Argument with ex-h

[renmew]

If you are willing to read this, thank you. I need to know if I am being unreasonable here. I will try to make it as brief as possible.

 

Dh and I have been separated for about 20 months. He has mental issues and drug abuse that I just couldn't handle anymore. I have not filed for divorce yet, basically giving him time to get it together. He is making the smallest of steps, but at least in the right direction.

 

My best friend has helped us several times, financially, and I have finally been able to repay her most of it. Her husband happens to be my ex from high school. We dated for 3 1/2 years and were not intimate. I see him occasionally when hanging out with my friend, but as he works a lot, it is rare to see or speak with him. Over the last 7 years our families have done a few joint activities, but they were not dh's favorite, as he is very anti-social as it is.

 

Dh just told me tonight that if we were ever to get back together, I would have to break off all contact with bf's dh. As in the the kids and I are hanging out and he comes home from work, so we would have to leave immediately.

 

I think that is unreasonable. We dated in high school, which was almost 20 years ago. I rarely even see this guy, but dh claims having to see him or knowing I was over there put great stress on him and helped tear our marriage apart.

 

Are these issues his to work through, or am I clueless and should actually follow those rules? My best friend is truly wonderful and I love their kids second only to my own.

 

Advice:bigear:

[misidawnrn]

Add jealousy to his issues. I would say he is being unreasonable. 20 years is a long time. It was then, in the past. He needs to leave it there.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that you're having the wrong conversation.

The conversation to have is about whether he would has stopped his drug use, and whether he is in regular treatment for his mental issues and whether he is in a recovery group and actively working it. Everything else is just a tangent. Don't get distracted by this.

[Sasharowan]

I would say that he is being unreasonable from what you have posted, but we both have friends from both genders and don't have a problem with it. Basically, you will need to make a decision if restrictions like this are ones you can live with or not. Dunno if this is any help.

[renmew]

I think that you're having the wrong conversation.

The conversation to have is about whether he would has stopped his drug use, and whether he is in regular treatment for his mental issues and whether he is in a recovery group and actively working it. Everything else is just a tangent. Don't get distracted by this.

 

Yes, of course, that is true. This issue is assuming in 2+ years he has worked through those much more important deal breakers. I am not sitting around waiting for him to recover or not. The kids and I are in a new place and doing our best to thrive.

[joannqn]

He's being unreasonable. Don't get distracted from the bigger issues.

 

 

To put it in perspective. When DH and I met, he was uncomfortable that I was still friends with an ex-boyfriend whom I lived with for three years and was intimate with. The ex is now a family friend. DH has no issues with this whatsoever.

[renmew]

Add jealousy to his issues. I would say he is being unreasonable. 20 years is a long time. It was then, in the past. He needs to leave it there.

 

You nailed it, he's got a looooong list of issues.

[ktgrok]

I think it is reasonable not to want you ALONE with this man. But unreasonable to expect you never to be around him, even when his won wife is there. And I say that as the most jealous red head you will ever meet. It is my worst character flaw. And I STILL think he is being unreasonable.

[Carol in Cal.]

Yes, of course, that is true. This issue is assuming in 2+ years he has worked through those much more important deal breakers. I am not sitting around waiting for him to recover or not. The kids and I are in a new place and doing our best to thrive.

 

My point is that this is a distraction that you should not be misled by.

[renmew]

He's being unreasonable. Don't get distracted from the bigger issues.

 

 

To put it in perspective. When DH and I met, he was uncomfortable that I was still friends with an ex-boyfriend whom I lived with for three years and was intimate with. The ex is now a family friend. DH has no issues with this whatsoever.

 

Thank you for this example. Wen I was talking to him I just couldn't understand why I wasn't getting it. The problem is his, not mine.

 

Thank you, everyone.

[renmew]

I think it is reasonable not to want you ALONE with this man. But unreasonable to expect you never to be around him, even when his won wife is there. And I say that as the most jealous red head you will ever meet. It is my worst character flaw. And I STILL think he is being unreasonable.

 

:iagree:

[renmew]

My point is that this is a distraction that you should not be misled by.

 

Oh, that is a good point I was missing. He was always trying to turn things around to make it my fault.

[Catwoman]

I apologize if I sound harsh, but you have not described a man that I would want to even consider reconciling with. But if you truly love him and want to give him another chance, "the smallest of steps in the right direction" is not nearly enough.

 

Carol in CA made some excellent points, and I hope you will consider what she posted.

 

Frankly, I don't even know you, but I already believe that you deserve far better than the man you have described, unless as time passes he is able to make long term, consistent, and positive life changes. (And in my book, long term is years, not weeks or months, particularly when drugs and mental health issues are involved.)

[Jay3fer]

I agree with pp's - I think the jealousy may be a smokescreen, diverting attention onto you from his own HUGE problems.

His issues are central and non-negotiable. Assuming he can get past that, get into treatment, make it through those 2 years clean, sober and medicated for his mental-health issues, he will presumably be a nicer, more stable person, and you can then have a reasonable conversation. Don't even talk about it until then - don't even mention the friend or husband, because you know it will bait him.

I recommend you NOT have the "if we were to get back together" conversation at all. It's been almost 2 years, the ball's in his court. He knows what he needs to do.

 

(eta - oh... especially don't have it at holiday times when you are feeling alone - surround yourselves with loving family and friends and let his calls go to voicemail until the next business day!)

 

Sorry you're going through this! :-(((

[swellmomma]

He is being unreasonable. It sounds like he is deflecting the blame for the failure of the marriage rather than acknowledging his fault in it which leads me to believe he is not in treatment for his issues etc.

 

Ex-h's are idiots imo. I thought things were going better with mine until this week. Then we had a blow out while the kids were with him, because he was ticked they were phoning me daily to share their day with me. They had never stayed over night with him before. The first day they were on the phone with me more often than they weren't. By the last day they phoned me when they woke up to lay out their plans for the day and again at bedtime to recap. Apparently this constituted me going through them and making them play favorites, and I should have told them they could not phone me when they were there. I told me where he could shove that opinion and how hard to shove it there. He was absent from their lives for 10 years and he expects after a dozen daytime visits that they are going to cut contact with me just because I finally allowed a trial of overnights. Seriously the man needs to give his head a shake. THere was more that he flipped on me for that were made up garbage, and I reminded him of his place then too. Of course this was minutes before he was to bring the kids back to me that this all happened, so the first words out of oldest's mouth after his dad left was "why was dad screaming at you?" They heard everything on that side, including threats of lawyers, CPS and calling me a b*tch. Way to go dad. Not impressed with idiot ex's right now. I thought after 10 years he matured enough to put the kids first but nope it's all about him.

 

Sorry didn't mean to hijack, just fed up with morons right now. Ex's suck. And take it from me, it doesn't matter if 20 months have passed or 10 years they never change. If they were that selfish to start with that their actions led to the failure of the marriage they stay that selfish regardless of how much time has passed.

[renmew]

I apologize if I sound harsh, but you have not described a man that I would want to even consider reconciling with. But if you truly love him and want to give him another chance, "the smallest of steps in the right direction" is not nearly enough.

 

Carol in CA made some excellent points, and I hope you will consider what she posted.

 

Frankly, I don't even know you, but I already believe that you deserve far better than the man you have described, unless as time passes he is able to make long term, consistent, and positive life changes. (And in my book, long term is years, not weeks or months, particularly when drugs and mental health issues are involved.)

 

What you said wasn't harsh, it was common sense. If it weren't for my kids I would never think twice about being with him. I always wanted my kids to have both parents, as neither of us had, and he does love them. They all have a great relationship with him.

 

It is definitely a long term thing. I have told him it will take two or more years at the least of him living a responsible and controlled life.

 

Thank you.

[PentecostalMom]

He's being unreasonable. Don't get distracted from the bigger issues.

 

:iagree:

[renmew]

He is being unreasonable. It sounds like he is deflecting the blame for the failure of the marriage rather than acknowledging his fault in it which leads me to believe he is not in treatment for his issues etc.

 

Ex-h's are idiots imo. I thought things were going better with mine until this week. Then we had a blow out while the kids were with him, because he was ticked they were phoning me daily to share their day with me. They had never stayed over night with him before. The first day they were on the phone with me more often than they weren't. By the last day they phoned me when they woke up to lay out their plans for the day and again at bedtime to recap. Apparently this constituted me going through them and making them play favorites, and I should have told them they could not phone me when they were there. I told me where he could shove that opinion and how hard to shove it there. He was absent from their lives for 10 years and he expects after a dozen daytime visits that they are going to cut contact with me just because I finally allowed a trial of overnights. Seriously the man needs to give his head a shake. THere was more that he flipped on me for that were made up garbage, and I reminded him of his place then too. Of course this was minutes before he was to bring the kids back to me that this all happened, so the first words out of oldest's mouth after his dad left was "why was dad screaming at you?" They heard everything on that side, including threats of lawyers, CPS and calling me a b*tch. Way to go dad. Not impressed with idiot ex's right now. I thought after 10 years he matured enough to put the kids first but nope it's all about him.

 

Sorry didn't mean to hijack, just fed up with morons right now. Ex's suck. And take it from me, it doesn't matter if 20 months have passed or 10 years they never change. If they were that selfish to start with that their actions led to the failure of the marriage they stay that selfish regardless of how much time has passed.

 

I am so sorry your ex did that to you and the kids. What is it with these guys? Mine was out of work for over a year (his own problem, jobs were available). I was working and paying for daycare, because he couldn't watch the little ones. You know, work might suddenly appear at any moment, so the kids had to be in care. Mind you, I am a Catholic school reacher, so the money wasn't exactly flowing. The drugs got so bad, he had sold a ton of tools to buy the drugs, then he starts stealing money from me. Anyways, after losing gas and power, I left when the water was about to go.

 

I was there much too long.

[renmew]

I agree with pp's - I think the jealousy may be a smokescreen, diverting attention onto you from his own HUGE problems.

His issues are central and non-negotiable. Assuming he can get past that, get into treatment, make it through those 2 years clean, sober and medicated for his mental-health issues, he will presumably be a nicer, more stable person, and you can then have a reasonable conversation. Don't even talk about it until then - don't even mention the friend or husband, because you know it will bait him.

I recommend you NOT have the "if we were to get back together" conversation at all. It's been almost 2 years, the ball's in his court. He knows what he needs to do.

 

 

Very good points- thank you.

[BearWallowSchool]

I think it is reasonable not to want you ALONE with this man. But unreasonable to expect you never to be around him, even when his won wife is there. And I say that as the most jealous red head you will ever meet. It is my worst character flaw. And I STILL think he is being unreasonable.

 

:iagree:My thoughts exactly, only I'm a brunette! :lol:

[Julie in CA]

If my dh were doing his part, working through his part of the problem, you betcha I'd agree not to see another man that made him feel insecure. There are enough real struggles, and if you're saying that seeing the other guy isn't a big deal to you, then it should be easy enough to agree not to be in the position of visiting with him at your friend's house. It's a small price to pay, imo.

[kalanamak]

 

Dh just told me tonight that if we were ever to get back together, I would have to break off all contact with bf's dh. As in the the kids and I are hanging out and he comes home from work, so we would have to leave immediately.

 

I would reply that the "if we were ever to get back together" is the big point here, and he should focus on HUGE issues on his side of the tennis net, not the SMALL issues on your side.

 

Stay in the drivers seat with him. Users often think their addictions are more important than anyone else's problems. If thinks his sobriety is threatened by 1) jealousy or 2) you having a say in how you run your life, I say he is still very shaky in his sobriety.

 

He has gotten that far, right? If not he has no business casting his net out of the fishing boat, yet.

 

(I am very thankful I have only had one jealous type in my life, long, long ago. I cannot stand it. It is an INsult to me and him. And in your situation he may not be jealous you'll hop in the sack with this man, but that this man has been a BETTER man to you than he has.)

[SunD]

Well, let's say you go along with it and say "Okay, yes, I promise that if we get back together I will not see John anymore, ever. I will tell Jane that we can't see him and work around that in order to have the kids' playdates and such."

 

Because if I was married to a great provider with no issues, no drug problem, loving and caring all the time, working hard for me and our children, not controlling otherwise, and we were madly in love ... yeah, I'd probably grant him that one request. So when that happens, I wouldn't have a problem with avoiding John. WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

 

And then drop it. He knows what he has to do to make that happen, and the conversation is over, he can't keep bringing it up to deflect the fault onto you. The past is behind you. He's supposed to be working toward the future. That is where this issue can be discussed again, but ONLY going forward, because if you're forgiving and offering second chances, he needs to forgive as well (whether the "threat" was real or imagined).

[Impish]

I think that you're having the wrong conversation.

The conversation to have is about whether he would has stopped his drug use, and whether he is in regular treatment for his mental issues and whether he is in a recovery group and actively working it. Everything else is just a tangent. Don't get distracted by this.

:iagree:

I apologize if I sound harsh, but you have not described a man that I would want to even consider reconciling with. But if you truly love him and want to give him another chance, "the smallest of steps in the right direction" is not nearly enough.

 

Carol in CA made some excellent points, and I hope you will consider what she posted.

 

Frankly, I don't even know you, but I already believe that you deserve far better than the man you have described, unless as time passes he is able to make long term, consistent, and positive life changes. (And in my book, long term is years, not weeks or months, particularly when drugs and mental health issues are involved.)

:iagree:

If my dh were doing his part, working through his part of the problem, you betcha I'd agree not to see another man that made him feel insecure. There are enough real struggles, and if you're saying that seeing the other guy isn't a big deal to you, then it should be easy enough to agree not to be in the position of visiting with him at your friend's house. It's a small price to pay, imo.

Problem I have w/it is that I see it being a transference issue. Rather than focusing on what HE needs to do, he's focusing on how to blame her.

 

It wouldn't matter if she rarely ever left the house, and hid under a tarp when she did. If he's looking for something to make her responsible for his issues, he'll come up w/something.

 

The fact that these families have done things together over the years, that it isn't a new development, tells me he's looking for excuses, and a way to make her responsible for his errors.

 

Reality of it is, nobody can *make* someone feel secure. It has to come from within. If someone has issues w/insecurity, it doesn't matter what lengths their partner goes to, they'll always be having issues w/it.

 

I'm one of the ppl that openly admits to not having friends of the opposite sex, and being uncomfortable w/the idea of my dh doing so.

 

There is a big diff, imo, when it's a family friend, vs just a friend of the spouse though.

[Harriet Vane]

I think that you're having the wrong conversation.

The conversation to have is about whether he would has stopped his drug use, and whether he is in regular treatment for his mental issues and whether he is in a recovery group and actively working it. Everything else is just a tangent. Don't get distracted by this.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Scuff]

I think it's a bit premature to worry about this. If I were you and if, in a few years, he was free from drugs and healthy and we were going to be getting back together, I would concede this one point. It is unreasonable, but it'S not a hill I would die on if it meant that much to him. But who knows what will happen? He maynot care once he works through some of his issues anyway.

[renmew]

Thank you, ladies. We had a long phone conversation last night. He knows what he needs to do, and I said that at a certain point in the future, when he has been clean and responsible and we are ready then to begin counseling for bringing the family back together... then we would discuss this issue, which is apparantly a big deal or him, and I would be willing to heavily compromise. I also told him we wouldn't be discussing it again until that time.

 

Again, thank you. It was great being able to talk this over with other women. For obvious reasons, I couldn't talk about this with my best friend.

 

Happy New Year!

[SailorMom]

:iagree:

 

:iagree:

 

Problem I have w/it is that I see it being a transference issue. Rather than focusing on what HE needs to do, he's focusing on how to blame her.

 

It wouldn't matter if she rarely ever left the house, and hid under a tarp when she did. If he's looking for something to make her responsible for his issues, he'll come up w/something.

 

The fact that these families have done things together over the years, that it isn't a new development, tells me he's looking for excuses, and a way to make her responsible for his errors.

 

Reality of it is, nobody can *make* someone feel secure. It has to come from within. If someone has issues w/insecurity, it doesn't matter what lengths their partner goes to, they'll always be having issues w/it..[/b]

 

:iagree:

[SailorMom]

Thank you, ladies. We had a long phone conversation last night. He knows what he needs to do, and I said that at a certain point in the future, when he has been clean and responsible and we are ready then to begin counseling for bringing the family back together... then we would discuss this issue, which is apparantly a big deal or him, and I would be willing to heavily compromise. I also told him we wouldn't be discussing it again until that time.

 

Again, thank you. It was great being able to talk this over with other women. For obvious reasons, I couldn't talk about this with my best friend.

 

Happy New Year!

 

Great response to him - sounds like you handled it wonderfully to me :)

:grouphug:

[jhschool]

Disclaimer: of course I don't know everything but...

 

Be VERY careful!!!

A controlling husband who tells you who you can be around

or not be around is a very dangerous creature! I had a friend

and am related to people with husbands like that. My friend had

to divorce him and leave the state because he was so controlling.

 

Also, if your husband blames your occasionally coming into

contact with your best friend's husband as one of the things

that "tore your marriage apart" that is unreasonable and shows

denial. You were

not unfaithful, so there is no reason to blame that for the harm to

the marriage. I would say the drug issues are a much bigger deal.

 

Abuse begins with control. If you are not hanging out ALONE with

your friend's husband, if you are not going out on dates with this

person, then someone trying to control WHO YOU SEE

is a very dangerous thing that you need

to stay away from. If you allow it, it will get worse.

[Hen]

I think your response was really good, the part about not discussing it again till the future when you are in counseling was really smart.

 

I also think this is about transferring the wrongs onto you. He is not better, and yes, this is controlling.

 

My dh and I don't believe it is healthy to be good friends with the opposite sex- because we are married. We are very careful about not being in compromising situations, but this does not translate into not being able to be in the presence or the same building as the opposite sex. In real life it means if I am suddenly left alone with a man, I politely have a reason to leave. If we are having holiday guests at the house and dh comes home and realizes only a female guest is home, he leaves and does errands or something until someone else gets home. This is being thoughtful of each other, but what your ex is asking for is extreme, in my opinion.

[Denisemomof4]

I am so sorry your ex did that to you and the kids. What is it with these guys? Mine was out of work for over a year (his own problem, jobs were available). I was working and paying for daycare, because he couldn't watch the little ones. You know, work might suddenly appear at any moment, so the kids had to be in care. Mind you, I am a Catholic school reacher, so the money wasn't exactly flowing. The drugs got so bad, he had sold a ton of tools to buy the drugs, then he starts stealing money from me. Anyways, after losing gas and power, I left when the water was about to go.

 

I was there much too long.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the pps to this point, because I think I would make changes if dh felt threatened. But the more you say about your dh, the more I think your KIDS will be better off not living with him.

 

 

It's been 20 months. If he really wanted you and the kids, and if he put your best interest ahead of his own, do you think he's made enough progress?

 

I do agree with the pps that this is not THE issue and is only a distraction. I wouldn't entertain him with further discussion about it.

 

Your dh needs to put on his big boy pants and truly behave like an honorable man. You and your kids deserve nothing less.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Edited January 1, 2012 by Denisemomof4