New reason for opposition to hs -- a twist on socialization

[kalanamak]

A bright, academically oriented RN from Asia wondered if hs was "good" because a child would not get used to being around kids who were using drugs. In her mind, unless you went to school and met and "learned to avoid" these kids, somehow a child would be more vulnerable to being swayed in college.

 

:001_huh:

 

I replied that kiddo goes to the skateboard park and there are definitely "party kids" there (and non-party kids, too). She said "but the parent is still there, watching out for him". I said I thought a well-informed 18 year old would be LESS likely to be swayed by peer pressure and conformity than a 13 year old, but she was not convinced.

 

I, of course, have never raised a teen, but I clearly remember being stupider and more impulsive at 14 than 18. Am I missing something about teens? Or am I dumbfounded at the thought simply because it is a dumbfounding thought? Aren't "partying" 18 year olds more locked into their own social circle and less likely to give a hoot if one boy doesn't party with them?

 

Am I missing something here?

[NicAnn]

I think I see what she's trying to express. But i think she assumes all homeschooled kids are very sheltered. My Dh was homeschooled and sheltered. When we met, I was basically a teenage pothead, and sure enough there were times when he was swayed to do things the "regular" kids did.

 

Maybe that's what she meant?

[Bang!Zoom!]

I'm stumbling over the connection of the RN + drugs.

 

Maybe there is no connection. But maybe there is.

[elegantlion]

Interesting. I wonder if upbringing might have some influence in that scenario. Some kids may see being 18 as adult enough to indulge, perhaps when they wouldn't consider it at 13. Being away from parents, freedom, these might be reasons one could consider being swayed.

 

I don't know, is the peer pressure more intense at 18? I don't remember as most of my friends smoked and drank anyway. :tongue_smilie:

 

I also don't think homeschooling shut us off from kids that experiment or have deeper issues with drugs or alcohol.

 

As pp said maybe she is assuming the sheltered child.

[kalanamak]

I'm stumbling over the connection of the RN + drugs.

 

Maybe there is no connection. But maybe there is.

 

I don't think so. I included the RN part because a lot of people I work with are .... well, bluntly, pig ignorant. She is definitely smart, to come here as an adult, and go to RN school and learn English at the same time.

 

Perhaps she thinks kiddo will be at our side for 18 years and then suddenly dumped into a dorm. Slightly interesting given the fact she has a cultural tendency to dictate which elective courses are taken, when schools are applied to, etc.

[Alte Veste Academy]

In her mind, unless you went to school and met and "learned to avoid" these kids, somehow a child would be more vulnerable to being swayed in college.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Yes, of course. Because we all know that kids who grow up in school with these kids learn to avoid them.

 

Wait, how do they still exist? :confused:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[WTMCassandra]

This reminds me of the "should learn how to deal with bullies and/or bad teachers" rationalizations. If young people encounter such sad things at more appropriate ages (read: not elementary!!!!) they will have more internal resources to come to grips with the situation. He has the rest of his life to avoid potheads. Sheesh (to her, not you!).

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I wish homeschooling would have kept my child from meeting teens who use and abuse drugs! It might've, but then I took him to church...

 

seriously, drug and alcohol abuse is everywhere. We've run into it in the most conservative places, just because every organization mirrors society at least a little bit.

 

Information, parental involvement, wholesome activities, good mentors, and exemplary friends all help my children stay away from trouble. Their friends rely on the same helps through life, no matter where they go to school.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Yes, of course. Because we all know that kids who grow up in school with these kids learn to avoid them.

 

Wait, how do they still exist? :confused:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

LOL!

[Alte Veste Academy]

Perhaps she thinks kiddo will be at our side for 18 years and then suddenly dumped into a dorm.

 

To be fair, this is the case for some homeschoolers. It's probably a minority, but still. In all seriousness, homeschooled kids need as much, if not more, deliberate discussion about the dangers of peer pressure as public schooled kids. I talk with my kids about it all the time. Basically, if you're doing something to make people like you, to feel or look cool, something which is encouraged by friends but makes you uncomfortable...blah, blah, blah...

 

At their present ages, my kids have limited opportunities to be burned by friendship or bullied/pressured toward compliant "normalcy" compared to their public schooled peers. I'll admit that my kids are naive compared to PS kids. This is purposeful now because I believe kids are being forced to grow up to fast. Letting the world in bit by bit is definitely in my long-term plan, as a means of helping them practice the skills of assertiveness, verbal self-defense, and extricating themselves from sticky situations before they leave my house and get to the dorm.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

To be fair, this is the case for some homeschoolers. It's probably a minority, but still.

 

I'm sure you're right, but, I remember a lot of college freshmen who acted like they'd never been out of the house without a parent or chaperone before. And they hadn't been homeschooled.

[LaxMom]

I would counter that the society you are surrounded by shapes your cultural mores. I would prefer my children go off to college thinking recreational drug use is not the "norm".

[Pretty in Pink]

IDK. I guess HSers could give into that peer pressure, but so do plenty of public school students. That's like saying that HS kids will be shy or won't know how to make friends. I solely attended public schools and I was always shy and had few friends. I think individual personality has the most to do with those sorts of things.

[Tarreymere]

:lol:

Yeah, we have heard this one. That we need to send the kids to school so they won't be naive about drugs and sex. So they can experiment, so they will know first hand what those things are all about because if they do then nobody can take advantage of them in the future (?). So that they can make those mistakes young and get over them.

 

Yeah, I'm really interested in having my kids become more sophisticated about drugs and sex. Whoo hoo, I must enroll them forthwith!

[Jenny in GA]

A bright, academically oriented RN from Asia wondered if hs was "good" because a child would not get used to being around kids who were using drugs. In her mind, unless you went to school and met and "learned to avoid" these kids, somehow a child would be more vulnerable to being swayed in college.

 

 

Interesting ... nine years ago, when my oldest was a baby, a neighbor with a baby the same age felt the same way. She thought homeschooling was a bad thing, and specifically mentioned that public schooled kids "learn to say no to drugs" -- not because of drug-awareness programs, but just from being in the environment of public schools. Heh, I had forgotten about that. If there was something more specific to her thinking, I can't remember it now.

[Guest submarines]

I just heard this argument a couple of weeks ago. :confused: :lol:

 

Riiiiiight. I need to have my 9 yo in school so she would be offered drugs, and then will have the opportunity to say no to drugs. Because this is exactly what a great childhood should be about. :glare:

[zaichiki]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Yes, of course. Because we all know that kids who grow up in school with these kids learn to avoid them.

 

Wait, how do they still exist? :confused:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Good one!

[zaichiki]

I would counter that the society you are surrounded by shapes your cultural mores. I would prefer my children go off to college thinking recreational drug use is not the "norm".

 

Seriously.

[Tap]

I can see the correlation but I don't agree with it.

 

I hear this argument as saying this:

 

Young kids are more likely to follow 'parental pressure' and decline alcohol and drugs.

 

Older kids are less likely to follow 'parental pressure' and give in to increasing 'peer pressure'.

 

 

By allowing younger kids to develop a stance of saying 'no' at a younger age, the theory assumes they will continue to say 'no' as an older teen.

 

Obviously, the variables change so much in between the ages that the theory breaks down for most kids.

[acurtis75]

I think the rn's theory is flawed. Everything I've ever read about children who avoid drugs has nothing to do with when or how they were exposed but rather with whether or not they made the decision about what their boundaries were BEFORE they were offered alcohol or drugs.

[QuirkyKapers]

I would counter that the society you are surrounded by shapes your cultural mores. I would prefer my children go off to college thinking recreational drug use is not the "norm".

:iagree: I have never heard that argument about socialization. I think if you are sheltered/restricted and you don't talk as a family about issues, there is a chance that you will get to college and rebel whether your are homeschooled or not.

[AndyJoy]

I attended some public school and some Christian school. I was never offered drugs, alcohol, or even a cigarette. I didn't hang out with kids who were into that, so I never had to say no.

 

I was offered alcohol at a party with coworkers (many underage) when I was 20 and turned it down. My sleazy 28-year-old boss (and several incredulous others) decided I was too uptight and that he would make it his summer project to get me to drink. He failed.

 

I remember my dad talking to me when I was 13. He said he wasn't worried that I would ever try drugs, cigarettes, or alcohol (while underage) because I didn't give into peer pressure. He told me he was worried that my 11-year-old sister would, though. He was right on both counts. We both attended the same schools. Our personalities, character, and choice of friends had more to do with it than educational environment.

[Bang!Zoom!]

There is, for me...a certain shade of irony present.

 

I think the generalization of socialization trumping the overall education of a person educated at home leading to a disadvantage in life...just sort of short-sighted.

 

I could think of a million stopping points where the opportunity and probable follow-up of character education and simply understanding some simple science or morals happening as examples as why NOT to- tipping the scales in favor of a home educated person vs. others.

 

-----

 

It might have been over a year ago, while my youngest daughter, enrolled in PS came trotting home with a DARE folder and a week long "awareness" program being part of the ordinary week.

 

I totally blew a gasket, there was no opt-out. It just "appeared".

 

It turned, for me, into a case of "can't beat em'-join em" type of thing. For that week, we sat at home, studied together what illegal drugs were, what constituted abuse, the reasons for it, the impacts on families, children, societies.

 

We went alone and visited with various pharmacies, talked to them, I let her take her own notes. We popped into her pediatric office for a five minute meet-n-greet (her doctor was happy to comply) - to discuss what it meant at her level. We talked about churches, outreach programs they had.

 

And more.

 

You get the idea.

 

Now that was while being enrolled in PS and having it blindsided as a topic for us.

 

A home educated child at any point has many more opportunities and avenues to explore by both example, community interaction at LARGE (not just peers)-and even self-study.

 

I guess one point of view is a maturing defensive scale, the other worried about the innocent having no offensive position as a young adult with no background to work with.

 

Who's better off?

 

Both examples are extreme and hypothetical with lots of shades of gray; neither based on solid logic or law or pattern.

 

-----

 

I'm reminded of a thread somewhere recently where an eldest daughter working as a EMS came home to lecture a younger about results of dangerous behaviors...that was awesome. Epic actually.

 

If I had to bet the farm on it, I'd lay my money that the idea comes to fruition much less than she thinks it might, but to cancel it completely isn't exactly fair either.

 

Might happen and it's a topic to explore.

[Alte Veste Academy]

A home educated child at any point has many more opportunities and avenues to explore by both example, community interaction at LARGE (not just peers)-and even self-study.

 

A home educated child has exactly as many opportunities as he/she is allowed to have. Yes, the possibilities are seemingly endless, but what is possible is not always allowed or encouraged.

 

I don't disagree with your other points. :)

[Mommy22alyns]

This reminds me of the "should learn how to deal with bullies and/or bad teachers" rationalizations. If young people encounter such sad things at more appropriate ages (read: not elementary!!!!) they will have more internal resources to come to grips with the situation. He has the rest of his life to avoid potheads. Sheesh (to her, not you!).

 

:iagree:

[ThisIsTheDay]

A bright, academically oriented RN from Asia wondered if hs was "good" because a child would not get used to being around kids who were using drugs. In her mind, unless you went to school and met and "learned to avoid" these kids, somehow a child would be more vulnerable to being swayed in college.

 

I don't think a "bright, academically oriented RN from Asia" is any authority on hsers and "socialization," particularly in the Americas, Europe, or Australia, where most of our WTM members are from.

[Bang!Zoom!]

A home educated child has exactly as many opportunities as he/she is allowed to have. Yes, the possibilities are seemingly endless, but what is possible is not always allowed or encouraged.

 

I don't disagree with your other points. :)

 

Good point.

[kalanamak]

I don't think a "bright, academically oriented RN from Asia" is any authority on hsers and "socialization," particularly in the Americas, Europe, or Australia, where most of our WTM members are from.

 

No, but she is a very kindly person and a very good nurse. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't completely off base about teens .... I mean, most 18 year olds have a bit more sense than most 14 year olds, right?

 

Drugs are a HORRIBLE problem here, and since I work with the adult results of these drugs, every day we deal with people who can barely remember how to dress and bathe themselves after too many years of huffing. Huffing seems to start pre-13 around here.:thumbdown: