Question about tithing.

[Parrothead]

I hope people understand that this wasn't entirely acurate. Yes, Joseph Smith himself, and other modern prophets since his time, have spoken of tithing, but as MamaSheep's excellent post talks about, there is faaaaaar more to our belief in tithing than just that, and the Book of Mormon actually says very little about tithing.

 

My family pays tithing. Couldn't imagine not paying it. I enjoy having a heated chapel to worship in, and curriculum to teach my Sunday School class with, etc. etc. :)

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

[jennsmile]

I hope people understand that this wasn't entirely acurate. Yes, Joseph Smith himself, and other modern prophets since his time, have spoken of tithing, but as MamaSheep's excellent post talks about, there is faaaaaar more to our belief in tithing than just that, and the Book of Mormon actually says very little about tithing.

 

My family pays tithing. Couldn't imagine not paying it. I enjoy having a heated chapel to worship in, and curriculum to teach my Sunday School class with, etc. etc. :)

 

 

What you attend an LDS church where they heat the building! Not fair. Ours is either freezing or roasting depending on the outside temperature.

[Xuzi]

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

No, it doesn't surprise me. I'm more just explaining why I don't feel it's wasted money (not that any one in this thread has said that), even if I don't immediately see any PERSONAL blessings from it.

 

And absolutely we give more. As has been mentioned, LDS doesn't have paid clergy. When I teach my Sunday School class it's free of charge. Our Bishops (serving in much the same roll as a Pastor, except they don't preach much) are not paid. Our youth programs are run by volunteers. Our welfare program is run by volunteers. Our missionaries pay their own way, etc. etc. We give of our money, time, and talents to the building up of the Kingdom of God, and doing His work here on the earth. Tithing pays for the tools to do these things (buildings to meet in, materials to teach from, copies of scriptures to learn from, farms to grow food for our welfare programs, etc.) and we use them to the best of our abilities to do the work.

[dangermom]

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

No. But in the LDS church, building maintenance is taken out of tithing, that's all. Food pantries are actually a different animal, as below---

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

We have a bunch of other categories to 'officially' give in, plus of course whatever outside charities one would like to give to. In the LDS Church you can give specifically to food for the needy (fast offerings), humanitarian aid, missions funds, temple funds, the PEF (scholarships for poor students in other countries), and so on.

 

And then there's the time and talent part! :)

[Jane in NC]

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

 

May I piggyback a question onto this? I have the impression (which may not be accurate) that many donate their tithe directly to their church. Or does this tithe include donations to other community organizations?

[6packofun]

 

People who are poor can't afford NOT to pay their tithing because if you don't show the faith God can't bless you with what you need.

 

My giving or not giving does not bind MY God's power to bless in any way. I don't believe that's a Biblical statement.

 

I think there IS a correspondence between the responsibility we take with what God has given us, including offering it back to Him, and how He chooses to bless us and give us *more* responsibility. But to say that poor people will continue to suffer because they can't tithe sounds like it comes from a different Bible than I'm reading.

 

Example: We didn't have ANY money for Christmas this year AND we have not been able to tithe 10% this month. Yet, we received a money order for the *exact* amount we wanted to have! We tithed 10% of THAT and immediately after buying all the gifts we could with what was left, our van broke down and we don't have a dime to fix it. God can choose to help us fix it or not, regardless of what we've given at church. I have to stay home from church along with a few other kids because we don't all fit in our other vehicle. So am I supposed to believe that God's not letting us get to church to worship Him *because* we didn't tithe *enough*?? LOL God gives and takes away and has a master plan that is not thwarted by any puny thing we do. He's looking at my heart and my sacrifice and He knows it all.

[jennsmile]

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

 

I know in the LDS church we pay tithing, there is also a place for Fast offerings, ward mission fund, general mission fund, Perpetual Education Fund, Temple fund, Humanitarian fund and Other. I might be missing something as I don't have a slip in front of me.

 

So yes in addition to tithing we contribute to other things as well. And of course we contribute our time in our callings as we have a lay ministry.

 

Here is your quick reference to the above mentioned items.

 

Fast offerings are used to provide food or help to those in the ward/branch who are in need. Extra is shared in the larger area called a stake and excess is then sent to Salt Lake where it can be sent to areas that might need more support.

 

Ward Mission can pay for those serving from our area if the family can't.

Not sure on the General Fund but guessing book of mormons or helping missionaries.

 

Perpetual Education fund serves 3rd world countries and pays to further the education of an individual with small loans that are then paid back. They might go to school or learn a trade. The principal is never touched in the fund and only the interest is used and is then paid back by the borrower so there will always be a fund.

 

Temple fund builds temples.

 

Humanitarian Aid offers assistance anytime there is a diasater. The work behind the scenes with Red Cross and other groups. Providing food, supplies, hygiene kits, newborn kits, school kits, and other things.

[Xuzi]

My giving or not giving does not bind MY God's power to bless in any way. I don't believe that's a Biblical statement.

 

I think there IS a correspondence between the responsibility we take with what God has given us, including offering it back to Him, and how He chooses to bless us and give us *more* responsibility. But to say that poor people will continue to suffer because they can't tithe sounds like it comes from a different Bible than I'm reading.

 

.

I think more is being read into sewingmama's statement than was meant. In no way does LDS theology teach that those suffering hardship who do not tithe will continue to suffer that hardship unless they tithe.

 

From the scripture that's already been quoted from Malachi, tithing opens the windows of heaven! The blessings that will come to a person because of that are individiual to that person. Their hardships may continue, but they'll might be more able to bare them, or they'll gain some experience that from the hardship, that, when they're in better times, will greatly help them. Only the Lord knows what those blessings might be. Of course He will bless them no matter what they do, but the blessings may be different.

[jennsmile]

My giving or not giving does not bind MY God's power to bless in any way. I don't believe that's a Biblical statement.

 

.

 

The scripture often cited in relation to tithing is found in Malachi 3. You are welcome to read it for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

[jennsmile]

I think more is being read into sewingmama's statement than was meant. In no way does LDS theology teach that those suffering hardship who do not tithe will continue to suffer that hardship unless they tithe.

 

.

 

Xuzi we need to stop posting at the same time. :lol:

[jennsmile]

May I piggyback a question onto this? I have the impression (which may not be accurate) that many donate their tithe directly to their church. Or does this tithe include donations to other community organizations?

 

 

Yes many tithe to their local church. Even listening to Dave Ramsey he defines a tithe as 10% to your local church. Beyond that you are welcome to bless the lives of others in whatever way you see fit.

[simka2]

May I piggyback a question onto this? I have the impression (which may not be accurate) that many donate their tithe directly to their church. Or does this tithe include donations to other community organizations?

 

I want to piggyback my own question. What do our Jewish posters believe about tithing? :001_smile:

[jennsmile]

I want to piggyback my own question. What do our Jewish posters believe about tithing? :001_smile:

 

:bigear:

[Parrothead]

I want to piggyback my own question. What do our Jewish posters believe about tithing? :001_smile:

That would be interesting to know.

[MamaSheep]

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

 

Of course not. I just prefer our church's method of obtaining and managing funds. :)

 

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

 

Of course. You may remember that we mentioned that in the LDS church the congregations are staffed by unpaid volunteers? That's us. Almost all adult members of a ward have some assignment or other, though what that might be specifically shifts around as needed. My current assignment is as the assistant ward librarian. I hand out scriptures, chalk, crayons, scissors, pictures, table or floor easels, videos and video players, extra lesson manuals, etc., run the copy machine, whatever the other members need to teach their classes or their families. It's a really good place for me right now because it doesn't require any prep time and I can be available if either of my special needs kids should suddenly need me. But I've also served as a leader in the women's organization at various levels and as a teacher in several organizations, as well as pianist and choruster. I've been in charge of coordinating mid-week activities of various kinds for various organizations. I have a "visiting teaching" route in which I visit assigned ladies on a monthly (theoretically...I have to admit I'm not as consistent as I should be) basis in their homes along with another lady, to give a brief gospel message and check to see if the family needs anything. If they do, there's someone I can report back to so that they can have meals taken in or get help with Christmas gifts for their kids or a new coat or whatever need isn't being met. I recently re-wrote part of a script for a Christmas program at the request of a member of the Relief Society presidency. My husband has served as counsellor to several bishops, as a high priests' group leader, taught classes for "investigators" and new converts, and so forth. He is currently a teacher for a class of nine year-olds, which he is enjoying because before that it was four year-olds and they really wore him out. Periodically we help out with whatever the local "welfare project" is. The church has various farms and food processing plants that are operated mostly by volunteer labor, and the food produced is distributed to people who need it. Here it's a meat packing plant, and we sometimes are asked pitch in at a wet pack cannery up the road. When we lived in Georgia it was a grape vineyard. My sister in Wyoming contributes her time at a tomato farm and cannery. It's not very often, but it does make a difference for people, and that's a good feeling. This is all pretty typical of how members contribute time and talent. Also, I help run a local autism support group, but that's not through the church.

 

As far as additional financial donations, yes, we contribute financially in other ways at church as the opportunity arises and we feel we can afford it. I don't really feel comfortable detailing our family's giving in public, as I feel it's a private matter between us and the Lord, but I'm happy to give a general idea of other opportunities for giving through the church. On the first Sunday of the month, the church worldwide has what we call Fast Sunday. Members who want to participate will fast for two meals/24 hours, and donate the money they would have spent on those meals (or whatever other generous amount they feel inclined to give) to a "fast offering" fund, which is used to help the needy in the local area. The church also has a humanitarian fund to which we can contribute, which is used to help with things like disaster relief efforts, clean water initiatives, neonatal resuscitation training for doctors and midwives in poorer areas, orphanage assistance, and other things like that all over the world. We can contribute to a fund that pays to print copies of the Bible and Book of Mormon that are distributed for free. We can contribute to funds to help missionaries who can't afford to pay for their own missions. We can contribute to temple building funds. And there are various other opportunities for giving through the church. And we also choose to donate to charities outside the church as well, such as the local food bank or homeless shelter, or a fund for some kind of medical research. I'm sure you know about community giving opportunities already, so I won't make a list.

 

But yeah, we do give above and beyond the 10%. The 10% tithe is the Lord's money. I also give some of mine. It makes me happy. And I'm happy to help out where I can, and I don't need to be paid to do it, either at church or in the autism group. I do have to pick and choose, and make sure there's a good balance in my life--I don't have time to do the "peer parenting" stuff with the foster care program that someone asked me about, for example--but yeah, for LDS people giving is pretty much a lifestyle, whether it's money or time and talent.

[gardenmom5]

I certainly hope that she ASKED them to do that.

 

'Cause I have a friend whose husband works at one of the local mega churches, and they TOLD him they would be taking 10% out of his check. Yep. And he knows if he balks, they'll fire him. And they'll say it's for some other reason. The man already works two jobs to support his family, and clearly, in this economy in our state, cannot afford to jeapordize his job.

 

And NO, he and his family do not attend that church.

 

I can't WAIT until the Lord finds that man another job, so I can send a SCATHING letter to that church. How disgusting.

 

That's disgusting. a commandment from God is voluntary, we choose to obey or not - He doesn't force anyone, they must be freewill offerings. churches that do that to their employees are way too controlling for me.

 

I think a letter to the EOAC or the state employment dept would be more helpful. or maybe the IRS.

[gardenmom5]

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

 

yes.

[amey311]

I want to piggyback my own question. What do our Jewish posters believe about tithing? :001_smile:

 

I know when I nannied for a reformed Jewish family, the children always brought money - tzedakah - to Hebrew School classes with them. Here's some more information on that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzedakah

[gardenmom5]

What you attend an LDS church where they heat the building! Not fair. Ours is either freezing or roasting depending on the outside temperature.

 

when was it built? our HVAC, the heat works in the summer, and the air in the winter. ;) It was built in the 60's.

[gardenmom5]

May I piggyback a question onto this? I have the impression (which may not be accurate) that many donate their tithe directly to their church. Or does this tithe include donations to other community organizations?

 

we tithe directly to the church - we believe those entrusted with the funds prayerfully and carefully determine what to use it for. (and there are audit statments for them every year.) We believe givinig to the community is charitable, but it is not tithing to the Lord.

[simka2]

I know when I nannied for a reformed Jewish family, the children always brought money - tzedakah - to Hebrew School classes with them. Here's some more information on that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzedakah

 

Thank you. I knew that those who practice Judaism could run circles around me in the realm of financial charity, I just wasn't sure where it came from.

 

I looked further and found this site:

http://etzahaim.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=29

This stood out to me,

 

Conclusion

 

If a person can afford to give ten percent of his income to the poor and to support the Yeshivot he should continue to do so.

A person who tithes his income is allowed to subtract from the tithe the cost of supporting his children over the age of six, even if they are dependent on him.

Similarly a person may use his 'maaser' money to pay for his children's weddings and apartments, furniture etc. to enable themselves to get established. Especially if his sons and sons in law are learning Torah, it is a tremendous mitzvah to support them honorably.

A person who, because of financial constraints is unable to give ten percent of his gross income may give ten percent of what is left of his income after subtracting his household expenses.

[jennsmile]

when was it built? our HVAC, the heat works in the summer, and the air in the winter. ;) It was built in the 60's.

LOL! Yep that sounds about right. Ours was built about 30 years ago. We got new carpet about 2 years ago and they did a facelift on the walls and painted the brown burlap stuff a light cream with splatters. ;) I just laughed 2 weeks ago as the air shut off and I was finally warming up when a sweet sister turned on the "heat" again and the cold air starting blowing. Glad I had my coat...

[mytwomonkeys]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

 

yes. And my children are being taught to as well. We serve within the church and community. We financially give within the church and the community as well.

[6packofun]

My comments are based on the words "God can't" which I believe are incompatible with what the Bible says. It's very different to say God cannot do something because of something we do or don't do than it is to say that God *will* not or might choose not to. It's fine if you don't think the distinction is important, but I'm giving my opinion that it IS.

[gardenmom5]

. . . . On the first Sunday of the month, the church worldwide has what we call Fast Sunday. Members who want to participate will fast for two meals/24 hours, and donate the money they would have spent on those meals (or whatever other generous amount they feel inclined to give) to a "fast offering" fund, which is used to help the needy in the local area. .

 

I would like to add - that is seen as a minimum. Many give more (sometimes much more) than "the cost of two meals" for their fast offerings on a regular, monthly basis, in addition to tithing.

 

We have in our ward a couple who for several years worked closely with the Red Cross and council of churches coordinating local disaster relief. e.g. a couple years ago, there was a real threat of an earthen dam failing - with tens of thousands of people living below it. the rainy season started months before repairs could be completed, so much contingency planning was in place. Both the red-cross rep and the Archdiosce Cardinal (since retired) were in awe of how easy it was to get mormons to donate time and the supplies on hand. (they frequently asked "how do you do it?") i.e. several years ago, there was severe flooding across the freeway and towns at that point. people went with shovels to help people dig out their homes, emergency meals were prepared and distributed, emergency supplies for those displaced were distributed.

 

I know in hurricane and tornado zones, mormon work crews are some of the first groups allowed in to help with the clean up because they are so well organized. the help is free to those who receive it, and those who go are paying for their own tools and gas to get there. There are no requirements of those who are assisted, only that it is needed.

[MamaSheep]

May I piggyback a question onto this? I have the impression (which may not be accurate) that many donate their tithe directly to their church. Or does this tithe include donations to other community organizations?

 

Speaking from an LDS point of view, I think we have a slightly different view of what the church is than some people of other faiths. To us, the church is not an institution established by man with the purpose of worshipping God, and it's not just a religious themed community organization. To us, the church is an institution that was established by God and that operates under the ongoing direction and authority of God. It's God's "kingdom" on earth at this time of history. Tithing is to be given to God, through God's authorized representatives. And those authorized representatives are expected to consult with God as to how to use God's funds to do God's work. To give the tithe to some other organization would feel (to me) like giving money to the Canadian government and trying to claim that that it was a payment toward my U.S. income tax. I'm sure the Canadian government could find a good use for it, but it's not a payment toward my tax obligation as a citizen of the U.S. Similarly, I consider my tithing to be an obligation I owe to God. Someone else might find a good use for it if I gave it to them, but it would not be a payment to God. So I give to God what I consider to be His, through what I consider to be his duly established and authorized channels, and then I also contribute to other causes and organizations and individuals through other channels as I see fit. But I don't consider that tithing, just giving.

[mytwomonkeys]

Speaking from an LDS point of view, I think we have a slightly different view of what the church is than some people of other faiths. To us, the church is not an institution established by man with the purpose of worshipping God, and it's not just a religious themed community organization. To us, the church is an institution that was established by God and that operates under the ongoing direction and authority of God. It's God's "kingdom" on earth at this time of history. Tithing is to be given to God, through God's authorized representatives. And those authorized representatives are expected to consult with God as to how to use God's funds to do God's work. To give the tithe to some other organization would feel (to me) like giving money to the Canadian government and trying to claim that that it was a payment toward my U.S. income tax. I'm sure the Canadian government could find a good use for it, but it's not a payment toward my tax obligation as a citizen of the U.S. Similarly, I consider my tithing to be an obligation I owe to God. Someone else might find a good use for it if I gave it to them, but it would not be a payment to God. So I give to God what I consider to be His, through what I consider to be his duly established and authorized channels, and then I also contribute to other causes and organizations and individuals through other channels as I see fit. But I don't consider that tithing, just giving.

I'm not LDS but I feel the same way. We do give above our tithe...sometimes financially...sometimes food...clothes..community service, etc.

[Mom-ninja.]

My sister and BIL say they don't go regularly to church (Catholic) because they feel guilty for not having the money to give in the collection basket.

 

They don't have to give, but feel uncomfortable every time the basket is passed around.

[mytwomonkeys]

My sister and BIL say they don't go regularly to church (Catholic) because they feel guilty for not having the money to give in the collection basket.

 

They don't have to give, but feel uncomfortable every time the basket is passed around.

 

For all anyone knows they could give online. We havent given in the offering plate for years and I don't care that it passes by me each week. Tell them not to worry about it...really...it is no ones business

[TravelingChris]

That post about the Jewish practice was very interesting to me. Because while I give to the church, I am not tithing. Unlike almost all the other mothers of children under 18, I don't work. I haven't worked since my oldest was 3, so for 20 years. I consider my work with my family to be what I am supposed to be doing for God right now along with my work for my community ( I tutor a first grader from a poor family). I am also having to somewhat support my adult son who hasn't been able to secure employment yet. So when you look at the costs of supporting my adult son and my dauighter in college along with the youngest, I am definitely tithing.Anyway, I have peace about what we are giving. I don't consider any church that checks on whether people are tithing or giving enough to be on the right side of Christianity. It should be between the giver and God and really know human other than the giver should be figuring out what percentage one is giving. I also give some of our money to other Christian organizations.

[Dustybug]

And when I was a Baptist, one of the Church Deacons would show up at your house with your tithing envelopes and to find out your pledge. :confused: Southern Baptist

 

I grew up southern baptist and my church never would have done that. I think I would have had a few choice words to say if they did. :glare: I am an independent baptist now though.

 

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

 

 

No, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I know that God can bless whenever He sees fit, however he sees fit and provides regardless of a tithe. And we do volunteer for other ministries/help where we can outside of the 10%.

[amey311]

My sister and BIL say they don't go regularly to church (Catholic) because they feel guilty for not having the money to give in the collection basket.

 

They don't have to give, but feel uncomfortable every time the basket is passed around.

 

I've been thinking about this lyric over and over again with all these postings about people who feel they cannot attend church because they cannot add to the collection plate. I don't attend church, but I would never think that I couldn't go to services because I couldn't contribute to the plate. Money shouldn't separate you from your god in this way, IMO.

 

And the sign said, "Everybody welcome.

Come in. Kneel down and pray."

But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all,

I didn't have a penny to pay

So I got me a pen and a paper

And I made up my own little sign.

I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me.

I'm alive and doin' fine."

[MamaSheep]

I would like to add - that is seen as a minimum. Many give more (sometimes much more) than "the cost of two meals" for their fast offerings on a regular, monthly basis, in addition to tithing.

 

...

 

You're absolutely right, thanks for chiming in. Also, I can't believe I left out the Perpetual Education Fund. That's one of my favorites even though I don't get to contribute as much or as often as I would like. I mean really, low interest loans to poverty stricken people that helps them get an education that benefits them and their community, and that they repay so the money can help the next person? Good stuff there. Also I love that 100% of donations to the humanitarian fund go toward ACTUALLY HELPING PEOPLE because the church covers administrative stuff with volunteer labor and with other church funds (like tithing) so that the money that's given to help the needy actually goes toward helping the needy, and not advertizing or paying some director's salary. I LOVE that. It frustrates me sometimes when I give to other charities to know that only 30 cents of my dollar or whatever is going to the actual cause I'm trying to help with. But I do understand that the people who run the thing need to be paid, and that's fine as long as it's managed responsibly.

 

My sister and BIL say they don't go regularly to church (Catholic) because they feel guilty for not having the money to give in the collection basket.

 

They don't have to give, but feel uncomfortable every time the basket is passed around.

 

This is one reason I like that our church handles donations privately instead of passing around a plate. People shouldn't feel self-conscious if they can't contribute, but it's hard not to.

[Colleen in NS]

People who are poor can't afford NOT to pay their tithing because if you don't show the faith God can't bless you with what you need.

 

God cannot "pour out a blessing" upon us if we do not first exercise faith by keeping this commandment.

 

Why do you think He can't/cannot "bless you with what you need" or "pour out a blessing" on people who don't tithe (in the sense of this thread) - esp. the poor? Is He incapable of providing for the poor unless they tithe to a church?

 

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

 

Um, dumb question that I am too lazy to find an answer for elsewhere...where exactly do these churches get their funding from, if not asking for "tithes" from members?

[MamaSheep]

Why do you think He can't/cannot "bless you with what you need" or "pour out a blessing" on people who don't tithe (in the sense of this thread) - esp. the poor? Is He incapable of providing for the poor unless they tithe to a church?

 

My response to this question, which I'm pretty sure clarifies what these ladies (who belong to the same church I do) probably meant by this can be found in post number 90 on this thread. I'm not going to type it out again, but it's just the first paragraph in that post. Hope it helps to clarify. :)

 

Um, dumb question that I am too lazy to find an answer for elsewhere...where exactly do these churches get their funding from, if not asking for "tithes" from members?

 

Voluntary donations not referred to as "tithes", and fundraising projects like church bazaars, bookstores, yard sales, spaghetti dinners, etc.

[HeatherM2]

I've been thinking about this lyric over and over again with all these postings about people who feel they cannot attend church because they cannot add to the collection plate. I don't attend church, but I would never think that I couldn't go to services because I couldn't contribute to the plate. Money shouldn't separate you from your god in this way, IMO.

 

It doesn't separate me from my God. God doesn't live in the church buildings. Worship can be anywhere.

[Parrothead]

 

 

 

Um, dumb question that I am too lazy to find an answer for elsewhere...where exactly do these churches get their funding from, if not asking for "tithes" from members?

I can only speak as a Catholic so others may have a different answer.

 

The weekly collection is used to pay for priests' salaries (such as they are), the building maintenance, heat, utilities, office supplies. There is a very strict budget.

 

Each week in the bulletin there is a finance report showing the previous weeks collection amount and the amount needed to meet the budget.

 

We have a savings account.

 

People give as they see fit and it works. Some times the parish gets perpetual gifts.

 

If there is a specific need a second collection will be asked.

 

There are fund raisers. Spaghetti dinners, church bazaar, etc.

 

The Knights or the CCW will buy specific things from their accounts. This past year the Knights bought a votive candle thingy. and a big screen TV.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Parrothead

[Colleen in NS]

My response to this question, which I'm pretty sure clarifies what these ladies (who belong to the same church I do) probably meant by this can be found in post number 90 on this thread. I'm not going to type it out again, but it's just the first paragraph in that post. Hope it helps to clarify. :)

 

I did read that post. I'm just hoping the two people I addressed will respond for themselves.

 

I can't wrap my head around the idea that God can't/won't provide for poor people who really and truly might not be able to tithe, without great hardship, to a church. Not everyone belongs to the Mormon church, either, or to any church that is able to do what yours does for its members. It's just not an ideal world we live in.

 

Voluntary donations not referred to as "tithes", and fundraising projects like church bazaars, bookstores, yard sales, spaghetti dinners, etc.

 

Thank you for explaining how it's done at your church.

 

I can only speak as a Catholic so others may have a different answer.

 

The weekly collection is used to pay for priests' salaries (such as they are), the building maintenance, heat, utilities, office supplies. There is a very strict budget.

 

Each week in the bulletin there is a finance report showing the previous weeks collection amount and the amount needed to meet the budget.

 

We have a savings account.

 

People give as they see fit and it works. Some times the parish gets perpetual gifts.

 

If there is a specific need a second collection will be asked.

 

There are fund raisers. Spaghetti dinners, church bazaar, etc.

 

The Knights or the CCW will buy specific things from their accounts. This past year the Knights bought a votive candle thingy. and a big screen TV.

 

And thank you, too.

[Heidi]

Why do you think He can't/cannot "bless you with what you need" or "pour out a blessing" on people who don't tithe (in the sense of this thread) - esp. the poor? Is He incapable of providing for the poor unless they tithe to a church?

 

 

 

Um, dumb question that I am too lazy to find an answer for elsewhere...where exactly do these churches get their funding from, if not asking for "tithes" from members?

 

Like Mammasheep said, she clarified what I was trying to say in post 90. Of course God blesses everyone, however He promises specific, individual blessings to those who tithe. Mamma sheep explained it so much clearer. Please read her post.

[Xuzi]

Why do you think He can't/cannot "bless you with what you need" or "pour out a blessing" on people who don't tithe (in the sense of this thread) - esp. the poor? Is He incapable of providing for the poor unless they tithe to a church?

 

 

 

I know I'm not those two posters, but as another LDS I'd like to put in my two cents that I personally think it was a poor word choice on those two fine ladies part. (no offence ladies ;) )

 

It's not that God CAN'T "pour out a blessing" on those that don't tithe, but He WON'T go back on His word. God means what He says. If He says that tithing will open the windows of heaven to you such that you "shall not have room to recieve it", then that is what will happen when you tithe (and I've seen this in my own life). He doesn't ONLY bless those that tithe, as we see elsewhere in scripture, of course, but "opening the windows of heaven" is only referenced (in my reading, and there's a LOT of scripture, so I might have missed it :p ) in regards to tithing.

[amey311]

It doesn't separate me from my God. God doesn't live in the church buildings. Worship can be anywhere.

 

True. I was speaking here of people who say they WANT to go to church services but feel they cannot because they are unable to contribute to the collection plate.

 

I had a friend who was really struggling with addiction and said she missed attending services so much, but didn't think her god wanted her in church while she was still "wrestling with the devil." I told her that I thought that was exactly the time he wanted her in church.

 

I completely understand the whole "god lives everywhere" thinking, and I agree that you don't have to be inside a building reciting prayers in unison to be worshipping.

[QueenCat]

May I piggyback a question onto this? I have the impression (which may not be accurate) that many donate their tithe directly to their church. Or does this tithe include donations to other community organizations?

 

Yes, we believe, based on the Bible, the tithe is giving to God, not to "ABC Church". We believe in giving to God, not to a specific church. Yes, our church needs money, and gets a portion of our giving (about 50%), but giving to the food bank, supporting Room in the Inn, Compassion International, etc IS giving back to God, and therefore, comes out of our offerings too. I don't use the word "tithe" because it's rarely exactly 10%.

[PeacefulChaos]

Is that legal?

With the taking out of the 10% of her paycheck, I am assuming it's something she was aware of ahead of time. We rent from the same place DH works, so our rent is taken out of his paycheck. It's really just the same thing.

 

:iagree::iagree: I've never experienced a church that demanded a tithe. I've never experienced a church where it was generally known who was giving what. That is just so sad to me and doesn't jive with true Christianity. Jesus does not reject those who don't bring their 10%

I see no reason whatsoever for ANYONE to be privy to what people give. Tithing or otherwise. We have ONE person who knows this, our recording secretary, and she gives us statements at the end of the year for tax purposes. No one else is aware, and she doesn't tell people, either. NO one has any knowledge of the percentage that is given by each member.

 

Wow, thank you all for sharing! I have a much better picture now. I wish that young woman could have talked to some of you today.

 

Your information has led me to another questions though. Suppose a person considers themselves a Christian but doesn't associate themselves with a particular denomination nor do they attend church. Instead they worship in their home and pretty much keep their faith between them and God. They don't tithe to a church, but try to be generous to the community with what they have..where do they fit in? I think this is geared more toward those that feel a 10% tithe is necessary...I'm not trying to start a stink, I like to try to understand other points of view.

I don't agree with people 'worshipping in their home' in the form of them just being at home and having their own little 'church' with their family. While God is everywhere, and worship can take place anywhere, a church is not just about Sunday morning services. It's about being together with like believers in a community. So I have to say that I don't like any idea that takes people out of that - not that I find it 'wrong', per se, just that I feel they are shortchanging themselves and their families if they never go outside the home for any sort of religious instruction or fellowship with other believers. In the case that they do that, I would say they should just give away their 10% to whatever cause they deem worthwhile.

 

Would it surprise you to know that churches that do not require tithing have heated buildings, curriculum, copy machines, telephone services, internet, food pantries, etc?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a question for all of you (not specifically the LDS, but anyone) who do the 10%. Do you ever give more? Do you volunteer time and talent along with your 10%?

1. No, it wouldn't surprise me.

2. Of course. 10% is just the base amount. We give more when we feel led. We should definitely volunteer time and talent (and my family does). I think to 'just pay our tithes' with no interest to help the church in any other way would be wrong. A terrible attitude.

 

May I piggyback a question onto this? I have the impression (which may not be accurate) that many donate their tithe directly to their church. Or does this tithe include donations to other community organizations?

10% to the church - but really, it's giving to God. Anything donated elsewhere is above and beyond the 10%.

Why do you think He can't/cannot "bless you with what you need" or "pour out a blessing" on people who don't tithe (in the sense of this thread) - esp. the poor? Is He incapable of providing for the poor unless they tithe to a church?

 

 

 

Um, dumb question that I am too lazy to find an answer for elsewhere...where exactly do these churches get their funding from, if not asking for "tithes" from members?

I was actually curious about this as well. Just as to where they got the money from.

My response to this question, which I'm pretty sure clarifies what these ladies (who belong to the same church I do) probably meant by this can be found in post number 90 on this thread. I'm not going to type it out again, but it's just the first paragraph in that post. Hope it helps to clarify. :)

 

 

 

Voluntary donations not referred to as "tithes", and fundraising projects like church bazaars, bookstores, yard sales, spaghetti dinners, etc.

Oh. So really, its all the same thing. ?? I don't see any difference. Either you are voluntarily paying tithes or you are voluntarily supporting a bunch of fund raisers. Which most people don't really like, anyway. Our church only does fundraisers for specific things - missions trips, fine arts department funds, etc. Not just 'for the church' in general. People around here hate fund raisers - half the time, they would just rather give you the money. :)

Of course, I'm also not from a church that is heavy on giving tithes. They encourage it, of course, but it's not super strict or anything like that. Members can be members if they don't tithe, etc. It's really no one's business but the individual's - well, and God's. ;)

[QueenCat]

I don't consider any church that checks on whether people are tithing or giving enough to be on the right side of Christianity. It should be between the giver and God and really know human other than the giver should be figuring out what percentage one is giving.

 

:iagree:Well said.

[QueenCat]

Um, dumb question that I am too lazy to find an answer for elsewhere...where exactly do these churches get their funding from, if not asking for "tithes" from members?

 

People are giving, just not a "tithe". They're giving what they are led to give to the church itself.

[annandatje]

What do you do if you can't afford to tithe? I mean if you literally live paycheck to paycheck and you do have some extra money but you typically use it for things for your dc like clothing, homeschooling supplies and the occasional treat (a movie, a trip to the zoo, etc.)

 

I'm not asking for myself...I was chatting with a young mom the other day in the LOOOOOONG line at Walmart and it turns out that she started homeschooling this year. I live in the south so of coarse one of the first questions she asked is where we attend church. I responded that we don't and she said she wanted to but couldn't afford it.:confused:

 

I asked her what she meant and she said because of what I mentioned above that they couldn't afford the tithing. I didn't ask her anymore about what church it was as it was my turn to check out.

 

I find it hard to believe that a church wouldn't allow membership because someone couldn't afford the tithing. Enlighten me.

 

Maybe the church did not steadfastly require it, but the expectation may have been there. That expectation may have been internal, external, or both. As fervently as some denominations proselytize, I do find it difficult to comprehend that lack of tithing would exclude church attendance. However, as I already stated, ftt (failure to tithe) may be guilt-evoking on the young mother's part.

[....]

Are you referring to the stoning of Stephen? He was stoned by the Jewish leadership for (in their eyes) blasphemy (Jesus was also charged with blasphemy by the Jewish leadership); Stephen was not stoned by the church.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :lol:

[Heidi]

I can't wrap my head around the idea that God can't/won't provide for poor people who really and truly might not be able to tithe, without great hardship, to a church. Not everyone belongs to the Mormon church, either, or to any church that is able to do what yours does for its members. It's just not an ideal world we live in.

 

Poor wording on my part. Sorry. That is not what I meant nor what lds believe.

 

One moment and i'll quote mamma sheep.

 

The reason the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints can do what it does for its members is because we have an unpaid clergy and we tithe as if it were a commandment, because we believe it IS a commandment, and that we will be extra blessed if we keep the commandments.

 

I do not know what is the right answer for those that attend a different denomination and are poor and cannot afford to pay tithing; I cannot speak for them. However, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints a family like that could still pay 10% and rest assured they will have food on their table bc of the church's welfare system.

 

Maybe that person might be curious to learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints... ?

Edited December 15, 2011 by hmsmith

[gardenmom5]

I had a friend who was really struggling with addiction and said she missed attending services so much, but didn't think her god wanted her in church while she was still "wrestling with the devil." I told her that I thought that was exactly the time he wanted her in church.

.

 

:iagree: I believe it was Jesus himself who said the whole don't need a physician, but they that are sick. (re: struggling) (I'm too lazy to go look it up.)

 

Is it that she feels God would censure her for coming, or that members of the congregation would look down on her for not being "perfect"?

[Mama2Many4]

That is not what we said or meant :confused: That is not what lds believe.

 

One moment and i'll quote mamma sheep.

 

The reason the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints can do what it does for its members is because we have an unpaid clergy and we tithe as if it were a commandment, because we believe it IS a commandment, and that we will be extra blessed if we keep the commandments.

 

I do not know what is the right answer for those that attend a different denomination and are poor and cannot afford to pay tithing; I cannot speak for them. However, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints a family like that could still pay 10% and rest assured they will have food on their table bc of the church's welfare system.

 

Maybe that person might be curious to learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints... ?

 

 

I have an honest question. Don't Mormons believe that Jesus is a "lesser" God? Why is your church named after him if you don't consider him an equal? Why don't you just name it The Church of Godhead or something? Don't you believe that by doing all these things you will be "Gods" of your own universe someday and have millions of kids?

 

I'm genuinely curious about this, because Jesus is in the name of your church.