Punishment for blatant lying?

[brett_ashley]

There is no real life consequence for choosing to listen to music (or in our house a book) on an iPod at night. This is an arbitrary rule with no real reasoning behind it at a;; and which you choose to enforce with an over reaction and over use of parental power. Its just power tripping meanness.

 

Are you serious? I've stayed up to read until the middle of the night more times than I count and I'm always grouchy and rude to everyone the next morning. There's definitely real-life consequences to staying up to read.

 

I'm so worthless the next day I've implemented a rule for myself: no fiction except on vacation.

Edited December 26, 2011 by brett_ashley

[AimeeM]

You are mischaracterizing that post. He didn't threaten the kid he stated he was so angry he felt like punching the kid.

 

I'm not getting into it in this thread. He said he was going to get mom before he punched the child. That anyone would WANT to punch a child is beyond me. Different post though, and it seems the same is being said for your replies in THIS post *shrug*.

[5kidsforME]

I completely agree with you. Not only did she (#1) lie, (#2) break a known rule of the house but it was (#3) a repeated and deliberate breaking of said rule. It's nobody's business to agree with the rule; your house and your rule. Your daughter not only knew the rule but had intentionally crossed it before. This is more than breaking a rule OR lying. This is a deliberate repeat. She likely has little intentions of following the house rules.

 

*I* think a month of lose of iPod and a lot of conversations on lying and why the house rules are what they are is a good beginning.

 

We have the same rule here. Just to clarify an iPod is a music only device. I think you are saying she had her iPod Touch in her bed? Unrestrained access to Internet and such is a huge No here. Not to mention the playing of available games is not a great way to settle your brain before sleep.

 

I completely agree here. Just my opinion and just saying. :)

 

 

:iagree:

[annandatje]

There is no real life consequence for choosing to listen to music (or in our house a book) on an iPod at night. This is an arbitrary rule with no real reasoning behind it at a;; and which you choose to enforce with an over reaction and over use of parental power. Its just power tripping meanness.

 

:iagree: However, our family's parenting style seems to be more relaxed in general than what the mainstream appears to be for forum members. Thus, what looks harsh to me may be par for course to someone else.

 

Shaky nonparallel analogies are a fact of forum life.

[AimeeM]

You must have a very romantical house of magical children.

 

I understand all too well the desire to be punitive and can assert with some certainty that the one you want to punch most is the one who you should be most careful to never ever hurt (words or spanking) but to characterize unacted upon parental anger as abuse isnt fair or reasonable. In any thread.

 

 

Its probably because my oldest child could provoke a saint to rage that I have come to understand how the sort of authoritarian parenting in THIS thread is so unproductive. God bless my provoking child, who has humbled me and taught me so much.

 

Let the little crap go. Your blood pressure will thank you and so will your children.

 

Romantical children :lol:. Hardly. I've never felt the desire to physically harm them though. Period. I honestly didn't realize that so many people do. My issue obviously; which is why I left that thread :D

I do think it is important to let the small things go with children.

[8circles]

You must have a very romantical house of magical children.

 

Can I steal this? I love the picture this paints.

[Cindy in FL.]

I have to say that your responses are very likely the most rude comments to someone I've ever seen on this board. I've been here for years, so that's impressive. In my opinion, if you didn't have a high post count, your responses would be yet another case of suspected trollish that's so rampant lately.

 

We have another thread going on right now where a Dad got so emotionally involved in an argument with his step-son that he actually said he was going to get the mother or he might punch the son. I don't have any significant problems with his response but her situation got so much support compared to something as simple as the OP here. What's the deal?

 

Her daughter broke a rule. Her daughter lied. Her daughter was knowingly and blatantly repeating a known offense. She was asking thoughts on different punishments, not whether or not your opinion of HER rule in HER house was right. So many of these responses are so judgmental and disrespectful of a situation we aren't even truly a part of. There is likely much more we don't even know. We (you as well) don't know that she's never had a conversation with her daughter as to the "whys" to having the iPod. You don't know the situation and yet you are throwing fast, hard and rude judgments on her.

 

IF indeed her daughter's iPod is actually an iPod Touch, then the device in the room is a completely different story of simply not being able to listen to music. The OP said earlier that her reason for not having the iPod was that she didn't want her up playing games. She said she didn't have any problems with her listening to music and would even help her set up music on her radio/alarm clock, I believe.

 

I don't see anywhere she's been on any power-tripping meanness streak. I do see some of that on this thread though. I've seldom seen a thread that made me more disappointed and sick on this board. I tell everyone who I have the conversation with that the reason I enjoy this board and NO other is the ability to have open, attack-less conversations is most times so easy. There is a good reason I enjoy conversation here and not on Facebook.

 

:iagree:

[Joker]

I grew up in a home where lying was basically considered the worst thing one could do. I became very sneaky. I also remember feeling trapped at times if I wanted to come clean. If I went with impulse once and lied, I was then afraid to backtrack. I never want my dds to feel that kind of trapped.

 

I don't punish for lying. The few times my dds have lied, we've talked and moved on. There are usually always logical consequences. If one of my dds sneaks the iPod to play games at night they will be tired the next day and won't be allowed to sleep in. Since they would be tired, they would need to go to bed earlier the next night. The older my dds get, the more I am going to want them to feel comfortable talking to me. I feel coming down too harshly on something as small as sneaking an iPod at night will hinder that (it did with my parents and myself).

[AimeeM]

Maybe not an issue so much as a blessing.:)

 

 

I dont think its healthy to pretend parents dont get angry at kids. Angry enough to hurt them. Its pretty normal to be frustrated and annoyed and angry and dealing with that sort of anger in a good way requires we can admit that parenting is hard and tedious and occasionally blindingly infuriating.

 

you can be overly punitive and inappropriately give in to anger without even raising a hand to your kids. Id say requiring an essay on christmas bc your kid had her headphones on is pretty inappropriately angry. Its just so grossly out of proportion and smells like too much stress in mom or dad to me.

 

We prefer to be preventative, not punitive :tongue_smilie:

[justamouse]

I have seen over and over, with my own life and eyes, that harsh childhood punishments do not contribute to family closenss. Beatings are not the only things that harm family relationships. THis may not been seen until adulthood. There are many posters on this board who dread being with their families, even on Christmas. Over time, people get beaten down emotionally. You can only take so much shame and your parents' disappointment in you before you simply don't want to deal with any of it, and you don't want your kids around it.

 

Okay, I'm wading in. This a general reply to situation, not a commentary on the OP or her dd.

 

11.5 is a great age to start building trust and cementing the lines of communication. It's also a great age for a child to start having more say in how their possessions are used. Lying is not acceptable, but why did she lie? Why is she not allowed to use an Ipod at bedtime? Is it not her Ipod? Numerous people have replied that music at bedtime helps sleep, not hinder it.

 

So she lied and got in trouble. The punishment may seem harsh to her and a bit over the top. What happens when a real teen issue arises? What has she learned? Again, I am not speaking to the OP's dd in particular, but to the situation. She's learned that I get in trouble when I get caught doing something I shouldn't. Okay, she learns how to lie better. In this situation are her feelings and desires taken into account? Is there two way communication happening? Or is it all disciplinary action? A divide is created between the child and the parents. They can be seen as disciplinarians lording their authority over the child. The child thinks they don't care about her feelings or desires and one line of communication gets cut off. She also learns that she doesn't have full say in her possessions. She may see the no Ipod at bedtime as some random rule that has no logic in her world. She may even start to believe she doesn't get a say in her own actions. She suppresses her desires, she doesn't feel accepted by her parents. I was a 12 year old girl once, teen logic, hormones, and a few rules I didn't understand made the above scenario quite real in my life.

 

I ended up dating guys that had random authoritative rules. I didn't know how to value, articulate, or take action on my own thoughts and desires. I kept waiting for people with more authority to do stuff for me. Get into the wrong relationship and that can spell disaster.

 

I was an adult before I started really being able to communicate with my parents. There are still things I did as a teen that my parents have no clue about. I'm 44. I knew at the time I couldn't be honest with them because they wouldn't accept the choices I made. There were a few times I did stupid things and should have called them to come get me, I couldn't. I didn't fear punishment, I feared them.

 

So again, this is not in particular to the OP, their relationship may be entirely different. But random rules and harsh punishments for non-dangerous activities drove a wedge in my communication with my parents.

 

:iagree:

 

I thank everyone for your responses. I will admit to being very surprised at most of them, but I did ask for them. I will say that I thought DH was going above and beyond what the situation called for when he wanted her to write the report, but the 30 days was mine. He wasn't making her scrub the baseboards with a toothbrush like my parents would have made me and he had printed off the reading for her already.

 

 

 

Is it perhaps hard for you to see what other posters are talking about because you come from a punitive household, yourself?

 

My own experience is like candals, I have one child I was punitive with, and I am forever trying to repair the damage I did in that relationship. In large ways and small ones.

[jenn-]

Maybe not an issue so much as a blessing.:)

 

 

I dont think its healthy to pretend parents dont get angry at kids. Angry enough to hurt them. Its pretty normal to be frustrated and annoyed and angry and dealing with that sort of anger in a good way requires we can admit that parenting is hard and tedious and occasionally blindingly infuriating.

 

you can be overly punitive and inappropriately give in to anger without even raising a hand to your kids. Id say requiring an essay on christmas bc your kid had her headphones on is pretty inappropriately angry. Its just so grossly out of proportion and smells like too much stress in mom or dad to me.

 

If it makes you feel any better, he didn't pull her out of bed then and there last night and make her write the essay. That was completed the day after Christmas which would normally be a school day if we weren't going on vacation. And being the mean, cruel parents we are, we are making them bring their math books on vacation.

[Dustybug]

I'm sorry, but I'm sharing my opinion here, even though it won't be popular.

 

And before anyone decides to throw tomatoes, please realize there are opinions expressed in this thread that I HEARTILY disagree with as well, and I'm not gonna flame anyone.

 

I think the OP and her dh picked a fine punishment. Is it what everyone else here would do? No. Is that ok? Yes.

 

I disagree that it is contributing to family disharmony, or exceptionally over the top, or apt to create emotional distance, or out of line. I flat out disagree.

 

They're not beating her or otherwise physically punishing her, screaming at her, belittling her, or using inappropriate language. Those things would be wrong. But taking her ipd for a month and making her write an essay? Pfft. Not that big of a deal, in my world. She'll live. She'll hopefully learn. An ipod is not a right, it's a priveledge.

 

Maybe they're harsher about it than others would chose to be. Frankly, I don't think they are. But hey, we can agree to disagree.

 

:iagree:

[*********]

I have to say that your responses are very likely the most rude comments to someone I've ever seen on this board. I've been here for years, so that's impressive. In my opinion, if you didn't have a high post count, your responses would be yet another case of suspected trollish that's so rampant lately.

 

We have another thread going on right now where a Dad got so emotionally involved in an argument with his step-son that he actually said he was going to get the mother or he might punch the son. I don't have any significant problems with his response but her situation got so much support compared to something as simple as the OP here. What's the deal?

 

Her daughter broke a rule. Her daughter lied. Her daughter was knowingly and blatantly repeating a known offense. She was asking thoughts on different punishments, not whether or not your opinion of HER rule in HER house was right. So many of these responses are so judgmental and disrespectful of a situation we aren't even truly a part of. There is likely much more we don't even know. We (you as well) don't know that she's never had a conversation with her daughter as to the "whys" to having the iPod. You don't know the situation and yet you are throwing fast, hard and rude judgments on her.

 

IF indeed her daughter's iPod is actually an iPod Touch, then the device in the room is a completely different story of simply not being able to listen to music. The OP said earlier that her reason for not having the iPod was that she didn't want her up playing games. She said she didn't have any problems with her listening to music and would even help her set up music on her radio/alarm clock, I believe.

 

I don't see anywhere she's been on any power-tripping meanness streak. I do see some of that on this thread though. I've seldom seen a thread that made me more disappointed and sick on this board. I tell everyone who I have the conversation with that the reason I enjoy this board and NO other is the ability to have open, attack-less conversations is most times so easy. There is a good reason I enjoy conversation here and not on Facebook.

 

 

What she said.

[UnsinkableKristen]

You make a good point here and I understand what you're saying about the police officer.

 

However, the analogy falls apart because you're not taking the relationship into account. I think that relationship is what the disagreeing posters are (hopefully gently) trying to convey when they say to lighten up and be careful not to overreact.

 

Your dd is also at the age where she is deciding how much to let you in or shut you out. How much to trust and how much to fear. Whether to emulate or silently scorn. Whether your arguments are logical and with her best interests at heart or seemingly arbitrary power trips. She's watching, absorbing, and processing your words and actions and making all kinds of decisions about you and dh.

 

You have a lot of influence in determining the nature of that relationship throughout what could be difficult teen years ahead and beyond. Tread wisely.

 

 

Not the OP, but I REALLY needed to hear this! I've been in a stink all day (just your regular lady-town hormones) and snippy with my DD7. I need to keep this in the forefront of my mind, that she is growing up and that I want to her to feel like she can talk to me during her teen years and then actually listen to what I respond with. Overreacting to little things like I've done all day today isn't going to give me the relationship I want with her.

 

Thank you, Thank you for the reminder.

[coffeefreak]

I thank everyone for your responses. I will admit to being very surprised at most of them, but I did ask for them. I will say that I thought DH was going above and beyond what the situation called for when he wanted her to write the report, but the 30 days was mine. He wasn't making her scrub the baseboards with a toothbrush like my parents would have made me and he had printed off the reading for her already.

 

iPods are not a right even one that is considered hers. If it is under our roof, it falls under our jurisdiction. We can take away or give privileges to anything in the house. They don't have to like it, but it is the way it is until they move out.

 

DD is at the age that she needs to learn about real life consequences about disobeying rules whether she likes them or not. There are many spots on the road that I think should have a much higher speed limit, but that doesn't give me the right to speed in them. If I get caught speeding, lying to a cop would get me in more trouble not just a slap on the wrist. I don't want to think about what would happen if I chose to argue about the stupid speed limit with them at that point instead of acting contrite. Break that rule enough times and the state will take your drivers license away for however long they want. Not to mention your insurance rate will sky rocket if you can still get it at all.

:iagree:

:grouphug:

[parias1126]

I have to say that your responses are very likely the most rude comments to someone I've ever seen on this board. I've been here for years, so that's impressive. In my opinion, if you didn't have a high post count, your responses would be yet another case of suspected trollish that's so rampant lately.

 

We have another thread going on right now where a Dad got so emotionally involved in an argument with his step-son that he actually said he was going to get the mother or he might punch the son. I don't have any significant problems with his response but her situation got so much support compared to something as simple as the OP here. What's the deal?

 

Her daughter broke a rule. Her daughter lied. Her daughter was knowingly and blatantly repeating a known offense. She was asking thoughts on different punishments, not whether or not your opinion of HER rule in HER house was right. So many of these responses are so judgmental and disrespectful of a situation we aren't even truly a part of. There is likely much more we don't even know. We (you as well) don't know that she's never had a conversation with her daughter as to the "whys" to having the iPod. You don't know the situation and yet you are throwing fast, hard and rude judgments on her.

 

IF indeed her daughter's iPod is actually an iPod Touch, then the device in the room is a completely different story of simply not being able to listen to music. The OP said earlier that her reason for not having the iPod was that she didn't want her up playing games. She said she didn't have any problems with her listening to music and would even help her set up music on her radio/alarm clock, I believe.

 

I don't see anywhere she's been on any power-tripping meanness streak. I do see some of that on this thread though. I've seldom seen a thread that made me more disappointed and sick on this board. I tell everyone who I have the conversation with that the reason I enjoy this board and NO other is the ability to have open, attack-less conversations is most times so easy. There is a good reason I enjoy conversation here and not on Facebook.

:iagree:

A RULE..IS A RULE...IS A RULE! :001_smile:

[Guest submarines]

:iagree:

A RULE..IS A RULE...IS A RULE! :001_smile:

 

Rules are meant to be broken. ;)

 

The above is very black and white thinking. Knowing that rules can be firm or flexible, and that there are exceptions, and the relationship comes first is a great skill to develop and requires a great deal of maturity. The sister in a recent thread, who is a mandatory reporter and is putting her status above her relationship with her sister, is a person who sees the world in black and white (in terms of a rule is a rule is a rule), and she isn't the most favorite person here (or with her family), is she?

[coffeefreak]

Rules are meant to be broken. ;)

 

The above is very black and white thinking. Knowing that rules can be firm or flexible, and that there are exceptions, and the relationship comes first is a great skill to develop and requires a great deal of maturity. The sister in a recent thread, who is a mandatory reporter and is putting her status above her relationship with her sister, is a person who sees the world in black and white (in terms of a rule is a rule is a rule), and she isn't the most favorite person here (or with her family), is she?

 

I totally disagree. This reasoning is why we live in a society that refuses to take responsibility for their actions, why so many criminals get off on technicalities, and why honesty is not seen as a virtue anymore. I'm not on this earth to be popular or be friends and protect people that do wrong or hurt others. I'm here to raise my children, serve the Lord, and make a positive difference. That means doing what is right.

 

Frankly, some of the answers disturb me. Lying is a horrible, HORRIBLE sin. When you lie, you are hurting yourself as well as others. When people blow it off and say things like, "Why would you punish her for such a small thing," or, "You caused her to lie," it greatly disturbs me. Did OP's hubby over react? I don't know, because I don't know their daughter. What I do know is a rule is a rule, a lie is a lie, and therefore should be dealt with swiftly and strongly.

 

Think of all the employers, friends and family that have lied to you. Are you close to them? Do you really like to associate or be with them? Are they someone you want to work for, tell secrets to, go to in times of trouble? When one of your girlfriends in High School or college lied to you, weren't you devastated? What about a spouse telling even little white lies? Don't you get angry later when you find out you didn't really look good in that dress?

 

OP, I don't know what the solution is for your daughter, but you were perfectly right to punish her for lying. We've taken away electronics too and never hesitate to do so, a month is not too long. As a matter of fact, we just banned Pizza for a month in this house. Why? Because my girls fight over the leftovers, and they literally got into a knock down drag out fight last week over left over pizza in the fridge. I can't take it anymore so no pizza for a month.:lol: That rocked their world and they were stunned. I think I've gotten my point across and so have you.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I totally disagree. This reasoning is why we live in a society that refuses to take responsibility for their actions, why so many criminals get off on technicalities, and why honesty is not seen as a virtue anymore. I'm not on this earth to be popular or be friends and protect people that do wrong or hurt others. I'm here to raise my children, serve the Lord, and make a positive difference. That means doing what is right.

 

Faulty logic considering those "technicalities" are actually rules.

[parias1126]

Rules are meant to be broken. ;)

 

The above is very black and white thinking. Knowing that rules can be firm or flexible, and that there are exceptions, and the relationship comes first is a great skill to develop and requires a great deal of maturity. The sister in a recent thread, who is a mandatory reporter and is putting her status above her relationship with her sister, is a person who sees the world in black and white (in terms of a rule is a rule is a rule), and she isn't the most favorite person here (or with her family), is she?

 

First off, why are we comparing the 2 threads that have nothing to do with each other?

 

Second, your children are allowed to just continually break the rules you set in your home? Mine aren't. What is that teaching them? It's not right to steal either, but is it okay to break that rule too?

[Guest submarines]

First off, why are we comparing the 2 threads that have nothing to do with each other?

 

Plenty to do with each other. The sister who threatened to report to CAS is a very by the rules person, and puts the rules in front of her relationship with her family.

 

When rules become most important, and are followed blindly (A rule is a rule is a rule) there's a great potential for relationships suffering.

 

Second, your children are allowed to just continually break the rules you set in your home? Mine aren't. What is that teaching them? It's not right to steal either, but is it okay to break that rule too?

 

 

They are not allowed, and they do not break them. But we have very few rules. We have expectations and guidelines. They are followed because they are understood and respected, not because out of fear of punishment.

 

"No stealing" is not a rule per se. Most people don't steal not because it is a rule, but because of their deeper understanding of right and wrong, and their strong moral compass. One can't develop a strong moral compass in an environment of rigid, inflexible rules and harsh punishments.

[parias1126]

Plenty to do with each other. The sister who threatened to report to CAS is a very by the rules person, and puts the rules in front of her relationship with her family.

 

When rules become most important, and are followed blindly (A rule is a rule is a rule) there's a great potential for relationships suffering.

 

 

 

 

They are not allowed, and they do not break them. But we have very few rules. We have expectations and guidelines. They are followed because they are understood and respected, not because out of fear of punishment.

 

"No stealing" is not a rule per se. Most people don't steal not because it is a rule, but because of their deeper understanding of right and wrong, and their strong moral compass. One can't develop a strong moral compass in an environment of rigid, inflexible rules and harsh punishments.

Well, I'm not going to argue your points here. The fact that you don't have many rules in your house shows that everyone patents differently. I think we should just agree to disagree and call this thread done.

 

The bottom line is that everyone parents differently and the OP probably should just make her own decision on what whe feels is appropriate for punishment with her DD according to her rules in her home.

 

I don't feel that we have a ton of rules in our home either. My children are also good children and know right from wrong which I'm sure is true for most on this board.

 

There does always come a time when a good child will deceive a parent no matter how much they know of right and wrong. Just because a child or teen chooses to do something does not mean that they don't know it is the wrong decision.

 

Even adults make the wrong choices sometimes and have to deal with consequences whether big or small.

 

I really don't know how to respond to the OP though since I caught my DD who is 9 hiding her iPod touch under her covers last week and I didn't see it as a big deal. I just told her to put it away and try to fall asleep as it was 11:00 pm already. The issue with the OP was not necessarily the iPod, but the fact that her DD lied. Lying is frowned upon in our home too, but I haven't been in that situation with an 11 or 12 year old. My DD 18 was never caught in a lie until she was 18. But what she did was completely wrong and doesn't even compare to having an iPod in her bed so I really can't even say what I would have done in a situation as this one.

[beaners]

Bad rules are arbitrary and unnecessarily picky things like:

you can listen to the commercial laden clock radio at night but not your iPod music which you actually like

 

I think this is a mischaracterization. It was an iPod touch that the child could also play games on, not just listen to music.

 

For some children, the extra stimulus of game-playing at bedtime can make the difference between getting enough or not enough sleep. It's tough to follow all those other "reasonable" rules when you are tired and cranky.

[AlmiraGulch]

 

you can be overly punitive and inappropriately give in to anger without even raising a hand to your kids. Id say requiring an essay on christmas bc your kid had her headphones on is pretty inappropriately angry. Its just so grossly out of proportion and smells like too much stress in mom or dad to me.

 

She did not have to write an essay for wearing headphones. She had to write the essay as punishment for LYING. She lost her iTouch for a month NOT for wearing her headphones, but for breaking a family rule of no iTouch in bed.

[meggie]

There are good rules and bad rules in homes. And in nations too, ut let's confine ourselves to the home for the purpose of useful discussion.

 

 

Good rules:

treat people with respect

treat pets with respect

treat other people's/ your own property with respect

 

Bad rules are arbitrary and unnecessarily picky things like:

you can listen to the commercial laden clock radio at night but not your iPod music which you actually like

 

or

 

you can only eat in the living room on the second Tuesday of the month provided it is sunny and dry and mom is in the right frame of mind

 

I also strongly disagree with the concept of forced arbitrary meaningless punishments.

 

Some of us consider "no internet and no game playing while you're supposed to be asleep" a good rule. Apparently, the OP does even if you don't.

[5kidsforME]

There are good rules and bad rules in homes. And in nations too, ut let's confine ourselves to the home for the purpose of useful discussion.

 

 

Good rules:

treat people with respect

treat pets with respect

treat other people's/ your own property with respect

 

Bad rules are arbitrary and unnecessarily picky things like:

you can listen to the commercial laden clock radio at night but not your iPod music which you actually like

 

or

 

you can only eat in the living room on the second Tuesday of the month provided it is sunny and dry and mom is in the right frame of mind

 

I also strongly disagree with the concept of forced arbitrary meaningless punishments.

 

 

Wow, it's your way or the highway? :auto:

[parias1126]

Wow, it's your way or the highway? :auto:

 

This brought back memories! I forgot this one in another thread! That's exactly what my mom used to tell me. It was her way or the highway! :lol::lol::lol:

[coffeefreak]

There are good rules and bad rules in homes. And in nations too, ut let's confine ourselves to the home for the purpose of useful discussion.

 

 

Good rules:

treat people with respect

treat pets with respect

treat other people's/ your own property with respect

 

Bad rules are arbitrary and unnecessarily picky things like:

you can listen to the commercial laden clock radio at night but not your iPod music which you actually like

 

or

 

you can only eat in the living room on the second Tuesday of the month provided it is sunny and dry and mom is in the right frame of mind

 

I also strongly disagree with the concept of forced arbitrary meaningless punishments.

 

Some of us consider "no internet and no game playing while you're supposed to be asleep" a good rule. Apparently, the OP does even if you don't.

 

These statements bring up a good point. I have had other children complain to me about my house rules, and my children have questioned other people's rules. I have told my children, my house, my rules, their house, their rules. If you don't like it, don't go over to their house and likewise if your friends don't like it, they don't have to come over here. While we don't necessarily agree with other families about their rules or reasoning, we have to respect them and we expect them to respect ours.

 

This is where this discussion has reached an impasse. Those who think the OP's rule was wrong (for lack of a better word) will never understand her reasons for punishing her dd. Those who think OP's rule was perfectly rational, agree with punishing her dd, even if they don't like the punishment. The bottom line is we're all different. Different kids, different families, different rules.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

Edited December 27, 2011 by coffeefreak

[unsinkable]

Well, I'm not going to argue your points here.

.

 

:confused: You asked her questions and sunflowers answered them. Why would you ask and then respond this way when she answered?

[parias1126]

:iagree: perfectly said!

These statements bring up a good point. I have had other children complain to me about my house rules, and my children have questioned other people's rules. I have told my children, my house, my rules, their house, their rules. If you don't like it, don't go over to their house and likewise if your friends don't like it, they don't have to come over here. While we don't necessarily agree with other families about their rules or reasoning, we have to respect them and we expect them to respect ours.

 

This is where this discussion has reached an impasse. Those who think the OP's rule was wrong (for lack of a better word) will never understand her reasons for punishing her dd. Those who think OP's rule was perfectly rationa,l agree with punishing her dd, even if they don't like the punishment. The bottom line is we're all different. Different kids, different families, different rules.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[parias1126]

:confused: You asked her questions and sunflowers answered them. Why would you ask and then respond this way when she answered?

 

Isn't it better to agree to disagree rather then argue her points? I think she had good points and it sounds like I parent a lot like she does. I just didn't agree that she should bring another thread into this one to compare the two since they are 2 different threads. One refers to a child and the other refers to a grown woman that is acting as a child (IMO). I didnt really think there was a reason to respond since I agree with part of what she said. I also am not really into WTM drama and would rather avoid it if at all possible, but since you needed a response....there it is :)

[Aelwydd]

My issue with this whole situation is I don't see the OP and her dh as being particularly motivated to find out why their dd lied to them.

 

I have no intention of debating the legitimacy of the OP's "no electronics in bed" rule. She's right, it's her family, her place about where to draw the lines.

 

However, that's not the pertinent part of this situation, IMO. Folks may pontificate all they want about how they feel justified in wielding their parental authority, but to me, all this boils down to is a power-struggle, with no answer as to why. Ok, so the OP and her dh got the point across: no breakey the rules, and especially no lying, or we takey away the toys.

 

Great. Now, please explain to me how that addresses the motivation behind the deception. Jesus said, it's not the things that go into the body that causes sin, but what comes out of the heart. So, you've taken care of the extraneous stuff (iPod confiscation, essays on why lying is bad), but I don't see how you've addressed the heart issue at all. You've just applied law to the outward person, which often gets crappy results in terms of long term real change of a person's character.

 

If anything, focusing solely on winning the power battle ("We're the parents, and you have to obey us!") may have distracted you from the real struggle: whatever divisions in her heart that have made it possible for her to defy her conscience and lie to you.

 

Obviously, you're her parents, she loves you, and I'm sure, she really doesn't want to hurt or disappoint you. Which is why I ask again: what is going on that she pushed past that innate reluctance to outright lie and disobey? That's not an insignificant matter. It's one I would make my focus, not stuff like, "how long should I punish her for."

 

You won't always be able to win the power struggles as she gets older. It's better that you assure a direct line to her true inner feelings and her trust NOW while you still can. It'll be the best means of reaching her later when she appears to be going off course.

 

JMO.

[Tabula Rasa]

You can probably understand the rule and still disagree with the punishment.

 

But the OP doesnt actually object to MUSIC which is what the iPod was being used for- she said she'd be fine with a clock radio.

 

In anycase plenty of people can agree with the rule and still find the punishment to be over strict, or unnecessary. And many have posted to that effect .

 

Actually if you have read the OP's responses, the Ipod Touch was being used to play video games, not listen to music.

[jenn-]

My issue with this whole situation is I don't see the OP and her dh as being particularly motivated to find out why their dd lied to them.

 

I have no intention of debating the legitimacy of the OP's "no electronics in bed" rule. She's right, it's her family, her place about where to draw the lines.

 

However, that's not the pertinent part of this situation, IMO. Folks may pontificate all they want about how they feel justified in wielding their parental authority, but to me, all this boils down to is a power-struggle, with no answer as to why. Ok, so the OP and her dh got the point across: no breakey the rules, and especially no lying, or we takey away the toys.

 

Great. Now, please explain to me how that addresses the motivation behind the deception. Jesus said, it's not the things that go into the body that causes sin, but what comes out of the heart. So, you've taken care of the extraneous stuff (iPod confiscation, essays on why lying is bad), but I don't see how you've addressed the heart issue at all. You've just applied law to the outward person, which often gets crappy results in terms of long term real change of a person's character.

 

If anything, focusing solely on winning the power battle ("We're the parents, and you have to obey us!") may have distracted you from the real struggle: whatever divisions in her heart that have made it possible for her to defy her conscience and lie to you.

 

Obviously, you're her parents, she loves you, and I'm sure, she really doesn't want to hurt or disappoint you. Which is why I ask again: what is going on that she pushed past that innate reluctance to outright lie and disobey? That's not an insignificant matter. It's one I would make my focus, not stuff like, "how long should I punish her for."

 

You won't always be able to win the power struggles as she gets older. It's better that you assure a direct line to her true inner feelings and her trust NOW while you still can. It'll be the best means of reaching her later when she appears to be going off course.

 

JMO.

 

Her response to why did she lie was that she did not want to get caught and be in trouble which means she knew she was doing something she should not have been. Obviously her plan backfired and she got in even more trouble.

 

Actually if you have read the OP's responses, the Ipod Touch was being used to play video games, not listen to music.

 

I cannot say exactly what she was doing on it, just what it is capable of. Maybe after the restriction is over we will look into a radio with a iPod dock. She just got some Christmas money and that would put it to good use. Then she would have to have it docked to be listening to music and not be playing games.

 

I am not trying to be unreasonable. Once she finishes the "sentence" for breaking the established rule, we will consider modifying the rule. We will not change the rule a this point though.

[Aelwydd]

Her response to why did she lie was that she did not want to get caught and be in trouble which means she knew she was doing something she should not have been. Obviously her plan backfired and she got in even more trouble.

 

That explains why she she lied to you after the initial deceit. That does not explain her willingness to lie to you first by telling you she's too sleepy to read, then pretending to go to sleep, while actually doing something else.

 

Do you know why she did that?

 

Chalking it up to just, "Oh, she's being rebellious" or whatever is just a cop out answer, because even if that were the case, again, you are left with the question: why rebellion, why now? What is going on in her life that enabled her to distance herself emotionally enough from you to defy you in that way? That's what I'm encouraging you to find out.

 

What compelled her to go against you and your dh like that? It wasn't an open defiance; it was a planned, deceptive one, and that's what would bother me the most. It's what I would make my focus, the number one issue to address.

 

 

I cannot say exactly what she was doing on it, just what it is capable of. Maybe after the restriction is over we will look into a radio with a iPod dock. She just got some Christmas money and that would put it to good use. Then she would have to have it docked to be listening to music and not be playing games.

 

I am not trying to be unreasonable. Once she finishes the "sentence" for breaking the established rule, we will consider modifying the rule. We will not change the rule a this point though.

I don't think you're being unreasonable either. I agreed with you that it's your rules, and your right to enforce as you see fit. FTR, I don't let my son take electronics to bed either.

 

To me however, the "sentence" is immaterial to the central heart of the issue, which is her motivation. As punishment, it works, for this particular infraction. What I'm saying is perhaps a better aim than punishment would be correction. Do you want to punish bad behavior for one specific infraction, take the metaphorical keys away for a while, or do you want to address her inner steering wheel, so to speak, so she doesn't keep pulling off to the side of the road in future?

 

The stakes now are an iPod at bedtime. In 5 years, it may be her relationship with friends or boys that you are do not approve of. It may be movies or music you find inappropriate. It may be anything. But you won't be able to watch or control her 24/7, and this is the limitation of the "punishment" approach. She'll observe the rules--so long as you are around to enforce them.

 

She needs to see the absolute devotion and responsibility you have to care for her, and how that is what motivates you to discipline her. IMO, punishment is itself, a flawed term. It implies that you are seeking restitution for damages against yourself--you are seeking a kind of repayment, or revenge, for the fact she broke your rules. That's backwards thinking. The rules are for her, not her for the rules. If she breaks your rules, she's hurting herself more than anyone. But punishment puts the emphasis on the broken standard, how to restore the balance of law. It does not do anything to reform her character. THAT may only be done by love. Love corrects, it does not punish, it is not punitive by nature. The challenge for you and your dh is how to apply loving correction to her in a way that communicates and facilitates a way to heal breached trust, and opens up the pathways between you again.

 

That's the challenge for all us parents.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Aelwydd

[lauranc]

:confused: What's wrong with listening to music for the sake of listening to music?

And why on Earth will the iPod never be acceptable? Does it occur to you that she might want to listen to very specific music, and not just any music that happens to play on the radio?

 

What are you planning to do when there is a real issue?

 

I really do not understand why you choose this to make it a battle.

.

 

:iagree: I haven't read through the entire thread, but this (above) is exactly what I was thinking and wondering. I can understand having rules and expecting people to follow them. But there are times when a rule that has always made sense, no longer does--- could be due to age of child or life circumstance.

 

I don't want to be inflexible, and there are *so* many rules that require inflexibility... this wouldn't be one of them for me. In fact-- we used to have the rule that music could be listened to at bedtime, but not books on CD. As the kids got older, I realized that the rule was not necessary--- and now they can listen to a book on CD at night if the choose.

 

I think this is the OP's oldest child, and it's hard--- hard to be the oldest child, hard to be the parent of a child who is getting older and all the changes that come with that.

 

Sometimes rules are broken for a reason. Sometimes our rules are unnecessary and our children are subtly (or not so subtly) telling us that. It's ok to learn from our kids--- relationships give us opportunities to grow and learn!

[Tammyla]

My suggestion was for future inquiries was to encourage honesty and trust as your dd matures, not to question your parenting. kwim?

 

You asked a no win question...kwim???

 

Consider not asking them in the future and simply make a statement and deal with behavior.

 

 

"Hey, you're busted for xxx...Give me the ipod."

 

 

What ever your regular punishment is...give it with a reminder of your rules and move on.

 

My 11 yo blatantly lied to us tonight. I went in earlier this evening surprised she wasn't going to read before going to bed but figured she was tired from the long day. I needed to find her new Kindle so I could put it on the charger so I flipped on her light (she had just gone to bed really) and she dove under the covers. As that is my first response to unexpected light, I thought nothing of it. I found the Kindle and left.

 

Fast forward 30 minutes and DH comes out of the bathroom asking if I was playing a game or something on my computer because he thought he heard music. My speakers stay muted constantly. I check the iPod charger where DD is supposed to keep hers every night after a previous electronics in bed after hours incident and sure enough it wasn't there. :glare:

 

I march down the hall with DH in tow and ask "Do you have your iPod on?" Immediately her answer was "No." "Where is it?" "I don't know." I flip the light on her and she dives under the covers again and I glance at her speaker she uses to listen to her iPod hoping it is plugged in on it. Not there. DH goes to feel for it under her pillow and I spot the headphones. Busted. It was bad to be caught with electronics in her room, but to lie about it!! In DH's world there is no bigger foul than lying to us.

 

Now we are in our never ending difference of opinion of what is an appropriate punishment so I turn to the Hive to see what you would do in this situation. DD is 11.5 yo with no real mental issues (unless you count puberty :glare:).

Edited December 29, 2011 by Tammyla