Danestress Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Why would someone remove embers that were burning from a log? Just curious. They report said that the fire may have started because the gentleman removed ashes and disposed of them outside, and that the wind might have whipped up still smoldering embers. Why wouldn't embers just be left in the fire place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't know anything about that specific fire, but something similar almost happened to my dad. Once in a while, the hearth has to be emptied from all the ashes. Embers sometimes hide in there, especially if you do fires on an almost daily basis. My dad put the ashes in a paper bag, and put it outside. Of course, the paper bag ended up catching fire, but it had been put inside a heavy plastic container. The fire didn't spread, but the smoke and smell sure did. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I was wondering if they had been burning a lot of wood and the fireplace got too full so he just did a quick scoop and dump? What strikes me as so tragic about stuff like this is that there are times when I really want a fire (our camping fires, etc.) and I can't get them started because of damp wood, wind, whatever. But then this kind of thing happens and poof! Devastation. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) We heat with wood, not with a fireplace; with a woodstove. Under the woodstove is a door that has a pan in it, where the ashes fall. Included in those ashes are small embers/coals that fall through the grates. I don't know the specific case you're mentioning but if it's a fireplace, they probably scooped up the ashes from under the andirons (where the wood rests to burn) and got coals along with them. Anyone who uses a fireplace/woodstove should know that those ashes go to a dedicated metal pail with a lid on a fireproof surface, for at least a couple of days, because yes, they will start a fire. It looks like just another case of people thinking they know what they're doing but not looking into the safety basics... Edited December 28, 2011 by bbkaren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'm finding it difficult to understand putting embers into a bag. :001_huh: Then leaving the bag in the house. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 A lot of times they don't glow because they're covered in a coating of ashes. I can see where they'd not be seen as glowing, but honestly, common sense!!! Frankly, the bag had to be hot to handle too. Sad, it's just a perfect storm of dumb decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 He may have just thought they were ash, no longer burning. If he was inexperienced with fireplaces (maybe it was a special "christmas eve fire" in the fireplace that they don't typically use) he may not have realized that ash can still ignite even if not glowing. Also they were disposed of inside, in a mudroom. I remember mixing our ashes with snow in a metal bucket outside, when i was a kid. We never just dumped them in the trash. No smoke detectors from what I have read. They would have saved the family-- the fire took at least an hour to spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennsmile Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 We too use a wood stove and have a metal pail for ashes though ours doesn't have lid we keep it in the house for a few days before dumping and we have concrete floors. I am having a hard time with a bag for embers/ashes. Plastic would melt. Paper would burn. It is very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 We leave our embers and ash for DAYS to cool before scooping and disposing. Of course, we don't depend on our fireplace our main source of heat, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Because of this story, we checked all of our smoke detectors. We discovered that two of them were not working whatsoever! They both had batteries and they never beeped to alert us that the batteries were going out. I wonder how long they have been nonfunctional? I was very upset, but thankful at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 What strikes me as so tragic about stuff like this is that there are times when I really want a fire (our camping fires, etc.) and I can't get them started because of damp wood, wind, whatever. But then this kind of thing happens and poof! Devastation. :( I guess what I didn't understand was the concept of burning a fire and then going in that same night to get rid of the ashes. I wouldn't do that until the morning. But I think it's true that this is partly about people burning fires regularly so needing to clean out the debris sooner. We just burn them for ambience here. I can clean out ashes very seldom. But I guess maybe he wanted to get it all cleaned up so that they could have a nice fire Christmas morning? So incredibly sad. I just can't even imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I don't know if it was the situation here, but sometimes if the fire's been burning a while and the ashes pile up, they can pack up around the fire and it can't breathe and burn nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Usually it takes sometime to determine the cause of a fire. Is this the official report or guesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Why would someone remove embers that were burning from a log? Just curious. They report said that the fire may have started because the gentleman removed ashes and disposed of them outside, and that the wind might have whipped up still smoldering embers. Why wouldn't embers just be left in the fire place? was it stated that the ashes were put outside and the wind blew them? If they were outside, why did the inside of the home go up so quickly? I had read in initial reports, or heard on the news, that the embers were put in a bag which was then placed into the mudroom. :confused: Who puts embers in a bag? Who takes embers out of a fireplace and puts them in another room in the house? I don't know. I hope there was no foul play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Anyone who uses a fireplace/woodstove should know that those ashes go to a dedicated metal pail with a lid on a fireproof surface, for at least a couple of days, because yes, they will start a fire. It looks like just another case of people thinking they know what they're doing but not looking into the safety basics... We don't clear out ash until the following morning (it's safe in the wood stove overnight, as nothing can spit out into the room). Then it's put into a lidded metal can on the hearth until someone takes it out to the compost heap. Someone with an open fire place might be afraid of hot embers reigniting in the hearth overnight. Of course they needed to be put somewhere safe. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Jo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 You have to clean out the fire place, you can't just leave the ash there to pile up. It will blow out of the wood stove when you put wood in, even spill over the edge. And if you are heating with wood, at some point you are going to take out hot embers, or else you can let the fire die all the way down (cold), then re-kindle it (with time, DRY kindling, paper or something easy to light, etc.). Some types of wood produce a LOT of ash. That is scary how a hot coal blew back into their house and lit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 We don't clear out ash until the following morning (it's safe in the wood stove overnight, as nothing can spit out into the room)... If we just used it periodically we'd do the same but we heat with wood and it's a huge pain to re-start so clearing out the ash is an ongoing process. For us, the ash goes outside on the cement porch in a covered metal trash can. Once a week or so it gets dumped out in the chicken pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) People in the thread about the poor little girl who was murdered in Indiana are ripping the mother apart for putting her kids in danger. Why does this mom get a pass for being with a man who would do something so dangerous as to put hot ashes in a bag? ETA: I want to be clear -- I am not thinking this/blaming her. Edited December 29, 2011 by unsinkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The hot ashes in a bag thing is ignorance. Her responsibility lay with the smoke detectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Why does this mom get a pass for being with a man who would do something so dangerous as to put hot ashes in a bag? Because it's not always hot. I know that when my dad did that mistake, he had at least 50 years of experience running a fireplace on a regular basis. The ashes he threw out were days old. Not one day old, many days old. Close to a week old. Still, one little ember was still hot, unseen, lurking in the ashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Because it's not always hot. I know that when my dad did that mistake, he had at least 50 years of experience running a fireplace on a regular basis. The ashes he threw out were days old. Not one day old, many days old. Close to a week old. Still, one little ember was still hot, unseen, lurking in the ashes. So putting ashes in a bag, in your opinion, is not dangerous. Because your dad did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 omg you people can fight over anything. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 omg you people can fight over anything. :001_huh: This is EXACTLY what I've been thinking...:001_huh: It hasn't exactly been enjoyable here on the forum the past few weeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 It's like you are saying, "I am not blaming her, but why aren't all of you blaming her since she obviously is negligent." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 It's like you are saying, "I am not blaming her, but why aren't all of you blaming her since she obviously is negligent." It's open season on the mom from Indiana...why does this mom not get the same scrutiny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 so I guess I am not following that - just laughing about the "I would never suggest that this mother is negligent, even though she clearly is, and I think you should all be saying so" comment. Or maybe I misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 so I guess I am not following that - just laughing about the "I would never suggest that this mother is negligent, even though she clearly is, and I think you should all be saying so" comment. Or maybe I misunderstood. But this isn't what I said. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 omg you people can fight over anything. :001_huh: This is EXACTLY what I've been thinking...:001_huh: It hasn't exactly been enjoyable here on the forum the past few weeks... Does posting comments like these make you feel good? Or superior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think what the mom & boyfriend did in Connecticut is horribly tragic and I wouldn't "judge" them. However, considering the skewering the mom from Indiana is going through in the other thread I am wondering why it is OK to do it to her and not the the CT mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Does posting comments like these make you feel good? Or superior? Correct, yes. Superior, of course not. None of us is SUPERIOR to one another. Or are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 And ftr, I agree with you about the mom in IN. Everyone does the best they can with what they know, and nobody knows what she knew or what her circumstances were. But that's true in so many cases that people judge harshly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Correct, yes. Superior, of course not. None of us is SUPERIOR to one another. Or are we? You are correct about what, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 You are correct about what, exactly? That a lot of people here like to attack others over any little thing. The PP simply said that she can understand why someone would make this mistake, since she recalls her Dad doing the same thing even though he'd been burning for 50 years. You jumped on her for that, and that happens a lot around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 That a lot of people here like to attack others over any little thing. The PP simply said that she can understand why someone would make this mistake, since she recalls her Dad doing the same thing even though he'd been burning for 50 years. You jumped on her for that, and that happens a lot around here. Nope, I quoted her and asked for clarification. I want to understand what she means. I am not sure why that is considered a fight, an attack or jumping on her. Those are YOUR words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So putting ashes in a bag, in your opinion, is not dangerous. Because your dad did it. I never said it wasn't dangerous. Only that it's a valid mistake. If you knew my dad, you would know the type of man he is, and he's not one to play with fire. Ok, so two people just got killed in a freak car accident locally yesterday. Will I jump on you if I see you drive? Because you did it? Nope. Mistakes happen, and sometimes they're tragic. Most of the time, they're not. The grandfather in the original story (the fire in Indiana) may or may not have been negligent... We have to wait for the investigation before we can say anything. The mom is definitely not to blame, she was probably not even aware of the fireplace being emptied. Sheesh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So putting ashes in a bag, in your opinion, is not dangerous. Because your dad did it. No hostility there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I never said it wasn't dangerous. Only that it's a valid mistake. If you knew my dad, you would know the type of man he is, and he's not one to play with fire. Ok, so two people just got killed in a freak car accident locally yesterday. Will I jump on you if I see you drive? Because you did it? Nope. Mistakes happen, and sometimes they're tragic. Most of the time, they're not. The grandfather in the original story (the fire in Indiana) may or may not have been negligent... We have to wait for the investigation before we can say anything. The mom is definitely not to blame, she was probably not even aware of the fireplace being emptied. Sheesh... Cleo, I apologize for my wording. But I meant no attack. I don't know what else to write because both you and bbkaren think I did something I did not do (in my mind.) I could see if I was a constant belligerent poster who is a thorn in everyone's side or if I was new here and came in with both barrels blazing. But I am not and I didn't. I am truly sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think what the mom & boyfriend did in Connecticut is horribly tragic and I wouldn't "judge" them. However, considering the skewering the mom from Indiana is going through in the other thread I am wondering why it is OK to do it to her and not the the CT mom. Oh, and Cleo, this is what I think about the fire in CT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 US, I'm sorry if you felt singled out...there are some here that jump at the chance to heap (IMO) undue/unkind criticism on a given poster. Then it turns into a pile-on. I've been at the bottom of these on a couple of occasions. It's like a feeding frenzy. I may have lumped you in with that bunch, due to a one-time abrupt choice of words, and I apologize for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 US, I'm sorry if you felt singled out...there are some here that jump at the chance to heap (IMO) undue/unkind criticism on a given poster. Then it turns into a pile-on. I've been at the bottom of these on a couple of occasions. It's like a feeding frenzy. I may have lumped you in with that bunch, due to a one-time abrupt choice of words, and I apologize for that. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Did anyone else read the update to this story? They moved the embers out of concern for Santa!!! :crying: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/christmas-morning-fire-connecticut_n_1182871.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Chp-desktop%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D124694 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Did anyone else read the update to this story? They moved the embers out of concern for Santa!!! :crying: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/christmas-morning-fire-connecticut_n_1182871.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Chp-desktop%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D124694 I truly hope the survivors are able to get counseling that they need. Living with the guilt would be unbearable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Oh Lord, seriously...so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I truly hope the survivors are able to get counseling that they need. Living with the guilt would be unbearable to me. I was wondering, how do you ever get over something like that??? It seems like the man involved was the Mom's boyfriend who must have been nice enough to move the embers. I can just imagine a child asking, "But what about Santa??" How on earth could you possibly move on after this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I was wondering, how do you ever get over something like that??? It seems like the man involved was the Mom's boyfriend who must have been nice enough to move the embers. I can just imagine a child asking, "But what about Santa??" How on earth could you possibly move on after this?? I really don't know. I know my dh would have no desire to live after that, he's stated as much before after reading about such incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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