. After being there a year and seeing the lack of involvement (a sad state of affairs) by the parents of older, established boys they will feel too comfortable watching or, worse yet, dropping off. With that in mind I initially saw it as a tool to ensure survival of the group. Mind you, I'm typically way more cynical and would normally jump at the idea there has been drama. Just ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 hmm, I wouldn't immediately think drama. I think it just means they don't have enough teachers for the youngers. Perhaps the people who have been around long term have kids that are now older than 8 and they need to concentrate on teaching those harder classes. That is actually what I have seen in our girl scout troop and co-op. As we move along with our kids as they grow, we naturally move into the older classes. When new families start coming in with younger kids we need them to be running the younger kids classes. It seems pretty natural to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You could just ask the co-op leader to clarify what it means. Most co-ops have requirements of some sort. Ours require a parent to stay all morning (no dropping kids off and leaving which I totally understand) and to help in some of the classes or nursery. I think our co-op requires parents to teach too but it seems sort of randomized and based on interest. Maybe they've had a hard time getting other parents to share/volunteer for the teaching workload and so they've had to make a rule about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yup, as a co-op leader, I see this as worded in a way I wouldn't... although.... Younger children need a higher ratio of teachers to children. I would word it that if you had children in the under 8 classes, you must teach. Perhaps that's what they mean. 8 and under you may teach... but also you may fulfill your co-op responsibilities in other ways. I can't tell you how many people want to participate in a co-op, but by participation they mean show up to enjoy it. "Co-op" is part of a "cooperative" right? It's just not cooperating during class times :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 I can see asking the moms of the under eight group to be present during the group and to help out. I think it would be easier to just say "hey, if your kid is under eight you have to stick around and help". Or "we have a lot of kids in that age group and those classes are full but if you want you can offer to teach one and that will open up more slots". But this group WOULD allow a kid under eight into the under-eight classes, as long as the kid had an older sibling who was in the co-op too. When I questioned having new families teach right off the bat, without giving them some guidance about what to teach or what kinds of things are already taught, the only reply I got about it was something about how they have too many people who only want to teach things like crochet......which I still don't understand. If you don't want people to offer to teach crochet, maybe you could mention to inquiring families that you would really like to have someone offer a science class......even if it is for under eights? How do new families know what you have a need for if you don't talk to them and how would they know how to put together a proposal for a class? This co-op runs regular classes for kids under eight, IF those kids have older siblings who are active in the co-op. No outside kids under eight are allowed, even if the parent volunteers to help with the class. How do you read that? Is that an attempt to coerce older siblings into joining? I don't think so....they seem to have a large group of tweens and teens. In reflecting on it, I still see it as a way to keep out certain families, and I am leaning toward it being meant to keep out those families who homeschool K and might end up sending the child to a B&M school down the road. Just the kind of families who might continue homeschooling if they had some support and encouragement. Of course it is their co-op, but honestly now that they are sending out a call for participants I won't be signing up, even though my kids are old enough that I don't have to worry about teaching. My reason is because my seven year old homeschooled granddaughter is in tears that she is the oldest kid of her mom and therefore not eligible but my five year old could participate as long as my older kids are signed up. I just don't think it is fair. Even if my granddaughter ends up in public school down the road, (which is not the plan) I don't think that being her mom's oldest kid should make her a pariah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I read it as a response to a problem: an unbalanced age distribution in the co-op, having too many kids under eight and not enough parents involved to work with/manage that younger crowd. It can be a real problem when a group gets young-heavy and there is a lack of involvement from the parents of the young age group. So it sounds to me like they need help with the younger kids already there, and if someone is going to bring in more younger kids, they need to help. If you are interested, ask if there is a particular class offering they need help with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 There is a co-op near my area that is soliciting for more participants. They listed this requirement: "Parents whose oldest participating child is not yet 8 are required to teach a class. If your oldest participating child is 8 or older, you are not required to teach a class. " I have kids older than eight but they are not interested. I read this as either an attempt to coerce parents into enrolling the older siblings of kids who are interested in a class or more likely as a not-very-subtle attempt to discourage parents whose oldest child is not yet eight (meaning that this is likely their first encounter with a co-op and that the thought of being required to teach a class would therefore be rather intimidating) from attempting to participate in this co-op. Clearly if it is their co-op they can require whatever they like, but the only rationales they have offered for this requirement is "We don't want a co-op where parents drop their kids at the door and leave" and that age eight is the 'preferred' age. They do offer classes for three and four year olds, presumably the younger siblings of the 'preferred' age kids. I am getting a bad vibe here. We will not be participating in this group now or in the future. What do you think? I think the rationale they gave may well be the crux of the matter. They don't want to be used as a drop off care center for younger children (who are less able to control themselves). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 We won't be participating even though my kids are well above the age. It creates a barrier for families in which the oldest homeschooled kid is not yet eight, quite deliberately considering that younger kids are welcomed if they have an older sibling involved in a different class and then the moms of THOSE under-eight kids don't have to help, supervise, or do anything. Even remain onsite. I think it would be more clear to ask moms to stay onsite if they were concerned about drop-offs and to give moms the option to help out or assist with the existing under-eight classes if they were worried about too many kids/too few adults issues. I think they just don't want families involved until they have been homeschooling for several years and this is an attempt to 'screen' for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I read it as a response to a problem: an unbalanced age distribution in the co-op, having too many kids under eight and not enough parents involved to work with/manage that younger crowd. It can be a real problem when a group gets young-heavy and there is a lack of involvement from the parents of the young age group. So it sounds to me like they need help with the younger kids already there, and if someone is going to bring in more younger kids, they need to help. If you are interested, ask if there is a particular class offering they need help with. I did, and they don't. They want the parent of the under-eight child (my kids do not fall under this, see my siggy) to submit a proposal for a class and if approved, to teach that class and then the parent's own child can participate in THAT class. And presumably the rest of the class would be the under-eight age sibs of the older co-op kids (whose moms do not have a requirement to have to help or even be onsite). If I did have a kid under eight who wanted to join, that kid could only be in a class I taught which sort of makes the whole co-op idea kind of silly since I would presumably be teaching my own kid all the time anyway. This idea would have me teaching my own along with the kids of moms who had no requirement to help or be available or even be in the building. Unless I could convince one of my own older kids to sign up for something, which would then of course mean I was free to drop off and run. Makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 That is too bad for families like your granddaughter. I have one more thought. Would they let her come in as part of your if you offer a suggestion for teaching a class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Two thoughts....1) There is a history of something there.... and if there is a history, there is drama, and if there is drama.... there will be more drama. 2) I would think that having parents with children older than 8 as teachers would be a good thing because they *might* be more experienced? Why would you want to encourage it the other way around? I think steering clear is a decision you won't regret, LOL. RIght. This doesn't make ANY sense. You want the more experienced parents who (you hope) might be more experienced teachers doing the teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm thinking maybe I should look into starting a new co-op, one that is more welcoming and more clear on policies. Am I nuts? We don't even have a homeschool group in my county......so I set up a yahoo group email group thing for homeschoolers in my county today. I put the word out on my facebook, but no joiners yet. I'm thinking posters at the library. Any advice before I go too far down this path? I really want to be able to encourage new homeschool families and families thinking about homeschooling. I want to be welcoming even to people who are not homeschooling but are interested in learning about what it is all about. thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I've seen this kind of requirement listed for a few different groups here in PA. I think it has something to do with 8 being the magic age for reporting. It's pretty frustrating for those of us starting out with young children, because in some groups we just flat-out are not welcome until our children are 8. I really don't think it's limited to parents supervising children in coop classes, because I've seen email groups that specifically say they prefer members with at least one child over the age of 8. I get that some people only keep their kids home for kindergarten, and it's tough to commit a lot of time and energy for someone who will just leave next year. It also keeps those of us who plan to do this for the long run from finding others in the same boat. I think your plan to spread the word and provide a place for people to communicate sounds wonderful for your community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm thinking maybe I should look into starting a new co-op, one that is more welcoming and more clear on policies. Am I nuts? We don't even have a homeschool group in my county......so I set up a yahoo group email group thing for homeschoolers in my county today. I put the word out on my facebook, but no joiners yet. I'm thinking posters at the library. Any advice before I go too far down this path? I really want to be able to encourage new homeschool families and families thinking about homeschooling. I want to be welcoming even to people who are not homeschooling but are interested in learning about what it is all about. thoughts? I think that support groups and coops of all kinds are great. The more the merrier, because it's impossible for one to be all things to all people. I think the key to starting or leading a group is to be clear in your own head what you want it to be, and then communicate those goals to potential other members. Then anyone can join or not with a clear understanding of what is on offer. It causes lots of conflict when Family A wants lots of high level academics, Family B wants social outlets, Family C wants remediation of problem areas and Family D wants time for Mom to drop the kids and get errands done. None of these goals are bad goals. But they might not coexist peacefully together. I try not to assume negative motive for a group just because their goals aren't what I would want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I did, and they don't. They want the parent of the under-eight child (my kids do not fall under this, see my siggy) to submit a proposal for a class and if approved, to teach that class and then the parent's own child can participate in THAT class. And presumably the rest of the class would be the under-eight age sibs of the older co-op kids (whose moms do not have a requirement to have to help or even be onsite). If I did have a kid under eight who wanted to join, that kid could only be in a class I taught which sort of makes the whole co-op idea kind of silly since I would presumably be teaching my own kid all the time anyway. This idea would have me teaching my own along with the kids of moms who had no requirement to help or be available or even be in the building. Unless I could convince one of my own older kids to sign up for something, which would then of course mean I was free to drop off and run. Makes no sense. Then yes, that sounds like they are trying to discourage anyone from joining who does not have older children who will be participating. Pretty stinky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Well, I did it. I started a local inclusive support group as a prelude to maybe doing a co-op or whatever down the road as there is interest. I have a whopping three members so far counting me. I made a group on Yahoo groups and I am working to get the word out. I guess I just feel that families with kids under eight are just as worthwhile as families with kids over eight. We are even specifically welcoming cyber schoolers and afterschoolers, unheard of in this area. Interestingly, quite a few folks have also chimed in to say that they felt quite unwelcome from this group and have chosen to not participate once their kids reached the 'preferred' age, so I guess in the long term this policy is going to have an impact on the number of families willing to get involved with this group. Thank you, everyone, for the perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 That sounds more like a clique than a co-op. I suspect that the organizing families are interested in creating a peer group and support network for themselves, by recruiting other families who are at their own stage of life, with similarly aged kids. I bet this co-op disbands when the organizing families graduate their kids. They don't seem at all interested in creating an ongoing, self-perpetuating institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Being the director of a co-op, this is how I see it: Often the parents who only have young children feel too inexperienced or tired to also teach a class or even volunteer for one of the bigger jobs.. They want to join the co-op but not teach. Yet, the younger children require a higher teacher to student ratio. Also, if your co-op is heavy on the 5 and under it can feel like a lot of resources are going to managing the younger set instead of providing classes for the older set. If this is not offset by a willingness to serve in a big way by the mothers it can lead to resentment. If the mother is willing to teach an older kid class, though, then she is an asset to the co-op. We don't have this rule, but we have been slowly raising our "oldest child" age from experience. We really wanted to serve the younger families but started burning out rapidly. We wanted to provide enrichment for our kids but our preschool/ infant/toddler group was bigger than the 6 and up group. And many of those mothers weren't willing to teach( we had a number of families of 1, 3, 5 yo). Maybe when the children of the board are older we can relax again. I hope this gives some perspective, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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