Caroline Ingalls, a question

[DianeW88]

They are most definitely fictionalized accounts of their lives. If you dig into it and do some scholarly research (there are a lot of first-hand accounts from Laura out there), you will see that she wrote the series as a tribute to her father, that she thought her mother was cold and emotionally detached, very concerned with behavior and outward appearances, that they didn't have a great relationship, and that Rose heavily edited her mother's books.

 

There are some copies of Laura's first (and second drafts) floating around that you can read....the ones she sent to Rose to "go over". What came back as the final edition bears little resemblance to Laura's original prose. And honestly, I don't see this as a problem. They are written to be children's fiction and Laura herself says she whitewashed them heavily, because what child wants to read about disease, other children dying and severe financial hardship?

 

Here are some books to get started if you're interested. If you are looking for others, university libraries or the "deep web" are great places to find scholarly research on her.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Little-House-MISSOURI-BIOGRAPHY/dp/0826210155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324310077&sr=8-1 (This one focuses on Rose and her life. It talks about Laura being a harsh mother, and details Rose's struggles with what was clearly manic depression and other issues. It also quotes Rose heavily about how much she worked on her mother's stories, and how much it irritated her that her mother was always bugging her to do this.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Laura-Ingalls-Wilder-BIOGRAPHY/dp/082621648X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324310077&sr=8-2 (Again, a more scholarly approach to some of the gaps in Laura's life.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Laura-Ingalls-Wilder-Writers-Biography/dp/097779556X/ref=pd_sim_b_1 (This one also focuses on Laura as a writer and how Rose really made these stories what they are today. It speaks to the fact that while Laura was a columnist....her STORY writing skills were weak, and Rose's were exceptional. Rose is really the author of these books...and her libertariarn views on government come through loud and clear in them.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Way-Home-Dakota-Mansfield-Missouri/dp/0064400808/ref=pd_sim_b_9 (Laura's "diary", edited and published by Rose.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Laura-Life-Ingalls-Wilder/dp/0380016362/ref=pd_sim_b_37 (An older biography...I read it in 5th grade...but a good one.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Story-Ingalls-Laura-Wilder-Family/dp/0961008806/ref=pd_sim_b_28 (Great little booklet with lots of photos. Written by William Anderson, Rose's friend, and now "official" Ingalls biographer...per Rose. He has written several booklets and they're all interesting and wonderful. A little white-washed if you're looking for scholarly, but still fun to read.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Ozarks-Ingalls-Wilder-Family/dp/0883659689/ref=pd_sim_b_17 (I love this book! This is a collection of Laura's columns from "The Missouri Ruralist". They are funny and really show the "real" Laura. From spats she has with Almanzo, to catty remarks about other women, to drinking beer on the porch with friends....this is Laura, in her own words.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Laura-Ingalls-Wilder-Country-Wilders/dp/0060973463/ref=pd_sim_b_13 (A favorite of mine for the photos and the story of how she purposefully cried to get Almanzo to build her the chimney she wanted. :D)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Remember-Laura-Ingalls-Wilder/dp/0785282068/ref=pd_sim_b_25 (Another collection of memories from Laura's friends.)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Lauras-Little-House-Treasury/dp/0060278277/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324311244&sr=1-4 (Also love this one. Beautiful illustrations and photos, crafts, great for kids.)

 

There is also a wonderful cookbook featuring Laura's own recipes (not the "Little House" cookbook), but I can't find it on Amazon. I'll look for my copy and post the title. Also, the Laura Ingalls Wilder Foundation offers some great books. We have an old casette tape that has the only known recording of her voice during an interview she did for a library that was being named after her. It was so fun for my kids to hear her speak. I don't know if that's even available anymore, but the LIWF would be the place to look. Laura is a huge hero of mine...more for who she really was than for "her" books. I love her spirit of perserverance and her energy. The real Laura (with all her faults) is much more interesting to me than the sanitized Ingalls family in the children's books.

Edited December 19, 2011 by DianeW88

[caedmyn]

 

http://www.amazon.com/Laura-Ingalls-Wilder-Writers-Biography/dp/097779556X/ref=pd_sim_b_1 (This one also focuses on Laura as a writer and how Rose really made these stories what they are today. It speaks to the fact that while Laura was a columnist....her STORY writing skills were weak, and Rose's were exceptional. Rose is really the author of these books...and her libertariarn views on government come through loud and clear in them.)

 

I'm reading this one right now and I would disagree on your summary of it. It seems pretty clear to me that Laura authored the stories and Rose edited them. She didn't rewrite them or make them what they were, she merely edited them (and she admitted that herself in some of their correspondence). The excerpts from the books are quite similar to the original writing. There are differences, sure, but not enough to say that Rose was the real author IMO.

 

It sounds like much of the basic material for the books was preserved unedited in some of Laura's journals, and it's quite similar to the way the books read, which would seem to disprove the claim that Rose is really the author of them.

 

Also, Rose plagarized those journals to write one of her own novels. I get the impression that Rose was a bit two-faced, saying one thing to some people and something else entirely to others.

[Scarlett]

Here's a funny blog post about Pa Ingalls.

 

If I were married to Pa...

 

That was cute. And I'm with you..Pa would have driven me over the edge.

[DianeW88]

I'm reading this one right now and I would disagree on your summary of it. It seems pretty clear to me that Laura authored the stories and Rose edited them. She didn't rewrite them or make them what they were, she merely edited them (and she admitted that herself in some of their correspondence). The excerpts from the books are quite similar to the original writing. There are differences, sure, but not enough to say that Rose was the real author IMO.

 

It sounds like much of the basic material for the books was preserved unedited in some of Laura's journals, and it's quite similar to the way the books read, which would seem to disprove the claim that Rose is really the author of them.

 

Also, Rose plagarized those journals to write one of her own novels. I get the impression that Rose was a bit two-faced, saying one thing to some people and something else entirely to others.

 

Oh, I agree...Rose had some definite "issues". :lol: And I think I actually got my summaries mixed up. I was thinking of "Ghost in the Little House". The assertions in that book are a bit more critical...although it clearly illustrates Rose's problems, too. Sorry about that. Too early in the morning for me to be coherent. And for what it's worth, my own personal opinion is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of "Laura wrote everything" and "Rose wrote everything." I do feel that Laura wrote down her memories and stories and that Rose edited them together. Similar to what all ghost-writers do. Not that anyone cares about what I think. LOL :D Either way, they're interesting women with incredible stories to tell. I love reading about both of them!

[laughing lioness]

Some of the reading I've done is that Rose wanted to heavily edit Laura's writing and they got into grave disagreements about what would stay in or not. Rose did not get her way and that was a point of contention between the two.

 

We are finishing the series right now (again). I think we evaluate Laura, Ma and Pa from our perspective instead of understanding them as men and woman of their time. Rose is more accessible to us emotionally, because she is, for some of us, a contemporary of our parents or grandparents. Her attitudes and beliefs make sense to us while 2 generations back from that, Ma and Pa do not.

 

My Gram is 96. Her attitudes, beliefs and world view paradigm are DIFFERENT than mine, my kids, etc. She would NEVER EVER bash her MOM or DAD or family (they did some BAD, Bad things). She focuses on the positive in people, even when it is well known that they have ISSUES. She has had a HARD life, with LOT of adversity- she talks about the good things, her purpose, the people she loves. She will say if you focus on the negative and the hardships (she grew up during a time of no electricity, public aid, running water) if would emotionally KILL YOU or send you to crazy -ille. Denial can be a coping mechanism that keeps you emotionally sane and healthy, but in our time of pop-psych and gestalt and throwing our own family members under the bus we forget that.

 

I read these books to my kids and wonder how they go from trauma to trauma and stay as good and kind and loving as they do, all on their own, with just their will and faith. How does Laura have such happy memories? Maybe they are not the physical memories, but the emotional ones. No matter what Ma’s problems or lack of response, Laura’s emotional map of Ma was that she was kind and gentle. If nothing else, Laura honored her Ma by painting a portrait of her Ma as such. I hope someone is as kind to me when I am dead, cause while I am kind and good at heart, I don’t always behaviorally act kind and good.

 

I doubt it was all sweetness and light. I wonder if Ma was dysthymic. All of the kids seem a bit socially avoidant, but I think in an age of no media, little stimulation (we live on the Prairie, believe me, it’s visually boring, it’s socially vanilla), that that might have been the M.O. of most folks.

 

I look at the education the amount of memory work that Laura did as a child, and it does not surprise me that she remembers details. She memorized boatloads of info (it says at one point that she and Mary had memorized Psalms- perhaps the whole book?- and look at the historical recitation she did during Little Town on the Prairie – I think it’s in that book) but she was also painting word pics for her sister from the time she was 12, further imprinting memories.

 

The life that the Ingalls lived was a battlefield of sorts. I’m not talking about the taking the lands from the Indians at all- just the kind of adversity that they experienced. There have been some great historical forensics articles in Archeology (like on worms that ate Herod- gross but totally fascinating). It would be great to write on the Ingalls from that Pov.

Edited December 19, 2011 by laughing lioness

[Rhonda in TX]

That was cute. And I'm with you..Pa would have driven me over the edge.

 

I think Pa had ADHD. :)

[momma aimee]

That was cute. And I'm with you..Pa would have driven me over the edge.

 

But I do not think Pa was really any differnt than any other man of the time -- it was not Pa himself personally that moved here and failed and moved there and failed and so on -- i think that was common of the men, the settlers of that time.

 

I do not think that it was him personally as much as it was common of the time --- lives were differnt back then, expcations were different -- it is alvays a bad idea, and detmental to the people and the writting, to judge anyone based on now.

 

You can not look at the wives of the wangon trains as we do now -- you can not expect from the Docotrs of 200 years ago what you expect today --- families vere differnt, people were differnt -- life vas differnt.

 

I do not think Ma was harsh to expect obedence now, that vas simply common of the time....