S/O: Gall bladders, stones, pain, flushing--I need some thoughts

[melissel]

My gall bladder is "impacted with innumerable tiny stones," according to a recent CT scan (done for kidney stone-related issues, not GB issues). My doctor wants me to have it out ASAP, but I don't see why. I'm not in any pain from it, so I'm not especially concerned, but is there some reason (other than to avoid any pain) that she's so eager for me to have it out?

 

I'm also confused about stones. I hear different things about them--you can flush them, you can't flush them, you can pass them, you can't pass them, etc. What exactly is "passing a gall stone"? Passing it to where? Has anyone successfully flushed gall stones? The doc says that when you have stones, that's it--the only solution is to have it out. But I don't know if that's true.

 

If anyone has any insight, I'd love to hear it. It's not something I'm especially worried about right now, but I know--based on the CT scan and family history--that it is likely to become an issue sometime in the future.

 

TIA!

[teachermom2834]

I had my gall bladder out nearly a year ago. It was discovered while trying to figure out what was causing a variety of problems with my stomach. I wasn't convinced I really needed to have it out even though the us showed many stones.

 

I decided to go ahead and have it out because gall bladder surgery that is planned is not a huge deal. I was out and home by 2:00 pm the day of the surgery with just four tiny incisions. An emergency gall bladder removal is a major surgery that can require a week in the hospital.

 

I decided that it was not an "if" but a "when" I was going to run into problems and need to have it out. With 4 kids and a dh that travels frequently (sometimes overseas) I decided I wanted to plan this surgery when I could choose a convenient time and I could choose my own surgeon, etc.

 

It went great and I was so glad I had it done. I felt much better after so it was making me much sicker than I realized. It's also nice to have it taken care of and not have to worry about when I will have the attack.

 

I nearly backed out of the surgery because I am a big baby and I read some posts on here that scared me. Turns out I am really glad I went through with it.

 

I don't know about all the flushing, etc. I thought that gall stones were a problem when they came out of the gall bladder so you wouldn't try to pass them. I could be way off on that.

[Word Nerd]

I read about flushes before I had my gall bladder removed but dismissed the idea. Several articles (ETA:here's one) debunked the claims and said the "gall stones" that are supposedly flushed out are actually the product of saponification.

Edited December 27, 2011 by WordGirl

[Michelle in AL]

I would think that they would be worried about gallstones traveling into the common bile duct, which could then block bile from emptying into your intestine and cause liver/pancreatic issues.

 

Did you have any in your common bile duct? If not, you could get a 2nd opinion.

[Dolphin]

Well, I almost died from a gall stone. It got caught in my pancreas and caused severe pancreatitis. I spent 10 days in the hospital. The first 2 days I was in so much pain that I laid in the bed and cried. You can not eat (or drink) anything even water. I also ended up with fluid around my pancreas.

 

I had to have a pic line on day 4 to feed me intravenously. Finally on day 9 the inflammation went down enough for them to remove my gall bladder. I was lucky and they were able to do keyhole surgery. I was told that they would try for key hole, but they might have to do full stomach surgery.

 

It is a fairly minor surgery if done in a non emergency situation.

 

Also, have you ever passed a stone? I don't tell men this, but it hurt worse than child birth. Not fun.

 

If I were you, I would just get it out. Best of luck

 

Nicole

[Quiver0f10]

When I was going through my GB issues I read that many people have stones and don't realize it. Some doctors will leave it alone unlss you're having attacks. Others will remove it. As far as a flush I don't think they work. My biggest stone was the size of a walnut. I can't imagine trying to flush that! I did have a stone get stuck twice and I wouldn't wish the pain on anyone.

[Quiver0f10]

Well, I almost died from a gall stone. It got caught in my pancreas and caused severe pancreatitis. I spent 10 days in the hospital. The first 2 days I was in so much pain that I laid in the bed and cried. You can not eat (or drink) anything even water. I also ended up with fluid around my pancreas.

 

I had to have a pic line on day 4 to feed me intravenously. Finally on day 9 the inflammation went down enough for them to remove my gall bladder. I was lucky and they were able to do keyhole surgery. I was told that they would try for key hole, but they might have to do full stomach surgery.

 

It is a fairly minor surgery if done in a non emergency situation.

 

Also, have you ever passed a stone? I don't tell men this, but it hurt worse than child birth. Not fun.

 

If I were you, I would just get it out. Best of luck

 

Nicole

 

:iagree:

[fhjmom]

Several years ago, I ended up in the hospital with pancreatitis and only then did they discover I had "sludge" in my gall bladder. (Yes, the doctor called it sludge, LOL!) I had my gall bladder out about 6 weeks later because of the concern of pancreatitis, because it can be life-threatening. In fact a colleague was in the hospital at the exact same time I was with the same thing and he passed away. After that experience, I believe that gall stones/gall bladder stuff is nothing to mess around with.

[melissel]

:svengo: OK, you guys make a very good case. I see why it's better to be proactive about this, and I do believe, given my family history (mom, grandmother, and aunt have had to have theirs removed, and uncle has severe problems with his), that it's a "when" rather than "if" scenario. I didn't realize the consequences of waiting could be so serious.

 

I'm due to visit my doctor in a few weeks, so I'll talk to her more about it then. Thank you all for sharing your experiences!

[gardenmom5]

"stones" are actually crystals. when they try to exit through the bile duct, they are bigger than the bile duct and they get stuck. it can take hours to pass it. hours of pain and vomiting. I was in so much pain, I couldn't talk.

 

I had two labors with nothing but demerol for pain relief. i've had two labors with pitocin. I would take LABOR over passing a gallstone.

Edited December 27, 2011 by gardenmom5

[melissel]

"stones" are actually crystals. when they try to exit through the bile duct, they are bigger than the bile duct and they get stuck. it can take hours to pass it. hours of pain and vomiting. I was in so much pain, I couldn't talk.

 

I had two labors with nothing but demerol for pain relief. i've had two labors with pitocin. I would take LABOR over passing a gallstone.

 

Stop, you're going to make me cry!!! I'm considering myself lucky (so far!) to know about this in advance rather than finding out the hard way. I already lucked out with one not-so-bad kidney stone experience (though the next is looking like it will be far worse :(), so I guess I won't push my luck :001_unsure:

[Jaybee]

I was told that the tiny stones that filled my gallbladder were actually the worst kind, because they could easily slip out and block the bile duct. Then I would have had to have emergency surgery. The (planned!) surgery was not complicated at all. When asked if I had indigestion a lot (before surgery), I said no, because I didn't think I did. After the surgery, I realized that I had apparently just become accustomed to it, and that I felt better after the surgery.

[KidsHappen]

I personally believe that flushes work. My dd had gallstones when she was pregnant, confirmed by U/S. They of course wanted to postpone the surgery until after delivery if at all possible so she tried flushes and managed to pass all of them. She never had to have the surgery.

[LostSurprise]

If one or more of the stones block your lower duct you become jaundiced. When that happens they have to knock you out and stick a thing down all your various tubes and make a small snip to let it/them out.

 

You can ask them to examine the scan and see how likely they are to pass, but if you do make sure you do a follow up. If your gall bladder is overproducing over time, chances are next time won't be so easy.

[Dolphin]

Hey OP, Stop reading now:grouphug: You got your answer, you realize they are serious, you are going to do something about it.

 

So many people have experience with this and are going to share their stories. You don't need to read anymore of them and get yourself upset.

 

Yes, you are looking at surgery, but in a non emergency situation it is minor. Key hole surgery is not hard to recover from. Just do what your doctor tells you to do rest wise, even if you are feeling great. You will get through this fine.:grouphug:

[melissel]

Hey OP, Stop reading now:grouphug: You got your answer, you realize they are serious, you are going to do something about it.

 

So many people have experience with this and are going to share their stories. You don't need to read anymore of them and get yourself upset.

 

Yes, you are looking at surgery, but in a non emergency situation it is minor. Key hole surgery is not hard to recover from. Just do what your doctor tells you to do rest wise, even if you are feeling great. You will get through this fine.:grouphug:

 

I'm sorry, I should have indicated that I was kidding (mostly!) above. Actually, all these scary stories are helping, because clearly I need to be more afraid of the gall stones than I am of the surgery. I'm a terrible procrastinator on medical things (I had the kidney scan 6 months ago :blushing:), so all of your experiences are galvanizing me to actually do something before it becomes an emergent situation.

 

Thank you for worrying about my state of mind :grouphug: Thankfully, my mom had her GB out a few months ago, so I do know it's relatively easy, and I have lots of support here (DH can take days off, my parents are nearby, etc.). Now I just have to make the phone calls!

[melissel]

When asked if I had indigestion a lot (before surgery), I said no, because I didn't think I did.

 

Thank you for saying this. I've been having bad reflux and other digestive issues for a long time now, and I've chalked them to food intolerances (gluten and caffeine, mainly, since they mostly go away when I avoid those things). But wouldn't it be lovely to find that having my GB out could solve all the problems I've been suffering with?! Maybe I'll get lucky and that will resolve them. I'd love to be able to enjoy bread instead of fearing it the way I do now!

[mchel210]

Well...I am a huge chicken and terrified to have the surgery...but after dealing with 3 months of pain and not being able to eat a thing...I gave in and scheduled my gallbladder removal. I had it out 4 days after meeting my surgeon. I didnt have stones but severe inflammation. The day of surgery was actually not as bad as I thought and I was given a sedative to relax prior to the surgery ...It was over before I knew it and the week of pain came and went VERY fast!!

 

Needless to say. I feel great now and can eat tons more then before! It is a distant memory (last july) and so thankful to have that behind me! I think the secret for me was to just schedule everything as quickly as possible to get things out of the way before I could change my mind.

 

I also have so much less gas and stomach issues I never realized had been my gallbladder!

[kwickimom]

Can I just say...I WANT my stupid gallbladder out but it cannot be removed until it is under 50% functioning and my last test it was at 70%.

 

I am in constant pain, have horrible reflux, and major stomach issues and I cannot get them to take the darn thing out yet. GRRRRR

 

I'll trade you places. ;)

[VeteranMom]

Well, I almost died from a gall stone. It got caught in my pancreas and caused severe pancreatitis. I spent 10 days in the hospital. The first 2 days I was in so much pain that I laid in the bed and cried. You can not eat (or drink) anything even water. I also ended up with fluid around my pancreas.

 

I had to have a pic line on day 4 to feed me intravenously. Finally on day 9 the inflammation went down enough for them to remove my gall bladder. I was lucky and they were able to do keyhole surgery. I was told that they would try for key hole, but they might have to do full stomach surgery.

 

It is a fairly minor surgery if done in a non emergency situation.

 

Also, have you ever passed a stone? I don't tell men this, but it hurt worse than child birth. Not fun.

 

If I were you, I would just get it out. Best of luck

 

Nicole

:iagree:

A good friend's Mom died due to the complications you describe. She suffered for 5 weeks before an infection finally killed her. It was awful.

I had my GB removed 3 years ago. Afterward, I felt better than I had felt in years. My husband wanted me to do the flushes that the internet touts. I didn't mess with any of it, since I don't believe that those flushes work.

[melissel]

Can I just say...I WANT my stupid gallbladder out but it cannot be removed until it is under 50% functioning and my last test it was at 70%.

 

I am in constant pain, have horrible reflux, and major stomach issues and I cannot get them to take the darn thing out yet. GRRRRR

 

I'll trade you places. ;)

 

You need to find a new doctor!!! I have never heard anyone say anything about functional levels. My own doc wants me to have it ASAP, and all I have is stones on a CT scan--no pain, no outward signs of GB problems at all (at least, that my doc is aware of--I do have digestive issues that may be related, but I never realized that until this thread). Have you gotten 2nd (and 3rd!) opinions on this?

[mommaduck]

I would think that they would be worried about gallstones traveling into the common bile duct, which could then block bile from emptying into your intestine and cause liver/pancreatic issues.

 

Did you have any in your common bile duct? If not, you could get a 2nd opinion.

This is what I was recently told at my GI appt. You could end up with an infection also, amoungst other issues. It could land you in the hospital or kill you, from what I was told.

[Reesegirl]

I had mine out about 3 years ago. For about 5 years or so I had bouts of pain and vomiting that lasted a couple of days, especially brought on by anything with onions or peppers, which I learned to avoid but sometimes consumed without knowing it. I didn't know it was my gal bladder. Over Thanksgiving 3 years ago while sick with my last bout my dd who was a sr. in college nursing student told me that my symptoms sounded like gal baldder problems. My husband insisted on taking me to the emergency that night and I was diagnosed with gal stones and an infection. The following Wednesday I had surgery. The doctor found my gal baldder inflamed, came very close to having to do a full incision but managed to do it laproscopically but I had to stay the night in the hospital. I went home with a drain tube due to the infection, which slowed down my recovery by a week. I am like you, I put off going to the doctor thinking I was allergic to certain foods....glad that I finally got it taked care of.

[mchel210]

You need to find a new doctor!!! I have never heard anyone say anything about functional levels. My own doc wants me to have it ASAP, and all I have is stones on a CT scan--no pain, no outward signs of GB problems at all (at least, that my doc is aware of--I do have digestive issues that may be related, but I never realized that until this thread). Have you gotten 2nd (and 3rd!) opinions on this?

 

I think she may have inflammation and not stones...that is why they checked my functional levels. I didnt have any stones at all....and it was almost impossible to find...but the only test that determined it was a pidida test and my gallbladder was at 16%. I think that is the main reason to do that test...I cant imagine you would need that with stones present.

[5Bmom]

You need to find a new doctor!!! I have never heard anyone say anything about functional levels. My own doc wants me to have it ASAP, and all I have is stones on a CT scan--no pain, no outward signs of GB problems at all (at least, that my doc is aware of--I do have digestive issues that may be related, but I never realized that until this thread). Have you gotten 2nd (and 3rd!) opinions on this?

 

I found this thread on a search because I am having mine out this week. I had a minor pain that lasted 3 minutes 2 days before Christmas, landed in the ER with food poisoing 2 days after Christmas and my bilirubin was slightly elevated. Followed up with my Doctor, had an ultrasound last Wednesday, met the surgeon Friday, and 3 weeks and 1 day after my FIRST symptom I am having it out.

[anabelneri]

Here's a slightly different story than others on the list... I had gallstones a couple years ago after my dd was born, and I had a whole bunch of attacks. I worked with a local doctor who does evidence-based medicine and is open to non-standard treatments to dissolve them; the plan turned out to be successful and I never had the surgery. She prescribed things like bile salts to help dissolve them, and she also helped me look at my life to try and treat not just the physical issue, but to see if there were other issues as well (she's not a therapist, but it was still helpful).

 

One piece of the treatment was enteric coated peppermint oil (available at Whole Foods, etc.). I bought the NOW brand. I can't remember how many I was taking, but I did take them every day, and I remember taking them when I was having an attack. Also, drink apple juice during an attack. I found that the peppermint oil combined with the apple juice made them go away far faster than anything (and NO pain reliever short of vicadin was going to help the pain -- I swear it was worse than giving birth).

 

It's definitely a serious problem. I wouldn't try a flush; it seems like it could be pretty dangerous. But if you can find a doctor who will work with you with non-surgical options, it might be worth trying.

 

Good luck!