Sickness = sins

[toawh]

I grew up in a group that believed that if you were sick or caught a cold or had an accident God was dealing with you for a sin; if small kids got sick God was punishing the parents. We were taught to search our hearts for sins, which always came up because no one is perfect. By sin I mean being unkind to someone, being proud, believing in the wisdom of the world, etc.. I don't really believe this anymore, but I've had the flu for 3 weeks now. These old nagging thoughts are bothering me. Especially now when my 6 month old has caught it too. Can anyone show me otherwise in a logical way (Christian or non). I'm sure I could convince myself, but right now my head is pounding and I have the tummy bug.

[NicAnn]

You may get different answers depending on denomination.

 

In my religion, we know God is kind and just. He is not vindictive or cruel. We know He is does not punish people for sins in this world (I can expand on that, but I'll leave it at that for simplicity sake). God would never punish a baby because God is like a kind father, one who IS love and just as a human father would never punish an infant, God wouldn't either.

 

I'm sorry you are sick and that you are hurting. If you are still a Christian or still have a relationship with God, then perhaps praying and meditating on your own will help ease your mind.

[Kertie]

None of the things that happened to Job were because of sin in his life. Don't know if that helps or not;), but it's something to ponder.

 

It really would be a miracle to get through the winter without a cold or the flu!!

[Iucounu]

This sort of belief seems to come from an inability to reconcile the goodness of god with suffering on Earth, and it's one particular approach. It has the appeal of being impossible to falsify-- one could go back far enough in anyone's family tree and find some sort of sin, and one could also attribute any illness to any non-obvious sin of the afflicted or that person's ancestors, suggesting that it must be so and thus it is so.

 

I guess the first thing I'd say is that there's no evidence for such a punishment scheme being true; the simple existence of sin and of illness is not a causal link (else we could as easily suppose that winter is a punishment for the sins of people who live in the North, etc.). In addition, since illnesses vary in severity, one would naturally expect severe illnesses to be the punishment for severe sins-- it wouldn't make much punitive sense to reward un unkind thought with cancer, or murder with a sniffle. It could easily be demonstrated, at least, that if the scheme exists, it is highly inconsistent. Lastly, one could surely find examples of extremely wicked but healthy people with healthy children, which would tend to disprove the theory as explaining anything of value at all. If an explanation for some phenomenon has only random applicability, it's not much of an explanation at all.

[milovany]

I used to believe something along those lines (sin not being the only reason for sickness, though, there were other possibilities; whatever was causing it, it wasn't God's "fault," though, it was my own or the devil's and I needed to either figure it out fight against it).

 

Now I just let God be God. If sickness comes into our lives, it's because He has allowed it (not necessarily caused it, but has allowed it); it's something that can be used by me to "work out my salvation." I don't worry about finding out why I'm sick, nor do I put energy into fighting it. I just try to have a Christ-like response in it, since I think that's our purpose as Christians -- to become like (united with) Christ. For me, having a Christi-like response to it usually means things like not using it as an excuse to be grumpy with my kids or impatient and demanding with my husband.

Edited December 21, 2011 by milovaný

[elegantlion]

I'll just be blunt and call it bull****. God didn't give me cancer at age 26 because of sin. God didn't cause dh's father's accident so he would die at age 32. God does not cause the flu or a cold.

 

If anything God weeps with us when we are hurting and ill. :grouphug: Banish those old thoughts from your head.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Paul told Timothy to drink some wine because of his frequent stomach problems. If he was sick because of sin, Paul would surely have told him so.

 

Also, the disciples asked Jesus if a blind man was blind because of his sin or his parents' sin. Jesus said "Neither."

 

Finally, while Jesus told some people to stop sinning, most sick people he just healed, with no mention of sin. If sinning had caused their illness, he would've mentioned it, don't you think?

[justamouse]

I'll just be blunt and call it bull****. God didn't give me cancer at age 26 because of sin. God didn't cause dh's father's accident so he would die at age 32. God does not cause the flu or a cold.

 

If anything God weeps with us when we are hurting and ill. :grouphug: Banish those old thoughts from your head.

 

:iagree:

 

Paul told Timothy to drink some wine because of his frequent stomach problems. If he was sick because of sin, Paul would surely have told him so.

 

Also, the disciples asked Jesus if a blind man was blind because of his sin or his parents' sin. Jesus said "Neither."

 

Finally, while Jesus told some people to stop sinning, most sick people he just healed, with no mention of sin. If sinning had caused their illness, he would've mentioned it, don't you think?

:iagree:

 

That type of belief (sickness=sin) cripples people's growth with God. It makes them follow out of fear, not love. And, isn't it like saying if she swims, she's a witch and if she sinks she isn't? Which is just another turn on that type of teaching. Those old, bad, teachings don't go away, they just recreate themselves for a new generation.

 

:grouphug:

[Crimson Wife]

Original Sin is the root of all suffering, but unless you're talking lung cancer in a smoker or an STD is a promiscuous person, illness is not the result of personal sin. The flu is a virus, one that infects the virtuous as easily as the wicked. God didn't make you sick to punish you for your sins. You got sick because you were infected by a pathogen, period. It's not for us to know why God allows bad things to happen, but we can have faith that He won't allow anything to happen that we cannot handle with His help.

[eight_gregorys]

Hmmmm....not sure I have a logical explanation. I don't think that sickness = sin. I am chronically ill with several autoimmune diseases and have been for the past 6 years. I cried on my 30th birthday a few weeks ago because it seems the older I get, the worse my disease has become. It is frustrating sometimes. I live with chronic pain. Its not fun.

 

I'm a believer. I wasn't always, but have been for the past decade. While I don't think God is punishing me. I do think he is trying to teach me. I am very much a Type A personality. I like to be in charge of things. I like to make holidays and special occasions "perfect". I have a hard time saying no to people when they ask for my help, and people ask for my help a lot because I give 110%.

 

However, I have six children. There is not enough of me to go around to them, my husband, and to give 110% to everyone else's requests either. There wasn't before I was sick and there definitely isn't now. I think God is trying to teach me to slow down and smell the roses. Basically to not stress the little things....like if my child is wearing a dirty shirt or if my house isn't perfectly spotless. (Yes, these things used to make me crazy. I have 4 sons, so I'm sure you can imagine how insane I was.) I was so focused on all the details that don't really matter, that I wasn't focused on my children and my husband like I should have been. I would always tell my children "later....b/c mommy is busy now". Constantly....I was a miserable person and I wasn't bonding with my children. Hopefully, I articulated in a coherent way.

 

Now, I'm sure this isn't true for everyone. I have a hard time believing that God is punishing those that are sick. We are ALL sinners and fall short from the glory of God. So wouldn't we all be sick.....all the time.

 

In my case, I think my "sickness" has made me a better person, a better mother, and a better wife. I think its part of my refining process...God trying to sand off my blemishes.

[gardenmom5]

I have two - both biblical.

 

1) read Job

2) KJV John 9:1-3

1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

[rieshy]

I suggest you go straight to the Bible to read what it says. Feelings are difficult to overcome.

 

I agree with a previous poster- read Job. The whole point is that he was not guilty of a sin that caused his predicament.

 

Also on forgiveness:

I John 1:7- 2:2

Hebrews 4:16

Mat. 11:28

Acts 3:19

Romans 8:1

Ephesians 1:7

 

The parable in Luke 16:19 is especially interesting. The sick beggar is righteous, the healthy rich man is not.

 

The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. Mat. 5:45

 

I hope you feel better soon!

[Kathleen in VA]

Original Sin is the root of all suffering, but unless you're talking lung cancer in a smoker or an STD is a promiscuous person, illness is not the result of personal sin. The flu is a virus, one that infects the virtuous as easily as the wicked. God didn't make you sick to punish you for your sins. You got sick because you were infected by a pathogen, period. It's not for us to know why God allows bad things to happen, but we can have faith that He won't allow anything to happen that we cannot handle with His help.

 

:iagree:Obviously, there are some sinful behaviors that directly affect our health, but overall God does not punish us by making us sick. We live in a fallen world and until we get to heaven we will have to deal with the effects of that in many ways, most of which are not directly related to our own personal behavior.

 

I have two - both biblical.

 

1) read Job

2) KJV John 9:1-3

1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

 

:iagree:Excellent verses.

[goldberry]

I believe God never intended humans to become sick or die at all. Death and physical imperfection were the results of Adam's choice to disobey and become separated from God.

 

Adam passed that imperfection down to his children and on down the line. I also believe (this is not scripturally supported but makes sense to me) that the further down the line we go, the more imperfect we become.

 

But once Adam became imperfect, and his body started to deteriorate and die, that was passed down to us regardless of what we do. In other words, we couldn't NOT sin, even if we "tried really hard". Hence, Jesus sacrifice. Also passed down was the physical imperfection.

 

So... if we couldn't NOT sin, even if we tried, why would God punish us with sickness? Especially if sickness and death were not something he even wanted for us in the first place.

[milovany]

To everyone that says to "just use Scripture" against the belief that sin causes sickness, it might be helpful to note that in this understand of faith, the Scriptures are also used to validate the beliefs. I'm not at all saying I agree with this interpretation (see my post above); I just wanted to comment on the reality that there are plenty of Scriptures that one could take as meaning God wants believers to "prosper and be in health even as [their] souls prosper" (which is one example) if not interpreted in the proper way.

[justamouse]

 

In my case, I think my "sickness" has made me a better person, a better mother, and a better wife. I think its part of my refining process...God trying to sand off my blemishes.

:grouphug:

 

We can allow suffering to refine us (we can also allow it to make us bitter and resentful). And we all have suffering of some kind. No one on this earth leaves unscathed. I think you're the type of person who is letting God work through it-as in, he didn't come to bring us out of our suffering, but to help us through it. But that doesn't mean he sent it. (I'm not saying that that's what you believe, but sometimes what others interpret.)

[mktkcb]

Biblical answer: not across the board (John chap 9 & many other places...Job comes to mind also), but occasionally (1 Cor. 11, specifically pertaining to the Lord's Supper/Communion).

[HiddenJewel]

Remember the trials and sickness of Job? Yet Job 1:1 says that Job was blameless and upright, feared God, and shunned evil.

[gardenmom5]

It is so easy for people to go in the direction of "if you are righteous, God will bless you and you will have an easy life." Makes me nuts actually. My own personal opinion, is those who hold that position have *weak* faith, and are deluded into thinking if they are good - nothing bad will happen to them and bad things only happen to bad people. In reality, they are afraid and tell themselves that to keep their fear at bay.

 

challenges come in life - they just do, they are part of life. It takes faith and trust in God to go through lousy experiences, and *keep* having faith and trusting in God. God wants us to develop our faith and trust in Him, and allows us to have experiences, both good and bad. As in the case of Job, he was a very righteous man, and had horrendous experiences. we're in the middle of things, so we don't see what the end is yet.

 

a friend recently shared a story she had heard years ago. A man who had many challenges went hunting with his boss. the boss was very successful, and life was fairly easy for him. the boss needled him all day about him choosing to be obedient to God, and how he still had so many challenges. well, they shot two ducks at one time, and they both fell. one was killed outright, and the other was still struggling. the dogs ignored the dead bird, and went for the struggling one. the man commented to his boss, that he was like that dead bird in the water, so satan could safely ignore him. Whereas the man was still struggling, so satan kept going after him.

[gardenmom5]

It is so easy for people to go in the direction of "if you are righteous, God will bless you and you will have an easy life." Makes me nuts actually. My own personal opinion, is those who hold that position have *weak* faith, and are deluded into thinking if they are good - nothing bad will happen to them and bad things only happen to bad people. In reality, they are afraid and tell themselves that to keep their fear at bay.

 

challenges come in life - they just do, they are part of life. It takes faith and trust in God to go through lousy experiences, and *keep* having faith and trusting in God. God wants us to develop our faith and trust in Him, and allows us to have experiences, both good and bad. As in the case of Job, he was a very righteous man, and had horrendous experiences. we're in the middle of things, so we don't see what the end is yet.

 

a friend recently shared a story she had heard years ago. A man who had many challenges went hunting with his boss. the boss was very successful, and life was fairly easy for him. the boss needled him all day about him choosing to be obedient to God, and how he still had so many challenges. well, they shot two ducks at one time, and they both fell. one was killed outright, and the other was still struggling. the dogs ignored the dead bird, and went for the struggling one. the man commented to his boss, that he was like that dead bird in the water (re: didn't care about God), so satan could safely ignore him. Whereas the man was still struggling (re: working to keep the commandments of the Lord), so satan kept going after him.

[myfunnybunch]

If anything God weeps with us when we are hurting and ill. :grouphug: Banish those old thoughts from your head.

 

Yes.

 

Colds and flus are caused by viruses. Viruses are a part of an imperfect world, and we are imperfect humans. If God sent a cold or flu to punish every prideful thought or impatient word, we'd all be sick all the time.

 

:grouphug: Rest, honey. Drink lots of fluids. That's a long time to feel unwell, and you're probably emotionally drained from trying to get well, so it's no wonder these old thoughts are resurfacing. :grouphug:

 

Cat

[ScoutTN]

That is not a biblical idea at all.

You are sick because you caught a virus or have a bacterial infection. While God does at times allow us to experience the logical consequences for our sins, neither a cold nor the flu is that. God is most definitely not punishing you by means of an illness.

 

Sickness, injury and all other evils are a result of the Fall. Sin (capital S) was introduced into the world and every human being (body, heart, mind, will and emotions) is tainted with it and no part of Creation or the natural order is unaffected by it. We live in a fallen world. God permits this and uses all of the apparent evil ultimately for Christians' good and His glory. How? Beyond me to explain or understand, but it seems to me to be the clear teaching of Scripture and I trust God's Word and the God to whom it testifies, the God who Himself came and suffered and died to restore and redeem His people and all of the created order.

 

God is holy and just and must ultimately punish sin, but that does not come in our everyday lives. Either we receive the gift of Christ's righteousness or we suffer the wrath of God at the judgment on the Last Day.

 

In the meantime we live in a broken, bent and tarnished world which while still full of glory and grace is also full of suffering and evil.

 

Sorry you're sick! Try to rest, drink your chicken soup and OJ and I hope you fell better before Christmas.

[Kari C in SC]

Paul told Timothy to drink some wine because of his frequent stomach problems. If he was sick because of sin, Paul would surely have told him so.

 

Also, the disciples asked Jesus if a blind man was blind because of his sin or his parents' sin. Jesus said "Neither."

 

Finally, while Jesus told some people to stop sinning, most sick people he just healed, with no mention of sin. If sinning had caused their illness, he would've mentioned it, don't you think?

 

Excellent post.

[toawh]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. A special thanks to Linda for the verse. It's to the point and something I can give to "concerned" family. Wonder of wonders, I'm feeling a bit better. Hope to be fine by Christmas.

[DawnM]

I am glad you are feeling better.

 

This thread brought up an old memory of a man in a wheelchair years ago attending a "healing crusade" of some sort.

 

Our professor thought he would do a little research and went with a handful of students.

 

They left after a while because they couldn't take anymore. Outside of the Seattle SuperDome they found a man in a wheelchair weeping.

 

Our professor (Christian college) went over to him and asked if he was ok. The man replied that he was told by those inside that since he didn't have faith he could not get out of the wheelchair and went on to question his salvation.

 

THANKFULLY our professor was able to read some scripture with him and pray with him and let him know that his salvation was in no way questioned.

 

It makes me cringe and very sad to thing this line of thinking is still believed about a loving God who sent his son to die for our INIQUITIES.

 

Dawn

 

Thanks everyone for all the replies. A special thanks to Linda for the verse. It's to the point and something I can give to "concerned" family. Wonder of wonders, I'm feeling a bit better. Hope to be fine by Christmas.

[Denisemomof4]

I'll just be blunt and call it bull****. God didn't give me cancer at age 26 because of sin. God didn't cause dh's father's accident so he would die at age 32. God does not cause the flu or a cold.

 

If anything God weeps with us when we are hurting and ill. :grouphug: Banish those old thoughts from your head.

 

:iagree: legalistic bull**** IMO.

 

(I didn't know you had cancer. So glad you're a survivor!)

[arghmatey]

If this were true, I'd have multiple, painful illnesses right now. In reality, I get sick perhaps once a year, and my children very rarely get sick.

[JessReplanted]

Absolutely not! Sickness is a result of sin entering the world after the Fall (Adam and Eve disobeying God). It is not a consequence of individual sin.

[Parrothead]

I'm proof positive that the theory you described (sickness-sin) is incorrect. Otherwise I'd be pretty seriously ill.

 

Seriously, the jacka** Remudamom posted a link about here is not covered in boils and literally puking up his insides as he rightly deserves. The sick bas*&^d that kidnapped and r@ped a 9-year old girl this past week has not been struck dead as he so rightly deserves. (Not that I've done anything remotely like these two, I've just not always been good.)

 

If God hasn't punished these two wastes of space with sickness as dire as they deserve what could you possibly have done that would cause God to make your little baby sick?

 

:grouphug:

[Wendi]

And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

 

John 9:2-3

 

So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me.

But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

2 Chronicles 12:7-10

 

Wendi

[gardenmom5]

I am glad you are feeling better.

 

This thread brought up an old memory of a man in a wheelchair years ago attending a "healing crusade" of some sort.

 

Our professor thought he would do a little research and went with a handful of students.

 

They left after a while because they couldn't take anymore. Outside of the Seattle SuperDome they found a man in a wheelchair weeping.

 

Our professor (Christian college) went over to him and asked if he was ok. The man replied that he was told by those inside that since he didn't have faith he could not get out of the wheelchair and went on to question his salvation.

 

THANKFULLY our professor was able to read some scripture with him and pray with him and let him know that his salvation was in no way questioned.

 

It makes me cringe and very sad to thing this line of thinking is still believed about a loving God who sent his son to die for our INIQUITIES.

 

Dawn

 

I trust the Lord will know what to do with those leading that "crusade", as I'm sure the man in the wheelchair wasn't the only one with his faith undermined. And what a tender mercy of the Lord to the gentleman that your professor was there to reassure him, and correct the false teaching that was being preached inside.

[jelbe5]

My son has autism. I initially struggled with this issue: was my son autistic and disabled because I had sinned in my younger days?

 

I now cling to this Scripture:

 

John 9

 

Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind

 

1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?â€

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,†said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him."

 

I truly believe that God is displaying his works through my son and our family. The fact that my son has autism has caused me to rely more on God. I am also a much more patient person than I ever dreamed I could ever be. My girls have compassion and a heart for others with special needs. Our family has been able to reach out to others who choose to homeschool a struggling learner.

 

Most importantly to me, God has put in front of my eyes what I need to remember daily. Our world says our son is imperfect, broken, damaged. But I love him unconditionally. I still want him to continue to work on bettering himself, but I love him no matter what. I have realized that is how I am to God . . . sinful, imperfect, broken and damaged. But He loves me so much. Yes, He calls me to work at being better. But He still loves me, no matter what. He loved me enough to die for me.

 

And I feel that this, taking something so hard and terrible as autism and turning it around this way, is for His glory and is part of His purpose. His plan is so much bigger than I can understand. Perhaps I will never fully understand it. Even Job did not receive a full answer to his "Why?". But I can be content in the little revelation God has given me. :grouphug:

[MindyD]

We live in a fallen, decaying world. People get sick, cars break, bad things happen at the worst time. It's just the world we live in. Like someone else said, Job went through horrible things in his life, but it was not because of his sin. I hope you and your family feel better very soon! :grouphug:

[reign]

Wow. I am surprised I have never heard of that line of thinking. I am so glad you are no longer in this group. I think it is awful to feel god is punishing your child with sickness becayse you had a unkind thought. I hope you all feel better soon. I know the churches I've been to have never preached anything close to that.

[gardenmom5]

My son has autism. I initially struggled with this issue: was my son autistic and disabled because I had sinned in my younger days?

 

I now cling to this Scripture:

 

John 9

 

Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind

 

1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?â€

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,†said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him."

 

I truly believe that God is displaying his works through my son and our family. The fact that my son has autism has caused me to rely more on God. I am also a much more patient person than I ever dreamed I could ever be. My girls have compassion and a heart for others with special needs. Our family has been able to reach out to others who choose to homeschool a struggling learner.

 

Most importantly to me, God has put in front of my eyes what I need to remember daily. Our world says our son is imperfect, broken, damaged. But I love him unconditionally. I still want him to continue to work on bettering himself, but I love him no matter what. I have realized that is how I am to God . . . sinful, imperfect, broken and damaged. But He loves me so much. Yes, He calls me to work at being better. But He still loves me, no matter what. He loved me enough to die for me.

 

And I feel that this, taking something so hard and terrible as autism and turning it around this way, is for His glory and is part of His purpose. His plan is so much bigger than I can understand. Perhaps I will never fully understand it. Even Job did not receive a full answer to his "Why?". But I can be content in the little revelation God has given me. :grouphug:

:iagree: so well stated.

 

My son is HFASD. before I knew what was going on, I still felt peaceful in that the Lord gave him to me because He trusted me with this sweet little spirit, who is different from "the norm" and has some real struggles. I know that as I pray (constantly) for guidance in how to help him be his best self, that that guidance will come, and is coming.